Flex Weapons?

[SangoProduction]

So, assume you've got a weapon that consists mostly of metal. And you can turn it into any other mostly metal weapon of the same size.

What are going to be your go-to forms for it?

Any notable "just in case" situational forms you would keep in mind?

[inuyasha]

Purely for thematic reasons, I'd probably make it be a "Spear of many sizes" sort of thing. Throwing spear, melee spear, and reach weapon spear.

[Jay R]

Well, "mostly metal" excludes spears and most other polearms.

I would probably use it as a longsword if I have another good weapon and two-weapon fighting skills, and a greatsword otherwise. I would only use other shapes for specific purposes (a bludgeoning weapon against skeletons, for instance).

[Twurps]

We can argue if shaft weapons need to be mainly wood. A steel shaft seems very well possible as well.
Just so I don't have to argue that though: Spiked chain for reach, trip, etc. After that one only needs the 'other' damage types, so a greatsword and some kind of hammer/mace.

IF I can swap around weapon properties too, and IF changing takes a very short time: maybe something that can be thrown, with the returning property.

[SangoProduction]

Well, "mostly metal" excludes spears and most other polearms.

I would probably use it as a longsword if I have another good weapon and two-weapon fighting skills, and a greatsword otherwise. I would only use other shapes for specific purposes (a bludgeoning weapon against skeletons, for instance).

I mean, you can make polearms out of metal. They just weren't because metal wasn't anywhere near as plentiful and cheap as wood.
Even bows can be made out of metal, even before getting to modern bows. Spring steel is pretty springy. Maybe not quite as powerful or durable as wood (ironically). But still possible.


We can argue if shaft weapons need to be mainly wood. A steel shaft seems very well possible as well.
Just so I don't have to argue that though: Spiked chain for reach, trip, etc. After that one only needs the 'other' damage types, so a greatsword and some kind of hammer/mace.

IF I can swap around weapon properties too, and IF changing takes a very short time: maybe something that can be thrown, with the returning property.
Swap magical properties? No.
Time to switch: standard action.

[Jervis]

So, assume you've got a weapon that consists mostly of metal. And you can turn it into any other mostly metal weapon of the same size.

What are going to be your go-to forms for it?

Any notable "just in case" situational forms you would keep in mind?

This item actually exists in DotUD, it’s 18k I think but updated to 3.5 it would be a lot cheaper because the enhancements it was priced around were updated to be cheaper fixed price instead of +1 enhancements. Regardless it can become any weapon of any size and material you want as an action, though the updated version might be limited to the materials that overcome some sort of DR.

That aside, Executioner’s Mace. It deals 2d6 damage of either bludgeoning + slashing or bludgeoning + piercing. Material would be Alchemical Gold if it also has that enhancement that makes you proficient or Bloodglass for a free +1 damage if it isn’t, Adamantine for Dr and or hardness, redsteel to flex, or if it’s allowed Oearthblood for a free luck bonus to everything if that’s allowed (though that’s a bit questionable since that metal is so much more expensive than everything else).

[AnonJr]

Warhammers and Mauls are my usual go-to, just because I love using them even if they aren't the most mathematically optimal weapon. Having the ability to shape it into a Battleaxe or Greataxe when needed would be a nice trick since sometimes you need to cut something and a hammer just isn't going to ... cut it.

[Saintheart]

Warhammers and Mauls are my usual go-to, just because I love using them even if they aren't the most mathematically optimal weapon. Having the ability to shape it into a Battleaxe or Greataxe when needed would be a nice trick since sometimes you need to cut something and a hammer just isn't going to ... cut it.


They aren't too ... keen on puns around here, I've found.

[MornShine]

If you can also change the type of metal, Pandemonium Steel is always good for the start of a battle.

With a standard action, options are limited. Otherwise, an extra-long polearm to a short melee weapon for approaching foes.

[arkangel111]

There is that exploit where you get a transformative sizing +1 shuriken for 1/50th the cost of standard magic weapon. when theory crafting I usually try to add it in since it lets you grab other fun magic items without losing all of your WBL. Plus you can easily grab a +10 weapon much earlier in your career. I recommend adding returning to it just in case your DM tries to say that if you ever throw it you lose it since it may still technically be ammunition. either way with how cheap they are you should have at least 2 on hand if not 4-5 just to be safe. you could then dual wield scimitars, throw them as spears, swap it to a sword and shield, and then end the fight as an oversized greatsword or greathammer (paired with a gauntlet or armor spikes to free up that other hand) all in the same fight. A weapon like this would actually shine with a stock fighter since you could nab all of the feats and actually make use of them. I don't remember what the activation time is on it but it may even be possible to do all of that in the same round. I've always wanted to play a warforged with a set of these and have them as integrated weapons.

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

My favorite was an artifact that appeared in one of my campaigns called the stone sword of many choices, a magical stone that was crafted into a Greatsword that has the ability to transform into any "Sword" or what you could rule to be a sword, not to mention that you take no penalty for size and are automatically proficient with it. (We each had a similar weapon, one that can change into any other version of that item. Spear, mask, cloth, sword, and Ham-axe)

Top 3 forms were:

Arrow fired from a shortbow that transforms into a huge greatsword midair

Tiny tiny dagger (1 inch long) that was used to stab someone in a handshake (and impart it's debuff powers)

Medium sized dagger that was stabbed into an enemy and transformed into a huge greatsword, ripping a hole in them

[Jay R]

We can argue if shaft weapons need to be mainly wood. A steel shaft seems very well possible as well.


I mean, you can make polearms out of metal. They just weren't because metal wasn't anywhere near as plentiful and cheap as wood.

Maybe you folks are strong enough to wield an iron or steel longspear effectively; I'm certainly not.

The density of most hardwoods is in the 0.50-0.90 g/cm3 range. The density of iron or steel is around 7.8 g/cm3. That's about ten times heavier.

Unsurprisingly, most weapons in the middle ages (or any other period) are made the best way possible, given the technology of the time.

[Jervis]

Maybe you folks are strong enough to wield an iron or steel longspear effectively; I'm certainly not.

The density of most hardwoods is in the 0.50-0.90 g/cm3 range. The density of iron or steel is around 7.8 g/cm3. That's about ten times heavier.

Unsurprisingly, most weapons in the middle ages (or any other period) are made the best way possible, given the technology of the time.

Something something 37 strength Barbarian says lul

[Ramza00]

Maybe you folks are strong enough to wield an iron or steel longspear effectively; I'm certainly not.

The density of most hardwoods is in the 0.50-0.90 g/cm3 range. The density of iron or steel is around 7.8 g/cm3. That's about ten times heavier.

Unsurprisingly, most weapons in the middle ages (or any other period) are made the best way possible, given the technology of the time.


Something something 37 strength Barbarian says lul

Underlining what Jervis said. Oh it weighs 8 to 16 times more wood vs iron / steel

Well every 8 in strength more or less triples your carrying capacity (it is a weird formula where every +5 strength doubles your strength but not always) and since pole arms are 6 to 15 lbs, 8x or 16x the weight is still quite easy to wield if we started adding magic strength boosting like a strength belt like a giant belt, ant haul spell, mulebook cords, etc other strength and carrying capacity items.

Hard for an 18 strength character to carry with no magic (light load is 100 lbs or less), str 23 makes it 200 lbs or less, str 28 makes it 400 lbs or less for a light load. Easy for a DND character where the big pole arm is still heavy but there is no penalties materially but you should still add flavor descriptions how heavy the pole arm is.

———

But if we want it to be effortless 8x weight would be +15 higher strength, and 16x would be +20 higher strength. Still doable but you want magic to help.

[Akal Saris]

Basically, I want the following qualities in a flexible weapon:
- Reach (Exotic - Spiked chain / Martial - Glaive)
- High dmg 'normal mode' (Exotic: Mercurial greatsword from A&E / Martial: Greatsword)
- Alternatives for bludgeoning (Exotic: Lucern hammer or Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer / Martial: Heavy flail)
- Alternative for piercing (Unless I'm fighting a rakshasa, I don't think there's a need...)
- Alternative for grappling (Ex: Kukri / Martial: Dagger)
- Alternatives for general-purpose usage: A hatchet for chopping wood or slicing into a door, a warhammer for....hammering objects, etc.

However, changing a weapon as a standard action is super limiting for combat. Mostly I would just want it to be adamantine so I could use it as a hatchet/hammer when I'm not using it in the primary mode.

[AnonJr]

They aren't too ... keen on puns around here, I've found.

I didn't intend for it to be so ... blunt.

[Remuko]

Maybe you folks are strong enough to wield an iron or steel longspear effectively; I'm certainly not.

The density of most hardwoods is in the 0.50-0.90 g/cm3 range. The density of iron or steel is around 7.8 g/cm3. That's about ten times heavier.

Unsurprisingly, most weapons in the middle ages (or any other period) are made the best way possible, given the technology of the time.

yeah but a metal shaft doesnt need to be solid. it would be partially hollow. it would be easily wieldable even by a normal human.

[Twurps]

yeah but a metal shaft doesnt need to be solid. it would be partially hollow. it would be easily wieldable even by a normal human.

Agreed: It needs to be hollow not only from a weight perspective, but also from a flexibility perspective. Otherwise: vibrations caused by impact would hurt your hand to the point you can't effectively hold/wield the weapon. The weight isn't that much of an issue at that point. From a historical perspective it's the crafting of hollow tubes that's much more cumbersome than 'just' taking a wooden shaft.

However: I was under the impression that we were talking D&D here. You know: the world where dragons breathe fire, where people can transport instantaneously around the globe and beyond. We're talking about a weapon that changes form and then complain that a standard action is pretty long. Obviously the laws of physics don't apply here. Just let the martials have their nice things.

[Jay R]

However: I was under the impression that we were talking D&D here. You know: the world where dragons breathe fire, where people can transport instantaneously around the globe and beyond. We're talking about a weapon that changes form and then complain that a standard action is pretty long. Obviously the laws of physics don't apply here. Just let the martials have their nice things.

I'm not sure why a magic item that can transform into into mostly metal weapon, but can't transform into a mostly wood weapon, doesn't count as a "nice thing".

The rule we were given was "you can turn it into any other mostly metal weapon of the same size." That's a cool item, and my Ranger would be glad to have it. And he would use it as a longsword, greatsword, and other interesting shapes. He would not try to turn it into a longspear, because a longspear is not a "mostly metal weapon".

Yes, you could make a spear unlike any other spear ever made, entirely out of metal, in order to subvert the clear meaning of the word. But why? It's already an exciting weapon even if you don't try to avoid its actual definition.

You could also make a piano entirely out of metal, and somebody with a high enough strength could bash people with it. That does not make a piano a "mostly metal weapon", and If I am the DM, the cool magic item cannot become an all-metal piano, or an all-metal spear.

It seems to me that the phrase "mostly metal weapon" has a clear meaning, and in my game, I would enforce that meaning. If your DM feels differently, that's fine. Have a great game.

Either way, martials would enjoy having the nice thing

[Wildstag]

Purely for thematic reasons, I'd probably make it be a "Spear of many sizes" sort of thing. Throwing spear, melee spear, and reach weapon spear.

The OP weapon quality is morphing, a +1 bonus, but there's also a specific quality for this kinda idea: the changeling weapon, a +2000 gp quality, and allows a swift action (command) to change from shortspear to spear to longspear and back again. You also get to change the haft and head to look as decorative or plain as you want.

It's a fun weapon quality for Kobold fighters, since the substitution levels give them joint Weapon Focus/etc. on Short/Long/Spears.

[Twurps]

I'm not sure why a magic item that can transform into into mostly metal weapon, but can't transform into a mostly wood weapon, doesn't count as a "nice thing".

The rule we were given was "you can turn it into any other mostly metal weapon of the same size." That's a cool item, and my Ranger would be glad to have it. And he would use it as a longsword, greatsword, and other interesting shapes. He would not try to turn it into a longspear, because a longspear is not a "mostly metal weapon".

Yes, you could make a spear unlike any other spear ever made, entirely out of metal, in order to subvert the clear meaning of the word. But why? It's already an exciting weapon even if you don't try to avoid its actual definition.

You could also make a piano entirely out of metal, and somebody with a high enough strength could bash people with it. That does not make a piano a "mostly metal weapon", and If I am the DM, the cool magic item cannot become an all-metal piano, or an all-metal spear.

It seems to me that the phrase "mostly metal weapon" has a clear meaning, and in my game, I would enforce that meaning. If your DM feels differently, that's fine. Have a great game.

Either way, martials would enjoy having the nice thing

I agree that a weapon changing form is definately a 'nice thing' regardless of whether spears are included. You might also have noted I didn't have a 'spear' in my own list of forms, because I didn't need it. That's not what my 'nice things' comment was about. It was about 'noping' things based on the fact that real world phyisics wouldn't allow it, in this case: A metal shaft would be too heavy. Martials already have a difficult time if RAW is the only limiting factor. And yet for some reason we feel that 'real world physics' should be added as a limitation to martials, but not as a limitation to casters. Not only does that widen the power gap further, it actually works counter productive in making a credible world (For me personally, YYMMV). I can immerse myself into a magical world of dragons and planar travel perfectly well, but not so much if I have to sync it with real world physics.

So let the spears in your D&D world be made out of wood or metal (or both or neither). Whatever you like. I just hope you're not limiting yourself needlessly by real world physics, if only for your own enjoyment.

[Troacctid]

The locking garotte is a pretty nasty weapon that's situationally very good but difficult to use otherwise. That would probably be my top candidate, alongside the noncombat options of sledgehammer, crowbar, and portable ram.

[Remuko]

I'm not sure why a magic item that can transform into into mostly metal weapon, but can't transform into a mostly wood weapon, doesn't count as a "nice thing".

The rule we were given was "you can turn it into any other mostly metal weapon of the same size." That's a cool item, and my Ranger would be glad to have it. And he would use it as a longsword, greatsword, and other interesting shapes. He would not try to turn it into a longspear, because a longspear is not a "mostly metal weapon".

Yes, you could make a spear unlike any other spear ever made, entirely out of metal, in order to subvert the clear meaning of the word. But why? It's already an exciting weapon even if you don't try to avoid its actual definition.

You could also make a piano entirely out of metal, and somebody with a high enough strength could bash people with it. That does not make a piano a "mostly metal weapon", and If I am the DM, the cool magic item cannot become an all-metal piano, or an all-metal spear.

It seems to me that the phrase "mostly metal weapon" has a clear meaning, and in my game, I would enforce that meaning. If your DM feels differently, that's fine. Have a great game.

Either way, martials would enjoy having the nice thing

it being able to turn into any other mostly metal weapon can also very intuitively (imo) be read to mean that if it turns into a weapon that weapon is mostly metal. like a steel quarterstaff, or an iron spear. just whatever it turns into is mostly metal.

[Troacctid]

Wait, does it have to be a metal weapon, or does it have to be a steel weapon? Because if it can be other types of metal, it's a lot more useful! Adamantine (or starmetal), silver, and cold iron (or Abyssal bloodiron) are obviously useful, as are the other DR-bypassers byeshk and flametouched iron, but there's also all sorts of weird alchemical metals from Magic of Faerun that do extra damage but normally cost a lot of gold, and any of those would be pretty great.

[Ramza00]

However: I was under the impression that we were talking D&D here. You know: the world where dragons breathe fire, where people can transport instantaneously around the globe and beyond. We're talking about a weapon that changes form and then complain that a standard action is pretty long. Obviously the laws of physics don't apply here. Just let the martials have their nice things.

Agreed let Martials have nice things, especially since there is a Psionic power “call item” which allow you to hold an item (key word here, hold) and for 1 PP have access to any 10 GP item, 3 PP 100 GP item, and 5 PP any 1000 GP Item with some exceptions.

A custom magic item that is all day for Call Item (like a lantern ring) would be 3*5*2000*1.5 for the ability to substitute any 1000 gp or less item with some exceptions. Since it is 45k I would actually get rid of the exceptions. Crafting a wand / Dorje would be 3*5*750=11250.