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SangoProduction
2022-04-18, 09:20 PM
Preamble: Incanter was far from a priority to review. There are honestly not a lot of options you need to truly "consider," because it's basically a class you dip into for a bonus caster level in a given sphere. However, Expanded Options 3 released to the wiki, and added some new options. It would be a shame if I didn't go over it because of that prejudice.

So this review (of the specializations) is going to be slightly different. Just slightly. We are looking for potential options that keep you coming back to the class, rather than dipping out as soon as you get your caster level. As opposed to simply rating it as far as whether or not you would care to trade it out.

Post-Review Analysis: Honestly, I've still not settled my thoughts on it. I still don't really get why there's such a strange compulsion to just get in and get out as fast as possible. The class feature are objectively good. Is it just that it's generic. Sort of like a fighter compared to a barbarian?
Even most of its Sphere-Specialization-linked abilities are pretty good.

(1) Superb: You always want this if it's relevant to you. And it probably is.
(1.5) Really Good: Particularly useful bits of kit, but aren't quite must-haves. (Kept it decimal, because spreading out Good so far from Superb felt unrepresentative. But I needed a step between)
(2) Good: These make useful additions to the right builds. Among your first picks.
(3) Meh: Doesn't hurt to have. Wouldn't go out of your way for it.

(4) No: It technically has a use, but the cost to take simply doesn't outweigh the benefit.
(5) Never: There’s no non-trivial reason to pick it up, from its mechanics.
(6+) Harmful: Taking/using this is actively detrimental to your character.

<Angle brackets> around a rating indicates situational usefulness, and how good it is in that favorable situation.
[Square brackets] indicate a reliance on the group (players or DM) or campaign you’re playing in, and how well it does in those select groups.

Special Ratings:
(C) Cheese: A talent so broken that it will be instantly banned if you use it as you could.
(?) Unrated: I choose not to rate it. Often because it is just so far out of my wheelhouse, or it’s far too ambiguous.
(F) Flavor: This indicates that the main draw to the talent is going to be its inherent fluff or flavor, rather than raw power or utility.
(D) D***bag: Used for when your character wants to be a D***bag.

Casting (1): Full caster. Amazing, as always.

Bonus Feat (1.5): Casting feats. Great. Probably going to trade them out for specializations. The trade being well worth it, typically, as the specializations can't be replicated with feats. But if you don't trade it out, this alone slightly more than doubles the feats your character has access to (before race).

Bonus talent (1): Gain an extra talent every odd level. Also amazing. One feat is worth one talent. That said, any caster has access to talents. Sure, not as many, but they do tend to have access to them. An incanter does not have access to other classes' features. Except as noted in specialization. But that's the point of the incanter. (Outside of the caster level)

Level 2: If you trade out the feats for Sphere specialization, then for level 2, you gain... 1 caster level, and 1 talent. And nothing else. Any other full caster can do that, and bring in class features. Thus why the incanter was reworked so you can at most gain 3 of your 5 specialization points in one level. The rest can be gained at level 2.
And from there, level 3 is going to grant you a bonus talent, so just one more level couldn't hurt... could it?

OK, all-in-all, those class features look pretty great. Going to be a hard sell to trade those for an archetype. But as mentioned in the preamble, they don't actually keep people (including myself) from going to another class after they get their specializations. And honestly.... I'm not sure how they can be both incredible, but unattractive. It could be that it's just not flashy. Or the fact that for a given character idea, there are only so many talents you need, and said ideas are acceptably usable without rushing for more talents.
So let's look at those and see if they have potential as class features to keep us coming back.

Omnimental Familiar (2): Unlike the other familiar types, this gives a reason to go at least to level 6: And that's to effectively have 2 lines of sight for your destruction sphere. Twin Soul Elementalist kind of has this theme already, but this is flexibility-focused, rather than power-focused. TSE still really only has 1 real line of sight - just it's that of the companion instead of you.
The problem? It doesn't say which size of omnimental you get. You'll need to work it out with the DM. Which tends to make this a non-starter. But assuming you get the weakest one, it's a neat little flying source of bonus damage that doesn't cost you an action. But it quickly becomes a liability thanks to its HP, barring yet more DM intervention.

Familiar / Fey Servant (3): Now, I almost always pick the Familiar (which is why it's rated even this highly). Yes. It is an incredible, cheap ability. Like +4 to initiative for having a bunny companion! In addition to having a bunny companion! But level 1 is basically the peak of the power it grants. This doesn't really provide motivation to keep taking levels of incanter.

Admixture Adept (3): Basically +1/2 level as extra spell points, but exclusively for Admixture. It's better than going into Elementalist for that archetype, due to not locking you into low casting for the rest of your spheres. But that's hardly high praise. Especially when Hedgewitch can give 2+1/2 level as raw spell points. But that costs a caster level. Also spell points are... not the most restrictive resource. But it can make up for not taking drawbacks.

Channel Energy (3): Strictly speaking, this is superior in almost every way to a Cleric using Channel Energy. But Channel Energy is kind of just that tack-on ability that the full caster got in Pathfinder. Now, there are cool things you can do with Channel Energy in Spheres, with some of the new feats. It does have potential. But it's hardly an intriguing draw.

Cleric Domains (5): OK, maybe I'm a bit harsh here, but I've literally never seen a single cleric domain where I was like "Yeah! I really want that!" And I've had the misfortune of being a base PF Cleric more than a few times (and even had the task of picking one for the various incanters I've made. I eventually just said "screw it" and left the point open. They are all just incredibly boring / limited tacked-on effects. (From what I've seen. Feel free to argue about how I'm wrong and bad for this opinion below.)

Lay on Hands (5): For the same cost as Channel Energy, you gain a single-target heal, with uses/day based on 1/2 level, rather than 3. OK, fine, that's more of a reason to increase level. But man, this makes Channel Energy look good. Paladins at least have the hit points to be on the frontlines, and like the swift action self-heal. Incanters... not so much. Unless ... Yeah, OK, there are actually plenty of beef-ifying spells in Spheres. Particularly in Nature sphere. Some in Alteration and Enhancement. But still, I don't like this.

Master of Mysteries (5): I love the idea of being a magical Blank. And it's got improvements every...5 levels. But it's only 2 specialization points. The problem? Up until level 20, it takes a standard action

Merciful Healer (6): Every 3 levels, gain... Oh. One mercy. One mercy. OK. And here I was, thinking I criminally underrated the Paladin. Nope. Never mind. That is rather worthless. Better than 3.5's Paladin. But man. Spend the bonus feats you save by not taking this on additional Restore X talents.

Sword Birth (6): The only other one to cost 3 points, and thus blocks Sphere Specialization.. And it gives you a knock off version of the Lingchi Warrior. Which is already a less than impressive archetype.

Sorcerer Bloodline (?): Too many bloodlines. None of them seemed particularly good to me. Let me know if you found any bloodline powers that are worth taking.


OK, so those have limited staying power. Are there any Sphere Specialization abilities that are worth sticking it out for?
Remember: Sphere Specialization grants a bonus talent, in addition to the +1 caster level, so the level 1 feat you lost for picking this specialization? Well, you didn't lose it. And instead simply gained +1 caster level with the sphere, and forced to spend the feat on the sphere... that you got a bonus with...
No other specialization returns what it costs. In the first level. Certainly makes the additional feats you give up, by taking more levels, feel much more like a cost, by relative measure. Maybe that's why taking 1 or 2 levels is so easy, but taking more is hard to justify. Hmm. I dunno.
Not rating capstones of level 20. Because it's all the levels between 2 and 20 that are the problem.

House Soul (1): Basically creates a super minion that scales very well with Incanter level, rather than corpse level. Which keeps even low-level corpses with interesting abilities not only viable but also usable. (Also, imagine a tiny undead rat with 20 HD. That's not a level 1 quest right there.) This would almost certainly be good enough to convince me to stay in the class.

Expedited Calling (1): Reduces the summon time to 1 hour from 8. Which is nice. Makes it something you can do daily, rather than only when you get a break.
But 1 spell point summons it in 1 minute, which means you've got a fresh one every single encounter (if so needed). And you can apply a template to it rather than just skeleton/zombie.


Rend Flesh (1): No motivation to get you past level 3, so a bit of an exception to the rating. But at level 3, you get a second bonus talent, and you reduce the spell cost of Twisted Shapeshift (the offensive alteration talent)... so long as you use only Blank Transformation. Which is honestly the most "fair" way to offensively transform someone. Turning them to a fish, before even adding traits to make them blind, is a little silly. And a thing that you will probably get away with once.

Disrupt Biology (1): Starting at level 8, once per day + 1/4 levels, deal 1/2 level as ability damage when using Twisted Shapeshift. Oh, and gain a bonus feat at level 8. A bonus feat I missed when I first looked at the book. Nice to have new offensive traits.


Lighteyes (1.5): +1/2 level to perception, just passively. And then again for invisible/incorporeal targets. In addition to the Light sphere bonuses to perception checks, you can be your team's scout, from way back there. Even better with Alteration sphere to be a flying creature. I've noticed "scout" kind of not really be a useful role in the past couple years. Even in the couple of times when a player attempts to make an asserted effort to scout ahead. I'm not sure what's changed. Might just have gotten a really strange streak of games. Could just be how Roll20 is filtering players and DMs.

Disappearance (1) Invisible condition for (level) rounds. As in actual invisibility, not Spheres invisibility. +40 to stealth while standing still. Truly, this is the scout specialization. But also no clause to lose invisibility on attack. You simply only get a few rounds a day.


Heat-Resistant (1.5): Gains (level) fire resistance. Which stacks with any other source of fire resistance. Fire is a remarkably common elemental damage type. Oh, and explicitly less affected by arid and hot weather, before even considering the silliness like weather damage not being explicitly fire or cold damage, and the like.

Blistering Aura (1): 30 ft aura, fort save, or enemies gain fire vulnerability, and reduces immunity down to fire resistance 40 (which is still effective immunity but... eh). 1 round / level. I'd reckon that you actually care more about this, when you're a destruction caster than if you are a nature caster. But that's the fun part. Incanter is a full caster with 1.5 times as many talents as normal casters from class progression. You can do that, and be both! Who doesn't want a free +50% damage multiplier to your 8d8 fire blast?
(And hey, there are actually some builds that really stack fire wielder, and get respectable, if much more highly invested damage.)


Battleshaping (1.5): Grants 1 trait for 1/2 lvl rounds per swift action. And it doesn't have to be from a talent you know. That's surprisingly respectable, if you have a tendency of already using shape shifting as an Incanter. It's 3 + CAM times / day, but so long as you aren't spamming these flexed traits, it's fine. Can be automatically resisted if unwilling, so not useful on the offense. As though you care. There are only like 2 useful offensive traits.

Change Shape (2): Free action, flex an entire alteration talent for a few rounds. Once per day + 1/6 levels. The limited use keeps it from being absolute top tier, and its long delay between additional uses makes it hard to inspire one to gain levels *for it,* but it's very useable.


Forewarned (1): Acts in surprise rounds, regardless of perception. But also gains 1/2 level to initiative. And there are initiative junkies out there. Would you spend 20 levels in a full caster class, to gain +10 initiative? Honestly? Probably. That seems like a plenty fine deal. And I'm not even one to often take Improved Initiative.

Foretell (2): As a free action, either grant +2 or -2, for friend or foe respectively to rolls within 30 ft radius. Only (level) rounds per day. But that's neat.


Vicious Magnetism (1, F): Assuming that you actually want to use Magnetize (which is a big assumption, given that the damage you do at CL 64 is the same you can do with Destruction sphere at CL 4 or CL 6, if using larger greatswords)... well, getting to affect attended/unwilling targets adds unique utility to the very underwhelming damage. Namely, with it being a Will Save to disarm / steal / pickpocket / unclip belts / etc. For a spell point. Which is disappointing for fun and games. But still has practical use. And you probably have plenty of spell points to burn on playing with the Paladin. Oh, and you also do CAM bonus damage. Which means more to you, because of how low the base damage is. Or it doesn't matter at all, because you don't use it for the damage.
I do find it funny how someone can just "will" magical magnets to stop working. "Tides come in and tides go out. You can't explain it."

Metal Infusion (1.5): Swift action, fort save, target counts as though mostly metal for (level) rounds, and suffers -2 to saves vs electricity. Considering you're a metal-mancer, making someone count as metal for no spell points, and only a swift action is pretty incredible. And the save penalty also applies to metal sphere stuff at level 8. Which is nice.

Ferrous Resilience (3): On concentrating on a metal sphere ability, and for 1 round thereafter, gain stalwart (which changes fort and will saves from partial to negate). That's fine.


Shift (1): Swift action, no AoO, teleport. 5 ft / 2 lvls. 3 + CAM times per day. Basically you *cannot* be locked down. Unless you are already in deep. Very deep. So deep that you might want to consider using those real teleports to get the heck out.
But your range extends quicker than most things' reach does. A lot quicker. Plus you have 5 ft step, which doesn't care about teleport.

Dimensional Lord (4): 30 ft radius. 1/day (+1/6 lvl). Attempt to counter spell a teleport in the area.
Not particularly large exclusion area considering we're talking about teleports here. Sorry. A singular teleport. Per day. Useful when it's useful. Such as to prevent some mage from escaping via teleportation.


Extended Illusions (1): Illusion sphere is incredibly expensive, spell point-wise. Having a scaling Lingering effect at no cost (assuming Committed Deception) might be a decent alternative to just soaking the cost of persisting it for 10 min/CL.

Bedeviling Aura (3): Meh. Emit a 30ft aura that halves move speed, disables AoOs, and flanks enemies. For level rounds / day. I mean. It's decent. It shuts down AoO fighters, with a no-save hard-no. It's definitely not bad by any stretch. But is it good? Depends on the GM I guess. Tends to let you, at the very least, cast while deep within that dragon's AoO radius. Preferably as a move action teleport.

Not to mention Illusion is one of the most talent-hungry spheres, making an Incanter focused on Illusion a really good idea.


Creator’s Focus (1.5): Honestly, 1/2 level rounds of persistence to your objects after concentration is probably...sufficient for most combat applications of Creation sphere. And if you keep taking levels with it, it can do well for many out of combat / travel-utility uses too.
Master of Creation (2): By level 8, you probably stopped caring about spell point costs. But still, it is nice to get to be much more liberal with your applications of extended creations, in addition to your extra rounds for your short term creations. No further improvements past 8th level, but it got you to 8th level. Possibly. Maybe. Probably not on its own.


Prescience (2): Gets to roll a d20 at the start of turn, and if so desired, use that in place of any other d20 roll he'd make within his next 2 turns. Up to 3 + CAM time / day. That's actually pretty good.

Tugging Strands (2): Force a reroll on anyone in LoS, once per day (+1/6 after 8th), as a non-action. That can be a game changer of an effect. But really limited uses. And I think Fate sphere actually has this ability.


Seize the Initiative (1.5): 3+CAM times / day, an ally may roll twice for initiative. Not reroll. Just roll twice, decided before throwing any dice. That's probably good enough to get yourself, and your priority teammate(s) advantage for most/all of the fights in a day.

Cooperative Defense (????): Once per day (+1/4 after 8), immediate action, allow allies within 30 ft to use your save rather than theirs. Each can make the decision on their own. Unknown as to the exact way that is intended for this to happen. Do you make a save, and then allow them to use it? Do you have to have made a save against the effect you're reacting to? Do you grant the full result, or just the die? It's surely not just letting them swap out their bonus. There's no mention of the bonus at all.


Earthen Guard (4): Reduces non-teleport forced movement by 5 feet, + 5 / 10 levels. Each foot of reduction is basically equivalent to +1 CMD. So, I am really not particularly impressed. But it applies even to non-teleport spells. So it's better than just CMD.

Mineral Barrier (2): Better progression than Armorist's summoned equipment. Slightly worst progression than their bound equipment. And that's kinda their whole schtick (excluding the weapons deal), and they give up half their caster levels for the privilege. This lasts for an hour / caster level for 1 spell point. That's impressive. Not generally much reason to flex armor. But you are given plenty of opportunity to.

Calcifying Aura (1.5): 30 ft aura. Enemies in the area must make a fort save of take 1d3 dex damage, and -4 to hit AoOs. Each round. For (level) rounds / day. A lot of things have low Dex, making it good for stat killing.


Summoner’s Charm (3): Minions persist an extra 1/2 level rounds. Neat. Nothing incredible. But neat. Going to take several levels before its even desirable to use in this way

Aura of Banishment [1.5]: Free action, for up to (level) rounds per day, emit 30ft of banishment, which does what it says on the tin. Incredibly campaign-dependent. And Fate sphere had this covered from level 1. But I'll still give it a good rating for AoE and generous duration, that is still based on the levels.

Animal Companion (2): Having a free frontliner at full Druid progression is useful. But hardly *the* reason most go for Druid. Tends to be the assortment of powers and spells, in addition to... wait, isn't that what Incanter can do for... anyway.

Empower Companion (4): Apply Advanced template to the AC for a bit. Once per day. But they also go feral and only know how to Attack. Not particularly intriguing.


Power over Undead [1.5]: In an undead-heavy campaign? Might be neat. And its DC scales solely off of your incanter level, not caster. But... you're a Death sphere specialist. Death sphere has talents for dealing with the dead. This feels like rather intense overkill. Can let you exceed the normal control limit though.

Bolster (3): Some decent bonuses for an undead for CAM rounds , up to 3+CAM times / day.


Preempt Fumble (2): Reroll any missed/failed attack/save (within 60 ft) as an immediate action, 3+CAM/day. Useful.
Share Information (4): Limited telepathy. But if you're playing a radar dish, you no longer need to speak, and potentially give away you... oh, there's a Divination sphere talent that does the same thing but better? Eh... Oof.


Warding Winds (2): Adds 2 + 1/5 Caster Level to AC vs normal ranged attacks. (Not siege/magic). Not great. But reduces the concentration time for air-based geomancing / spirit abilities by 1 step, down to swift action. Which is neat.

Gale Stride (3): Fly for (level) minutes per day. But that duration can be refreshed for a spell point. Considering you can get flight at level 1 from Alteration sphere... I mean it's at least neat.


Fey Nature (2): Full BAB when using Fallen Fey natural weapons? Neat. Although they are subpar compared to Alteration, and they do not stack with Alteration. But still full BAB is full BAB, while being full caster. But why not just cast? Anyway, you also gets 1/2 level as DR/cold iron, while you've got a fey link, which means 1 spell point / CL hours. Which is actually fairly respectable. Again, Alteration does it better, but you don't lose the DR while Altered, and this DR can be thought of as basically passive.

Resist Fey Lures [4]: Advantage vs mind-affecting effects from fey. Makes sense. But wow that's narrow.


Lattices: Last for (level) minutes, or until used for a different purpose. You may only use one lattice at a time.

Level 3, Lattice Ward (3): Can use lattice when you form Barrier Ward (protection sphere). This lets you, as a standard action: dismiss and immediately replace elsewhere, or repair an existing "lattice barrier." No spell point to make the barrier last without concentration. Also can move 20 feet, either moving around, or pushing stuff in the way, with a CMB of 10 + class level + CAM. Explicitly no harm is done in the process of this movement.
Eh. I mean it's neat.

Level 6, Immediate Aegis (2): 60 foot range. Immediate action. Apply an aegis you can create around an ally. Also grants 50% critical resistance. And the bearer deals (level) bonus damage on natural attacks. Still pays normal cost for the aegis, but not for having it last.
That's honestly pretty good. I mean the immediate action alone makes it really useful. Gives you the chance to protect someone from an unexpected effect, even if you can only have one of these active at a time.

Level 10, Lattice Strike (5): Ranged touch attack. 60 ft. Deal 1d6 force dmg / 2 lvls. Ref save, or be entangled. New save each round. Not sure why you would do this instead of a free entangling destructive blast. Doesn't take up your lattice.

Level 15, Lattice Blades [2]: May have a ward become difficult terrain for enemies. Even in water and air. Generally not useful. Stops 5 ft steps. If you've got an AoO-mancer, much more useful all of the sudden.


Bolstering Essence (4): (Level) temp hp for 1 round. 3 + CAM times / day. I simply couldn't care.

Life Sight (2): Blindsight 10 ft. For 1 round / level. Decent.
All in addition to the fact that you don't really want to specialize in Life sphere, because it's such intense overkill. Life's really good. You don't need it to be better.


Intense Magic (4): +1/2 level to destructive blast damage. A free destructive blast is 1d6 / 2 levels. So 1.75 / level on average. This is between +1/3 to 1/4 the base scaling of the free destructive blast. Which is decent. It's not worthless. I just couldn't care about it. "Oh my! If I stay in this class one more level, I might get an extra point of damage!"

Penetrating Blast (3): Advantage on spell pen rolls... once per day... for specifically Destruction sphere.


Home in the Dark (4): Blindsense. In the dark. Improves per 5 levels. I mean, I definitely won't say it's bad. Just... I couldn't care. I'd just pick up a Divination sense.
Shadow Step (4): Meh, you get a knock off version of the Invidian's Shadow Leap, which is available to them at level 1, and has unlimited usage. But requires a level in Symbiat (Invidian), granted. Or could just be picked up as 1 talent, and costs only 1 SP / CL hours.


Fluid Motion (4): Adds CAM to swim and CMD vs forced movement and trip. Very unappealing. But makes sense

Grace of the Marid (?): Std Act and spell point to breathe and cast normally underwater, regardless of drawbacks. Lasts for up to 1 hour / incanter level. I mean... Either you're in an aquatic campaign, and probably built specifically for it, or you haven't. I don't really see where this plays a role.
(Oh, the wiki messed up the formatting. There's more.) You can also grant the effect to allies, for +1 spell point, splitting the duration. Take Grant Spirit talent to not cost an additional spell point. Taken twice, duration isn't split. OK, so now you can be the source of your allies' water breathing. Doesn't grant water movement. But like... water mastery potentially lets you push your group around at a middling pace. Still would prefer something like Aquatic Transformation. But perhaps it's an ocean-side campaign, with a slight chance of being swept up in the waves. And by default, Alteration requires touch. I dunno. I'm going to stop trying.

Hydrostatic Pressure (3): 30 ft aura for (level) rounds / day. Free action drag (either towards and away) against enemies, and allies take add 5 feet to their 5 foot steps. Not bad. Not exciting enough for me to spend 8 levels for it.


Enchanting Smile (3): +2 to the face skills Maybe - maybe - you'd take level 3 to unlock it. Definitely wouldn't care for more.

Aura of Despair (3): 30ft aura. Enemies take -2 to all rolls. Useful.

The problem? There is already a Mind-specialized class, and Eliciter is still 3/4 caster outside of its specialization. The incanter is not a specialized class. It's a generalist full caster that can get +1 CL to a sphere.
And Mind is kind of the type of sphere where you don't tend to just want to *just* generalize with it. I would only take 1 level of incanteer for a mind caster.


Deadly Flora (4): Lets you destroy an animated branch, in order to deal less damage than a free destructive blast. But in an area, which typically takes a spell point. But in a tiny area. Around an immobile bloody tree. Unless you have the March of the Treants advanced talent. But still, I'm not particularly seeing the immense use in it.
And 1 bleed damage / round (even with it stacking with itself) on Entangle doesn't seem immensely... impactful. Granted, it's got a radius of 20+ 2/lvl with the talents. So if that dealt massive damage per round, in addition to entangling, that would probably be pretty busted. Overall, I'm probably calling this pretty bad.

Nature’s Caretaker (5, F): You get to ignore vegetation (even magically manipulated ones), and your branches gain fast healing 1. No real mechanical impact, in 99.999% of cases. But it's nice to just heal up a tree. I guess. I wouldn't spend 8 levels on the ability.


Weatherworn (3): Treat weather as 1 step less severe. For himself. You do tend to have teammates. But it has scouting utility. Not as much as Light sphere or Alteration sphere, but still some. Oh, and it lets you kill civilians on a mass scale while sitting pretty in the volcanic wasteland you created.

Cyclone (4) 10 ft radius, 10 ft height/lvl. Negates ranged attacks through it. Moving through it takes fly or strength check DC 10+levels in casting classes. Not overly difficult. Especially for fliers, interestingly enough. Skills > attribute checks. Basically area denial. Better done by Creation sphere by this level.


Mana Master (1.5): MSB and MSD are really hard to boost. And this gets boosted every 4 levels. Oh, and bonus to Arcana and Spellcraft, I guess. It's not the most useful bonus... unless you were consistently trying to penetrate spell resistance, and/or counter spells. Kind of like what a Mana sphere user would be interested in. Very flavorful, and unique, and fitting of someone already interested in specializing in Mana sphere. Don't overspecialize though. Brutes can still kick your can.

Reinforce Magic (5): You can share your Mana Master with others... for a few spells per day. Which is perhaps the least useful thing I can really imagine. I mean, I guess you do kind of help someone penetrate spell resistance.


Resistance (5): Flex resistance equal to (level), chosen each day you rest and regain spell points. Lets ... oh, wait. You mean the Energy Resistance aegis lets you flex on the fly, for 10 + caster level, rather than 0+class level, and lasts for 1 hour / CL for just 1 spell point, and you can give it to other people as well, and you can place it multiple times to defend against multiple elements, and stack with your Energy Resistance ward? Oh, and this also doesn't stack with that? Yeesh. This isn't going to get much use. Just set it to Fire, and maybe you'll block a couple points before you put up your real protection, when you don't expect elemental damage. Makes you wonder why you aren't a Pyromancer.

Energy Absorption (4): Wow. You get 3 elemental damage-exclusive hit points per class level. OK, let's be fair... that's 3x Toughness. That's not garbage. It nearly negates a full caster Destructive blast against you, at the same CL as your class level. Once per day. They probably have at least 14 more in the chamber, before even using free blasts. But you blocked that one with barely any damage, even if you failed the save.


Physical Enhancement (4): NGL, the bonus makes sense, and it scales just a bit slower than natural stat progression. It's just a fairly insubstantial bonus, even if you get to flex it. Maybe if you could have given it to someone you Enhanced. I dunno.

Perfection Of Self (5): Enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 level for (level) rounds per day. So can be thought of as +1/4 level DC to all spells, for that time. Except... if you consider that you already probably are going to have your enhancement items already. This doesn't stack.


Blood, Telekinesis, Time and Bear: They are just bad picks. Not really interested in discussing them. You can though.


Well. I severely underestimated the number of abilities in that section. I am actually rather surprised. I tended to write them all off as basically tacked-on abilities, when the majority are actually rather decent.

Anyway, now for the archetypes.
Archetypes

Skills (1): Free class skills. Including perception. Yay

Servant of (Element) / Incanter specializations (?): Gain Nature sphere talent at level 1. And at level 2, gains +1 to CL in nature sphere. Slightly slower than standard but that's fine. Oh and gains a bonus talent every 8 levels. Neat...
But it gives up every single bonus magic talent, and 3 out of 5 specialization points. But only because there are not-explicitly-costed changes, and just wanted to make it clear what all was lost.
So, we're just going to assume that this is an entirely different full caster class, that gets to pick 2 points of specialization. That's mutually exclusive to Incanter. So you can't get that 1 level dip for... anyway, shut up, you have the Sphere Wizard if you want.

As such, I'm just going to leave it as is, and maybe review it in its own reivew.


Basically: Spends 3 specialization points for a couple of mechanically unrelated, but thematically tied abilities. Sort of like the monk. But with fewer abilities.

Many Lives [2]: Functional immortality, in all but the most lethal of campaigns. An ironically dead ability in low lethality campaigns.

Rynjin
2022-04-19, 06:55 PM
Incanter is mostly good for the insane number of talents it gets (same as Conscript), and I love playing them. But yeah, most of the basic specializations are meh for them, with the Sphere Specializations being the big deal options.

Mind, there ARE some good picks in Domains and Bloodlines. Phoenix Bloodline for example is an interesting option for someone who wants to be a fire blaster with some healing on the side. And, of course, Bloodlines open you up to grabbing stuff like Blood Havoc (+1 damage per die rolled on a spell) as alternate bloodline abilities.

Kitsuneymg
2022-04-19, 07:59 PM
Incanter is mostly good for the insane number of talents it gets (same as Conscript), and I love playing them. But yeah, most of the basic specializations are meh for them, with the Sphere Specializations being the big deal options.

Mind, there ARE some good picks in Domains and Bloodlines. Phoenix Bloodline for example is an interesting option for someone who wants to be a fire blaster with some healing on the side. And, of course, Bloodlines open you up to grabbing stuff like Blood Havoc (+1 damage per die rolled on a spell) as alternate bloodline abilities.

You don’t get the arcana for incanter bloodlines though, right?

Just dip sorcerer 1 and get all day free decent healing. Then dip wizard 1 for a specialization (+1 cl). Then witch 1 for moldable magics hex. Then arcanist 1 for a second flex talent, arcane pool, and an exploit. I like the one that raises pool bonus to 2. Then incanter 16 for the talents. Maybe fix unsworn shaman in there for a flexible feat that can be one of two crafting feats (caldron and fetish iirc).

Endarire
2022-04-19, 09:14 PM
Creator’s Focus seems like it’s explanation was truncated.

Rynjin
2022-04-19, 11:06 PM
You don’t get the arcana for incanter bloodlines though, right?


Ah, you're correct, NVM. It does still let you qualify for Blood Havoc though, at least.

SangoProduction
2022-04-19, 11:07 PM
Creator’s Focus seems like it’s explanation was truncated.

OK, fair enough. lol. Basically: a couple rounds of persisting is sufficient for most in-combat uses of creation sphere (which basically revolve around inconveniencing the enemy), while once you get sufficient enough levels of persistence, it basically can make most of the out of combat uses free as well. It's immediately useful (enough), and it gives a good reason to stick around.


Ah, you're correct, NVM. It does still let you qualify for Blood Havoc though, at least.

Blood havoc?


EDIT: Oh my gosh. OK. I was going to go change it... and somehow like half of what I wrote was deleted. I see what you meant by truncated. lol. I thought you just meant I didn't explain it well enough.

Rynjin
2022-04-19, 11:39 PM
Blood havoc?

There are a number of "generic Bloodline abilities" any Sorcerer can take in exchange for one of their existing Bloodline powers. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodline-mutations/)

The other two kind of suck, but Blood Havoc is very solid for all blasters, since it's just "+1 damage per die rolled for any school of magic you have Spell Focus in".

This is superior to the Destruction school specialization in every way (including that it can be multiplied by Empower), but is also cheaper and comes with a few other potentially good abilities on top.

SangoProduction
2022-04-20, 02:20 AM
There are a number of "generic Bloodline abilities" any Sorcerer can take in exchange for one of their existing Bloodline powers. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodline-mutations/)

The other two kind of suck, but Blood Havoc is very solid for all blasters, since it's just "+1 damage per die rolled for any school of magic you have Spell Focus in".

This is superior to the Destruction school specialization in every way (including that it can be multiplied by Empower), but is also cheaper and comes with a few other potentially good abilities on top.

hmm. OK. That's a good deal more interesting. And suddenly makes the Destruction specialization look all the more impotent by comparison, lol.

Kitsuneymg
2022-04-20, 08:36 PM
There are a number of "generic Bloodline abilities" any Sorcerer can take in exchange for one of their existing Bloodline powers. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodline-mutations/)

The other two kind of suck, but Blood Havoc is very solid for all blasters, since it's just "+1 damage per die rolled for any school of magic you have Spell Focus in".

This is superior to the Destruction school specialization in every way (including that it can be multiplied by Empower), but is also cheaper and comes with a few other potentially good abilities on top.

It does require the GM to allow it. Spell Focus doesn’t work with spheres. And sphere focus does not have a follow on feat (probably because sphere DCs easily outdo vancian DCs.) I would allow it, as I’m already adjudicating a new magic system, but there are some who would not.

If the old Dual Blooded sorcerer archetype is allowed, then that for orc and wild blooded red dragon, and blood havoc.

If your GM believes in general evocation feats working on destruction, then bloodrager to qualify for flumefire rage (and get rage to activate its effects), and then invoker witch 1 or 2(2 for mutable magics hex). Invoker witch reckoning add 1 insight damage per die to spell attacks.

With penetrating blast (advanced) , nature fire, and the feats Imbue With Nature (sp for SR no) and Primal Blast (add CAM to hit and damage instead of normal stat, and add even if you don’t add a stat!) you can make a fire witch that doesn’t have to worry about ER or SE.

At the end of the build, you do d8+4 per level, unless raging and willing to risk fatigue, in which case it’s +6. She ignoresfire resistance equal to CL, or 2xCL for a sp, and turns immunity into ER 40. For a sp, she ignores SR. She gets CAM to hit and damage, even with spells that don’t do damage. And she gets it to all prongs of a split or chained blast, and to AOE spells.

If you’ve got 2 more feats to invest, furious metamagic adds CL to damage and there’s a feat, favored metamagic, to negate the increased cast time. Or buy an apparatus. Burning spell would be another feat-or-rod pick. It does CL damage the round after a fire (or acid) spell. I guess you can do both, but empower is gonna look better probably.

Finally, blast salvo lets you get multiple CAM damage instances with a single attack, and lets you burn through mirror image quickly.

I built a “hilarious” fire mage that could alpha strike with 6 salvos at level 10 that cast at CL 18 (staff +3, specialization from wizard dip, spend arcane pool point for +2, and Draw Magic shenanigans with familiars and beast mastery animals) going to fatigued and burning a round of rage would hit for 20d8+138 +6*CAM, SR no, ER reduced by 36 and immunity counts as 40. Then a quicken (swift) and a gather energy quicken (move) to fire two more of them and pass out. The game can get a little stupid, but the GM literally asked for that. There was also a pre USoP jank way to get a non-typed blast to be [fire], and crafted blast would make all 1s and 2s count as 3s.

None of this requires incanter, in fact, it requires a lot of non-incanter classes. But incanter really helps get all the feats and talents you need/want. It’s my favorite fallback class in spheres.

EndlessKng
2022-04-21, 08:05 AM
I've never used Incanter, so I'm not SURE if this is the reason for it, but based on my read I think the reason isn't anything WRONG with Incanter - it's just that they use Incanter to fill in the gaps in their build. Essentially, they're only looking for one or two things and Incanter, as a "pure" caster without other features that may be useless to your build, can slot into an existing progression more easily. The generic-ness of it keeps people from using it when another thing focuses on what they want and does it better or at least more flavorfully; the Incanter then is used to smooth the build out.

There also may be a bit of showmanship in it. The people who POST their builds may be a self-selected group that is more likely to want to show off a bit with the build. A single-class build that's super solid is nice, sure, but it tends to be less showy than a build that uses odd interactions to do something unexpected (this is not universally the case, but it does makes sense that it's still more likely). As such, a very powerful but straightforward class won't be something that catches an optimizers' eye*. This isn't judgment on that kind of attitude, mind, and again is more a supposition than actual fact, but it does make some sense that it just doesn't pop up in posted builds for this reason.

*EDIT: for clarity, an optimizer wanting to show off in this way; in an actual play scenario, you'd probably seek to get what you want as fast as possible, where the Incanter works well.

SangoProduction
2022-04-21, 10:27 AM
I've never used Incanter, so I'm not SURE if this is the reason for it, but based on my read I think the reason isn't anything WRONG with Incanter - it's just that they use Incanter to fill in the gaps in their build. Essentially, they're only looking for one or two things and Incanter, as a "pure" caster without other features that may be useless to your build, can slot into an existing progression more easily. The generic-ness of it keeps people from using it when another thing focuses on what they want and does it better or at least more flavorfully; the Incanter then is used to smooth the build out.

There also may be a bit of showmanship in it. The people who POST their builds may be a self-selected group that is more likely to want to show off a bit with the build. A single-class build that's super solid is nice, sure, but it tends to be less showy than a build that uses odd interactions to do something unexpected (this is not universally the case, but it does makes sense that it's still more likely). As such, a very powerful but straightforward class won't be something that catches an optimizers' eye. This isn't judgment on that kind of attitude mind, and again is more a supposition than actual fact, but it does make some sense that it just doesn't pop up in posted builds for this reason.

Those seem like reasonable explanations, which I also agree with.

StSword
2022-04-21, 12:34 PM
Funny, I always thought the incanter had a purpose to be the spherecaster equivalent of the wizard.

SoP seems to be to be built to be rather agnostic about how much of the standard "vancian" casters can be included in a SoP game.

If one wants to use both in a game, fine, if one only wants to use both sop classes and SoP archetypes of the standard classes in a game, fine, if one wants to only use the SoP classes as magic users in a game, that's fine too.

So it seemed to me that incanter's "can learn two magic talents a level" was to appeal to the same people the wizard's "learn two spells per level automatically" feature.

AsuraKyoko
2022-04-21, 01:26 PM
I'm actually playing a single-classed Incanter in a campaign, and I'm not using any of the specializations. The bonus feats are just too useful for what I want to do, which is more or less a generalist with some minor focuses on Weather and ice-based stuff. I'm considering classing out into something else soon-ish, as I've gotten to a good place with regards to breadth of talents, and might want to consider picking up some actual class features, but I'm not sure what to actually go into. I want to remain a full caster, but I'm not sure what, exactly, I want beyond that. My current top pick is Arcanist, for the sweet, sweet flex talents. Alternatively, I might talk to my GM about the Archwizard rrerequisite reduction, since the campaign isn't going to epic levels.

Rynjin
2022-04-21, 06:06 PM
*EDIT: for clarity, an optimizer wanting to show off in this way; in an actual play scenario, you'd probably seek to get what you want as fast as possible, where the Incanter works well.

Exactly. This is why I primarily play Incanter/Conscript in Spheres games, at least for a while.

The main thing in Spheres is, well, Spheres. And the Talents in them. That is where like 80% of your class' power is coming from anyway. So you want as many as possible, as fast as possible. Other class features are supplementary to that.

SangoProduction
2022-04-21, 10:39 PM
Exactly. This is why I primarily play Incanter/Conscript in Spheres games, at least for a while.

The main thing in Spheres is, well, Spheres. And the Talents in them. That is where like 80% of your class' power is coming from anyway. So you want as many as possible, as fast as possible. Other class features are supplementary to that.

Have to say, I mostly agree.