Shell Defense

[Skrum]

(tortle ability)
How on earth did this ability pass any level of critical thinking on the part of the writer. I'm not trying to be mean, it's just so bad I can't think of ever using it in an "intended" way.

The dodge action is already an option that any character can take. Shell Defense is in direct competition with that, and dodge is better in.... I'm gonna say, in practice, nearly 100% of the time.

If I ever used shell defense it'd be for the lolz. Only in the most contrived situation can I imagine it being mechanically the best option.

[JNAProductions]

Cast a powerful Concentration spell.
Use Shell Defense.
Enjoy advantage on all your Con saves, plus bonus to AC.

[Skrum]

Cast a powerful Concentration spell.
Use Shell Defense.
Enjoy advantage on all your Con saves, plus bonus to AC.

Well that's the thing, it's not really a bonus to armor. You're prone, giving advantage to all melee attacks. Advantage is statistically a +4-5 to the attack, which the armor bonus (at best) breaks even with. And your speed is zero, so you can't reposition or move.

I'd rather just dodge. Automatic disadvantage to all incoming attacks, and you can still move. The advantage on Con is definitely the best ability it gives, but that's still very niche.

If it could be use as a reaction, than it would be quite good. Reaction to draw in, action to come back out again.

[Psyren]

The Str/Con saving throw advantage could be handy in some cases, if you're up against something you know is going to hit one of those saves pretty hard before your next turn. Otherwise I agree that the ability is pretty underwhelming. The AC bonus is effectively negated in melee by you counting as prone, and the disadvantage on Dex saves is rough in a lot of fights.

One nice thing is that it stacks with dodge if you can do the former as a bonus action (e.g. monk Patient Defense) prior to retracting.

[JNAProductions]

The Str/Con saving throw advantage could be handy in some cases, if you're up against something you know is going to hit one of those saves pretty hard before your next turn. Otherwise I agree that the ability is pretty underwhelming. The AC bonus is effectively negated in melee by you counting as prone, and the disadvantage on Dex saves is rough in a lot of fights.

One nice thing is that it stacks with dodge if you can do the former as a bonus action (e.g. monk Patient Defense) prior to retracting.

Dodge stops working if your move speed is 0.

[Skrum]

One nice thing is that it stacks with dodge if you can do the former as a bonus action (e.g. monk Patient Defense) prior to retracting.

This is RAW I'm sure but completely defies all common sense lol.

The other combo I thought of (that's just funny, not really good or anything) is knocking someone prone, grapple, then retract. Adv. on str saves would make it hard to get loose. Not great of course, but I love the image of a tortle grabbing someone's arm than then pulling it into their shell. .

[JNAProductions]

This is RAW I'm sure but completely defies all common sense lol.

The other combo I thought of (that's just funny, not really good or anything) is knocking someone prone, grapple, then retract. Adv. on str saves would make it hard to get loose. Not great of course, but I love the image of a tortle grabbing someone's arm than then pulling it into their shell. .

Strength Saves are not the same as ability checks.

[Psyren]

This is RAW I'm sure but completely defies all common sense lol.

The other combo I thought of (that's just funny, not really good or anything) is knocking someone prone, grapple, then retract. Adv. on str saves would make it hard to get loose. Not great of course, but I love the image of a tortle grabbing someone's arm than then pulling it into their shell. .

Grapple is a Str check, not a Str save, so the retract wouldn't actually do anything to help you maintain it unfortunately.

[Skrum]

Wow, right, my mistake. Yeah that stinks.

[Segev]

Being prone does give disadvantage to ranged attacks against you.

[Skrum]

Being prone does give disadvantage to ranged attacks against you.

There is that, but the lack of movement is generally going to offset. Like they can just run up and attack at advantage, where if you'd taken the dodge action, you can also move to get cover.

Point it, it's so ridiculously specific where this is actually a good idea to use.

[JackPhoenix]

And if the enemy already has an advantage... say, from Pack Tactics or similar ability... applying advantage again does nothing.


Being prone does give disadvantage to ranged attacks against you.

Sort of, but no. People get this wrong a lot. Being prone does give disadvantage on any attacks from further than 5' away and advantage on attacks within 5'. Melee attacks with 10'+ reach? Disadvantage. Point blank ranged attacks? Advantage from being prone within 5' of the enemy and disadvantage for ranged attacks in melee negate each other.

[Leon]

It a option, you may never use it but another may use it all the time. its a quirky thing that that race can do.