Rogue Options Via Feats Like Magic Initiate and Ritual Caster

[NeonAnodyne]

First time playing a Rogue in awhile, and finding myself gravitating towards the Assassin subclass, though I'm not worried about damage output more than utility and "shenanigans" factor.

Specifically in the spell department, though Arcane Trickster is quite tempting, I am finding myself at a crossroads where I want to have my massive damage cake and eat it too with several potential spellcasting options...

Enter feats such as: Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster, Poisoner, Sharpshooter, Spell Sniper, Lucky, Resilliant, Telekinesis, Telepathy, and Skilled

There are so many choices I am having quite a bit of trouble choosing between them!

I rolled some pretty good numbers so I'll have around 4 feats to work with...has anyone gone down a similar rabbit hole before? Is this foray into an arcanic rogue best left to the dedicated subclass?

So far my selections are as follows:

I am starting out as a lvl 1 Changeling with a Hat of Disguise Goggles of Darkvision

4th Level: Ritual Caster: "Find Familiar, Detect Magic...[more ritual spells?]"

8th Level: Magic Initiate (Druid) Guidance, Thorn Whip, Healing Word/Goodberry"

10th Level: Fey Touched/Artificer Initiate: "Minor Illusion, Identify" Herbalism Kit Proficency...

12th Level: Lucky/ASI?

Note about the world: Emphasis on surviving in a hostile environment, known for extreme weather differences except in the central starting city.

Thank you for any feedback! :smile:

[CTurbo]

By RAW, you can't take Magic Initiate more than once.

I would go with Arcane Trickster all the way and taking Ritual Caster and Magic Initiate are still great ideas. I'd take Find Familiar with your Arcane Trickster spell options and possibly Bless, Guidance, and Sacred Flame via Magic Initiate. Ritual Caster: Wizard lets you hold onto your spell slots. There are many feats these days that add additional spells too.

[NeonAnodyne]

By RAW, you can't take Magic Initiate more than once.

Aw, beans. Good catch, I'll adjust accordingly.


I would go with Arcane Trickster all the way and taking Ritual Caster and Magic Initiate are still great ideas. I'd take Find Familiar with your Arcane Trickster spell options and possibly Bless, Guidance, and Sacred Flame via Magic Initiate. Ritual Caster: Wizard lets you hold onto your spell slots. There are many feats these days that add additional spells too.

Noted. Sacred flame is a very useful choice I was not previously aware of, excellent! :biggrin:

[Leon]

Why not take the Artificer Initiate feat as its own separate thing but sill shares a lot with Wizard and lets you do the Druid one still with magic Initiate

[nickl_2000]

You are in a campaign with a hostile environment, it may be worth doing ritual caster at level 4 so that you can pick up Leomund's Tiny Hut at level 5. That alone can protect you from bad weather for long rests outside the city.

[solidork]

I played a V Human Arcane Trickster that started out with Skilled and picked up Ritual Caster: Wizard at 4. We only made it to level 6 or so, but I enjoyed it. One thing that's nice about spending build resources this way is that you aren't really locked into being melee or ranged the way you would be if you picked up Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert - your damage is mostly the same if you're stabbing or shooting.

[RogueJK]

You typically don't want to splash around into various different spellcasting classes for attack-based or save-based spells/cantrips.

For example, if your Assassin Rogue were to pick up Fire Bolt (INT-based) from Spell Sniper and then Thorn Whip (WIS-based) from Magic Initiate Druid, you now have your usual DEX-based Rogue weapon attacks, an INT-based attack, and a WIS-based attack.

This means that unless you started out with godly stats (like 18+ DEX, INT, and WIS), you're not going to be able to raise all of your attack stats as you progress. So you're going to end up with one attack that is going to be noticeably better than the others due to the higher associated stat. Or you're going to water down your ASIs by trying to raise them all. For example, it's generally better to have a 20 DEX and 14 INT/WIS or 20 DEX 16 INT 12 WIS, and just focus primarily on your DEX-based weapon attacks, than to have a 16 DEX/INT/WIS in the hopes that you can make use of Rapier and Fire Bolt and Thorn Whip.

The good news is that the Rogue class can afford to have a second high stat in addition to just DEX. So something like DEX+WIS, or DEX+INT, or DEX+CHA, which means you can still be an effective spellcaster. But if you want to dabble in some additional magical attacks, pick just one spellcasting stat and stick with it. INT would be the most logical choice, allowing you access to Artificer Initiate, Magic Initiate Wizard, and Ritual Caster Wizard, plus something like a +1 INT half-feat that adds more spells such as Fey Touched, Shadow Touched, or Telekinetic. This also dovetails nicely with the Arcane Trickster's INT-based casting if you decide to go that subclass route. But you could totally do DEX+WIS with Cleric/Druid spellcasting, or DEX+CHA with Sorcerer/Warlock spellcasting.

Or, if you do decide to take a spell-granting feat that doesn't correlate with your primary spellcasting stat, like Magic Initiate Cleric/Druid on a DEX+INT Rogue, you can just stick to non-attack utility or buff spells/cantrips that don't rely on that non-primary WIS spellcasting modifier. Something like Guidance, Thaumaturgy, and Bless. Or Guidance, Mold Earth, and Goodberry.

And if you're not already locked into a specific race, there are a number of races with racial spellcasting, including stuff like High Elf/Half-Elf, Drow Elf/Half-Elf, Forest Gnome, Svirfneblin, Triton, Genasi, Fairy, Firbolg, Yuan-Ti, and all the various Tieflings. Plus additional racial feats that add more spellcasting like Drow High Magic, Wood Elf Magic, or Svirfneblin Magic. These races and racial feats can be another good way to get some additional spellcasting on a non-spellcasting class character. But again, you'll want to focus on just the one spellcasting stat that aligns with your racial spellcasting.

Finally, keep in mind that you can't Sneak Attack with cantrips. So while it might be handy to have a ranged damage cantrip as a backup - especially a save-based one like Sacred Flame/Create Bonfire/Toll the Dead/etc. for use against enemies with really high AC that you're having a hard time hitting with your weapon attacks - you don't want to focus too hard to picking up a bunch of different damage cantrips on a Rogue. Your DEX-based Finesse/Ranged weapon attacks will be your primary method of dealing damage, thanks to Sneak Attack. (Especially for an Assassin.)

However, the cantrips Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade can get you the best of both worlds of Sneak Attack plus added cantrip damage, since the cantrip involves a melee weapon attack that triggers Sneak Attack. Specifically, the combination of a Booming Blade Rapier Sneak Attack + Bonus Action Cunning Action Disengage is a powerful combo for a melee Rogue.


For example, setting aside your Changeling for a minute, if I were to make a non-spellcasting class Magical Assassin, I might do a Wood Elf focusing on DEX+INT and taking Shadow Touched (+1 INT, Invisibility, Disguise Self), Magic Initiate Wizard (Booming Blade, Mage Hand, Absorb Elements), Ritual Caster Wizard, and Wood Elf Magic (Guidance, Longstrider, Pass Without Trace)

This gets you massive boosts to your already high Stealth abilities, taking your existing high DEX and Stealth Expertise and tacking on Pass Without Trace (+10), Guidance (+1d4), and Invisibility. Plus some added mobility from Longstrider. And a quick getaway tool with Disguise Self. And a significant amount of Wizard ritual utility spells, most notably Find Familiar for an Owl Familiar to take the Flyby Help action to grant me Advantage for Sneak Attack.


With your Changeling specifically, it might look something more like this, depending on your exact stats: Still DEX+INT based, going with Shadow Touched (+1 INT, Invisibility, Silent Image), Ritual Caster Wizard, Magic Initiate Wizard (Booming Blade, Minor Illusion, Fog Cloud), and Artificer Initiate (Guidance, Absorb Elements)

[NeonAnodyne]

Why not take the Artificer Initiate feat as its own separate thing but sill shares a lot with Wizard and lets you do the Druid one still with magic Initiate

Capital idea! You've basically cracked it wide open for me. I was unaware of this feat before now and it looks almost perfect.

The only hard part now will be deciding which cantrip to sacrifice...


You are in a campaign with a hostile environment, it may be worth doing ritual caster at level 4


...picked up Ritual Caster: Wizard at level 4. We only made it to level 6 or so, but I enjoyed it...you aren't really locked into being melee or ranged the way you would be if you picked up Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert...

Precisely! I'm after magic/arcane utility mostly, I believe Nicklas suggestion of Leomund's Hut would be extraordinarily helpful here, and worth looking into.

I am also somewhat hoping that damage in my case would be sufficient enough not to become a one trick pony (or at least when I am up against something resistant or immune to piercing or slashing damage) and with some other considerations, of course!..Regardless, Ritual Caster is probably the right call so I'll update my character accordingly! :wink:

This may be an aside, but, is anyone else concerned as I am about lack of darkvision for this build? A Rogue without DV kind of feels like I'm trying to make a Warlock without EB. Is darkvision a ritual? Should I attune a magic item for it?

[RogueJK]

The Darkvision spell is not a ritual.


Since the Hat of Disguise is pretty redundant, see if you can swap that out for Goggle of the Night. Saves you an attunement slot too, since Goggles of the Night don't require attunement.

With your Shapechanger racial ability and something like a mundane reversible overcloak, you can do 99% of what a Hat of Disguise allows anyway.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I always figure Fey Touched is worth considering because A) Misty Step is a 2nd level spell and some kind of teleportation is really good, B) Some of the other spell options are also really good; I don't know if Gift of Alacrity would be allowed for you, but better initiative is kind of a need on an assassin. Even if it's not there are a bunch of other options. and... C) rounding off an odd score (particularly if it's Wisdom) is a nice bonus that most other options don't give you.

[nickl_2000]

The Darkvision spell is not a ritual.


Since the Hat of Disguise is pretty redundant, see if you can swap that out for Goggle of the Night. Saves you an attunement slot too, since Goggles of the Night don't require attunement.

With your Shapechanger racial ability and something like a mundane reversible overcloak, you can do 99% of what a Hat of Disguise allows anyway.


Capital idea! You've basically cracked it wide open for me. I was unaware of this feat before now and it looks almost perfect.

The only hard part now will be deciding which cantrip to sacrifice...





Precisely! I'm after magic/arcane utility mostly, I believe Nicklas suggestion of Leomund's Hut would be extraordinarily helpful here, and worth looking into.

I am also somewhat hoping that damage in my case would be sufficient enough not to become a one trick pony (or at least when I am up against something resistant or immune to piercing or slashing damage) and with some other considerations, of course!..Regardless, Ritual Caster is probably the right call so I'll update my character accordingly! :wink:

This may be an aside, but, is anyone else concerned as I am about lack of darkvision for this build? A Rogue without DV kind of feels like I'm trying to make a Warlock without EB. Is darkvision a ritual? Should I attune a magic item for it?


What RogueJK said. If you are extremely worried about it, this is the perfect solution.

[NeonAnodyne]

You typically don't want to splash around into various different spellcasting classes for attack-based or save-based spells/cantrips.

Your expertly written quality post here makes me pained to say that the ambiguity of my title has led you somewhat astray, for this, I deeply apologize.

However, I will keep this reply in a separate special document and consult it regularly if I ever build a similar character. :biggrin:

I should have mentioned there is an Evoker Wizard in my group, I believe pound for pound spellwise they will be leading in the arcane damage and variety department.

My goal for this character at least is to provide misdirection and semi-regular DPS and also some small support/healing if possible. :smile:

[nickl_2000]

Your expertly written quality post here makes me pained to say that the ambiguity of my title has led you somewhat astray, for this, I deeply apologize.

However, I will keep this reply in a separate special document and consult it regularly if I ever build a similar character. :biggrin:

I should have mentioned there is an Evoker Wizard in my group, I believe pound for pound spellwise they will be leading in the arcane damage and variety department.

My goal for this character at least is to provide misdirection and semi-regular DPS and also some small support/healing if possible. :smile:

Okay, there being a Wizard in the group changes a lot of things in how I would set up. There really isn't need for you to get Ritual Caster Wizard, the Wizard can get them just as fast and you don't need to waste money. If you still want to go ritual caster I would look at Ritual Caster Druid/Bard instead of Wizard.

Now, don't get me wrong, there are times its nice to have two people who can ritual cast the same spell, but I think you would get more bang out of your feat doing Druid or Bard

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Your expertly written quality post here makes me pained to say that the ambiguity of my title has led you somewhat astray, for this, I deeply apologize.

However, I will keep this reply in a separate special document and consult it regularly if I ever build a similar character. :biggrin:

I should have mentioned there is an Evoker Wizard in my group, I believe pound for pound spellwise they will be leading in the arcane damage and variety department.

My goal for this character at least is to provide misdirection and semi-regular DPS and also some small support/healing if possible. :smile:

Some kind of Cleric dip would get you Healing Word + Bless + Guidance + ... I'm personally playing an Assassin at the moment with 2 levels of Grave Cleric; I'd say the utility and flexibility I got was definitely worth the loss of 1d6 per round of SA damage and whatever else I'm missing from Rogue levels.

[RogueJK]

Okay, there being a Wizard in the group changes a lot of things in how I would set up.

Most definitely. That's important info. The Wizard is going to have those Ritual Caster Wizard spells already, and you generally don't need multiple castings of Wizard rituals... One Tiny Hut per party, for example. So skip the INT stat focus build described above.


Does your party need some Druid capabilities? Then I'd go Shadow Touched (+1 WIS, Invisibility, Disguise Self), Ritual Caster Druid, Magic Initiate Druid (Guidance, a utility cantrip like Mold Earth, and Goodberry), and the fourth one is a wild card like Lucky or Alert.

In addition to the usual Rogue skills like Stealth, Perception, and Acrobatics, you'll want to pick up Nature, Animal Handling, and Survival proficiency. Perhaps you're the party's Outdoorsman Assassin, who sneaks through the wilds like a prowling predator to get the drop on unsuspecting enemies. The Outlander background's ability to navigate and find food and water is especially great for this theme, and your campaign's setting by the sound of it.


Does your party need some Cleric capabilities? Then I'd go Shadow Touched (+1 WIS, Invisibility, Disguise Self), Ritual Caster Cleric, Magic Initiate Cleric (Guidance, Thaumaturgy, and Bless), and the Healer feat.

In addition to the usual Rogue skills, you'll want to pick up Religion and Medicine proficiency, and have some Healers Kits handy. You're the party's backup healer and medical/religious scholar. Perhaps you're a Holy Anatomist Assassin, who studied at the Church of the God of Medicine and knows the body well enough to both heal and harm efficiently.


Or, you can swap in Magic Initiate Wizard (Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, and Find Familiar) for Magic Initiate Cleric/Druid in one of the above scenarios if you want to have a bit more personal utility for traditional Rogue-type stuff when it comes to exploration, handling traps, scouting, stealing, misdirection, and other creative shenanigans.

[NeonAnodyne]

The Darkvision spell is not a ritual.

Consarnit.


...see if you can swap that out for Goggle of the Night. Saves you an attunement slot too, since Goggles of the Night don't require attunement.

This item is a great suggestion I will look into possibly purchasing them next session (or when I can afford it)!


Since the Hat of Disguise is pretty redundant

My DM totally said the same thing, and for the most part I agree except for one tiny little detail, I'll tell you about in the next paragraph...


With your Shapechanger racial ability and something like a mundane reversible overcloak, you can do 99% of what a Hat of Disguise allows anyway.

On second consideration, I think you've hit the nail right on the head. Just one badly timed casting of "Detect Magic" could easily betray my subterfuge.

It would be much safer to just make it a secondary ability and opt for the Darkvision Goggles, which would make everything else so much easier in the long run.

[Paragraphs of unnecessary speculation removed]

Edit: Whoa, so many good replies I can't keep up anymore! :biggrin: Thank you for all of the advice, I need a moment to read all of this and I'll get back to responding as soon as I can.

[Corran]

Is multiclassing allowed? Cause a few druid levels would be useful.

[Keravath]

I've played an arcane trickster rogue and it was a great way to get magical ability for a rogue. I'm not sure that having a bunch of feats with once/day casting of certain spells is really going to feel the same as having spell slots along with those once/day uses.

However, in my case, I multiclassed into warlock for at least two levels. For role playing reasons it was a Fae warlock but it has some benefits. The main reason is table dependent - but if your table uses the rules as written that impose disadvantage on perception checks (-5 on passive, disadvantage on rolls) when using darkvision to see in darkness - then getting devils sight from warlock is a significant benefit since you can find doors/traps/anything else you need to see, as easily in complete darkness as if it was well lit. This really fit into my concept of a rogue being able to operate well in complete darkness. In addition, you pick up two short rest first level spell slots which can be very useful for casting the spells provided by feats (3 levels of warlock gives you 2 2nd level slots - so that Shadow touched or Fey touched could have 3 castings of invisibility or misty step/day rather than just the one provided by the feat).

If you want to be a medium armor rogue or one that fights in melee with a shield then going hexblade gives you these - plus as an added bonus - hexblade's curse 1/short rest - which increases your crit range - very useful for a rogue - and adds a bit more damage.

Two or three levels of warlock would also give you the short rest spell slots to back up the magical feats on any other rogue build as well - though it does supplement the arcane trickster particularly well.

On the other hand, a hexblade/assassin might be quite thematic.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I've played an arcane trickster rogue and it was a great way to get magical ability for a rogue. I'm not sure that having a bunch of feats with once/day casting of certain spells is really going to feel the same as having spell slots along with those once/day uses.

However, in my case, I multiclassed into warlock for at least two levels. For role playing reasons it was a Fae warlock but it has some benefits. The main reason is table dependent - but if your table uses the rules as written that impose disadvantage on perception checks (-5 on passive, disadvantage on rolls) when using darkvision to see in darkness - then getting devils sight from warlock is a significant benefit since you can find doors/traps/anything else you need to see, as easily in complete darkness as if it was well lit. This really fit into my concept of a rogue being able to operate well in complete darkness. In addition, you pick up two short rest first level spell slots which can be very useful for casting the spells provided by feats (3 levels of warlock gives you 2 2nd level slots - so that Shadow touched or Fey touched could have 3 castings of invisibility or misty step/day rather than just the one provided by the feat).

If you want to be a medium armor rogue or one that fights in melee with a shield then going hexblade gives you these - plus as an added bonus - hexblade's curse 1/short rest - which increases your crit range - very useful for a rogue - and adds a bit more damage.

Two or three levels of warlock would also give you the short rest spell slots to back up the magical feats on any other rogue build as well - though it does supplement the arcane trickster particularly well.

On the other hand, a hexblade/assassin might be quite thematic.

Agreed on the 1/ day limit being an issue. That's where a small dip + feats like Fey Touched that give you the spells as slots too creates a lot more versatility.

[animorte]

I've played an arcane trickster rogue and it was a great way to get magical ability for a rogue. I'm not sure that having a bunch of feats with once/day casting of certain spells is really going to feel the same as having spell slots along with those once/day uses.

On the other hand, a hexblade/assassin might be quite thematic.

Thank you for saying both of these things for me, I second them greatly. Arcane Trickster is no joke on being all-around useful, get creative! Naturally I could (and have) come up with other Warlock subclasses for this purpose, but I won't argue with your points on this one. Very good, indeed.

- Also MY recommendation is to go with Swashbuckler/Divine Soul Sorcerer (Dex/Cha). This really gives you an excellent use of the extra Charisma (bonus to initiative + Panache), and provides a more reliable Sneak Attack in melee.
- Divine Soul Sorcerer is (IMO) easily one of the best 1-level dips in the game for a Martial class (if you can afford the Charisma). Access to the Cleric AND Sorcerer spell lists (4 cantrips, 2 1st-level spells). Favored by the Gods (add 2d4 to failed save/attack 1/short rest) is also quite useful.

Already mentioned, but: A race with additional casting. A casting feat or two (at most). This build really takes care of most of the casting versatility for you. And everyone here has offered excellent spell selection.

[Chronos]

My first 5e character was a human rogue, starting at first level. I eventually went Arcane Trickster with him, but I wanted him to have a touch of magic right from the get-go, and so I took Ritual Caster (Wizard) as my human feat. Even though we had a full wizard in the party, I never regretted it.

RogueJK has a point about different classes using different casting stats, but casting stat has little or no relevance for most ritual spells, anyway. And likewise for a bunch of other spells that you might pick up with the other feats. Honestly, I wouldn't pick up any damage spells, except for possibly Booming or Green Flame Blade: You're a rogue; you already have ways of dealing damage, incompatible with spells.

[NeonAnodyne]

Is multiclassing allowed? Cause a few druid levels would be useful.

Multiclassing is allowed, but would need major in-game justification. Also, due to the DM's adherence to the "no use of metal for Druids" rule makes the notion incompatible for this build, unfortunately.


Some kind of Cleric dip would get you Healing Word + Bless + Guidance + ...

This is a lot more viable and absolutely worth adding to my list of considerations...I think I could swing this with a little effort, and it is a relief to know your personal experience has not made you regret it so far.

[NeonAnodyne]

I've played an arcane trickster...I'm not sure that having a bunch of feats with once/day casting of certain spells is really going to feel the same as having spell slots along with those once/day uses.

This is as I suspected, I guess my overarching concern is the utility tradeoff for damage output (via Assassin Features) and trying to speculate whether it's worth forgoing classics such the much-lauded Booming Blade/Cunning Action/Disengage combo.


of your table uses the rules as written that impose disadvantage on perception checks (-5 on passive, disadvantage on rolls) when using darkvision to see in darkness - then getting devils sight from warlock is a significant benefit since you can find doors/traps/anything else you need to see, as easily in complete darkness as if it was well lit. This really fit into my concept of a rogue being able to operate well in complete darkness. In addition, you pick up two short rest first level spell slots which can be very useful for casting the spells provided by feats (3 levels of warlock gives you 2 2nd level slots - so that Shadow touched or Fey touched could have 3 castings of invisibility or misty step/day rather than just the one provided by the feat.)

My table does indeed use these rules, unfortunately.

In a regular game, no doubt this would be perfect, and could certainly keep me alive for awhile, but I'd be focusing more on an individualistic build.

I even previously considered the Devil's Sight, through Eldrich Initiate feat, which is a great suggestion, and not completely off the table.

However, I believe there would be an issue without some form of direct party synergy or some kind of dedicated healing/AC preserving function for my allies.

In a previous campaign, this was a problem we had to learn to adapt to...such that it became a running joke that every time we didn't have what we desperately needed, we could have relatively easily prevented or at least eased the situation by going in with some form of healing from the start, (long story.)

[Keravath]

This is as I suspected, I guess my overarching concern is the utility tradeoff for damage output (via Assassin Features) and trying to speculate whether it's worth forgoing classics such the much-lauded Booming Blade/Cunning Action/Disengage combo.



My table does indeed use these rules, unfortunately.

In a regular game, no doubt this would be perfect, and could certainly keep me alive for awhile, but I'd be focusing more on an individualistic build.

I even previously considered the Devil's Sight, through Eldrich Initiate feat, which is a great suggestion, and not completely off the table.

However, I believe there would be an issue without some form of direct party synergy or some kind of dedicated healing/AC preserving function for my allies.

In a previous campaign, this was a problem we had to learn to adapt to...such that it became a running joke that every time we didn't have what we desperately needed, we could have relatively easily prevented or at least eased the situation by going in with some form of healing from the start, (long story.)

The latter part sounds much more like a need to coordinate with the rest of the party the characters they want to play rather than any specific question about what you should play. If you want a character to fill some gaps then you should identify those gaps and choose the character based on that. In this case, however, rogue isn't necessarily the best choice - they are ok at dealing damage, they are fun to play, and with expertise can be exceptional at certain skills - stealth, perception, investigation are the most common in my experience. However, beyond that, you usually need to multiclass to pick up other abilities like healing.

Rogue/celestial warlock could give you some "healing word" like d6s to be used in emergencies as a bonus action as well as devils sight. It might synergize well with a swashbuckler since they have some abilities that key off charisma - you would also be able to take expertise in persuasion so you could be very good in social situations.

However, a lot of this could be much easier done as a bard. Particularly lore bard or possibly eloquence if you really want to dominate social encounters. Bards have healing spells, support spells, control spells, bardic inspiration, expertise - they can be a big factor on the social/skills and healing side of things. They can also pick up proficiency with thieves tools as part of their background. (the only thing they can't get skills wise is expertise in theives tools - that is rogues only).

If you can also manage a couple of levels of hexblade warlock and don't mind the delay in spell progression - the character picks up a number of useful features that make the bard more survivable and more effective in single target combat (agonizing blast is much better than vicious mockery).

As for back story and justification, it is pretty easy to imagine a character with a love of music, entertainment and knowledge, who grew up entertaining their friends, studying, being the life of the party. However, through happenstance or fate, something bad happened in their lives, perhaps a close friend or relative was murdered and they desperately wanted revenge for the loss of their close friend. During this vulnerable time, they come across a dagger or other weapon or perhaps they just start dreaming or having visions. A hand reaching out offering them the ability to achieve their goals, all they need to do is accept. The character resists, afraid of the consequences, but eventually reaches out and shakes the hand in their dreams. A level 1 hexblade warlock is born - but one much more interested in entertainment and knowledge - as time goes by they learn a bit more about the consequences of their pact but most of the time, they are the bard they want to be. (ANY class combination you might be interested in playing can be justified with a good back story and a DM that decides that it is ok).

So :) .. either play what you want to play .. or find something you think is cool that you would like to play and works better filling gaps in the party.

P.S. From experience, I've found the Hexblade 2/Lore Bard X character to be very versatile with healing, awesome skills, crowd control (depending on spell choices), medium armor+shield, martial weapon proficiency in an emergency (w booming blade if desired) and excellent ranged DPS from agonizing blast and it is mostly dependent on charisma only. (You can get some similar benefits from a level of cleric but that requires some investment in wisdom as well - one level of knowledge cleric instead of hexblade really boosts the skills aspect of the character and provides similar armor/shield benefits but doesn't really help with ranged dps ... it does slow spell progression by one level instead of 2 but you also retain full spell slot progression).

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Multiclassing is allowed, but would need major in-game justification. Also, due to the DM's adherence to the "no use of metal for Druids" rule makes the notion incompatible for this build, unfortunately.



This is a lot more viable and absolutely worth adding to my list of considerations...I think I could swing this with a little effort, and it is a relief to know your personal experience has not made you regret it so far.

Quite the opposite. My character is engaged in many aspects of our sessions and has meaningful decisions to make in combat. Healing Word, for example, is way better on a non spell caster because it doesn't restrict you from doing your main job with your action. Bless stays viable to level 20, but full casters don't want to use their concentration on it for the second half of play. Caster dips for martials can be great and can also compensate for whatever damage dealing you might think you'll lose out on. Between Bless, Booming Blade, and my Familiar, my Rogue misses less and does more damage than he would if he was single classed.

[Corran]

Multiclassing is allowed, but would need major in-game justification. Also, due to the DM's adherence to the "no use of metal for Druids" rule makes the notion incompatible for this build, unfortunately.
Druids can use metal weapons. Metal armor you dont want anyway cause it'll decrease stealth. Only problem might be if needing metal armor as part of a disguise, but that can be problematic sometimes anyway so you'd most likely want to deal with this by counting on either illusions or special/magic equipment.

The justification I leave to you and the DM. I'll just point out a few mechanical synergies in case they interest you. The main benefits by taking a few (probably 3, if I am opting for utility; though a couple more are pretty tempting) druid levels are the following: wildshape, pass without a trace, invisibility (by picking an appropriate subclass) and maybe darkvision (if you cannot or dont want to rely on a magic item for it that is; I'd generally suggest a race with darkvision, but the changeling can be very worth it for the right character who is in the right campaign).

A rogue can operate well without invisibility or darkvision, and the same holds true for assassins. In fact, I think it would be pretty cool, say, in a game world full of humans, if a rogue were to take keen mind and use it to track their way in total darkness by simply re counting their steps while in an area they surveyed before. But in a world where magic is a thing, unless it was my aim to play under self imposed restrictions and test myself, I'd aim for both the invisibility spell and darkvision on a rogue, simply because they are very useful tools to have on such characters.

Wildshape may seem redundant at first given you are a changeling (a very strong base for social stealth) with a potentially incredibly good stealth score (via any combination of expertise, pass without a trace, reliable talent, and with invisibility further backing you up), but it will have its uses, be it for an alternative and sometimes more desirable apporach at scouting/infiltration, or even as a backup and/or an escape (you dont have many of those) option when things go badly. Moreover, if your DM buys on it, wildshape has a funny interaction with the changeling's shapeshifting ability (wildshape first, then use shapeshifting on the wildshaped form). Not sure if that last one is RAW though.

Pass without a trace to boost your stealth even more, but more importantly to boost that of your allies as well. Makes operating stealthily in bigger numbers a more reliable option, and in some tables this is extremelly important for assassins (and under certain party compositions for scouts too).

The above were the highlights, but being a prepared caster means you dont have to settle just with those.

Control flames can be used to mess with ligting (good for rogues who can hide with their bonus action in combat; also good for creating the conditions that would allow for a stealth check when out of combat) or to create a distraction (set something on fire stealthily from some distance).

Guidance and mold earth should need no introduction (and if they do, a quick search will give you the idea).

Mending has some fun utility uses outside of repairing arrows and other equipment. Best one I've heard is to use it to hide things inside small objects that you break and then mend (for one that could be useful for just a little of added safety and lots of style when passing info to someone).

Shape water is another cantrip with enough creative uses. Haven't used it myself, but again, a quick search will easily give you some ideas that you may find interesting when/if using this cantrip.

Detect magic is useful for scouts, thieves and generally for people who try to be in places they shouldn't. The lowly alarm is only a 1st level ritual, so at the very least you should expect it to pop up often in places that are supposed to be secure. Detecting magic traps is of course only the one side of the coin, and your thieves' tools wont/shouldn't always be enough to replicate dispel magic, but one grabs what one can get.

I'll speed this up a bit. The spells that affect animals (animal friendship, animal messenger, speak with animals, and either beast bond or beast sense, I forget which is which) can help at scouting, delivering messages/small items and gathering information. Saying that they can, not that they definitely will. Fog cloud is great in some situations, but it can become a stapple for rogues when they get blindsense at higher levels (earlier if they get blind fighting from a feat). Longstrider turns you into a proper kite (kiter?), though consider it for allies if kiting is a team effort. Absorb elements and protection from good and evil are combat spells, the first does not have the best synergy with evasion but when you'll know beforehand that you'll need it, then it will benefit you preparing it. Protection from evil is situationally useful (eg when you want to protect against mind control or when you find yourself tanking against certain enemies). Healing word for yo yo healing. There are also spells like charm person and jump that can theoritically be useful and you may end up finding more usefu than I have. Some decent spells at 2nd level, like enhance ability, heat metal, locate object, protection from poison, etc, though I'd generaly expect my 2nd level slots to be used mostly with spells like invisibility, darkvision and pass without a trace, so look there mostly for situational value (you are a prepared caster so this suits you) and for creative and fun uses that you may come up with.

The druidic language is also a nice touch for someome who may want to communicate things incospicuously (it's like a second thieves' cant, only a little more esoteric). So long you have some druid contracts that is.


Generalizing,
for an assassin rogue main, I think some druid levels add a bit of useful magic and utility, along with some combat perks too (most of them situational, with healing word and with the potential of fog cloud being the highlights imo; though I wouldn't be dipping mostly for combat). For a heavy rogue build I'd probably prefer arcane trickster though. You dont get the bang of the assassin, but the spells make up for it. If you eye assassins mostly for the good alpha strike, I'd also suggest a gloomstalker ranger (most likely with a fighter dip). And if you wanted to combine the alpha strike with magic and social shenanighans -the kind of character that when there is an opportunity you feel comfortable sending off to do risky things on the background while bringing in a temporary replacement character, I'd probably look at a hexblade with a small dip in rogue just to get assassinate). There are a lot more options, just pointing out here the ones I like the best as food for thought.

[Rashagar]

One feat I really like for magical shenanigans is Eldritch Adept (Misty Visions) for at-will Silent Image.

It might be just me but I find myself a lot more likely to engage in shenanigan-play if I have a (more limited) toolkit that has infinite uses.

[Chronos]

At-will Silent Image is good, but it's got heavy overlap with at-will Minor Illusion, and the cantrip also has benefits over it (no concentration, no verbal component, can make sounds). And it takes a whole feat to pick up Silent Image, but only a fraction of a feat for Minor Illusion. Overall, I think I'd rather take Magic Initiate.

[NeonAnodyne]

So, last weekend we had our session 1, and things went pretty well! l will be starting at Level 1, and this time, it seems unfortunately, my party is combat aversive, which likely means I won't be leveling up soon.

It's going to be a slow burn, folks! Which makes this thread more of an academic exercise that I will likely return to at a far later date. :biggrin:

As Keravath and others have suggested, I've reached out to my party members to coordinate and found them more than willing to cover certain 'blind spots'.

I've been also consulting the DM and they belive many of the suggestions here are viable, though they urge me to think in long term. (There is no telling how long this campaign will last.)

Upon much deliberation I've decided to go Shadar-Kai...Arcane Trickster after all, supplemented with Druid Spells, Fey Lineage, and Devil's Sight. (When possible.)

I want to thank everyone for their excellent suggestions here! I'll put a pin in this for now and intend to return at a more feasible juncture.