Making an epic level villian

[montoya]

So I have decided to push my group into maybe doing an epic campaign nothing too long but epic in scale. So for the longest time I had this build in my head and figured it would be a good excuse to make it. I was thinking Duskblade 7/Wizard 13/ Eldritch Knight 10 (or Eldritch Knight 7 Rogue 3). Yes level 30 since its epic and the group would be at least 25 when they first encounter this villain. Is this a good build With the expanded wizard list and being able to cast and channel level 9 spells. Also what caster level would he/she be? Also some help with equipment, epic but fair.

[the_tick_rules]

if i read the classes correctly this would have a caster level of 13 wizard 7 duskblade. the 10 from eldritch you would have to pick which class they add to. if you have magic item compendium you can multi enchant some crazy powerful gear without using epic items at all.

[Biggus]

Are you intentionally avoiding Abjurant Champion? Seems like a great fit for this type of character. Duskblades were errata'd to be proficient with both simple and martial weapons, so you could also pick up Spellsword 1.

Any particular reason you're taking 7 levels of Duskblade? They don't seem to get anything very inspiring at level 7.

I might even consider some levels of Ultimate Magus to continue casting for both classes.

Edit: as for equipment, I'd agree with the_tick_rules in that it's a good idea to concentrate on nonepic items. A level 30 NPC has "only" 570,000GP as standard, less than a level 20 PC, so epic items aren't really on the table unless you're going to give them increased WBL.

[montoya]

Are you intentionally avoiding Abjurant Champion? Seems like a great fit for this type of character. Duskblades were errata'd to be proficient with both simple and martial weapons, so you could also pick up Spellsword 1.

Any particular reason you're taking 7 levels of Duskblade? They don't seem to get anything very inspiring at level 7.

I might even consider some level of Ultimate Magus to continue casting for both classes.

one of the PCs is an Abjurant Champion actually, I like the arcane channeling and the ability to wear medium armor and a shield plus the expanded wizard spell list up to level 9 spells. I don't have to use eldritch knight just wanted to give him/her some reliable melee as I want him up against the paladin (and hopefully smacks him down in their first encounter ;))

Thats fine I don't need to give epic items. Some +5's will work nicely.

[J-H]

I don't hit the 3.5 forum any more, but the title of this post caught my eye. After running 5e for a couple of years:
NPCs do not have to be built by PC rules.
You want a special ability? Great, he has it. Casting at X level? He has it. X special abilities? He has them. No need to count feats and skill points and class levels. He's not a player character.

[montoya]

I don't hit the 3.5 forum any more, but the title of this post caught my eye. After running 5e for a couple of years:
NPCs do not have to be built by PC rules.
You want a special ability? Great, he has it. Casting at X level? He has it. X special abilities? He has them. No need to count feats and skill points and class levels. He's not a player character.

I know I want to keep it somewhat fair though lol.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Can you sub in spellthief for duskblade so you can toss in Master Spellthief for some CL stacking?

[montoya]

Can you sub in spellthief for duskblade so you can toss in Master Spellthief for some CL stacking?

Yes definitely! However the Duskblade is also story related. I could decrease the levels in duskblade and sub them for spellthief.

[Biggus]

one of the PCs is an Abjurant Champion actually, I like the arcane channeling and the ability to wear medium armor and a shield plus the expanded wizard spell list up to level 9 spells. I don't have to use eldritch knight just wanted to give him/her some reliable melee as I want him up against the paladin (and hopefully smacks him down in their first encounter ;))

Thats fine I don't need to give epic items. Some +5's will work nicely.

If you want to lean into the melee, Duskblade 5 Wizard 1 Spellsword 1 Abjurant Champion 5 Eldritch Knight 18 would get you BAB +19 (+24 including EAB), full Wizard Casting at CL 24 (28 with Practised Spellcaster) and two bonus epic feats from the EK list.

Another way would be Duskblade 5 Wizard 1 Spellsword 1 Abjurant Champion 5 Eldritch Knight 8 Ultimate Magus 10, which instead of the two bonus epic feats gets your Duskblade CL up to 15 (4th-level spells). Depending on how AC and UM interact, your Wizard CL would be either 21 or 24, I'm not sure. BAB would still be +19/+24.

Edit: heavy shield isn't much use to a Duskblade unless you're going the Automatic Still Spell/Ignore Material Components route as you can't use that hand for material components or somatic components, unlike a light shield. I don't know why they bothered giving it to the DB tbh.


I don't hit the 3.5 forum any more, but the title of this post caught my eye. After running 5e for a couple of years:
NPCs do not have to be built by PC rules.
You want a special ability? Great, he has it. Casting at X level? He has it. X special abilities? He has them. No need to count feats and skill points and class levels. He's not a player character.

No, they don't have to, but a lot of DMs consider that unfair to the players. The logical extension of that line of thought is "the rules don't matter, the DM can do whatever they want" at which point you have a story, not a game.

[montoya]

If you want to lean into the melee, Duskblade 5 Wizard 1 Spellsword 1 Abjurant Champion 5 Eldritch Knight 18 would get you BAB +19 (+24 including EAB), full Wizard Casting at CL 24 (28 with Practised Spellcaster) and two bonus epic feats from the EK list.

Another way would be Duskblade 5 Wizard 1 Spellsword 1 Abjurant Champion 5 Eldritch Knight 8 Ultimate Magus 10, which instead of the two bonus epic feats gets your Duskblade CL up to 15 (4th-level spells). Depending on how AC and UM interact, your Wizard CL would be either 21 or 24, I'm not sure. BAB would still be +19/+24.

Edit: heavy shield isn't much use to a Duskblade unless you're going the Automatic Still Spell/Ignore Material Components route as you can't use that hand for material components or somatic components, unlike a light shield. I don't know why they bothered giving it to the DB tbh.



No, they don't have to, but a lot of DMs consider that unfair to the players. The logical extension of that line of thought is "the rules don't matter, the DM can do whatever they want" at which point you have a story, not a game.

I do like your first suggestion! He/she gets arcane channeling full wizard casting and near full attack. All before DM enhancements.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

An epic level spellcaster is 100% not beholden to the body or stats they were born with, so even if that person started out as a human with 3s in all his stats, by level 20, let alone epic, it's easy to remake his body however he wants and to blast all of his stats into the stratosphere and beyond.

Any tier 1 caster who has mortal frailties, including mortality, by that level wants to be that way. For some reason.

Honestly, there's no reason that they should ever die past early levels, unless they're wiped out by a more powerful spellcaster or a god. (Tautology!) And by level 21, even that's not really any sort of guarantee.

[Rleonardh]

Well if its your 1 guy vs what 4-6 players... Seems it's unfair to the bbeg.

Plus there no fair in love and war

Give him her it
Like 600 HP
Spell resistance like 45
Saves you in the 20s
Bab like 16+
Divine level 7 spells
Arcane level 9 spells
Epic damage resistance
20 in all elements resistance
Special ability: 1day
Mirror image
Greater blink
Demesion door
Heal
Greater invisibility
Fly

Things like that

[lylsyly]

Duskblade 3/Wizard 4/Abjurant Champion 5 (advancing Wizard)/Ultimate Magus 10/Legacy Champion 8 (advancing Ultimate Magus)

Channeling on a standard attack, don’t forget that duskblade armored casting only applies to duskblade spells so don’t sweat the medium armor too much that’s what abj champ is for ;-). 20th level wizard casting with 20th level duskblade casting. Plenty of gold to spend on reducing the light armor ASF for the wizard side and enchanting the $%^& out of that light armor ;-).

[redking]

How about a doppelganger 4 (4 Monstrous Humanoid RHD), factotum 1, duskblade 15, chameleon 10?

Chameleon provides many interesting possibilities (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=135.0). Because the chameleon can use spells from any class spell list, many interesting possibilities are opened to you. And note, spells cast through arcane channeling need not be arcane.