Help me build an order cleric!

[Magicspook]

Hey folks! I've got a oneshot coming up on friday, and I need your build advice as I lack any solid ideas.

We will be clearing a necromancer's tower, and we jokingly agreed we would all be playing dwarf clerics. I decided to make an order cleric, inquisitor style. That's where my ideas end.

I looked into the order cleric and it really doesn't make me super excited on the higher levels. The 6th level feature is OK but not great (especially since key enchantment spells like command don't work on undead), and I can't really see any cool 4th level spells that I'm excited for. Looking at multiclassing, I think cleric 4/something else 3 could work, but what would I multiclass to?

I'm really curious to hear your ideas!

[Bobthewizard]

Order cleric 1, evocation wizard X has fun synergy.

Voice of Authority says "If you cast a spell with a spell slot of 1st level or higher and target an ally with the spell, that ally can use their reaction immediately after the spell to make one weapon attack against a creature of your choice that you can see."

Evoker's Sculpt Spells says "When you cast an evocation spell that affects other creatures that you can see, you can choose a number of them equal to 1 + the spell's level. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save."

So you can cast thunderwave, shatter, or fireball on top of the rest of your party, let the party automatically succeed, and then they take no damage, but they are still targeted by the spell, so one of them can use their reaction to make an attack. This works best if one of the party members is a rogue to get them an off-turn sneak attack... maybe mixed with a couple levels of trickery cleric.

[ender241]

Order cleric 1, evocation wizard X has fun synergy.

Voice of Authority says "If you cast a spell with a spell slot of 1st level or higher and target an ally with the spell, that ally can use their reaction immediately after the spell to make one weapon attack against a creature of your choice that you can see."

Evoker's Sculpt Spells says "When you cast an evocation spell that affects other creatures that you can see, you can choose a number of them equal to 1 + the spell's level. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save."

So you can cast thunderwave, shatter, or fireball on top of the rest of your party, let the party automatically succeed, and then they take no damage, but they are still targeted by the spell, so one of them can use their reaction to make an attack. This works best if one of the party members is a rogue to get them an off-turn sneak attack... maybe mixed with a couple levels of trickery cleric.

AoE spells such as those don't target creatures. From the PHB:

"The target of a spell must be within the spell’s range. For a spell like magic missile, the target is a creature. For a spell like fireball, the target is the point in space where the ball of fire erupts."

So RAW, Voice of Authority wouldn't work with those spells

[LudicSavant]

AoE spells such as those don't target creatures. From the PHB:

"The target of a spell must be within the spell’s range. For a spell like magic missile, the target is a creature. For a spell like fireball, the target is the point in space where the ball of fire erupts."

That's a common misconception. Bobthewizard's combo is supported by RAW and RAI (though for now, I'll stick to RAW, since pointing to RAI just makes people go off on a tangent about how they feel about JC).

It is stated repeatedly that Fireball targets creatures in its area (and indeed, if it didn't, uhh... a lot of mechanics would break, but that's a whole tangent). This is stated in the section that defines how AoE effects work in the PHB, the spell description of Fireball itself ("a target takes 8d6 damage on a failed save"), and the section in the DMG on adjudicating AoE spells. There are about 50 different places that tell you that creatures in AoEs are targets, and only one that could be read to suggest that they aren't.

So, you might be wondering "then what's with the Range section? Doesn't that contradict all those other sources?" Well, no, actually.

"The target" doesn't necessarily mean "the only target." In this case, it means the target when resolving the range step. Note the last sentence of that Range section that you quoted from. You'll note that this is how WotC often words mechanics; they'll often refer to "the target" at one step in mechanical resolution, then refer to another "the target" at another step.

[ender241]

snip

I stand corrected. And that makes a lot more sense now that I think about. That is a kind of neat interaction then!

[RogueJK]

Order Cleric 1/Shepherd Druid X also works nicely as a healer/summoner while boosting action economy. When using Unicorn Spirit, not only do you get additional healing out of your Healing Word or Cure Wounds, but also empower the party Rogue or your big Summons to land additional off-turn damage.

So you can do nice combos like:

Round 1 = Conjure Animals with Giant Elk or Giant Constrictor Snake
Round 2+ (after Summons takes some damage) = Bonus Action Unicorn Spirit + Action Cure Wounds with aura heal + Off Turn Giant Constrictor Snake Constrict or Giant Elk Hooves attack

And it stays relevant at higher levels with Conjure Fey using Annis Hag Crushing Hug, Mammoth Stomp, etc.


Summoned Creatures have access to Reactions, but rarely have uses for their Reactions (other than OAs). This combo not only props them up longer with boosted healing, to get additional turns out of the spell slot you spent to summon them, but also allows them to leverage their otherwise unused Reactions into additional off-turn damage.

[LudicSavant]

. The 6th level feature is OK but not great (especially since key enchantment spells like command don't work on undead)

Some unorganized thoughts on the L6 feature:

- The mighty Bless is an Enchantment spell.
- Heroism is actually rather neat, particularly since it comes auto-prepared. It's basically a bonus action cure to (and vaccination against) the Frightened condition that also hands out some temp HP as a cherry-on-top. Action-efficient status removal is generally a Nice Thing.
- You can also remove charm/fear as a bonus action via Calm Emotions. Action efficient status removal is generally a Nice Thing.
- Not sure if your group uses GGtR backgrounds, but since it's a GGtR subclass I might as well mention: Rakdos will give you Dissonant Whispers and Confusion to work with the L6 feature.
- You can also get Dissonant Whisper from Fey-Touched. It works on Undead.

[Magicspook]

Thanks for the suggestions all! I aplrecoate your input (even if I don't specifically mention your post)

So far everyone has suggested caster classes. Is that for a specific reason? I'm asking because I thought order cleric 4/rune knight 3 would be a good fit for the character I have in mind (a judge/inquisitor kind of guy, I thought the fiery shackles from the rune knight would be an awesome fit).

Some of you gave compelling arguments to stay on course with cleric 7. Should I just learn to love the subclass?

[stoutstien]

Your biggest issue is you reaction attack buff doesn't work well targeting clerics. Divine strike and BB don't tend to work with it so it is limited. Still a strong domain.

[LudicSavant]

Your biggest issue is you reaction attack buff doesn't work well targeting clerics. Divine strike and BB don't tend to work with it so it is limited. Still a strong domain.

True. It really benefits from having party members with strong reaction attacks.

[RogueJK]

I'm asking because I thought order cleric 4/rune knight 3 would be a good fit for the character I have in mind (a judge/inquisitor kind of guy, I thought the fiery shackles from the rune knight would be an awesome fit).

Any number of Restrained abilities could be reflavored as "magical shackles of justice". Don't get locked into exactly what the flavor text says for a spell/ability.

If you're wanting an Cleric/Fighter multiclass, Battlemaster could be a good option to mix in with Order Cleric. If you have a party member who greatly benefits from off turn attacks, then the Commander's Strike maneuver basically lets you double-down on the Voice ability, just spending Bonus Actions and Maneuver Dice instead of spell slots to achieve it, for times when you want to ration your spell slots. And for your "Judge/Inquisitor" concept, maneuvers like Commanding Presence, Disarming Attack, Goading Attack, and/or Menacing Attack would all be appropriate.


Your biggest issue is you reaction attack buff doesn't work well targeting clerics. Divine strike and BB don't tend to work with it so it is limited.

That's assuming the party is all comprised of single-classed Clerics...

Granting an off-turn Attack would be great if another player's character is something like a Trickery Cleric/Rogue multiclass with a nasty Sneak Attack, for example. Or if the party has a War Cleric/Paladin multiclass with a stout GWM attack combined with Divine Smite. Or a Nature Cleric/Hunter Ranger multiclass with a punishing Longbow attack, offsetting their Sharpshooter attack penalty with Bless + Archery Fighting Style, and stacking Sharpshooter's +10 damage bonus along with Colossus Slayer and Hunter's Mark for 2d8+1d6+15 damage with that off turn attack. (Like Sneak Attack, some Ranger bonus damage abilities like Hunter's Colossus Slayer and Fey Wanderer's Dreadful Strikes are once per turn, not just on your turn.) Or if the party currently includes a beefy summoned creature conjured up by the party Life Cleric/Shepherd Druid multiclass, who would just love to take another smash at the ir master's enemy with their otherwise unused Reaction. Or similar.

[Rashagar]

Stating my biases up front, my impression of an inquisitor-type character is heavily influenced by the Pathfinder class, so if I were wanting to build that character with an Order domain cleric as the base I'd be looking to multiclass with a class that gives a focus on skills.

I'd probably be drawn to either going arcane trickster rogue 3, or with a ranger 3 multiclass, to get the spell slot bump.

Emphasising the "inquisition" part, going Fey Wanderer ranger would let you add your wisdom bonus to intimidation/persuasion/deception, and let you pick up Expertise in one of your skills through the Canny optional class feature.

[ATHATH]

Fun tidbit: Silvery Barbs is a 1st level reaction spell that you can proc Voice of Authority with. IIRC, the person you give advantage too also counts as a target of the spell. Rogues will love you for the off-turn Sneak Attacks. Sadly, you really don't have the spell slots to cast Silvery Barbs every turn (you start needing to burn 2nd level spell slots or Channel Divinities after the first four castings without a long rest), but it is a neat trick.

[follacchioso]

Some unorganized thoughts on the L6 feature:

- Not sure if your group uses GGtR backgrounds, but since it's a GGtR subclass I might as well mention: Rakdos will give you Dissonant Whispers and Confusion to work with the L6 feature.
- You can also get Dissonant Whisper from Fey-Touched. It works on Undead.
This is technically correct, but how to justify a cleric of the Order domain worshipping Rakdos?

The two Rakdos skills, Performance and Acrobatics, are also a bad fit for a cleric. Dwarves do not even get extra skills.