Any of you ever actually played a CA ninja?

[Eladrinblade]

I've seen scout and spellthieves played before, but never a ninja. I always thought it was a neat class, but a bit too limited to be a very good choice. If you've played one, I'd like to hear about it or at least see the build.

[Velaryon]

I have, although it has been many years and I'd have to look to find the character sheet. I went with Mountain Spiritfolk because of the aesthetic and the bonuses to Jump.

The characters in that campaign were not at all optimized (I think our caster was a drow blaster wizard), so I hung in there just fine, even though I dual-wielded wakizashi. I was either single-classed or might have taken a 1-level Fighter dip, I don't remember. Either way, I'm pretty sure we only played up to level 7 or 8.

Highlight of the game was when I leapt from a tower onto the back of a red dragon, ran up its back to its head, and stuck a pair of Immovable Rods up its nostrils.

[Maat Mons]

I've considered using a single level of it on characters that would otherwise use a single level of Rogue. Basically, you get +2 Will saves (since you can't spend your ki points) and Wisdom to AC when unarmored, in exchange for losing effectiveness against flanked enemies and getting fewer skill points.

Ninja 1 / Cloistered Cleric X with Able Learner should be decent. If your DM is permissive, you could instead go Ninja 1 / Archivist or Wizard X with Able Learner and Carmendine Monk. The permissive part is allowing Carmendine Monk to apply to Ninja's AC bonus instead of Monk's.

[Telok]

Knew a guy who played a few. Mostly for the vanish & stab aspect, never did anything out of combat. It, ah, had issues with anything capable of seeing or otherwise detecting invis as well as the usual sneak attack limits. Like, he was 99% shut down by anyone with see invis and had issues with blindsense or blindsight. Also got screwed a few times by etherial people/wards.

First one ran out of ki in a fight & got full attack creamed by a fighter with 25% fortification armor that didn't fall dead at the right time. Second died when the local etherial had solid stuff in it and he effectively plane shift teleported into a few hundred feet of etherial rock.

[Zombimode]

I have used the Ninja quite effectively from both sides of the screen.

My experiences as playing a ninja have been comparable to other "rogue-ish" characters. The ninja provides some nice tools to do some cool rogue stunts out of the box. Ghost Step and its enhancement that turns you ethereal later on is unsurprisingly the star of the game. Nothing you couldn't do with other classes but you've usually include some spellcasting for that. Straight Ninja on the other hand works quite well. The downside of Sudden Strike that it does not trigger on flanked alone IS noticeable - but NOT a deal breaker. You know how the ability works. You make build and tactical decisions accordingly. In my case I had the impression that my Ninja was much more self-reliant than other rogue-types. You could drop the character alone in any situation and he would flip out and kill people.


On the GM's side: oh boy.... Ninjas are great!
I've so far used single classed ninja NPCs at two occasion - both times with great success.

The first was a lone boss-type enemy. The second time was straight out-of-the-book Skather with his two hobgoblin warcaster allies in Red Hand of Doom.
The self-reliance that I had observed as a player was exactly key for these encounters. Ghost Step again is the star.
Ghost Step also makes ninjas quite flashy - which helps the encounter to stand out.

Picture this: in full ninja-mode (that is: the ninja activates Ghost Step each round) the ninja is invisible almost the entire time attacking from invisibily without breaking it. It is actually more flashy then Improved Invisibily because the ninja will "flicker" - the short moment between Ghost Step of the last round expires and activation in the current round - which adds to the encounters visual impression and adds possible interactions.


One thing I should mention though: in all three cases the ninjas Ki-Pool was increased to double whatever the base-number is (+ Stat as usual). Under that change at least the Ninja gets a seal of approval from me; both as its use as a player class as well as a class for NPC enemies.

Edit: ok to be a bit more specific: for player characters I would rate it "3 from 5 stars. Works for the intended role if you put in some effort". As a GM I would rate it "4 from 5 stars. Works great for self-reliant rogue-type enemies and makes for a memorable ecounters".

[DivineOnTheMind]

I agree that it's a great class for NPCs and baddies. I think it has a lot in common with Shadowcaster: it can do some cool and memorable things, but is so stymied by per-day uses that I'd be pessimistic to use it for a player character.

I'm using it a lot in a game now to spice up some spooky goblin mooks for a level 5ish party, and it's been a really easy way to add some flavor to sneaky hit-and-runners.

I only remember playing with a Ninja in the party once, which was a low-level archery build. It seemed to hold up well, and I remember the super-casual/non-optimizer group talking about the class like it was on the strong side of the power spectrum.

[Eladrinblade]

That's about what I figured; people have dabbled with them as players but no big favorite main characters. Better for DMs or special campaigns.

Thanks for the replies, folks.

[Biggus]

had issues with blindsense or blindsight

The Darkstalker Feat (LoM) would have helped a lot with that.

[Seward]

Never played one. Did see one played reasonably well once in the closing days of Living Greyhawk. If you want to try to do a ranged-rogue it worked better than most attempts to do it with rogue. Not that it is great, but if you are basically Haley, you don't get flanking sneak attack anyway, so you rely on getting surprise, shooting, winning initiative, full attacking. Ghost step is for when you need to do something after that. The guy I saw did reasonably well at moving to cover, hiding, shooting with sneak attack, only using ghost step when that wasn't practical. On the noncombat front, it can be handy for your scout to be able to do ninja tricks, but the ki pool was so small it was usually reserved for combat.

Part of what made it work is this ninja had 14 strength, composite bow (from elf) and rapid shot, which meant there was some damage potential even with only 1 sneak attack a round, and no need to use ghost step if fighting weaker opposition.

I don't think it would have scaled especially well past level 6-8, but then in my experience most rogues don't do that well either after that without builds optimized for many attacks+party assistance to set it up.

Agree with earlier poster that the limited ki pool makes this stronger on a NPC.

[Telok]

The Darkstalker Feat (LoM) would have helped a lot with that.

Heh, what part of "single class ninja ran out of ki mid fight & got 1-round splattered by an npc warrior" screamed out 'book diving optimizer'? Though to be fair I didn't say that was the 7-9 level ninja splat.

It was also the same chap who found the uttercold assault necro build online and managed to send the dragon zombie off to "solo" a couple drow clerics while he hid invis & buffed for 3 rounds before trying to run around vampritic touching enemies. Another time he pulled a lever they'd been told was a nasty deathtrap (in a high power magic academy, trap meant to kill wizards & clerics & demons) just to see what it did (it killed him in phase 2 of 5 or 7 phases).

[Gnaeus]

I've used it in gestalt builds that limit to T4 or 5. It has a lot to offer the right other side of gestalt.