Getting past immunity to energy drain without dispel or casting spells

[Brennan1612]

I am thinking of playing a soul eater in a future campaign, but I cannot find a way to get around someone casting death ward or having the soulfire armor enchantment, is there anything a non-caster can do to get around this.
I would like to not rely on my allies to spend their actions just for me

Thanks

[Biggus]

There are ways to get Dispel/Greater Dispel as a non-caster, for example the Dispelling and Greater Dispelling weapon enhancements (MIC p.33) or the Rings of Spell Storing (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#spellStoringMinor).

Soulfire is an expensive enhancement so shouldn't appear until quite late in the game, and even then if every other character has it I'd call foul as there are several other very nice special abilities it's completing with.

[Troacctid]

I am thinking of playing a soul eater in a future campaign, but I cannot find a way to get around someone casting death ward or having the soulfire armor enchantment, is there anything a non-caster can do to get around this.
Yes, there are two ways.
1. Dispel it. (Not applicable against undead or constructs.)
2. Don't lean so hard on your one-trick-pony gimmick that you fold like a house of cards in the first encounter where it doesn't work.

[sleepyphoenixx]

You can't, or at least not reliably. That's the danger of being a one-trick pony.
And dispelling enemy buffs is the party casters job (or part of it at least).


There are ways to get Dispel/Greater Dispel as a non-caster, for example the Dispelling and Greater Dispelling weapon enhancements (MIC p.33) or the Rings of Spell Storing (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#spellStoringMinor).

Soulfire is an expensive enhancement so shouldn't appear until quite late in the game, and even then if every other character has it I'd call foul as there are several other very nice special abilities it's completing with.

Rings of Spell Storing always cast at minimum CL so they're pretty much useless for dispelling purposes. Or at least very unreliable.

As for Soulfire it's not that expensive and it provides a lot of very valuable immunities to some very common forms of attack.
The only defensive abilities that come anywhere close are Mind Blank and Freedom of Movement, both of which are much more costly.

You also can't optimize your character and then cry foul when the DM does the same to his monsters and NPCs (to an extent, when it's IC for them to know of and prepare for the PCs at least). It's the only way to keep combat interesting and - at least for me - it'd be much more immersion breaking if everyone except the party are idiots.
If your PCs know all the best/most cost-effective options when it comes to gearing the reasonable assumption is that any similarly intelligent and/or well-connected enemy can do the same.

[Brennan1612]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'll probably just make sure I hit hard as well then, for those that are immune

[Crake]

As for Soulfire it's not that expensive and it provides a lot of very valuable immunities to some very common forms of attack.
The only defensive abilities that come anywhere close are Mind Blank and Freedom of Movement, both of which are much more costly.

You also can't optimize your character and then cry foul when the DM does the same to his monsters and NPCs (to an extent, when it's IC for them to know of and prepare for the PCs at least). It's the only way to keep combat interesting and - at least for me - it'd be much more immersion breaking if everyone except the party are idiots.
If your PCs know all the best/most cost-effective options when it comes to gearing the reasonable assumption is that any similarly intelligent and/or well-connected enemy can do the same.

"Not that expensive". It's 25,000 with nothing else on it bar a +1 ability, which an NPC can't afford until 12th level, and even then, it would require spending almost all of their wealth on it. I wouldn't expect to see it on an NPC until probably about 15th or 16th level, where they have 59-77k gold to spend.

[Biggus]

Rings of Spell Storing always cast at minimum CL so they're pretty much useless for dispelling purposes. Or at least very unreliable.

They're ok when those spells first become available but it's certainly true that they quickly lose usefulness. The bigger problem is their high price for a relatively small amount of storage space.

The Dispelling weapon enhancements also have a similar problem of being fixed caster level, but they're better than the rings.



As for Soulfire it's not that expensive and it provides a lot of very valuable immunities to some very common forms of attack.


It's a +4 enhancement, that's the second-most expensive armor category pre-epic. If you go straight to it from a +1 item it only costs 24,000GP, but I've never seen anyone actually do that. Death effects and negative levels are only very common when you get to fairly high levels, so people are more usually interested in things like Fortification early on. Also, there's the Death Ward ability which only functions once per day but is much cheaper, so is available more quickly if you're in undead-heavy campaign or something.

Edit: ignore what I said about wanting other stuff first, as Crake pointed out an NPC wouldn't be likely to have it until about level 15 anyway

[King of Nowhere]

That's assumung standard wbl. I've never seen anything like standard wbl, it was either a lot more or a lot less, for pcs and npcs alike.

So you should talk to your dm regarding the likelyhood of opponents having it, because it's entirely campaign-dependent

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hire the casting services of a psion with the dispel psionics, soul crystal, and quintessence powers. Have him (or her, or it, case depending) create a soul crystal of dispel psionics at the highest ML he can, then cover the soul crystal in quintessence to put it in timeless storage. Now you can manifest dispel psionics whenever you like, up to the number stored in the soul crystal. Note that you can hire a second manifester for the quintessence if the first one isn't a shaper or doesn't know the power, but the other needs to have both powers to make it work. Also, see if the one with dispel psionics and soul crystal can use Maximize and Empower Power on dispel for a much larger dispel check.

[Troacctid]

Hire the casting services of a psion with the dispel psionics, soul crystal, and quintessence powers. Have him (or her, or it, case depending) create a soul crystal of dispel psionics at the highest ML he can, then cover the soul crystal in quintessence to put it in timeless storage. Now you can manifest dispel psionics whenever you like, up to the number stored in the soul crystal. Note that you can hire a second manifester for the quintessence if the first one isn't a shaper or doesn't know the power, but the other needs to have both powers to make it work. Also, see if the one with dispel psionics and soul crystal can use Maximize and Empower Power on dispel for a much larger dispel check.
Honestly, I'm a little disappointed that you would go to that level of cheese and sketchiness just to obtain what is ultimately a glorified dorje, instead of simply buying an actual dorje, or, better yet, an arrow of superior dispelling, which is cheaper and usable at will. Claiming you can empower a dispel check, though, that's just sloppy. It literally says in the feat that you can't do that specific thing.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Honestly, I'm a little disappointed that you would go to that level of cheese and sketchiness just to obtain what is ultimately a glorified dorje, instead of simply buying an actual dorje, or, better yet, an arrow of superior dispelling, which is cheaper and usable at will. Blindly assuming an exploit works without bothering to check the relevant rules, though, is very on-brand, I'll give you that.Dispel psionics explicitly dispels stuff. Soul crystal explicitly stores powers for use by others at the manifester's ML. Quintessence explicitly stops time for anything coated in it. Maximize and Empower Power explicitly maximizes and empowers variable numbers in powers it affects. You can explicitly purchase spellcasting services of any spellcaster you can find who is selling; the PHB gives explicitly pricing for it, even.

Not sure what you're getting at here, aside from maybe just harassing and insulting me.

[edit] Empower doesn't work. Maximize does.

[Troacctid]

Dispel psionics explicitly dispels stuff. Soul crystal explicitly stores powers for use by others at the manifester's ML. Quintessence explicitly stops time for anything coated in it. Maximize and Empower explicitly maximize and empower variable numbers in the powers they affect. You can explicitly purchase spellcasting services of any spellcaster you can find who is selling; the PHB gives explicitly pricing for it, even.

Not sure what you're getting at here, aside from maybe just harassing and insulting me.
A soul crystal only contains two castings of the power at max ML. The cost of spellcasting services is 10 x power level x CL. You're paying for two powers, one 3rd level, one 4th level, both at the highest CL, so if you average them out, each use of dispel costs 35 x CL gp. However, you also need at least one drop of quintessence, which costs another 280 gp for your two uses, bringing the cost per use up to 35 x CL + 140 gp.

Meanwhile, a single casting from a dorje costs 15 x power level x CL, or, for a 3rd level power, 45 x power level x CL. Assuming ML 10, since that's the max for a regular dispel, each charge from the dorje costs 450 gp, while each fully-augmented casting from the quintessenced soul crystal costs 490 gp, for the same effect.

That's assuming your quintessence even works, because while the text says it protects the physical object against time, there's nothing to indicate that it does the same for any spells and powers that may be in place. Hence the cheese; by RAW, the duration ought to expire normally. Your DM could rule that it works, of course, but they could just as easily rule that it doesn't, and if they do, there aren't any rules you could point to to defend your trick.

Meanwhile, both the dorje and the ammunition are backed up by ironclad RAW, and cost less gold to boot.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A soul crystal only contains two castings of the power at max ML. The cost of spellcasting services is 10 x power level x CL. You're paying for two powers, one 3rd level, one 4th level, both at the highest CL, so if you average them out, each use of dispel costs 35 x CL gp. However, you also need at least one drop of quintessence, which costs another 280 gp for your two uses, bringing the cost per use up to 35 x CL + 140 gp.

Meanwhile, a single casting from a dorje costs 15 x power level x CL, or, for a 3rd level power, 45 x power level x CL. Assuming ML 10, since that's the max for a regular dispel, each charge from the dorje costs 450 gp, while each fully-augmented casting from the quintessenced soul crystal costs 490 gp, for the same effect.

That's assuming your quintessence even works, because while the text says it protects the physical object against time, there's nothing to indicate that it does the same for any spells and powers that may be in place. Hence the cheese; by RAW, the duration ought to expire normally. Your DM could rule that it works, of course, but they could just as easily rule that it doesn't, and if they do, there aren't any rules you could point to to defend your trick.

Meanwhile, both the dorje and the ammunition are backed up by ironclad RAW, and cost less gold to boot.Fair, although dorjes wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful, and you'd need UPD for them, whereas soul crystals don't. Good luck getting UPD outside of levels in factotum and shaper.

Although you could also get a psion minion for soul crystals in some other way, such as through Leadership or even just by buying one off as a hireling.