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strangebloke
2022-04-18, 09:51 PM
I frequently see people react to statements like "6-8 encounters per long rest" with disbelief. "How can you do so much combat, doesn't it get tedious?" Not at all. Combat should be fun, quick, and entertaining, and shouldn't have to use up too much time on the part of the DM. I'm here to share how this is accomplished at my table. This isn't to say that this is the only way to do things, or the best, but as a testimonial of how well this functions for my players, consider the last long rest period my players went through (they're 10th level)

100 orcs with 3 veteran commanders
15 hobgoblins on giant eagles
2 stone giants, 10 shielded war wagons (with 30 heavy crossbowmen in full cover)
2 rocs
35 goblin commandoes armed with explosives and gunpowder
1 cloud giant, 1 roc, 5 hobgoblins on giant eagles

...And they're not yet done! They've still got to fight the boss! Now, this wasn't all done in one session, but in total this took about 4 hours of combat.

But here are the tips

Track damage, not health. If you start by tracking health, you'll need to have a large number written for every enemy in the encounter. When you're working with 30+ enemies, that's a nonstarter. Counting up is easier, since you only have to track damaged monsters, and realistically there will only ever be a few of those, since PCs know to focus fire and eliminate enemies.
Round to 5s for health. It's very rare for an attack at this level to deal less than five damage, and keeping track of small numbers is far easier than keeping track of big ones. I did the math awhile back, but between one thing and another this rarely changes the number of attacks it takes to bring down a big monster. Still, this is a bit 'dishonest' for some people's tastes, and admittedly my players don't know I do this.
Use 1 initiative count for each group of enemies. This allows you to handle a group of say 100 orcs as a batch. What you then do is (in a manner that will be familiar to tabletop strategy game players) declare actions. Five goblins attack him, five go to the bombs, 15 attack you. Once you've declared actions, they all roll at once, and dice cover the table. This is far easier than running one hit after another.
Prep tactics. In DND, most of the time isn't taken up by rolling dice or bookkeeping, its taken by decision-making. So make the decisions for yourself ahead of time. For the goblins I had "some take bombs and hide in the brush by the pass," others try to hold the line, rest try to active bomb-lobber. For the orcs I had "if the veterans are killed the discipline breaks and orcs start fleeing." Having this stuff written ahead of time allows you to save time in combat, because you're following a 'script'. You probably need to establish tactics for each large group of enemies.
Set Terrain: This is probably the most undervalued aspect of encounter design. Something as simple as a 10 foot cliff can really alter how the battle plays out, and can create a tactically interesting and memorable experience. It doesn't make combat itself faster, but imo it does make planning faster, since it establishes something basic to build your encounter around.
Use online resources. Whatever form this takes for you, having tabs open for each spell and monster is a huge time saver over the alternatives. Perhaps a tabbed book can work as well, and in the past I've used both, but


What do you use?

Hytheter
2022-04-18, 11:22 PM
Track damage, not health. If you start by tracking health, you'll need to have a large number written for every enemy in the encounter. When you're working with 30+ enemies, that's a nonstarter. Counting up is easier, since you only have to track damaged monsters, and realistically there will only ever be a few of those, since PCs know to focus fire and eliminate enemies

Addition is also easier than subtraction as a general rule. Definitely my preferred way of tracking HP.


Round to 5s for health. It's very rare for an attack at this level to deal less than five damage, and keeping track of small numbers is far easier than keeping track of big ones. I did the math awhile back, but between one thing and another this rarely changes the number of attacks it takes to bring down a big monster. Still, this is a bit 'dishonest' for some people's tastes, and admittedly my players don't know I do this.

This I haven't done but I have been meaning to try it out, though with even more aggressive (and easier) rounding, multiples of ten.


Use 1 initiative count for each group of enemies. This allows you to handle a group of say 100 orcs as a batch. What you then do is (in a manner that will be familiar to tabletop strategy game players) declare actions. Five goblins attack him, five go to the bombs, 15 attack you. Once you've declared actions, they all roll at once, and dice cover the table. This is far easier than running one hit after another.


This is actually RAW. Sometimes the designers know what they're doing. :P


Prep tactics. In DND, most of the time isn't taken up by rolling dice or bookkeeping, its taken by decision-making. So make the decisions for yourself ahead of time. For the goblins I had "some take bombs and hide in the brush by the pass," others try to hold the line, rest try to active bomb-lobber. For the orcs I had "if the veterans are killed the discipline breaks and orcs start fleeing." Having this stuff written ahead of time allows you to save time in combat, because you're following a 'script'. You probably need to establish tactics for each large group of enemies.

I' do this to an extent but I definitely think it could serve to do it more actively.

Good insights all round!

Mellack
2022-04-18, 11:40 PM
I would like to state that "6-8 encounters per long rest" does not have to be 6-8 combats. Encounters are anything that may use resources, so infiltrating a court meeting, or bypassing a chasm can also count as encounters. Mix things up.

strangebloke
2022-04-18, 11:54 PM
I would like to state that "6-8 encounters per long rest" does not have to be 6-8 combats. Encounters are anything that may use resources, so infiltrating a court meeting, or bypassing a chasm can also count as encounters. Mix things up.

This is true! In the examples listed above, they ended up running away from two of these encounters (the storm giant and the eagles) so in some sense those were more 'exploration' challenges because they had to run and hide. In fact, the combat part of the encounters only happened because of failed stealth/survival/perception checks.

Bosh
2022-04-19, 12:26 AM
For small PC groups what's worked surprisingly well for me is to run TSR-D&D modules converting monsters on the fly (keeping their comparatively low HP etc.). But that's probably more radical than most people want to go with. But yeah, group initiative for monsters is very helpful.

5eNeedsDarksun
2022-04-19, 01:22 AM
I often just use the average damage for monster attacks instead of rolling. Exceptions would be as a character nears 0 hp or crits.

For hordes I'll assign a proportion of saving throws made/ missed based on likely outcome rather than rolling bunches of dice.

I also do most of what's described in the OP, with the exception of rounding damage.

Mastikator
2022-04-19, 04:50 AM
I use a timer for the players.

In my experience the problem often stems from the players. One player needs 5 minutes to decide what to do, they ask the DM about countless details on the battlemap. This causes other players to lose interest and go on their phone or build dice towers, they pay less attention and will need a recap. These added recaps eat away even more time, causing even more boredom and it just compounds to infinity.
The solution is to introduce a timer for the players, sometimes I give a short recap what their character last saw and if they seem indecisive they take defensive action and move on to the next player. The next player then did not get bored, did not space out, did hold attention and has an idea what they want to do.

Another problem- again from the players- is that they don't know how their own class features work and need to read about how to use them on their turn in combat. To me this is unacceptable, you either have the info right in front of you or you know it by heart. This goes back to the timer, if you can't look it up within the timer then you can't use the class feature.
Spell cards, the dndbeyond app, writing down the class features on the back of the character sheet are all easily available solutions that I encourage players to take advantage of.

The one exception to the timer is when a player casts a complicated spell, I'll ask them to read it out loud. This often saves time since spells don't always work like people remember.

A side effect of the timer is that players will start to characters that are simple enough for them to know.

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I use name tags and charts for enemies.

Behind the DM screen I use charts for enemies, I also use name tags. Name tags are just paper slips that say "enemy #1", "enemy #2" etc. The chart has enemy name abbreviation - name tag - hp - effect.
This really helps me keep track of enemies.
I also have screenshots of monster stats pasted into the DM notes so I can access them quickly.

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I limit the number of enemies on the battlemat.

Don't fight 5 dogs, just fight a swarm of dogs.
Don't bring in all 10 goblins instantly, start with 4 and bring in 2 extra every turn.

Sneak Dog
2022-04-19, 09:08 AM
Use paper.
Tracking NPC health on paper is fast. Just scribble the damage they take. At the start of combat I make a little header for each enemy with their max HP. Scribble damage they take beneath it. When they take damage which might be enough to kill them, I go do some quick calculations.

Use paper.
As player, glancing your AC from a sheet of paper is somehow faster than from a digital sheet.

Introduce the turn, ask for the player's action.
As GM when you get to a player's turn, describe the situation with a suggestion of what the player might want to do, ask them what they do. Don't spend a minute waiting for them to dawdle, if they don't know what to do just take the 'default' action, in 5e this'd be the dodge action.
"Bob. Three orcs are near your plate-armoured dwarf, but one sneaky orc managed to slip by and stab your wizard quite badly. They look like they could use help. What do you do?"
It's the equivalent of the OP's preparing tactics advice, but getting the players to do it as a GM.

Have multiple d20's as GM.
You can now roll 4d20 and even 4d4 along with them for those four attacking goblins in one go.

Oh, and for some groups, ban all electronics. People get distracted by dings, bloops and even small amounts of time passing without checking the thingy. Ban them. Saves time getting players back in the game from the distraction or even them distracting other players. Somehow doodling hasn't been disruptive in my experience?
(The GM should be too busy to get distracted and may have too many things to track to reasonably all use paper for. So they get an exception.)
Impractical for online dungeons. I've managed anyway. Told the players to print their character sheets, grab their physical dice, put the video call on full-screen and then hands off the mouse and keyboard :P
This does mean you need to keep their attention. No long breaks without anything interesting happening for that player. For example, by running fast combat where their turns will be coming up soon, other combatants taking actions whose results change the tactical situation and players need to know what they will do before their turn comes up. Contrast someone looking up their spell, the rules for how the spell works and rolling eighteen dice and adding them together.

Sigreid
2022-04-19, 09:27 AM
in a word, Fantasy Grounds. It does a lot of the heavy lifting/tracking in combat for me.

Psyren
2022-04-19, 10:33 AM
I would like to state that "6-8 encounters per long rest" does not have to be 6-8 combats. Encounters are anything that may use resources, so infiltrating a court meeting, or bypassing a chasm can also count as encounters. Mix things up.

I'll add to this that "per long rest" does not have to mean "per session" (much less multiple times per session.) You can have multiple sessions occur in the span of one rest, and that will tax the players' resources too. 6-8 combats in one real world day can be a lot, but become a lot more doable over a week or two.

PhoenixPhyre
2022-04-19, 10:43 AM
I'll add to this that "per long rest" does not have to mean "per session" (much less multiple times per session.) You can have multiple sessions occur in the span of one rest, and that will tax the players' resources too. 6-8 combats in one real world day can be a lot, but become a lot more doable over a week or two.

Yeah. My current party is doing a major wave-based battle over a couple sessions. Effectively each one is a separate combat, but without any breaks. If they take too long, they can get multiple waves together; if they're fast they can get a round or a few to regroup.

1 adventuring day =/= 1 session. I've had sessions where we did 3-4 adventuring days (not full ones, but that's ok) and adventuring days stretched over 3 sessions.


Not to mention that you don't need 6-8 combats! That's not a system requirement! That's a post hoc observation about the playtest parties and a threshold for "hey DMs, if you schedule more than this in an adventuring day, difficulty may be more than you expected due to lack of resources" warning flags. The classes are not balanced around any particular number of encounters. I've seen the math, but it makes assumptions that aren't warranted. The classes are balanced (roughly) around the idea of variation and teamwork. Where some days will stress one type; others will stress a different one. And a strong sense of "it's a cooperative game, you're not competing with your team mates. Everyone should take measures to help each other be cool."

strangebloke
2022-04-19, 12:13 PM
For small PC groups what's worked surprisingly well for me is to run TSR-D&D modules converting monsters on the fly (keeping their comparatively low HP etc.). But that's probably more radical than most people want to go with. But yeah, group initiative for monsters is very helpful.
This is a fair point yeah, especially at high levels. HP bloat is real, and one of the main reasons high level combat takes so long. You can have mobs of creatures with 50 HP and the party won't be seriously threatened, but it will take a lot of time.

I often just use the average damage for monster attacks instead of rolling. Exceptions would be as a character nears 0 hp or crits.
This is something I should definitely do more, yeah. its one thing if its a 'boss.' but for something like a goblin there's nothing really gained.

I use a timer for the players.
This is one of those tips that's either completely pointless or utterly compulsory. I've had players who consistently took as long as everyone else (including me!) combined. Absolutely unsupportable at the table and hihgly diruptive.[/quote]


Use paper.
Tracking NPC health on paper is fast. Just scribble the damage they take. At the start of combat I make a little header for each enemy with their max HP. Scribble damage they take beneath it. When they take damage which might be enough to kill them, I go do some quick calculations.
Agreed. When rounding to 5, I usually just tally mark up damage. This neatly averts having to do actual math for HP basically ever. You can just count how many marks there are. Ten sets of five marks, each standing for five damage? That's 250 damage, the Storm Giant is dead


Use paper.
As player, glancing your AC from a sheet of paper is somehow faster than from a digital sheet.
another good one. just having a chart handy with basic attack/damage/ac/hp handy will reduce the times you have to tab over by like 90%. Which may seem small, but seconds here and there do add up over the session.



Have multiple d20's as GM.
You can now roll 4d20 and even 4d4 along with them for those four attacking goblins in one go.
If you don't have at least 10d20s, are you even trying?

Oh, and for some groups, ban all electronics. People get distracted by dings, bloops and even small amounts of time passing without checking the thingy. Ban them. Saves time getting players back in the game from the distraction or even them distracting other players. Somehow doodling hasn't been disruptive in my experience?
(The GM should be too busy to get distracted and may have too many things to track to reasonably all use paper for. So they get an exception.)
Impractical for online dungeons. I've managed anyway. Told the players to print their character sheets, grab their physical dice, put the video call on full-screen and then hands off the mouse and keyboard :P
This does mean you need to keep their attention. No long breaks without anything interesting happening for that player. For example, by running fast combat where their turns will be coming up soon, other combatants taking actions whose results change the tactical situation and players need to know what they will do before their turn comes up. Contrast someone looking up their spell, the rules for how the spell works and rolling eighteen dice and adding them together.
This feels unnecessary to me though. I feel like if players are taking too long you can simply introduce the timer/default action rule and let them sort out for themselves why they're playing so slow. As a DM with ADHD I'm sympathetic to not being able to focus for hours on end.



Not to mention that you don't need 6-8 combats! That's not a system requirement! That's a post hoc observation about the playtest parties and a threshold for "hey DMs, if you schedule more than this in an adventuring day, difficulty may be more than you expected due to lack of resources" warning flags. The classes are not balanced around any particular number of encounters. I've seen the math, but it makes assumptions that aren't warranted. The classes are balanced (roughly) around the idea of variation and teamwork. Where some days will stress one type; others will stress a different one. And a strong sense of "it's a cooperative game, you're not competing with your team mates. Everyone should take measures to help each other be cool."


There's no system requirements for... anything, really, but short adventuring days do warp the game considerably, and this has been proven many times through basic math. If you don't care about balance, (which, judging from your previous replies, you don't) then this is no real issue, but if you do, a higher number of encounters allows for fewer distortions.

renzdog
2022-04-19, 12:29 PM
Macros!

I play a lot on roll20. Honestly, many characters are making one of just a few rolls 95% of the time. Having macros set up so you can go through combat without ever opening the character sheet is sweet.

If you have a roll20 pro account group_init is amazing. Rolling initiative for a room full of folks with one click is amazing.

You can check out the one shot with treantmonk, dungeon dudes, and d4 (from Treantmonk's youtube channel) if you want to see a good use of macros to handle conjure animals. I know many folks here don't like him ... but it is impressive how he is the fastest player at the table despite controlling 8-32 animals!

I also like to call combats when victory is not in any doubt. I give the players the option of skipping to the end ... or narrating how the battle ends.

There are a lot of great suggestions from the rest of the posters ... Lots of great ideas!

strangebloke
2022-04-19, 12:49 PM
Macros!

I play a lot on roll20. Honestly, many characters are making one of just a few rolls 95% of the time. Having macros set up so you can go through combat without ever opening the character sheet is sweet.

If you have a roll20 pro account group_init is amazing. Rolling initiative for a room full of folks with one click is amazing.

You can check out the one shot with treantmonk, dungeon dudes, and d4 (from Treantmonk's youtube channel) if you want to see a good use of macros to handle conjure animals. I know many folks here don't like him ... but it is impressive how he is the fastest player at the table despite controlling 8-32 animals!

Macros are nice, they save a lot of memorization and are particularly useful for complex effects with multiple damage types. The only real problem is the overhead involved in setting them up, but as with most things experience will make it easier.

I also like to call combats when victory is not in any doubt. I give the players the option of skipping to the end ... or narrating how the battle ends.

Oh yeah, a lot of times I'll do this too. I'll say "the morale of the enemy breaks, and they flee, you may choose to cut them down as they flee if you wish." Always interesting to see how bloodthirsty your players are :smalltongue:

5eNeedsDarksun
2022-04-19, 01:07 PM
On the player end something I haven't done, but think would help a lot, would be getting character sheets that have information applicable to combat on the front page.
Think about what's on the default front page sheet: background info, equipment, features in a list form that don't really help.
What do players need?
I'd argue 1) at least 1/3 to 1/2 (particularly for casters) of the sheet with a table of common actions that include damage, range, AoE, pertinent save, condition, rider, etc. Even martials like BM and Rune Knight would benefit from this as they level. The tiny block that they give you is almost useless.
2) and a smaller section for Bonus actions and Reactions that includes triggers.

Nidgit
2022-04-19, 02:09 PM
Giving players a heads up when they're next in initiative. Particularly for spell-casters, since they often take a while to decide what to do.

strangebloke
2022-04-19, 02:17 PM
Oh I forgot the obvious. BAN MASS CONJURE SPELLS. Overpowered? Yes. Time-consuming? Also yes. Interesting? Not really, its just a bunch of wolves/animated objects/skeletons.

PhoenixPhyre
2022-04-19, 02:19 PM
Oh I forgot the obvious. BAN MASS CONJURE SPELLS. Overpowered? Yes. Time-consuming? Also yes. Interesting? Not really, its just a bunch of wolves/animated objects/skeletons.

Yeah. 2 dire wolves? No problem. 1 giant constrictor snake? Fine. 8 wolves? 8 tiny animated objects? a crap-ton of skeletons? No thanks. Please don't do that.

stoutstien
2022-04-19, 02:57 PM
Single biggest thing is to drop initiative ASAP. No reason to roll out 3-4 turns of boring nothing.

strangebloke
2022-04-19, 03:00 PM
Single biggest thing is to drop initiative ASAP. No reason to roll out 3-4 turns of boring nothing.

so, what, you do side initiative? I'm a bit confused what you mean here.

Psyren
2022-04-19, 03:05 PM
Single biggest thing is to drop initiative ASAP. No reason to roll out 3-4 turns of boring nothing.


so, what, you do side initiative? I'm a bit confused what you mean here.

Unless I'm misreading, he's saying to end combat once the outcome is foregone, even if one or more enemies are still alive.

EDIT: it appears to have been "end initiative" in this case, though I would definitely question needing to still track things round-by-round or combatant-by-combatant without initiative rather than simply narrating the end result.

stoutstien
2022-04-19, 03:08 PM
so, what, you do side initiative? I'm a bit confused what you mean here.

Once the challenge's outcome is certain just flow back to freeform play where you can just shift over to the next logical person without waiting for their turn to come up. Once the tension is gone the sole purpose of initiative is gone. Same thing for moving from one player to the next. Just do it. Use a shot clock for more experienced players or whatever you need to keep it moving.

Combat isn't long if you remove the jerking stops

Sigreid
2022-04-19, 03:11 PM
Use overwhelming force. Equip the enemies with poisons and flaming oil. Be sure each of the 200 opponent mobs are at least 5cr above character level. That should end it pretty quickly!

Skrum
2022-04-19, 03:32 PM
This is a relatively niche tactic, but IMO it makes large battles actually possible - don't even roll for NPC's, unless they're attacking players. Just group them up and have them inflict losses based on how many are in their group.

For example, if there's a large battle involving the players and their 50 hired mercenaries vs 150 goblins conscripts and 3-4 elites, the mercenaries and conscript goblins don't even get rolls. I decide ahead that goblins will take out 2 mercenaries per 10 goblins, and the mercenaries will take out 3 goblins per 10 mercenaries. I might do this locally (like there's a group of 20 goblins fighting 8 mercenaries) or I might just do it for the whole board.

Yes you could just entirely ad-lib it, but I like having SOME guideline for how effective the NPC's are. Generally, I set it such that if the PC's aren't there, the "good guys" will lose in 3-4 rounds. So the PC's have to make up the difference.

Demonslayer666
2022-04-19, 03:44 PM
Prep is king. I familiarize myself with monsters abilities and have a tactic in mind. I am also familiar with the character's abilities.

Average damage for the monsters.

Narrate end of combat when it's obvious the party will win easily.

Theater of mind for simpler combats, and the battle board for more complex ones. Both save time when used this way.

I have spell casters use a spell sheet that I created so choosing spells is easier. It has each spell on one line with pertinent info.

I have a custom character sheet that breaks down actions by action type so they can list out all their character abilities and more easily decide what to do on their turn (normal, bonus, and reaction).

Noted to players: Arguing rules is for after the session, pay attention, even when it's not your turn, and be ready when it comes to your turn, roll to hit and damage together.

I keep a sheet with character info handy, so I know the basics (HP, AC, Perception, etc.)

Sigreid
2022-04-19, 03:53 PM
This is a relatively niche tactic, but IMO it makes large battles actually possible - don't even roll for NPC's, unless they're attacking players. Just group them up and have them inflict losses based on how many are in their group.

For example, if there's a large battle involving the players and their 50 hired mercenaries vs 150 goblins conscripts and 3-4 elites, the mercenaries and conscript goblins don't even get rolls. I decide ahead that goblins will take out 2 mercenaries per 10 goblins, and the mercenaries will take out 3 goblins per 10 mercenaries. I might do this locally (like there's a group of 20 goblins fighting 8 mercenaries) or I might just do it for the whole board.

Yes you could just entirely ad-lib it, but I like having SOME guideline for how effective the NPC's are. Generally, I set it such that if the PC's aren't there, the "good guys" will lose in 3-4 rounds. So the PC's have to make up the difference.

I'll have players be representative of their side. If the players are doing well, their side is. If the players aren't, they're side is taking it in the shorts.

Asisreo1
2022-04-19, 07:08 PM
I frequently see people react to statements like "6-8 encounters per long rest" with disbelief. "How can you do so much combat, doesn't it get tedious?" Not at all. Combat should be fun, quick, and entertaining, and shouldn't have to use up too much time on the part of the DM. I'm here to share how this is accomplished at my table. This isn't to say that this is the only way to do things, or the best, but as a testimonial of how well this functions for my players, consider the last long rest period my players went through (they're 10th level)

100 orcs with 3 veteran commanders
15 hobgoblins on giant eagles
2 stone giants, 10 shielded war wagons (with 30 heavy crossbowmen in full cover)
2 rocs
35 goblin commandoes armed with explosives and gunpowder
1 cloud giant, 1 roc, 5 hobgoblins on giant eagles

...And they're not yet done! They've still got to fight the boss! Now, this wasn't all done in one session, but in total this took about 4 hours of combat.

But here are the tips

Track damage, not health. If you start by tracking health, you'll need to have a large number written for every enemy in the encounter. When you're working with 30+ enemies, that's a nonstarter. Counting up is easier, since you only have to track damaged monsters, and realistically there will only ever be a few of those, since PCs know to focus fire and eliminate enemies.
Round to 5s for health. It's very rare for an attack at this level to deal less than five damage, and keeping track of small numbers is far easier than keeping track of big ones. I did the math awhile back, but between one thing and another this rarely changes the number of attacks it takes to bring down a big monster. Still, this is a bit 'dishonest' for some people's tastes, and admittedly my players don't know I do this.
Use 1 initiative count for each group of enemies. This allows you to handle a group of say 100 orcs as a batch. What you then do is (in a manner that will be familiar to tabletop strategy game players) declare actions. Five goblins attack him, five go to the bombs, 15 attack you. Once you've declared actions, they all roll at once, and dice cover the table. This is far easier than running one hit after another.
Prep tactics. In DND, most of the time isn't taken up by rolling dice or bookkeeping, its taken by decision-making. So make the decisions for yourself ahead of time. For the goblins I had "some take bombs and hide in the brush by the pass," others try to hold the line, rest try to active bomb-lobber. For the orcs I had "if the veterans are killed the discipline breaks and orcs start fleeing." Having this stuff written ahead of time allows you to save time in combat, because you're following a 'script'. You probably need to establish tactics for each large group of enemies.
Set Terrain: This is probably the most undervalued aspect of encounter design. Something as simple as a 10 foot cliff can really alter how the battle plays out, and can create a tactically interesting and memorable experience. It doesn't make combat itself faster, but imo it does make planning faster, since it establishes something basic to build your encounter around.
Use online resources. Whatever form this takes for you, having tabs open for each spell and monster is a huge time saver over the alternatives. Perhaps a tabbed book can work as well, and in the past I've used both, but


What do you use?
Mob Rules in the DMG.

20 orcs must be cumbersome! Not really, it's actually super easy, barely an inconvenience. It might actually be easier than 6-10 orcs!

The rules state that you look at the orc's to-hit and the Player's AC, see what number they'd need in order to land a hit, then automatically assume that many creatures pure unit group hits.

For example, 20 orcs versus an AC 21 fighter. The orcs have a +5 to-hit, which means they need to roll a 16 or higher. Looking at the chart in the DMG page 250, 4 attackers are needed to hit. There are 5 groups of 4 in the mob, so 5 attacks of the 20 orcs land (they all used their actions for attack). This means you simply roll 5d12+15 damage (or use the average x5). Combined with shared initiative, 20 orcs takes less time than a spellcaster's turn!

Theatre of the Mind. Not every encounter needs minis and a grid. Simply allow players to do what they desire, while saying "no" strategically. "I want to shoot them then turn the corner for cover." "Done." "I want to hit them then back off far enough they can't hit back." You either need to dash for your Bonus action to do that or disengage to prevent an opportunity attack." "I want to cast Fireball without hitting anyone." "The room is too small, but you can choose which ally you hit if you want to cast anyways." In super strategic or deadly games, this can be annoying but if you're not focused on life-or-death every battle, you can easily do this.

Keravath
2022-04-19, 07:35 PM
Oh I forgot the obvious. BAN MASS CONJURE SPELLS. Overpowered? Yes. Time-consuming? Also yes. Interesting? Not really, its just a bunch of wolves/animated objects/skeletons.

Great suggestions in the first post! :)

I find the bigger slow downs are the PCs usually ...
1) Decisions - analysis paralysis can set in especially for spell casters
2) Inefficiency - this is a pet peeve at times but some players are glacial and don't pay attention to what numbers have already hit or not - or whether 20+ will hit. In this case the player does the following -
- their turn starts
- thinks for a bit
- says I'll attack
- searches for their d20
- rolls their d20 - sees the number - looks at their character sheet - takes 10 seconds to add their mod to the number - says the final number - "Does 18 hit?"
- waits for the DM to say Yes or No
- If Yes, searches for the damage die, rolls the damage die, looks at the character sheet to find their damage modifier, takes 10 seconds to add them together, says "I do 8 damage".
- rinse and repeat for each attack - asking whether each attack hits whether they roll a 10 or a 22 or whether they know the previous character hit with a 17.

One of the DMs I play with gently reminds some of the players that '20s will hit' since otherwise they will ask each and every time.

On the other hand, it is just as easy to have read the character sheet in advance - there are only two numbers needed and they aren't hard to remember. Roll ALL the d20s to hit and all the damage dice (bonus points for using color coordinated dice). Then just ask the DM whether hits occur on the edge cases and otherwise just tell him the damage done on each attack.

The DM rolling for 100 orcs can be faster than a player who runs their character this way.

3) Summoned creatures in the hands of a player of the type above are a nightmare.

-----

However, most of the folks who use summon spells that I have met use the same techniques as the OP suggested - rolling dice at once - efficiently resolving the attacks and when that happens an efficient player with summoned creatures is faster than a slow player. As a result, I haven't seen any need to ban spells than summon groups of creatures.

In addition, by the time those options become common, so are fireballs (at least some of the time) so lots of little creatures can sometimes be a less than effective choice.

Elder_Basilisk
2022-04-19, 08:14 PM
1. Representative minis. No more slowing things down to ask, "is the hobgoblin in the back wearing heavy armor? No the one on the left." There's nothing wrong with, for example dice or numbered bases but if you can do what you see is what you get it goes more quickly.

2. Colored dot stickers on the base of the minis. There's the red dot snake cultist, the yellow dot snake cultist, the red, green, yellow, and purple dot hobgoblin impalers, and a red Hand warmage. I can write the color and mini next to the statblock and easily see which mini it goes to. The players likewise can see which one they're attacking and tell me where to put the damage.

3. Roll multiple saves etc at once. Use a simple formula like white, dark green, purple, light green dice. Applied in order from the top of the notesheet

4. Simple but still some people miss it. Assuming you roll damage at all (rather than using average which can speed things for exceptionally large combats), roll damage with your attack. Use the same colored dice so if you have multiple attacks, you can roll them both at once.

Kane0
2022-04-19, 09:25 PM
Things I do:

- Average HP and damage rolls for standard NPCs, summons, etc
- Corollary to above, crits are simply double damage.
- Each player can control at most 2 creatures. An absent player can delegate their PC to another but not if they are already controlling a mount, familiar, summon, magic pokeball item, etc
- 'Half TotM'. We have a whiteboard with magnets for tracking init, damage and scribbling low-resolution/low-stakes combat and the table hexgrid for high detail, high impact encounters
- 'Lets just say 13' (bit of an in-joke, rolls that are cocked or fall off the table or things we don't want to bother rolling over and over)
- Minis only for important PCs and NPCs, everyone else gets a generic token or magnet
- We have colored bases to throw under tokens & minis to help remind people of conditions & effects (especially if one is currently in mid-air)
- Spell cards and/or online resources
- Fast-and-loose AoE and terrain. Battles are messy and perception imperfect, we don't measure out our fireballs for ideal impact
- NPCs with their own statblocks will have a small section for 'Will do X, won't do Y' applicable for RPing and combat tactics
- PCs are encouraged to and rewarded for acting quickly during combat by the DM. This often means inspiration or advantage, some extra movement or a reduced resource cost when you declare a reckless action fast and just go with it where you otherwise would be sitting there contemplating the most efficient course of action.

strangebloke
2022-04-19, 09:35 PM
Once the challenge's outcome is certain just flow back to freeform play where you can just shift over to the next logical person without waiting for their turn to come up. Once the tension is gone the sole purpose of initiative is gone. Same thing for moving from one player to the next. Just do it. Use a shot clock for more experienced players or whatever you need to keep it moving.

Combat isn't long if you remove the jerking stops
True, a lot of this does come back to accelerating players. The DM usually isn't the one holding the party up, at least imx.

Use overwhelming force. Equip the enemies with poisons and flaming oil. Be sure each of the 200 opponent mobs are at least 5cr above character level. That should end it pretty quickly!
Perhaps today is a good day to die

This is a relatively niche tactic, but IMO it makes large battles actually possible - don't even roll for NPC's, unless they're attacking players. Just group them up and have them inflict losses based on how many are in their group.

Yeah, I'll agree to this. In mass combat, I'll either take average damage each turn, or just make it as simple as "each side kills one of the other each turn."


Theatre of the Mind. Not every encounter needs minis and a grid. Simply allow players to do what they desire, while saying "no" strategically. "I want to shoot them then turn the corner for cover." "Done." "I want to hit them then back off far enough they can't hit back." You either need to dash for your Bonus action to do that or disengage to prevent an opportunity attack." "I want to cast Fireball without hitting anyone." "The room is too small, but you can choose which ally you hit if you want to cast anyways." In super strategic or deadly games, this can be annoying but if you're not focused on life-or-death every battle, you can easily do this.
Oh of course. Generally I find that each means has its advantages.
TotM :

gives you unlimited canvas space (flying mounts! outdoor archery duels)
faster play (if there are a lot of enemies but not many enemy types)
quicker setup

Grid :

prettier
faster (if there is complex terrain and/or lots of enemy types)
more gritty and tactical



Great suggestions in the first post! :)

I find the bigger slow downs are the PCs usually ...
This is true, yeah. At some point the answer is, take the player aside and give them flowcharts they can fall back on.

However, most of the folks who use summon spells that I have met use the same techniques as the OP suggested - rolling dice at once - efficiently resolving the attacks and when that happens an efficient player with summoned creatures is faster than a slow player. As a result, I haven't seen any need to ban spells than summon groups of creatures.

In addition, by the time those options become common, so are fireballs (at least some of the time) so lots of little creatures can sometimes be a less than effective choice.
It really depends. I've seen experienced players that took quit a while trying to hem and haw over exact positioning and actions, that sort of thing. Animate Dead is particularly obtrusive because there's the whole corpse acquisition minigame.

Bosh
2022-04-19, 10:01 PM
This is a fair point yeah, especially at high levels. HP bloat is real, and one of the main reasons high level combat takes so long. You can have mobs of creatures with 50 HP and the party won't be seriously threatened, but it will take a lot of time.

Of course with a larger party, the PCs will just bulldoze their way through the enemies if you use TSR-D&D monsters. But I could often get through as many as six fights in an HOUR (plus exploration) going through the excellent Caverns of Thracia module with my two sons early on in the pandemic. For fast combat what I'm thinking of doing going forward after having some fights bog down is:

-Keeping the number of PCs relatively small. If they need to boost their numbers give them some NPC henchmen (who work as a unit, go on the same initiative and who I roll all dice for).

-Use the same sort of CR encounters I'd use if the party was a bit bigger but take a battleaxe to monster HP. That way monsters are dangerous but don't take forever to kill.

-Have a wider range of CR encounters than you normally get in 5e. Having some speed bump encounters where the enemies go down in a round or two is FINE, players tend to love those and it teaches them to conserve their resources. Also put in some NASTY encounters where the PCs either have to go all out or run away.

-Lots of interesting terrain that smart PCs can use to avoid or hamstring enemies.

-Continue to make monster morale be a thing. Have some encounters where the NPCs fire off a volley at the PCs and then run, check for morale constantly as the critters take casualties.

-Try to have the PCs control how many encounters per day there is as much as the DM. This worked great in Caverns of Thracia as the PCs always wanted to go deeper in to explore more rooms and get more treasure rather than fighting a bunch of wandering monsters without treasure. As I wouldn't let the PCs long rest in the dungeon they always had to make the tough choice of when to call it a day and head out. PCs haven't had as much freedom in more potted adventures and would want to focus on emphasizing this.

Hytheter
2022-04-19, 11:41 PM
Narrate end of combat when it's obvious the party will win easily.

The problem here is that if you're attempting to run an attrition-based multi-encounter adventuring day, the question isn't necessarily whether the players will win but how much resources (note: HP is a resource) will be lost before they win. It's all well and good to say 'well, you beat two giants already and the last has 50% HP, you guys obviously win' but that last giant is still at full offensive capacity and might deal a significant amount of damage before actually going down.

You can get around that somewhat by having the monsters surrender or flee as they logically might, but that will lead to different outcomes than simply narrating their defeat.



2) Inefficiency - this is a pet peeve at times but some players are glacial and don't pay attention to what numbers have already hit or not - or whether 20+ will hit.

I don't even hide monster AC, I tell the players straight up. I find this helps to speed things up a little, but you'll still get someone asking 'does it hit' every other turn.

Sigh.

Maybe I should implement a 'if you have to ask, then it misses' rule. :smallbiggrin:

Keravath
2022-04-20, 07:47 AM
True, a lot of this does come back to accelerating players. The DM usually isn't the one holding the party up, at least imx.

Perhaps today is a good day to die

Yeah, I'll agree to this. In mass combat, I'll either take average damage each turn, or just make it as simple as "each side kills one of the other each turn."

Oh of course. Generally I find that each means has its advantages.
TotM :

gives you unlimited canvas space (flying mounts! outdoor archery duels)
faster play (if there are a lot of enemies but not many enemy types)
quicker setup

Grid :

prettier
faster (if there is complex terrain and/or lots of enemy types)
more gritty and tactical



This is true, yeah. At some point the answer is, take the player aside and give them flowcharts they can fall back on.

It really depends. I've seen experienced players that took quit a while trying to hem and haw over exact positioning and actions, that sort of thing. Animate Dead is particularly obtrusive because there's the whole corpse acquisition minigame.

Agreed. If a player can't play summons efficiently then I'll ask them to reduce the number they summon or use another spell. On the other hand, if they are playing it efficiently I don't really have an issue with it - it is just another aspect of the game.

sambojin
2022-04-20, 09:01 AM
This is from someone that plays Druids most of the time. Thus all the wildshape and conjure and summon shenanigans involved in that.

Use phone apps. Everyone has a phone. Many people have an old backup phone. Get the apps that give the details on the beast/ Fey/ elemental/ whatever that you're wildshaping into, or that got conjured/ summoned.

Kindly pass your phone to your DM, with all those stats available to them. Don't worry, it's still your phone, you can look at it when you want. But the DM can't be expected to have druid-level knowledge about all that stuff specifically, while having excellent knowledge about all the other stuff too.

Oh, and use average damage rolls for summons or hordes. It really speeds things up. Especially for Druids, that might be causing rolls for DC saves and stuff anyway, with tonnes of stuff.

KorvinStarmast
2022-04-20, 09:48 AM
I use three words:
"Make a decision" said directly to the player.

This is the companion to my usual guidance to players "when it's your turn in combat, you have about a minute to ask two relevant questions and then tell me what your PC is doing.
If you can't make a decision, your PC takes the Dodge action and it's the next player's turn.

Giving players a heads up when they're next in initiative. Particularly for spell-casters, since they often take a while to decide what to do. That is the Player's responsibility: That is not the DM's responsibility unless you are mentoring a newbie. Players have to pay attention and stay engaged, and be ready when it's their turn. See above for my further thoughts on that.

2. For summons: arrange and agree with the summoner 3-5 summon packages outside of game time. That way both DM and player know which package is in play when the player summons them, and DM is not surprised by the work load.

3. Use morale for large groups. Once the leader is down, make a morale check for the minions. (@KurtKurageous did superb job of that Monday night in our CoS game as a couple of our PCs tried to take down the leader while the others were trying to deal with the minions bearing crossbows).

As our raged barbarian charged at the ambush and dropped two archers in short order, taking (what appeared to be) negligible damage (yes, she took damage but that resistance meant it wasn't a great deal), a few of them moved back but still loosed bolts at us, and then their leader (who had just dropped the arrow filled paladin) got dropped by a smite from the "wait, I thought she was dead!" paladin (my celestial lock had gotten her up with a bonus action heal and she was next to go - she stood up and smite happened) - the rest decided discretion was the better part of valor (our rogue having dropped a few and then hiding behind the wagon between shots was added incentive for them to get gone ...) I think about half of them lived to tell the tale thanks to their ability to run.

Demonslayer666
2022-04-20, 10:56 AM
The problem here is that if you're attempting to run an attrition-based multi-encounter adventuring day, the question isn't necessarily whether the players will win but how much resources (note: HP is a resource) will be lost before they win. It's all well and good to say 'well, you beat two giants already and the last has 50% HP, you guys obviously win' but that last giant is still at full offensive capacity and might deal a significant amount of damage before actually going down.

You can get around that somewhat by having the monsters surrender or flee as they logically might, but that will lead to different outcomes than simply narrating their defeat.



I don't even hide monster AC, I tell the players straight up. I find this helps to speed things up a little, but you'll still get someone asking 'does it hit' every other turn.

Sigh.

Maybe I should implement a 'if you have to ask, then it misses' rule. :smallbiggrin:

I would not likely narrate the finish of a giant encounter where the last one of three had 50% of their HP left, unless the players were very high level and there was little chance the giant would survive. It's when they barely survive the last round of attacks, or the party mopped the floor with 80% of the baddies without any trouble. Some combats turn out to be much easier than I anticipated. It also depends on when the encounter happens and what is coming too. Another couple hits before a long rest doesn't really use up any resources.

I do not like telling my players the monster's AC. I will remind them of previous hits to try and save time. Not Telling the players the monsters AC keeps them honest. They won't gloss over the addition and claim a hit. I like keeping them in the habit of of doing the addition.



Oh, I remember another thing I do that saves time. When there are many of the same combatants, and I don't want to track damage separately, I will represent them with a d6 starting on 6, and turn down the number as they take damage.

Psyren
2022-04-20, 11:59 AM
On the Theater of the Mind point, it's worth remembering that the DMG provides guidance to make running that mode of combat more consistent/tactical, particularly regarding AoE placement. See "Adjudicating Areas of Effect," DMG 249.

strangebloke
2022-04-20, 01:22 PM
-Lots of interesting terrain that smart PCs can use to avoid or hamstring enemies.

-Continue to make monster morale be a thing. Have some encounters where the NPCs fire off a volley at the PCs and then run, check for morale constantly as the critters take casualties.

-Try to have the PCs control how many encounters per day there is as much as the DM. This worked great in Caverns of Thracia as the PCs always wanted to go deeper in to explore more rooms and get more treasure rather than fighting a bunch of wandering monsters without treasure. As I wouldn't let the PCs long rest in the dungeon they always had to make the tough choice of when to call it a day and head out. PCs haven't had as much freedom in more potted adventures and would want to focus on emphasizing this.
Yeah, these are all fun, and add a layer of realism to the game. I really like gritty dungeon crawls with lots of interesting floor tiles - it's a style of play that's really unique and requires a bit more setup, but is absolutely a joy for everyone. Retreating in particular is a big thing, though IMO if you're going to use monsters with low hp that retreat quickly, you should also boost their damage to make the PCs feel the pain.

Agreed. If a player can't play summons efficiently then I'll ask them to reduce the number they summon or use another spell. On the other hand, if they are playing it efficiently I don't really have an issue with it - it is just another aspect of the game.
Well my feeling for something like Conjure Animals is

its really really good. Like broken-good
its disruptive from the perspective of everyone's time unless the player is a pro (or if the DM does all the work)
its not very interesting, since it just floods the board with expendable bodies.

So even if you can make it work, I'm not really interested in doing so.

BRC
2022-04-20, 01:36 PM
A few things

1) Communicate when an enemy is on "Death's Door", meaning a single basic attack is likely to finish them off. This cuts down on planning time as the player considers if they should spend resources. Saying "The enemy is at Death's Door" makes it clear that, yeah, you can just do a basic attack and finish them off.

2) Alternatively, if an enemy would end an attack with only a few hit points, just let the enemy die to that attack.

Easy e
2022-04-20, 02:52 PM
My solution is pretty radical and in fact maybe antithetical to many forumites. The GM doesn't follow the rules.

You simply play combat until it isn't interesting anymore and then it is resolved. The foes and effects do exactly what they need to do to keep combat interesting, and the PCs doing things. The foes last exactly as long as is needed. The challenge level is exactly (or a little higher than) what the PCs need to stay invested. You make sure all the characters get a chance to shine or accomplish something.

Once the combat's narrative objectives have been met, it is no longer useful, so end it. Combat ends as the foes flee, surrender, die, win, etc.

Yakk
2022-04-20, 03:36 PM
Use Bad Tactics
As the DM, you are in charge of both the monster's tactics and what monsters the players are fighting.

Running monsters with optimal tactics takes lots of extra time during the fight. Running more monsters easier.

So if you want a harder fight, use more monsters, not smarter monsters.

Ie:
Focus fire is optimal. Deciding who to optimally attack takes time. So have your enemies not intelligently focus fire.

If you have 20 archers and 5 PCs? 4 attacks per PC. No thinking, just doing.

There is no trophy for "using the lowest amount of CR to cause the most pain to PCs".

Note that this "bad tactics" is "bad tactics in the D&D combat simulator"; the D&D combat simulator rewards actions that don't make much sense in a "real" fight. In a "real" fight, you don't ignore all but 1 foe as you whittle that one foe down; you threaten everyone you can so they are all forced to play defensively. "Bad tactics" here means "not optimal tactics in the D&D combat engine".

---

As a bonus, when you do want some foe to be a "tactical genius", you can just start not being a tactical moron. And they'll look amazing. ;)

Samayu
2022-04-23, 08:12 PM
If the DM isn't using a turn tracker app, have a player track initiative, and tell people when they're up and when they're next.

Also, when initiatives are totaled, make sure everybody knows whose turn is directly before theirs. It helps them get into the swing of recognizing when it will be their turn.

Cheesegear
2022-04-24, 12:35 AM
I frequently see people react to statements like "6-8 encounters per long rest" with disbelief. "How can you do so much combat, doesn't it get tedious?" Not at all. Combat should be fun, quick, and entertaining, and shouldn't have to use up too much time on the part of the DM.

There's your problem. Most of the time, the thing that slows down combat, isn't the DM. It's the players.

In my experience, players don't want to be 'boring.' That means they don't want to be Fighters, Rogues or Barbarians. They want to cast spells, use abilities, use Actions, Bonus Actions and free actions, all the time, every turn, no action economy can be wasted. Look how exciting and fun and how versatile my character is!

...And I dread when my players do this. Because you know what I hear when I hear 'Versatile'? I hear 'Complicated.'

Players have so many options that even when their turn rolls around, they don't know what to do, because their options are so *ahem* versatile, they're trying to pick the best action to take, the best spell for this specific situation. In D&D, specifically, there's also a slight problem of how spells don't do what the spell name says it does. There are spells that take a minute to cast, ten minutes to cast. 'Don't worry guys, I can cast Prayer of Healing, we'll all be fine.' ...Doesn't that take 10 minutes to cast? 'Oh, oh it does. Okay I need more time to think.'
Every time. :smallsigh:
'Okay, I want to Healing Word, and then I'll Cure Wounds and then-' You can't Bonus Action and levelled spell in the same turn.
'Oh that's right. I knew that...Um...Hang on.' ...Hang on? Again? It's been your turn for 4 minutes and you haven't done anything yet.

In my experience, it isn't the DM who slows down combat.

Eradis
2022-04-27, 08:46 AM
Lots of cool stuff here!

Here's what I do:

Player's side

What's the best time saver at my tables is that I ask players to prepare their turn in advance. When the spellcaster's turn arrive, he doesn't have to shuffle through his spellbook and wonder what he'll do. He already decided before his turn.

Also, I ask them to roll damage with the attack. If it hits, the dice are already there to read. If it miss, well, they just rolled too many dice. It adds a little fun even that useless roll "phew, okay, I wouldn't have done that much anyway" or "Gorramit! It would have been the equivalent of a crit. I'm gonna make it pay to deflect my sword!".

DM's side

I sometime use two type of minion rules.

The first is the 4th edition minion: I dumb down the creature and use a static damage output. Its HP is usually 1 or 5.

The second is one I borrow from Fantasy Flight Games' Star Wars. A group of minion share a common HP pool and are deadlier when they are many and becomes less effective when they are fewer of them left. The group act as one creature with bonuses according to their number. So the group might make a single attack for example and when targeted, the group is targeted. The fun part is when you deal more damage than the hp of multiple creatures (If the set hp per creature is 5 and there is 5 in a group, the group has 25 HP; you deal 11 points of damage, you kill two of the five).

In both cases, it builds up tension for the Players as they see a massive number of threats AND it makes them feel more heroic because even a low level character could kill multiple enemies with a single swing or cast.

Not to be abused though.

KorvinStarmast
2022-04-27, 09:30 AM
If the DM isn't using a turn tracker app, have a player track initiative, and tell people when they're up and when they're next.

Also, when initiatives are totaled, make sure everybody knows whose turn is directly before theirs. It helps them get into the swing of recognizing when it will be their turn. We had any number of DM assistants when we played AD&D (player counts varied from 3 to 10 depending on the night). It helped to keep the pace of combat moving. I have not noticed 5e DM's nor players being all that eager for that role to be fulfilled ...

There's your problem. Most of the time, the thing that slows down combat, isn't the DM. It's the players. With a few exceptions, yes, that's what I've seen also.

Cheesegear
2022-04-27, 10:08 AM
What's the best time saver at my tables is that I ask players to prepare their turn in advance.

Unfortunately that falls apart almost always.

Where you want to move gets blocked by hostiles.
Your teammate does a crit, and kills your target. Hey...Well now who do I target?
Your teammate's turn turns to ****, and now it's up to you, to do what they couldn't. How do you do that?
The DM did a trick, and now the combat's changed. Change your plans.
You just got critted, and are now on 4. Do you want to run now, or are you going to debate if the Healer can get to you before you get attacked next?

Then of course your players can't plan their own turns because they're actually paying attention to what's happening during the combat. Your teammate is doing a dumb. They thought about their turn in advance, and now they're doing something stupid. Quick. You need to talk them out of doing something stupid and halt their turn. It's really hard to know what to do when you haven't thought about it.

And therein lies the trick.

Just know what your character does. If you don't remember what your character can do - or can't look it up quickly - your character probably does too many things and your decision tree is taking too long.

This is why DMs love Barbarians, but players hate them.

This is a True Story
Barbarian says: 'I move to the closest. Rage and Attack. RAAAAARGH! ...Uuhhh. Next.' Good. Perfect. I love you. More of you please. We'll have this combat done quick.

Sorcadin says: Well, no, umm...I can't reach you now 'cause you ran forwards. I have this spell...But it's only has Touch range. Um... Okay what about this one? Nope, it takes 1 minute to cast. Oh can I use my Crossbow? No wait I have a Shield on...Can't do that. What about? ...No that's a Touch spell as well. This spell doesn't even work in combat...I don't want to run forwards. Maybe I'll...Umm...I think I'll ready an Action. Now let me think. If an enemy comes within...No but I'm not tanking. Ah yes, if an enemy attacks my friend...No wait I'm not close enough. Okay I have to move first. Then I Ready an Action. Oh and I want to use my Bonus Action. Wait. Can I rewind and use my Bonus Action before I moved, then move? Okay? Then Ready. Then end.

Warlock says: '**** you're slow. I cast Eldritch Blast at the guy Barbarian hit. Dead? Awesome. Team X-Treme. End my turn.'

Eradis
2022-04-27, 10:17 AM
Unfortunately that falls apart almost always.

Where you want to move gets blocked by hostiles.
Your teammate does a crit, and kills your target. Hey...Well now who do I target?
Your teammate's turn turns to ****, and now it's up to you, to do what they couldn't. How do you do that?
The DM did a trick, and now the combat's changed. Change your plans.
You just got critted, and are now on 4. Do you want to run now, or are you going to debate if the Healer can get to you before you get attacked next?

Then of course your players can't plan their own turns because they're actually paying attention to what's happening during the combat. Your teammate is doing a dumb. They thought about their turn in advance, and now they're doing something stupid. Quick. You need to talk them out of doing something stupid and halt their turn. It's really hard to know what to do when you haven't thought about it.

And therein lies the trick.

Just know what your character does. If you don't remember what your character can do - or can't look it up quickly - your character probably does too many things and your decision tree is taking too long.

This is why DMs love Barbarians, but players hate them.

This is a True Story
Barbarian says: 'I move to the closest. Rage and Attack. RAAAAARGH! ...Uuhhh. Next.' Good. Perfect. I love you. More of you please. We'll have this combat done quick.

Sorcadin says: Well, no, umm...I can't reach you now 'cause you ran forwards. I have this spell...But it's only has Touch range. Um... Okay what about this one? Nope, it takes 1 minute to cast. Oh can I use my Crossbow? No wait I have a Shield on...Can't do that. What about? ...No that's a Touch spell as well. This spell doesn't even work in combat...I don't want to run forwards. Maybe I'll...Umm...I think I'll ready an Action. Now let me think. If an enemy comes within...No but I'm not tanking. Ah yes, if an enemy attacks my friend...No wait I'm not close enough. Okay I have to move first. Then I Ready an Action. Oh and I want to use my Bonus Action. Wait. Can I rewind and use my Bonus Action before I moved, then move? Okay? Then Ready. Then end.

Warlock says: '**** you're slow. I cast Eldritch Blast at the guy Barbarian hit. Dead? Awesome. Team X-Treme. End my turn.'

It almost always work at my tables. I don't know what to say...

Sure mishap can happen, but when you know that your objective is to inflict damage on your next turn and your target dies, it is not long to decide "Okay then, I'll shoot X instead" or "Alright, let me get closer to Y so I can thrust my pike into it".

A fallen comrade or yourself as a PC getting injured? As easy. What are your character priority in battle? Survival of self, or the group or destruction of threat?

And for when game changer from the environment or huge action from a PC or NPC, the table will certainly react if it was at all impactful. This give time to the player on deck to think of his/her character's action. Most of the time, it makes the decision that much more close to the PC's reaction because there is a bit of an emotion involved with the player himself.

Kurt Kurageous
2022-04-27, 12:49 PM
Things I do:
1. I have an excel spreadsheet printed out with 400 random d20 rolls. This helps with multiattack, mass attack, mass saves, and speeds up the monster's turns greatly. Sure, I know the numbers coming up, but I don't know what they will be used for (initiative, save, attack), so it's of little consequence. When I have to roll a dex save for eight monsters in a fireball, or eight advantaged/disadvantaged attacks versus the same PC, it's a lifesaver. And it is very helpful if I have to reconstruct an outcome because I forgot a modifier including advantage/disadvantage. Try doing that with a handful of d20s you just picked up off the table.

2. I have a player manager sheet that has among other things each PC's AC, spell DC and current HP. I don't bother to say how many HP they took when the go to 0 or below, I just say, "downed."

3. I dont keep monster AC a secret forever. Truth is, IRL a combatant figures out real quick how hard it is/what it will take to damage a foe. After the first or second round of combat, I tell them the target AC. Sure, its a mini-game to try and figure out the AC, with each player participating in a group game of "too high-too low," but its not why they play D&D. HP, like AC is an abstraction. Attempts to quantify it are doomed to fail.

4. I'm ambivalent to dramatic descriptions of hits, misses and deaths, and hostile to it when its a large and complex encounter. I felt for a long time that, "how do you want to do this?" at the end of a fight was silly. If the last blow is dramatically important, sure.

5. I remind players that discussion is not really an option in combat. Discussion between rests, ok, but not between turns in a round. I've yet to find a friendly way to speed up tactical decision making. If I had to, I'd silently count down from six and force the indecisive to take the dodge action that turn. Then they'd probably quit the game at some later point. As a player, I plan my turn in advance and have at least two plans in mind. I can't expect other players to be like me. I also love playing wizard.

6. I keep initiative on a 3x5 card behind the screen. I write down the two key monster numbers as A13 H11. The HP changes, so I write that second. I will also sometimes write down something like +5 d12+3 for a +5 to hit and d12 +3 damage if its a monster I don't know offhand. The above example was an orc, of course. Each monster has a token with a letter on it. I only note the injured as they get injured.

7. I have typed into reduced statblocks every monster and NPC that does not have legendary actions/lair actions. I insert them into the adventures I write so they are on the same page as the scene where they appear. A typical statblock is less than half of a page width and generally no more that 3" high. They allow me to quickly determine save bonuses and keep track of spell/save DCs.

Kurt Kurageous
2022-04-27, 01:02 PM
3. Use morale for large groups. Once the leader is down, make a morale check for the minions. (@KurtKurageous did superb job of that Monday night in our CoS game as a couple of our PCs tried to take down the leader while the others were trying to deal with the minions bearing crossbows).

As our raged barbarian charged at the ambush and dropped two archers in short order, taking (what appeared to be) negligible damage (yes, she took damage but that resistance meant it wasn't a great deal), a few of them moved back but still loosed bolts at us, and then their leader (who had just dropped the arrow filled paladin) got dropped by a smite from the "wait, I thought she was dead!" paladin (my celestial lock had gotten her up with a bonus action heal and she was next to go - she stood up and smite happened) - the rest decided discretion was the better part of valor (our rogue having dropped a few and then hiding behind the wagon between shots was added incentive for them to get gone ...) I think about half of them lived to tell the tale thanks to their ability to run.

Gee, thanks again for your kind words on my DMing. Bandits and pirates fight for a share, and if the share is not forthcoming, they don't want to fight.

I expect sentient beings to have a sense of self preservation, even sometimes in very low INT critters like giant insects. If they are getting pummeled at an unexpected rate, they may flee. And some things (slimes, arrogant red dragons, beholders, inexperienced/overconfident players...) don't know when to quit.