[3.5e] Advice Wanted: Level 11 Scout Progression & Gear

[godros]

Greetings all,

TL;DR at the end.

I accidentally posted this to the General Roleplaying subforum, somehow. I've reached out to those moderators to see if they could remove that post. If this cross posting is not allowed, please accept my apologies.

I am looking for advice as to how to min/max my Scout Archer. I am playing in a Homebrew Campaign Setting based on the 3.5 rule set. Pretty much any source book is on the table, even some 3.0 books are permissible, at the DM’s discretion. Alternative sources such as Unearthed Arcana and Dragon Magazines are not expressly prohibited, but they are subject to DM approval. There are some arbitrary class restrictions in this campaign due to the nature of the setting and the DM’s decisions.

My character is Godros Fernvale the Fox. He is a Wild Elf and his class is Scout. Having liberated a major metropolitan city from corrupt rule, we are being allowed a 1yr time skip and have all just been awarded level 12. As it stands, Godros has 11 levels in Scout and the 12th level has not yet been decided, but I am heavily leaning towards Scout. I’ve already got 11 levels there, I don’t see any reason to multi-class. Though I am not by any means opposed to multi-classing or Prestige Classing, I just haven’t found something that resonates with the character. But, at the end of the day, what I’m really looking to do is increase my Base Attack Bonus so that I can hit things more consistently. My damage numbers seem fine so far, but I feel like I miss on my attack rolls far too often and it’s disappointing. I’m also interested in finding ways to allow Godros to move 20ft in a turn and still get to use a Full Attack.

Story-wise, the character has been a mostly peaceful tracker sort who is intent on uniting the elven tribes and promoting peace, harmony, and cooperation between the elves, orcs, raptorans, and other intelligent races on the continent.

I have served as the party’s tracker/scout and the source of ranged physical damage, constantly seeking a height advantage to proc Skirmish, Improved Skirmish, and the Piercer Cloak. I typically ride a horse named Trillwing when we’re on the road, and quickly dismount when we have to fight.

With the time-skip and level up, we are also being afforded the opportunity to re-gear our characters.

It is also important to note that we have some interesting “boons” from the deities of the campaign. My character has been awarded the boon of the Bat, the Swallow, the Fox, and the Octopus.

Bat - Once per day, you may unleash a sonic ray at a target, dealing 1d6 damage/2 levels to creatures and objects it hits. Also gain increasing bonus to Listen skill and become sensitive to subsonic sound.

Swallow - Once per day, gain the ability to rapidly ascend up to 10 ft. per level into the air and hover there for a turn. After this turn, descend up to twice the distance ascended at a rate of 60ft. per turn, with as much as a 5 ft. adjustment laterally for each 60 ft. Also gain an increasing bonus to Survival skill.

Fox - Call upon a foxwoman to negotiate a service. Also gain increasing bonus to Sense Motive skill.

Octopus - Fusion for 1 round + 1 round/5 levels. Take better of both participant's stats. Can only fuse with other Godblessed. Also gain increasing bonus to Decipher Script skill.
** Octopus boon characters in the party include a Knight 9/Ru’athar 3 and a Monk 4/Cleric 4/Shadow Dancer 4. We can all fuse together as 3-into-1, or we can combine any 2 characters for the fusion.

The rest of the party includes a fireball Wu Jen, a trader-Cleric with dual pistols, and a kobold Artificer who wants to blow up the sun (he’s really a freakin’ great character lol).

Now, I do understand that my character has NOT been min/maxed thus far. I have asked the DM and I am unable to retrain the character. That is fine, even if I don’t fully agree with the decision, I will abide by it. This is a long-running group of friends of mine and this is not the first time I have had a differing opinion. At the core of it all, I just enjoy hanging out and playing the game with them.

Anyway, here are the details regarding Godros Fernvale the Fox:

Class: Scout 11

Ability Scores:
STR: 12
DEX: 18
CON: 13
INT: 15
WIS: 13
CHA: 12

** I have already applied the level 12 Ability Score Increase to my DEX score.

Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Quick Reconnoiter
Track
Dodge
Improved Skirmish
** Level 12 Feat is undecided as of yet.

Equipment:
+1 Darkwood Elvencraft Mighty Composite Longbow (+1), equipped with Alchemical Silver close-fighting blades
Starmetal Tomahawk (qty: 2)
Masterwork Chain Vest with Forestwarden Shroud
Piercer Cloak
Watch Lamp
Boots of Agile Leaping
Handy Haversack
Efficient Quiver (typically stocked with a mix of Steel Arrows, Cold Iron Arrows, Alchemical Silver Arrows, and Adamantine Arrows)
Bracers of Wind
Gauntlets of Extended Range
Safewing Emblem

Most Commonly Used Skills:
Hide: +16 bonus (13 ranks)
Jump: +13 bonus (10 ranks)
Knowledge (Nature): +10 bonus (8 ranks)
Listen: +13 bonus (12 ranks)
Move Silently: +16 bonus (13 ranks)
Ride: +8 bonus (4 ranks)
Spot: +10 bonus (9 ranks)
Survival: +14 bonus (13 ranks)
Tumble: +11 bonus (8 ranks)

So what I’m thinking is take Scout 12, and get some new gear. I’m not completely sure as to what gear I would like to equip Godros with, however. I’m currently considering adding the Blindsighted property to my existing bow. I’m also looking at:

Keep the Piercer Cloak
Bracers of Archer, Greater, with a +4 Dex enchantment
Mithral Armor
Foxhide Armor
Armor of the Unending Hunt
Celestial Armor
Combining Skirmisher Boots, Boots of Agile Leaping, and Boots of Striding and Springing
Belt of Battle

I have 88,000 gold to use for gear, per the Character Wealth by Level chart.

Sorry for the wall of text. Any thoughts/advice/direction you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I look forward to reading your replies.

TL;DR: looking for advice as to what class to take for level 12 and what gear to purchase to help my tracker/scout/archer be more useful and land hits more consistently in combat while maximizing damage with Skirmish & Improved Skirmish & (maybe) Piercer Cloak height advantage

[Doctor Despair]

Consider taking a level in Ranger for the Swift Hunter feat from Complete Scoundrel.

You have applied the hit-and-run tactics learned from scouting to your strong hunting abilities.

Prerequisite
Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC, Favored Enemy,

Benefit
Your ranger and scout levels stack for the purpose of determining the extra damage and bonus to Armor Class granted when skirmishing. For example, a 4th-level scout/1st-level ranger would deal an extra 2d6 points of damage and gain a +1 competence bonus to AC when skirmishing, as if she were a 5th-level scout. Your ranger and scout levels also stack for the purpose of determining when you select additional favored enemies, as well as the total bonus granted against your favored enemies. For example, a 4th-level scout/1st-level ranger would have two favored enemies and could allocate an extra +2 bonus against one of those favored enemies, as if she were a 5th-level ranger. In addition, your skirmish extra damage applies against any creature you have selected as a favored enemy, even if it is normally immune to extra damage from critical hits or skirmish attacks.

Special
A scout can select Swift Hunter as one of her scout bonus feats (Complete Adventurer 13).

Travel Devotion, another feat, lets you have extra move actions for a while.

If you have Quick Reconnoiter, consider Keen Eared Scout

[ciopo]

I'm seconding ranger and swift ambusher.

Some other random thoughts :

How does your GM feel about psionics? have you probed about hiring the services of a psion for a manifesting of psychic reformation?, in other words "retraining but with different means" , it would cost you 280gp+250gp for each level you would reform. But you know your GM best and it might be best you let go of retraining past levels.


In Dragonlance:Age of mortals there is a feat that allows you to use an extra move or standard action some times per day, it's called heroic surge I believe, should be something live one use per day per 4 characters level or thereabouts.

What are your friends playing? if there is anyone with access to greater magic weapon, 9000gp for a 3rd level pearl of power sets you for life in regard to weapon enhancement : just ask them if they could prepare and use greater magic weapon on your bow. Bonus if you buy a lesser metamagic rod of extend for 3000, that way it last 24 hours and there's even two leftover extend for some other useful buffs

With the stated wealth to be spend 88000, what I would buy :
lesser bracers of archery , with +4 DEX , 19000 gp
belt of battle 12000 gp
3rd level pearl of power and lesser extend rod, 12000gp

that's about half your budget, it's unclear to me if the 88000 must account for hte items you already have or not, but seems it does as 88000 is the expected wealth for a 12th level, yeah? Man you're rich I barely reached 50k at 13th level :D

I would go
12th level ranger 1 feat : travel devotion or heroic impulse, favored enemy whatever is most common in your campaign, orcs? humans? dragons?
13th level scout 12 --> bonus feat on swift ambuster , you get two more favored enemy out of the box with this, either more of those that are common in your campaign, or undead/construct to make use of being allowed to deal skirmish damage to them. I'm retaking scout here because your BAB does advance at 12th level, and a bonus feat is a bonus feat.
14th+levels : all ranger

ranger style would be archery, obviously
animal companion when you advance Ranger enough : Trillwing, d'uh!
You could see if your GM approves the draogn magazine ranger alternate class features solitary hunter : instead of an animal companion, your favored enemy bonus apply also to attack rolls, not just damage, this would mean +6/4/2 to your rolls against those favored enemy, and you don't have to finagle with a low level animal companion at your level :)

[pabelfly]

Consider taking a level in Ranger for the Swift Hunter feat from Complete Scoundrel.

You have applied the hit-and-run tactics learned from scouting to your strong hunting abilities.

Prerequisite
Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC, Favored Enemy,

Benefit
Your ranger and scout levels stack for the purpose of determining the extra damage and bonus to Armor Class granted when skirmishing. For example, a 4th-level scout/1st-level ranger would deal an extra 2d6 points of damage and gain a +1 competence bonus to AC when skirmishing, as if she were a 5th-level scout. Your ranger and scout levels also stack for the purpose of determining when you select additional favored enemies, as well as the total bonus granted against your favored enemies. For example, a 4th-level scout/1st-level ranger would have two favored enemies and could allocate an extra +2 bonus against one of those favored enemies, as if she were a 5th-level ranger. In addition, your skirmish extra damage applies against any creature you have selected as a favored enemy, even if it is normally immune to extra damage from critical hits or skirmish attacks.

Special
A scout can select Swift Hunter as one of her scout bonus feats (Complete Adventurer 13).

Travel Devotion, another feat, lets you have extra move actions for a while.

If you have Quick Reconnoiter, consider Keen Eared Scout

Swift Hunter is a great feat, would second this suggestion. Since you're already at Scout 11, I'd dip Ranger for a level, then get Scout 12 and spend your bonus feat on Swift Hunter.

The best Favored Enemy choices for this are enemies that would otherwise be immune to Skirmish damage, like Constructs and Undead, enemies your campaign is centred around, or enemies you or your party have trouble with in particular.

Level 12 feat suggestion - Rapid Shot will give you an extra attack at your highest bonus each turn for a small attack penalty. I'd go this unless you have something else you really want.

I'd also look for a bow with Splitting enchant, and something like Boots of Speed to get Haste and another attack each turn.

[godros]

I'm seconding ranger and swift ambusher.

Some other random thoughts :

How does your GM feel about psionics? have you probed about hiring the services of a psion for a manifesting of psychic reformation?, in other words "retraining but with different means" , it would cost you 280gp+250gp for each level you would reform. But you know your GM best and it might be best you let go of retraining past levels.


In Dragonlance:Age of mortals there is a feat that allows you to use an extra move or standard action some times per day, it's called heroic surge I believe, should be something live one use per day per 4 characters level or thereabouts.

What are your friends playing? if there is anyone with access to greater magic weapon, 9000gp for a 3rd level pearl of power sets you for life in regard to weapon enhancement : just ask them if they could prepare and use greater magic weapon on your bow. Bonus if you buy a lesser metamagic rod of extend for 3000, that way it last 24 hours and there's even two leftover extend for some other useful buffs

With the stated wealth to be spend 88000, what I would buy :
lesser bracers of archery , with +4 DEX , 19000 gp
belt of battle 12000 gp
3rd level pearl of power and lesser extend rod, 12000gp

that's about half your budget, it's unclear to me if the 88000 must account for hte items you already have or not, but seems it does as 88000 is the expected wealth for a 12th level, yeah? Man you're rich I barely reached 50k at 13th level :D

I would go
12th level ranger 1 feat : travel devotion or heroic impulse, favored enemy whatever is most common in your campaign, orcs? humans? dragons?
13th level scout 12 --> bonus feat on swift ambuster , you get two more favored enemy out of the box with this, either more of those that are common in your campaign, or undead/construct to make use of being allowed to deal skirmish damage to them. I'm retaking scout here because your BAB does advance at 12th level, and a bonus feat is a bonus feat.
14th+levels : all ranger

ranger style would be archery, obviously
animal companion when you advance Ranger enough : Trillwing, d'uh!
You could see if your GM approves the draogn magazine ranger alternate class features solitary hunter : instead of an animal companion, your favored enemy bonus apply also to attack rolls, not just damage, this would mean +6/4/2 to your rolls against those favored enemy, and you don't have to finagle with a low level animal companion at your level :)


Very cool! Thank you for sharing these options. For clarity, when you say Swift Ambusher, are you referring to the "Swift Hunter" feat that the previous commenter, Doctor Despair, referenced in his comment, which would allow Ranger and Scout levels to stack for the purposes of determining Skirmish and Favored Enemies; or do you mean the Swift Ambusher feat that allows Rogue and Scout levels to stack for Skirmish and Sneak Attack in the same way?

The other members of the party include a Kobold Artificer; a Human Knight/Ru'athar; a Half-Elf Monk/Cleric/Shadow Dancer; a Dragonborn Wu Jen; and a Halfling Cleric. IIRC, Greater Magic Weapon should be available either as an infusion from the Artificer, or as a spell from the Cleric. I can speak to them about that.

I will take your advice into consideration! Much obliged.

EDIT: Also, yes - the 88000 is total character wealth, to include items I've already gathered, unless I decide to dispose of them. Aaaaand we were not rich by any means lol. My character, before this timeskip, was equipped with a total of around 20k worth of items... At level 11... Severely under-geared in my opinion and the opinions of several other players... Though, it's not really an issue that our DM is so stingy with loot lol. We just take a little longer and have to think more creatively with our combat strategy. And it's nice that he gives us these timeskip opportunities to gear up, although I do wish they were perhaps a bit more frequent. *shrug*

[ciopo]

yes sorry, I meant swift hunter. Also by the time I typed and got de-distracted by cats I half forgot you already mentioned your party, I got the attention span of a squirrel but I promise I've read the whole post!

I feel kindred spirits about being undergeared, we went from 9th to 13th level doing a biggish dungeon that gave out about 130000 gp payout split 6 ways, so until about a week ago I was right there with you at 20k or so gear-amount, but I made do with day-long spell buffs, long live the druid!

[Troacctid]

Blindsighted is pretty decent if you have access to the 3.0 version, even if it is somewhat expensive, but it was hit pretty hard with the nerf bat in MIC and I don't think the updated version is worth using.

I have a spreadsheet of useful items in my signature that you might find helpful. A few highlights:


Deathstrike bracers let you skirmish enemies that would normally be immune.
Talon scepter lets you make a short-range fire ray attack as a swift action, great for sneaking extra skirmish attacks into a round.
Specialist arrows—one of the perks of being an archer is the ability to fill your quiver with all kinds of arrows for different situations. You already have the core special materials, but a few of my favorites that you don't have yet are blunt arrows, serpentstongue arrows, swiftwing arrows, dragonsbreath arrows, serren arrows, sacred arrows, seeking arrows, and illusion bane arrows.
Your boots of striding and springing don't stack with the fast movement from your scout levels, so if you want that speed boost, ditch them and get a fast leg graft or Shaundakul's boots (or just ditch them—speed has diminishing returns anyway).
Quicksilver boots are a good way to move and full attack.
Some form of free movement would be advisable to deal with grapples (a traditional counter to scouts) as well as magical impediments; check out the tag (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sJRCphWkrtLm8Q6iD6_YPp00MggiAT556j9231uu5Lg/edit#gid=0&fvid=452163935) for a list of options.

[Gorthawar]

I totally agree with the previous comments regarding ranger levels and the swift hunter feat and an extra scout level to pocket the bonus feat also makes sense.
Depending on your characters personality and enforcement of multiclass penalty rules a lvl 1 dip in cloistered cleric also works wonders. You can use your turn undead attempts to power travel devotion to allow it's use in every fight and you can even get the feat instead of the domain.

Item wise I'm not the biggest fan of the greater bracers of archery. For the money I'd rather invest in something like a continous collar of umbral metamorphosis for +10 speed, 10 cold resistance, darkvision and hide on plain sight.
The seeking enchantment for you bow can be very helpful depending on your DMs reading of it overcoming concealment and therefore allowing skirmish damage.
A chronocharm of the horizon walker is a cheap but nifty item to move and full attack 1/day if you're not using the slot for anything else.
Something to protect you from level/ability drain would probably be a good idea at that level too.

My Ranger is about to hit level 9 and has about 10k worth of equipment only. Glad you got to catch up.

[godros]

Just wanted to give an update! I greatly appreciate all of the advice and suggestions you've all provided!

I've decided to take Ranger 1 and Feat: Swift Hunter for my 12th Character Level. I suppose at level 13 I can take Scout 12 and take the Bonus Feat: Improved Initiative or keep going into Ranger. I am taking Alternate Class Feature: Solitary Hunting, which will remove my Ranger animal companion, but I will get my Favored Enemy Damage Bonus additionally applied to Attack Rolls against Favored Enemies.

Items:

Weapon:+3 Darkwood Composite Elvencraft Longbow (adds +1 Str bonus to Damage Rolls)
Face: Goggles of the Ebon Hunter
Shoulders: Piercer Cloak
Armor: Mithral Forestwarden Shroud Chain Vest +1
Arms: Bracers of Blinding Strike
Hands: Gloves of Agile Striking and +4 Dexterity (combining Gloves of Agile Striking and Gloves of Dexterity +4)
Waist: Healing Belt of Battle (combining Healing Belt & Belt of Battle)
Feet: Skirmisher Boots of Agile Leaping (combining Skirmisher Boots & Boots of Agile Leaping)

Misc:
Handy Haversack
Efficient Quiver (will stock with specialty arrows)
Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker (x3)

By my math, this leaves me with about 2000gp left, so should be plenty to buy arrows with. I was considering not taking the Goggles of Ebon Hunter and using the gold to add Bracers of Wind enchantment to my Bracers, and Quicksilver Boots enchantment to my Boots. But I already have so many items that require a Swift action to use, and there was a lot of overlap with movement increases. Plus the Goggles give me a constant +1 to atk/dmg with ranged weapons, whereas the Bracers of Wind require Standard action to activate and only give a +1 to atk with ranged weapons. The -2 to incoming Ranged attacks is nice, but is a bit situational.

[pabelfly]

If its not too late to change, Swift Hunter is also a scout bonus feat, so you can spend you level 12 feat on something other than Improved Initiative.

[Gorthawar]

Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker (x3)


Just a heads up. RAW you can only wear one chronocharm of each type at the same time and they need 24h to adjust to the wearer making more than one of these a bit useless. Check with your DM though he might be ok with it anyways.

[godros]

If its not too late to change, Swift Hunter is also a scout bonus feat, so you can spend you level 12 feat on something other than Improved Initiative.

Yeah, I was really wanting to do that... But we're honestly not sure whether we'll get to level 13. In the homebrew setting, it's a sort of soft level cap. I don't quite understand why we are proceeding at level 12 instead of starting fresh with new characters, but that's the DM's perogative. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And I think the only other option I'd really have is Travel Devotion, and I don't intend to multiclass dip a 2nd time for Turn Undead charges this late into the character.



Just a heads up. RAW you can only wear one chronocharm of each type at the same time and they need 24h to adjust to the wearer making more than one of these a bit useless. Check with your DM though he might be ok with it anyways.

I'll be changing between the 3 outside of combat as needed. I have plenty of other movement options during combat if the equipped chronocharm gets used :)

[Gorthawar]

I'll be changing between the 3 outside of combat as needed. I have plenty of other movement options during combat if the equipped chronocharm gets used :)

Yeah, that doesn't work according to RAw as you can only wear one of them at a time and when you swap the new one needs 24h for attunement at which point the first one could be used again anyways.

However, the scout in my campaign happily uses 2 as I approved it as DM so I would find out what yours thinks of it.

[godros]

Yeah, that doesn't work according to RAw as you can only wear one of them at a time and when you swap the new one needs 24h for attunement at which point the first one could be used again anyways.

However, the scout in my campaign happily uses 2 as I approved it as DM so I would find out what yours thinks of it.

Oh, wow. Damn. This is showing my lack of knowledge as a player. We've been playing for years and this is the first I'm hearing about attunement in 3.5. Thanks for sharing. I knew it was a thing in 5e, but I wasn't aware it existed in 3.5. I'll make sure to run this by the DM!

EDIT: The DM clarified that the 24hr attunement thing is actually a part of the chronocharm description in 3.5. SOOOOOOO thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'll save 1000gp by just taking 1 chronocharm instead of 3. Thank you!!!