deleted

[wefoij123]

Don't need this answered anymore so deleted.

[Particle_Man]

Leadership (or the epic version for a really late game feat)?

[loky1109]

Martial Study: Martial Spirit is a great early game feat because it gives infinite out of combat healing
It doesn't. You should strike an enemy.

Landlord is good noncombat feat.

[Jervis]

It doesn't. You should strike an enemy.

Landlord is good noncombat feat.

Seconding landlord. It’s fun to mess with those rules as shortsighted and janky as they can be.

However the definition of enemy is a bit vague. All you need to do is have a sparing match using d4 saps to heal your party. Since healing lethal damage heals an equal amount of nonlethal you can potentially heal them for more than you deal. A DM is well within reason to rule against this but I don’t think anything raw stops it.

[Gruftzwerg]

However the definition of enemy is a bit vague.

really?

Source: Glossary

Enemy

A creature unfriendly to you.

Imho it is clear that this doesn't work. A sap, tree, stone, training dummy or whatsoever won't qualify for this.
You would need something like Chicken Infested (April's fool NPC Feat) to get the unlimited downtime heals.
And imho this is still combat (which disqualifies the option as requested).

_________________

Ancestral Relic:
Get your own magic weapon/armor. If loot is random or specific items hard to obtain in your DM's setting, this feat is godlike. It keeps it value even on later levels.

Sculpt Self:
The presented prestige race alteration options already have some useful stuff. But if you take the part about customized stuff to the full extend, you could literary get any magic item or spell effect you wanted as slotless item/ability.
Since XP income is higher at higher lvls, the required XP values for the abilities eventually become "cheap". Thus a nice way to get some boosts at higher lvls.

[Jervis]

It's not an enemy, it's an opponent. Anyone can be your opponent for training. Grappling's touch attack is a melee attack.

I've never seen Landlord before. Could you elaborate on the jankiness? Is it use the funds to buy stuff for the stronghold and then selling those stuff?



Yes that's a great late game feat. Not to my liking though because the DM chooses what cohorts you can choose from.

Basically landlord gives you a plot of land and money to build a castle on it. As to where that plot of land is and how you got it is left vague. I assume you pull the land from the elemental plane of convenient feat related material. Jokes aside check out Stronghold Builders Guide. You don’t actually need the feat to use the rules there but it gives you a budget to use to build said stronghold based on your level. You’ll probably need it too because those things get expensive.

Also yes you can theoretically sell your stronghold to get your money back but as a Gm I wouldn’t make that easy. Not a lot of people in the market for a castle in bandit infested lands. The actual jank comes from the stuff you can give your stronghold. As in at will planeshift and flight. Making it out of a cube of Adamantine and using some of the including magic items to make it literally invulnerable to everything to make yourself a indestructible airship you can fire spells out of. IIRC I think I found a way to make MechaGodzilla with it at some point. The rules also make very little sense cost wise. For example casting magic to make walls for free only reduces the cost instead of eliminating it.

[Beni-Kujaku]

I like the ceremony feats, especially Fell Conspiracy from Exemplar of Evil. The cost becomes pretty low at high level and the benefits are always useful.

[Jervis]

I like the ceremony feats, especially Fell Conspiracy from Exemplar of Evil. The cost becomes pretty low at high level and the benefits are always useful.

Bonus if you sing In the Dark of the Night while casting it

[Beni-Kujaku]

Bonus if you sink In the Dark of the Night while casting it

Well, it's a tabletop game, history is litterally a story told by the winners of the fight

Edit: I was mistaken, that's the wrong song, but The Story from the Count of Monte Christo Musical is also a great song for Fell Conspiracy.

[remetagross]

Yeah, Fell Conspiracy seems lots of fun, though I've never tested it in-game.

Something that I find completely hilarious, in particular with all the noncombat possibilities, but that only works at high levels (or rather, that works better and better as your level increases) is Trickery Devotion. Even a completely noncaster guy will benefit from being able to throw his perception pretty much everywhere around him and to play mischief with the local sherriff.

[ciopo]

extra spell.

You don't need to pick a combat-related spell, and it's better late game because then you can obviously pick a spell of a higher spell level

There's a lot of mileage you can get out of picking one specific spell not on your list and do shenanigans with it.

a simple example : teleport on cleric/druids
glibness
and so on for spells that don't have anything to do with combat

[Beni-Kujaku]

extra spell.

You don't need to pick a combat-related spell, and it's better late game because then you can obviously pick a spell of a higher spell level

There's a lot of mileage you can get out of picking one specific spell not on your list and do shenanigans with it.

I'm really really not sure Extra Spell gives you access to spells outside your spell list. Most effects that allow it make it pretty clear in the text. Here, it doesn't, which implies that you just learn a new spell the normal way, which is, from your list. Here, the feat even states that wizards have less use for this feat because they normally have more ease learning (scribing) a spell. If it allowed the character to choose outside their spell list, a wizard would gain the same mileage out of the feat.

[Jervis]

I'm really really not sure Extra Spell gives you access to spells outside your spell list. Most effects that allow it make it pretty clear in the text. Here, it doesn't, which implies that you just learn a new spell the normal way, which is, from your list. Here, the feat even states that wizards have less use for this feat because they normally have more ease learning (scribing) a spell. If it allowed the character to choose outside their spell list, a wizard would gain the same mileage out of the feat.

TBF complete arcane specifically calls it out as useful for getting spells you can’t research, which is the typical way to get off list spells without class features. (Referencing new spell research here in place of just using downtime to get a wizard spell) Also for what it’s worth the psionic version does allow you to grab spells off list.

[nedz]

TBF complete arcane specifically calls it out as useful for getting spells you can’t research, which is the typical way to get off list spells without class features. (Referencing new spell research here in place of just using downtime to get a wizard spell) Also for what it’s worth the psionic version does allow you to grab spells off list.

Yeah, Extra spell is kind of vague to the point of being almost dysfunctional — at least in the sense that you have to house-rule it.

It's a good feat to use at low level if the retraining rules are in play: you simply retrain it into a new, higher level, spell every couple of levels. Ideally you would walk this up a chain — YMMV.

As to the OP: the feat you take at level 15 to open your final PrC. Now this may be a combat feat, but that's not the reason you are taking it.

[Gorthawar]

I'm a fan of dark stalker.

[Harrow]

All of the strikes in the devoted spirit discipline specify that you have to hit enemies, with fairly specific and hard-to-cheese requirements. But, the devoted spirit stance Martial Spirit lacks that clause. It does imply that there was supposed to be one, stating that you can change the target of your healing every time you hit an "opponent". However, "imply" is all that it does. It doesn't actually state any requirement on what has to be hit for the healing to trigger. By RAW, you could pass out high-fives or punch walls or whatever you pleased, assuming your DM didn't house-rule it. Which many would, so you should bring up the discussion around this healing solution with your DM before you actually try using it in a game.

Back on topic, Incarnum feels like it should be a gold-mine for this. Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles) gives you +4 to Use Magic Device, Spellcraft, and Decipher Script on top of allowing you to use them untrained. UMD in particular has some good out-of-combat uses, particularly if you aren't a spellcaster and don't have native access to spells. Then there's Shape Soulmeld (Blink Shirt) which grants unlimited use, standard action Dimension Door with a 10 ft per use range limit. Shape Soulmeld (Dissolving Spittle) gives an unlimited use acid-based attack as a standard action. It's not as good at mining through problematic doors and walls as an adamantine pick and some ranks in profession (miner), but, if you can't afford the skill ranks (or being a miner isn't a good thematic option for your character) then Dissolving Spittle is a good substitute. All of the options I've listed get even better if you grab up other feats to get some essentia points to slot into your soulmelds.

[Jervis]

All of the strikes in the devoted spirit discipline specify that you have to hit enemies, with fairly specific and hard-to-cheese requirements. But, the devoted spirit stance Martial Spirit lacks that clause. It does imply that there was supposed to be one, stating that you can change the target of your healing every time you hit an "opponent". However, "imply" is all that it does. It doesn't actually state any requirement on what has to be hit for the healing to trigger. By RAW, you could pass out high-fives or punch walls or whatever you pleased, assuming your DM didn't house-rule it. Which many would, so you should bring up the discussion around this healing solution with your DM before you actually try using it in a game.

Back on topic, Incarnum feels like it should be a gold-mine for this. Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles) gives you +4 to Use Magic Device, Spellcraft, and Decipher Script on top of allowing you to use them untrained. UMD in particular has some good out-of-combat uses, particularly if you aren't a spellcaster and don't have native access to spells. Then there's Shape Soulmeld (Blink Shirt) which grants unlimited use, standard action Dimension Door with a 10 ft per use range limit. Shape Soulmeld (Dissolving Spittle) gives an unlimited use acid-based attack as a standard action. It's not as good at mining through problematic doors and walls as an adamantine pick and some ranks in profession (miner), but, if you can't afford the skill ranks (or being a miner isn't a good thematic option for your character) then Dissolving Spittle is a good substitute. All of the options I've listed get even better if you grab up other feats to get some essentia points to slot into your soulmelds.

Wouldn’t Mountain Hammer be better for getting through doors via martial training (or whatever it’s called, I can never remember the tome of battle stuff)?

[Harrow]

Wouldn’t Mountain Hammer be better for getting through doors via martial training (or whatever it’s called, I can never remember the tome of battle stuff)?

Depends on what the door is made of. Dissolving Spittle is a standard action with no cooldown. Without a maneuver recovery method, Mountain Hammer is a standard action with a 5 minute cooldown. If the material you're trying to mine through has a hardness or acid resistance that means Dissolving Spittle literally won't work at all, Mountain Hammer wins. If you already have a level in Warblade or, if you also picked up Adaptive Style, Swordsage, then Mountain Hammer looks a lot better.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Psicrystal Affinity actually works well for this, since psicrystals only get more powerful and versatile as you gain levels, and psicrystals have all sorts of out-of-combat uses (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?147603-Best-things-to-do-with-a-psicrystal) (as well as lots of in-combat ones).

I was also going to mention Leadership (already been done), Ancestral Relic (already been done), and Landlord (already been done), especially if you apply Landlord funds to the stronghold you are using as your Ancestral Relic, but it's already been done.

[Jervis]

Psicrystal Affinity actually works well for this, since psicrystals only get more powerful and versatile as you gain levels, and psicrystals have all sorts of out-of-combat uses (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?147603-Best-things-to-do-with-a-psicrystal) (as well as lots of in-combat ones).

I was also going to mention Leadership (already been done), Ancestral Relic (already been done), and Landlord (already been done), especially if you apply Landlord funds to the stronghold you are using as your Ancestral Relic, but it's already been done.

Wait, apply the funds for what to your what now? I knew landlord was a usable but how do you make a stronghold a ancestoral relic? What nonsense can you get from that?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Wait, apply the funds for what to your what now? I knew landlord was a usable but how do you make a stronghold a ancestoral relic? What nonsense can you get from that?Any fortified building or space could count as a stronghold, and there are a number of magic items that fit that definition, whether in their normal form or because they can transform into one (Daern's instant fortress, a psychoactive skin of proteus, or an enveloping pit for three examples). Far as I know, you can enhance a stronghold with magic, and no restrictions are in place to keep from enhancing a stronghold item as a magic item, so feel free to abuse it as far as the DM will let you.

[Jervis]

Any fortified building or space could count as a stronghold, and there are a number of magic items that fit that definition, whether in their normal form or because they can transform into one (Daern's instant fortress, a psychoactive skin of proteus, or an enveloping pit for three examples). Far as I know, you can enhance a stronghold with magic, and no restrictions are in place to keep from enhancing a stronghold item as a magic item, so feel free to abuse it as far as the DM will let you.

Ah fair point. I think I abused the enclosed space part for the mecha-Godzilla thing. I didn’t think of the magic items that could count.

[ben-zayb]

For artificers and other crafters, there's a whole host of crafting-related feats that reduces time, xp, and/or resources, which should scale into late game as magic item gets more expensive.

Able Learner should be great at all levels of play.

Martial Spirit to grab Shadow Jaunt or Shadow Stride would be a decent way to have purely nonmagical short-range teleportation. You can buy a Shadow Gloves instead of wasting a feat, but that then ties the maneuver to a magic item and all that entails.

Tomb-Tainted Soul is also useful at most levels of play as long as you have a way to consistently receive negative energy damage. Cheese it with black sand for an easy source of constant out-of-combat healing.

Mindsight and Lifesense are still pretty useful even outside of combat.

[Jervis]

For artificers and other crafters, there's a whole host of crafting-related feats that reduces time, xp, and/or resources, which should scale into late game as magic item gets more expensive.

Able Learner should be great at all levels of play.

Martial Spirit to grab Shadow Jaunt or Shadow Stride would be a decent way to have purely nonmagical short-range teleportation. You can buy a Shadow Gloves instead of wasting a feat, but that then ties the maneuver to a magic item and all that entails.

Tomb-Tainted Soul is also useful at most levels of play as long as you have a way to consistently receive negative energy damage. Cheese it with black sand for an easy source of constant out-of-combat healing.

Mindsight and Lifesense are still pretty useful even outside of combat.

I disagree on able learner, it’s best taken at 1. It’s value decreases a lot the later you take it.

Also I forgot to mention Silvertongue earlier. DC 25 diplomacy Check to cast good hope for free, at high levels thats useful if you’ve invested at all. Also lets you use a full round action to confuse a creature with a contested skill check.

[Jay R]

For artificers and other crafters, there's a whole host of crafting-related feats that reduces time, xp, and/or resources, which should scale into late game as magic item gets more expensive.

Care to tell us what they are?

[Troacctid]

Here's a few! Test your knowledge—how many of these did you already know about?

Ancestral Relic
Animal Devotion
Animal Friends
Aquatic Breath
Arcane Disciple
Bind Vestige
Bind Vestige, Improved
Born Under the Crescent Moon
Born Under the New Moon
Borne Aloft
Celestial Familiar
Celestial Scion
Channel Charge
Countenance of the Mage
Craft Wondrous Item
Dark Speech
Darkness Familiar
Dimensional Jaunt
Dimensional Reach
Disintegration Finesse
Dragon Cohort
Dragon Familiar
Dragon Wings
Dragon Wings, Improved
Dragonmark Adept
Dragonmark Prodigy
Dragonmark Visionary
Epic Destiny
Extra Invocation
Face-Changer
Fell Conspiracy
Fey Legacy
Fey Presence
Fiendish Legacy
Fiendish Presence
Godsight
Graveborn
Great Leader
Greater Aberrant Dragonmark
Greater Dragonmark
Hardened Criminal
Improved Familiar
Improved Speak Without Sound
Insightful
Investigate
Item Familiar
Kalashtar Mindlink
Leadership
Lesser Aberrant Dragonmark
Lesser Dragonmark
Lifesense
Magic Sensitive
Martial Stance
Martial Study
Mercantile Background
Mindsight
Minor Shapeshift
Night Haunt
Nymph's Kiss
Obtain Familiar
Open Greater Chakra
Open Heart Chakra
Open Least Chakra
Open Lesser Chakra
Open Soul Chakra
Outsider Wings
Planar Familiar
Practiced Binder
Proteus
Psymbiot
Sculpt Self
Shape Soulmeld
Silver Tongue
Spawn of the Dark Prince
Starspawn
Strength Devotion
Summon Elemental
Tested
Touch of Captivation
Touchstone
Trickery Devotion
True Believer
Undead Leadership
Unlock Dragonmark
Vatic Gaze
Wand Bonding
Water Devotion
Well Traveled

[nedz]

Able Learner should be great at all levels of play.


I disagree on able learner, it’s best taken at 1. It’s value decreases a lot the later you take it.

Able Learner can only be taken at 1st level.