Brainstorming for Psionic/ToB PrCs

[Maat Mons]

A little bit ago, someone posted a thread asking to be directed to homebrew prestige classes that progress both manifesting and maneuver use. Shockingly, I couldn't track down any. This feels like a big enough niche for several prestige classes, so a complete lack of any can't be allowed to stand.

Who wants to help throw ideas at the wall?



Psychokinetic Adept:

Psionic/ToB PrC
Must be able to manifest at least 1 power with “Energy” in the name
Must know at least one maneuver with an energy descriptor
Gain ability to change type of energy damage dealt by maneuver (cold, electricity, fire, sonic)

Maneuver gains benefits based on type chosen

cold: +1 damage/die, ref save becomes fort save (if applicable)
electricity: +2 save DC
fire: +1 damage/die
sonic: -1 damage/die, but ignores hardness if used on an object





Name?

Psionic/ToB PrC
Must be able to manifest power that gives natural weapon
Must know a Tiger Claw maneuver
Bonuses when using natural weapons

Enhancement bonus?
Extra benefits when manifesting Metaphysical Claw?

Rend
pounce
Absorb weapons and apply their magical abilities to your natural weapons?
When using maneuver that normally only allows one attack, attack once with each natural weapon?

Benefit of maneuver only applied to one of the attacks?

Can choose to treat claws as manufactured weapons for purpose of attack routine?

Make iterative attacks with “main hand” claw
Make iterative attacks with “off-hand” claw as if two-weapon fighting
Can choose to treat only one claw a manufactured, to avoid two-weapon fighting penalties, but can’t then gain iterative attacks with other claw




Name?

Psionic/ToB PrC
Must be able to manifest Astral Construct
Bonuses when fighting together with your Astral Construct?



Name?

Psionic/ToB PrC
Must be able to manifest Clarisentience power
Precognition-themed bonuses in combat
Evasion
Uncanny dodge/improved uncanny dodge
Apply manifesting ability score to AC when lightly armored?
Bonuses only apply when psionically focused?
Gain different bonuses for expending focus?



Name?

Psionic/ToB PrC
Must have Improved Unarmed Strike
Stacks for Flurry of Blows progression, but doesn’t give Flurry of Blows if you don’t already have it
Stacks for Monk unarmed damage, or gives unarmed damage as a Monk of your PrC level
Can channel power points into unarmed strikes a if they were deep crystal weapons
Purity of Body?
Diamond Body?
Timeless Body?
Ki Strike?
Fast Movement?
Evasion? (upgrade to Improved if you already have Evasion)



Name?

Psionic/ToB PrC
Progress Sneak Attack et al., a la Unseen Seer?
Free attack after teleport?



Name?

Psionic/ToB PrC
Must know Touch of Health power?
Must know a power that heals HP?
Must know a Devoted Spirit maneuver
Gain other powers from Life mantle for free?

Free other powers if you already know Life mantle powers

Gain access to Life mantle if you don’t already have it?

Gain Life mantle powers as free extra powers known (when you can access powers of that level) if you already have Life mantle

If this would give you a power you already have, instead gain free power known (of equal or lower level) from your class list


Increase healing done by Devoted Spirit maneuvers
Spend power points when healing someone (with psionics or maneuvers) to remove condition?
Enhance Touch of Health power to not suck?

Heal 1d8+level (max +5)
Spend 2pp for +1d8 and +5 to max level added
Spend 8pp to heal all in area




Name?

Psionic/ToB PrC
Must have Wild Surge class feature
Must have Psychic Enervation class feature
+1 Wild Surge at levels 1, 5, 10
can expend readied maneuver as immediate action to not be dazed by Psychic Enervation?

also negates 1 power point per maneuver level of lost power points
can expend multiple maneuvers, add together total levels to determine lost power points negated

just make a feat that changes Psychic Enervation to not inflict Daze?

require that feat as a prerequisite

recover maneuvers whenever Psychic Enervation kicks in?

number of maneuvers recovered equals bonus from triggering Wild Surge
if implementing this, don't also do thing with expending maneuvers to eliminate power point cost from Psychic Enervation




Existing psionic PrCs to rework into Psionic/ToB PrCs

Elocater
Psionic Fist/Fist of Zuoken/Zerth Cenobite
Slayer
War Mind
Psychic Weapon Master
Pyrokineticist
Sangehirn



Other Ideas

Expend maneuver as part of manifesting power to supply power points equal to maneuver level?
Expend power points equal to level of maneuver to initiate even if expended/not readied/not granted?

[Tzardok]

Name?

Psionic/ToB PrC
Must be able to manifest power that gives natural weapon
Must know a Tiger Claw maneuver
Bonuses when using natural weapons

Enhancement bonus?
Extra benefits when manifesting Metaphysical Claw?

Rend
pounce
Absorb weapons and apply their magical abilities to your natural weapons?
When using maneuver that normally only allows one attack, attack once with each natural weapon?

Benefit of maneuver only applied to one of the attacks?

Can choose to treat claws as manufactured weapons for purpose of attack routine?

Make iterative attacks with “main hand” claw
Make iterative attacks with “off-hand” claw as if two-weapon fighting
Can choose to treat only one claw a manufactured, to avoid two-weapon fighting penalties, but can’t then gain iterative attacks with other claw




This class needs something like atavism in its name. Atavistic Warrior?


Name?

Psionic/ToB PrC
Must be able to manifest Astral Construct
Bonuses when fighting together with your Astral Construct?


Could be flanking focused. Maybe a specialization of Desert Wind maneuvers? A combination of Distracting EMber and Astral Construct?


Name?

Psionic/ToB PrC
Must be able to manifest Clarisentience power
Precognition-themed bonuses in combat
Evasion
Uncanny dodge/improved uncanny dodge
Apply manifesting ability score to AC when lightly armored?
Bonuses only apply when psionically focused?
Gain different bonuses for expending focus?



Crystal-Clear Champion. Uses Diamond Mind maneuvers. Can automatically try to build a psionic focus when succesfully using a Diamond Mind counter. Can expend psionic focus to roll Concentration instead of any save. Hmm...

[Morphic tide]

So, in order:

Psychokinetic Adept
Energy Emanation comes to mind for a Power to key off of, being 2nd-level and essentially locked to melee. Deals its damage at the start of each round in a 5 ft. "emanation". Not sure if it's end your turn next to or start their turn next to. Would streamline it by being able to have it be that you can apply Energy Emanation damage to your Maneuvers, then build on that premise.

Natural Attack+Tiger Claw PRC
Psionic Lion's Charge is a 2nd level Power (4th level PsyWar), and Pouncing Charge is a 5th-level Strike (IL 11), so Pounce as a class feature would be redundant. Hustle, Painful Strikes, or Tail of the Dragon would work for PsyWar 4 intended entry with a specific Power, otherwise Claws of the Beast with 2nd-level Powers. Don't forget to scale Bite of the Wolf, that's PsyWar level rather than augment.

Astral Construct PRC
Tactics of the Wolf, a 3rd-level White Raven stance, gives a 1/2 IL damage boost to allies flanking with you, which seems to be exactly the kind of thing you'd want. Takes IL 5, so perhaps design requirements for Warblade 3/Shaper 2/Warblade+1 to use it as a prerequisite, hitting the usual Theurge point. Possibly integrate Psicrystals for a long-lasting thing to boost.

Clairsentience PRC
As already mentioned, Diamond Mind would be the natural fit. I'd emphasize the rarely-used "take 15 on Concentration" function of Psionic Focus with Instant Cl and work more with the "Precognitive Edge" of the Precognition power. Which is wildly different from the short-duration Insight buff of Offensive and Defensive Precognition. Extra Augmentation options are not unheard of.

Unarmed Strike PRC
Give flat AC bonus, Unarmed Strike damage, and Flurry of Blows as a Monk based on IL, requiring Superior Unarmed Strike, Stone Power, and Thicken Skin. Have the PRC focus on making a Stone Dragon Unarmed Swordsage Tashalatora work, which means low mobility, forcing extra attacks into the Strikes, and silly amounts of raw soak. Possibly give Stone Power as a general Good Thing.

Sneak Attack+Teleporting PRC
Require +3d6 Sneak Attack so Assassin's Stance alone isn't enough, as well as Psychic Renewal, a Maneuver with the Teleportation tag, and a Power with the Teleportation tag. I'd go with 10 levels, with Control Light as a bonus Power/PLA at 1st, stealth bonuses after teleporting, bonuses to Strikes and Touch Powers when Sneak Attack applies, low-light Hide in Plain Sight enabled by Control Light and I think some things from Shadow Hand, and Shadow Pounce (full attack after teleport, absurdly powerful feature on Telflammar Shadowlord and Crinti Shadow Marauder) at 10th.

Healing PRC
I'd go with Focused Shield (+1 increase to a shield's AC when Psionically Focused), Steely Resolve, Shield Block (2nd-level Devoted Spirit counter to give your shield bonus+4 to an adjacent ally), and Empathic Transfer as the "main" prerequisites, with shield bonuses and self-healing because combat healing is garbage so just eat all the damage yourself and recover later.

Wilder PRC
Postpone Enervation, a Metapsionic feat, and Blade Meditation (Iron Heart) for the prerequisites, which means Wild Surge +2, BAB +4, and an Iron Heart Maneuver. Benefits based on getting good-scaling weapon-facing Powers for Wild Surge and attack volume to leverage Wild Surge and Surging Euphoria scaling, plus eventually turning the Daze into Staggered so it can be Surged (as an Extraordinary Daze, it normally isn't). Note that Enervation PP loss is based on Wilder level, so a PRC doesn't increase it unless you specifically include text to that effect.

Expend Maneuver for PP
Would need to be in a PRC somewhere to be at all balanceable, otherwise Adaptive Style becomes an infinite PP battery.

Expend PP for Maneuver
That's Psychic Renewal, Swift Action to expend Psionic Focus and spend PP equal to level of Maneuver you want to recover.

[JoshuaZ]

Minor note: At least three psionic/ToB PrCs exist from homebrew here. Jadewind Blademaster (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=10887776&postcount=3), Preserver of Future Blades (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?139580-Death-and-the-Past-or-the-Mind-and-the-Future-(2-ToB-PrCs)), and the Dark Mind (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?145817-Two-Psionic-Martial-PrCs).

[Jervis]

Ok hear me out.

A PRC that’s exclusive to Warforged. It requires 2nd level powers, 2nd level maneuvers, 2nd level spells, and least invocations. It progresses Warblade, Warmind, Warlock, and Warmage.

Call it something like WAAAAAARRR!!!!

[Morphic tide]

Ok hear me out.

A PRC that’s exclusive to Warforged. It requires 2nd level powers, 2nd level maneuvers, 2nd level spells, and least invocations. It progresses Warblade, Warmind, Warlock, and Warmage.

Call it something like WAAAAAARRR!!!!

The issue that comes up here is that the progressions are extremely awkwardly staggered. The "expected" entry appears to be Warmage 4/Warblade 1/War Mind 4/Warlock 1, making your highest output something from a 9th-level PRC accelerating a canned gish that is at this point badly aping 4th level of a different canned Gish. There's some value from synergies, but you end up more MAD than a Paladin because you need more investment in Wisdom, Charisma, and Strength to make up for the BAB loss and ability penalties and the fact you have Powers and a higher spell progression demanding the scores to use the abilities at all.

War Mind is actually a very good inclusion here because, if I recall correctly, as a full BAB PRC it's full IL, so this being 11th-20th gets to IL 17 for an attainable 9th, and its progression is a similar "narrow slice" that would naturally "cut off" at 15th. Giving 6/10 Manifesting and another "virtual" level or two worth (or an Epic War Mind progression) for 6ths would bring its comparison point to PsyWar 16. Transparency shenanigans have me interested in the possibility of it being 12/10 Arcane progression, as Warlock and Warmage could actually be interchangeably progressed.

However, it must be noted that PRCs based on other PRCs are an extreme rarity for good reason, and getting specific about four input classes with different subsystems is quite the ridiculous overboard. So the prerequisite should be accessible by more than just the exact "Lots Of War" pun build, even as its' intentionally designed around those classes. Shatter and Whirling Blade show up on the Bard list, Scorching Ray shows up on the Duskblade list, 2nd level spell for all of them, though that's Duskblade 5 as opposed to 4th level for the others. Stone Dragon is available to all three Marital Adept classes, Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind are shared with Swordsage, and White Raven is shared with Crusader. Not sure what overlaps there are for Invocations.

[pi4t]

In addition to JoshuaZ's suggestions above, the Pathfinder adaptation of ToB has a prestige class progressing both manifesting and maneuvers: the Awakened Blade (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Awakened_Blade). It also comes with a discipline (Sleeping Goddess) which is designed to work with manifesting, and allows power points to be spend to augment maneuvers. Technically, as I mentioned, it's for a different system, but it should be pretty backwards-compatible. If you're adapting to 3.5, here are some notes:

First, you should add 3 to all the skill prerequisites for the class, and expand the class skill list a bit - in Pathfinder, you're capped at (level) ranks instead of (level)+3, and prestige classes inherit the class skills of the base classes you took earlier in your career so they don't need to be given any of their own.

Secondly, you should either add in the prerequisite powers known to the game, or change those prerequisites.

Thirdly, if you use the Sleeping Goddess/Riven Hourglass disciplines too (which I recommend) you'll need to know what their associated weapons are. The Pathfinder adaptation just lists a handful of "weapon groups". To see which weapons are in which group, see here (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/Core-classes/Fighter/#TOC-Weapon-Training-Ex-).

Finally, ignore the Path of the Warrior ability, since it advances class features that don't exist in 3.5.