Pathfinder 2E Optimization

[Yuldasha]

Hello,

I am looking for resources on Pathfinder 2e optimization that I can use when trying to make an optimal build. I understand that classes are "more balanced in this edition" however I still would like to create an optimal build.

When I say optimal I do not mean damage output but rather what is generally the most effective way to interface with the game. For example in DnD 5e hypnotic pattern is a very powerful crowd control ability and overshadows many later options in spell casting.

Also I know that in 5E having a caster with defenses (AC and good saves) was very powerful, is it the same in Pathfinder 2E?

I appreciate any help in finding resources to construct my character.

[Kurald Galain]

When I say optimal I do not mean damage output but rather what is generally the most effective way to interface with the game.
The most effective way to interface with P2 is, in fact, damage output. The game doesn't have effective crowd control (in the sense that most control spells are single-target, require a crit-failed save, or both), and for this reason martial characters overshadow casters.

I think this doc may help (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/129JKN6eo5K5pEpj7ByeOVhNlzv6uyfOhGVp5s_QTYwI/edit#gid=1612916481), or some earlier threads on the subject:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?636336-(PF2)-Bounded-spellcasting-What-the
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?605003-My-requested-thoughts-on-PF2-after-session-1
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?609493-5-session-impression-of-Pathfinder-2e-(minor-spoilers-for-Fall-of-Plaguestone)/page2

[Yuldasha]

[QUOTE=Kurald Galain;25438676]The most effective way to interface with P2 is, in fact, damage output. The game doesn't have effective crowd control (in the sense that most control spells are single-target, require a crit-failed save, or both), and for this reason martial characters overshadow casters.


Thank you for those links (especially the document). Hmmm the fact that crowd control is not effective really blows my mind.

[Blackhawk748]

Thank you for those links (especially the document). Hmmm the fact that crowd control is not effective really blows my mind.

2e has... a lot of issues like that. Basically murdering the crap out of things is the best solution 95% of the time.

[Yuldasha]

2e has... a lot of issues like that. Basically murdering the crap out of things is the best solution 95% of the time.

Are there other issues that standout?

[Blackhawk748]

Are there other issues that standout?

I took a look at it at Gen Con when it came out and pretty much said "no thanks" from launch. Its just not what I wanted. The biggest thing that stuck out to me, and what I remembered most was just how god awful the non damage options were, particularly the spells that I recalled.

Hitting things with a stick was pretty much the best choice.

I also remember nothing about skills, so take that for what its worth.

[Kurald Galain]

Are there other issues that standout?

Sure. The game makes a big deal about "becoming legendary" at high level, which in most cases means getting +2 to hit or to a saving throw. But you get to take "legendary" skill feats, which allow you to do such "legendary" things as increase your party's overland speed by 10', or get cryptic hints from a religious text, or decipher secret messages faster than normal, or gain slightly more money when performing, or request that enemies abandon combat and talk to you (but the ability spells out that they may simply refuse). Are you feeling "legendary" yet?

[Zombulian]

Thank you for those links (especially the document). Hmmm the fact that crowd control is not effective really blows my mind.

{Scrubbed}

[Yuldasha]

{Scrubbed}

I am new to these forums, what does scrubbed mean?

[Rleonardh]

I think message board mods easing a message.

[Blackhawk748]

I think message board mods easing a message.

It does indeed mean that

[Snowbluff]

Are there other issues that standout?

The action economy. You "have" 3 actions, but a lot of things that aren't actions or are partial actions in PF1 are moved to their own action. This includes things like drawing weapons or climbing.

MAP is another big issue with the action economy, in that it basically just adds a lot of fiddly-ness to the DPR turn while really you'll be doing your best to obviate it. 3 action economy give you MAP gives you MAP reduction.

[Kurald Galain]

The action economy. You "have" 3 actions, but a lot of things that aren't actions or are partial actions in PF1 are moved to their own action. This includes things like drawing weapons or climbing.
Everything you do takes one action. Except spells are usually two actions, sometimes three. And using a feat is one or two or three actions, depending on the feat. And numerous feats cannot be used as your first action, or only as your first action, or only once per round. It sounds like a simplification on paper, but it isn't really.

Usually, most classes want to spend two actions per round on attacking, and the third on either moving or on that class's special ability.

[Eldonauran]

From what I've seen, action economy is king in PF2. If you want something to excel, you need to be a team player and work together with another person in the party.

Personally, I'm eager to try out the Summoner class and combine it with the Beastmaster dedication, and the Medic dedication. Your role will be to first make sure that no one gets to, or stays at, critical HP and to get them back up as soon as possible. Your Eidolon and Companion are going to be your means of participating in active combat. With your more limited spellcasting, you'll save your higher level spells for later and (if you give your Eidolon casting, which will be of lower level slots) your Eidolon can switch roles as needed to assist your companion.