Races with the most non claw natural attacks

[Brennan1612]

I'm looking for races that have the most natural attacks, not including claws, no anthropomorphic animals, no more than 2 level adjustment, some racial HD is fine but I would prefer as little as possible please.
Thank you in advance!

[pabelfly]

Insectile template in Savage Species will give you four extra limbs and some solid stat boosts for 2LA. Add the multiweapon fighting feat and go to town.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A warforged with Improved Unarmed Strike, Snap Kick, the Jaws of Death feat, Improved Trip, Great Cleave, and Combat Reflexes has 2 slams, 1 bite, however many unarmed strikes you get due to your BAB + haste + Great Cleave + Improved Trip, and 1 unarmed strike from Snap Kick for your full attack and for every time you gain extra attacks from Combat Reflexes and (possibly) Improved Trip and Great Cleave.

You can improve this further with feats like Double Hit, grafts like the warforged might arms, and templates like insectile. Lots of potential with spells and powers, as well.

[Gruftzwerg]

The cheapest way (in terms of LA and RHD) to get the most natural attacks is via the monk's unarmed strike ability combined with the (Improved) Multiattack feat.


- A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet.
- The monk's US ability may count as Natural Weapon for spells and effects.
- The general rules for Natural Weapons are not an effect (they are just plain rules), but a feat produces an "effect".
- Thus for the purpose of (Improved) Multiattack, a monk's unarmed strike(s) can be used as secondary (natural) attacks.

So, you pick one body part (left or right hand/elbow/knee/feet) for your regular US from BAB and use all the remaining body parts as secondary natural weapon attacks. = 7 secondary attacks with US.
And as long as you don't use any other weapons, you can still legally use Flurry (since you sole use US, even if you use em as NW).

A single lvl dip into a (pr)class with monk's unarmed strike and a single feat are really cheap investments for the amount of attacks you can get.

Note that this interaction has been recently discovered and your DM may disagree or just ban this option due to balancing ;)

This interaction was not intended by the designers (we have evidence for that), but it is 100% RAW. So take this with care.

[AsuraKyoko]

The cheapest way (in terms of LA and RHD) to get the most natural attacks is via the monk's unarmed strike ability combined with the (Improved) Multiattack feat.


- A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet.
- The monk's US ability may count as Natural Weapon for spells and effects.
- The general rules for Natural Weapons are not an effect (they are just plain rules), but a feat produces an "effect".
- Thus for the purpose of (Improved) Multiattack, a monk's unarmed strike(s) can be used as secondary (natural) attacks.

So, you pick one body part (left or right hand/elbow/knee/feet) for your regular US from BAB and use all the remaining body parts as secondary natural weapon attacks. = 7 secondary attacks with US.
And as long as you don't use any other weapons, you can still legally use Flurry (since you sole use US, even if you use em as NW).

A single lvl dip into a (pr)class with monk's unarmed strike and a single feat are really cheap investments for the amount of attacks you can get.

Note that this interaction has been recently discovered and your DM may disagree or just ban this option due to balancing ;)

This interaction was not intended by the designers (we have evidence for that), but it is 100% RAW. So take this with care.

What's the logic on Multiattack allowing you to designate all your other hands/feet/knees/elbows as secondary? I don't really see it. Is it based on the fact that Multiattack has to do something for your US, and thus you can have them count as secondary? If so, that's some pretty sketchy reasoning.

[Gruftzwerg]

What's the logic on Multiattack allowing you to designate all your other hands/feet/knees/elbows as secondary? I don't really see it. Is it based on the fact that Multiattack has to do something for your US, and thus you can have them count as secondary? If so, that's some pretty sketchy reasoning.

1: Feats produce an Effect
2: Multiattack works with Natural Weapons
3: Monk's US may count as Natural Weapon for effects.
4: Normally when you use a limb, you can't use the same limb for other attacks (e.g. manufactured weapon and claw attack with the same limb doesn't work)
5: Monk's US mechanically changes the "limbs"-rule into the mentioned "body parts" (fists, elbows, knees, feet).

Thus, the monk designates a body part for his regular US and can designate the remaining body parts as secondary natural weapon attacks (with the help of Multiattack). Without Multiattack, there is no "effect" where the monk could use his special US ability. But because the feat produces an effect, the monk can pretend that his US are NW for the purpose of Multiattack. And Multiattack gives the monk the ability to use those NW at sole a -2 penalty as secondary attacks. Imp. Multiattack reduced the penalty to -0. Thus you get a bunch of NW attacks at max BAB.

Very cheesy, but imho 100% RAW. But as said, don't expect that your DM will allow this at your table. It's high lvl optimization and might break your game balance (if your teammates don't play optimized or high tier builds to their power). On the other hand, if you are a monk competing with an optimized Wild Shaping druid, this might be the solution to give you the edge at least in your "niche".

[loky1109]

Thus, the monk designates a body part for his regular US and can designate the remaining body parts as secondary natural weapon attacks (with the help of Multiattack).

No, he can't. US is one single natural weapon. Doesn't matter foot, head or hand. Body parts aren't natural weapons.


It's high lvl optimization
It's high lvl disfunctional reading.

[Gruftzwerg]

No, he can't. US is one single natural weapon. Doesn't matter foot, head or hand. Body parts aren't natural weapons.


It's high lvl disfunctional reading.

It's the same with claws from different limbs.
That's why I said, that the monk changes the limb rule into body parts.

Like a creature with claws can designate each (unused) clawed limb as secondary NW for Multiattack, a monk can designate each (unused) US body part as secondary NW for Multiattack.

[AsuraKyoko]

1: Feats produce an Effect
2: Multiattack works with Natural Weapons
3: Monk's US counts as Natural Weapon for effects.
4: Normally when you use a limb, you can't use the same limb for other attacks (e.g. manufactured weapon and claw attack with the same limb doesn't work)
5: Monk's US mechanically changes the "limbs"-rule into the mentioned "body parts" (fists, elbows, knees, feet).

Thus, the monk designates a body part for his regular US and can designate the remaining body parts as secondary natural weapon attacks (with the help of Multiattack). Without Multiattack, there is no "effect" where the monk could use his special US ability. But because the feat produces an effect, the monk can pretend that his US are NW for the purpose of Multiattack. And Multiattack gives the monk the ability to use those NW at sole a -2 penalty as secondary attacks. Imp. Multiattack reduced the penalty to -0. Thus you get a bunch of NW attacks at max BAB.

Very cheesy, but imho 100% RAW. But as said, don't expect that your DM will allow this at your table. It's high lvl optimization and might break your game balance (if your teammates don't play optimized or high tier builds to their power). On the other hand, if you are a monk competing with an optimized Wild Shaping druid, this might be the solution to give you the edge at least in your "niche".

Honestly, I like the end result of this, since it gives monks a nice boost, and is honestly rather elegant - you get one attack per hand/foot/elbow/knee, which makes a certain amount of intuitive sense (more sense than a lot of things that are way less questionable, rules-wise). I'm actually considering basing some monk homebrew based on this for my table and see what everyone thinks.

That being said, I don't buy that it actually works in an airtight manner. The key point of contention is based on these two passages:


A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.


Unarmed Strike
A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. A Small character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage. A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at her option. The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike.

There is nothing that gives monks additional "Unarmed Strike weapons", nor is there any indication that characters have multiple "Unarmed Strike weapons" under the weapon description. The quoted passage refers to "A monk's unarmed strike" in the singular, and this is the passage specifically referring to it as a weapon, as opposed to as an attack.

The weird ambiguity in the wording has to do with the fact that "strike" is used both to refer to the "Unarmed Strike weapon", and the action of striking unarmed. In most cases in the ability text, you can seamlessly replace the word "unarmed" with some other descriptor (like, for example, sword), and it makes just as much sense.

However, the quoted portion does not work; saying that a monk's "sword strikes" are considered a natural weapon is clearly weird. A sword strike isn't a weapon, it's an action, and so in this case it's pretty clear that "strike" is being used as a noun, since saying that a monk's sword is considered a natural weapon makes sense (grammatically, that is. A sword is not a natural weapon.)

We we do the converse, and replace the term "Unarmed Strike" with "sword", we get this:


Sword
At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Sword as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make swords with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her swords.

Usually a monk’s swords deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A monk’s sword is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A monk also deals more damage with her swords than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Monk. The unarmed damage on Table: The Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage.

In the bolded portion, it's clear that "Strike" was being used to refer to the action and not the 'weapon', since monks do not create their own weapons.

TL;DR - the word Unarmed Strike is used in a singular manner when referring to the "Unarmed Strike as a weapon", and in a plural manner when referring to the action of striking with said weapon. Because of this, it's pretty clear that, by the rules, a monk only has a single unarmed strike, they can just use different body parts for it.

[loky1109]

It's the same with claws from different limbs.
That's why I said, that the monk changes the limb rule into body parts.

No. Creature with claws from two limbs has TWO claw attack. Monk has one US, doesn't matter how many limbs he has.


Like a creature with claws can designate each (unused) clawed limb as secondary NW for Multiattack, a monk can designate each (unused) US body part as secondary NW for Multiattack.
First. Most creatures with main natural weapon claw has both claws main. But even if it has only one, there are examples, it's one of numbers. And yes, creature can select one from many. But monk doesn't have numbers US, he has one. Single. Nothing to select from.

[Chronos]

For comparison, a hawk (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hawk.htm) has two talons, but only a single natural weapon that encompasses both of them.

On the other hand, a monk's entire body being one single natural weapon can also be cheesed. If you can make your body count as magical, then you can attach weapon crystals to it, and do things like give your body a hardness.

[loky1109]

On the other hand, a monk's entire body being one single natural weapon can also be cheesed. If you can make your body count as magical, then you can attach weapon crystals to it, and do things like give your body a hardness.

Monk's body isn't natural weapon. Unarmed Strike is. Monk can use US with any body part, but this doesn't make his body a weapon.

[Darg]

Monk's body isn't natural weapon. Unarmed Strike is. Monk can use US with any body part, but this doesn't make his body a weapon.

His body is a weapon though. Just like how a minotaur has 2 horns to gore you with, you have a whole body to unarmed strike with. A dragon has 4 limbs with claws and yet only has 2 claw attacks. The number of weapons available do not matter, all that matters is how many attacks you have. The attack is the weapon type (gore) performed by the specific weapon (horns).

The reason why UAS wouldn't benefit from the multiattack feat is that it doesn't make secondary attacks. The PHB only identifies iterative attacks as "additional attacks" and the MM identifies secondary attacks as those made by secondary weapons. UAS cannot be a secondary weapon.

[Gruftzwerg]

(I'll skip the quotes, since some people have made overlapping statements and I think it would look to messy. If I should have skipped any arguments, pls let me know ;) )

1. Name != Rule

Just the name "Unarmed Strike" (singular) doesn't make a rule. I assume nobody wouldn't argue that "Power Attack" (singular) is limited to a single attack just because the name implies a single attack. Same here, the name has no impact on the rules presented (see 3.).


2. Monk's US != whole body

By RAW, the body parts list is finite and thus excludes the "head" (and the torso if wanna be explicit). Which is still a legal option for regular US, you just can't flurry with headbutts or gain other "monk's US benefits" with em (not even the increased dmg).


3. amount of monk's US attacks

The monk's amount of normal US attacks are defined by the BAB rules, not by the amount of US body parts/limbs a monk has.

But the rules for the amount of Natural Weapon attacks are based on the amount of body parts/limbs that feature that Natural Weapon, and not on your BAB.

Thus when the monk fakes that his US as NW for Multiattack, he replies that he has up to 8 (!unused!) body parts (left and right: fists, elbows, knees, feet) that feature that Natural Weapon. But when he uses one of those parts for his regular US attacks from BAB, he will reply with 7 unused body parts.


edit: regarding the Dragon only have 2 Claws argument
Dragons have 2 Claw attacks called out by the rules.
A monk's US also calls out how many US he has (L+R fists, elbows, knees, feet). It's just that the amount of US is not the amount US attacks you get normally. That is as said, because US normally work under the BAB rules.
But with Multiattack, they get to operate under Natural Weapon rules. This is the reason why imho this combo works.

[Beni-Kujaku]

(I'll skip the quotes, since some people have made overlapping statements and I think it would look to messy. If I should have skipped any arguments, pls let me know ;) )

1. Name != Rule

Just the name "Unarmed Strike" (singular) doesn't make a rule. I assume nobody wouldn't argue that "Power Attack" (singular) is limited to a single attack just because the name implies a single attack. Same here, the name has no impact on the rules presented (see 3.).
Yes.


2. Monk's US != whole body

By RAW, the body parts list is finite and thus excludes the "head" (and the torso if wanna be explicit). Which is still a legal option for regular US, you just can't flurry with headbutts or gain other "monk's US benefits" with em (not even the increased dmg).
Yes.


3. amount of monk's US attacks

The monk's amount of normal US attacks are defined by the BAB rules, not by the amount of US body parts/limbs a monk has.

But the rules for the amount of Natural Weapon attacks are based on the amount of body parts/limbs that feature that Natural Weapon, and not on your BAB.
No.
Absolutely not. The amount of Natural Weapon attacks are based on the amount of Natural Weapon attacks you get. An effect that says "you gain a claw attack" does not give you the ability to make claw attacks with all your limbs that have claws. A hawk has two talons, and makes only one attack with them. A Kraken has 8 arms and 2 tentacles, and makes 2 attacks with its tentacles and only 6 with its arms. A water elemental has no arm, yet still makes two slam attacks. Likewise, that the Unarmed Strike is considered a natural weapon does not in any way change the number of attacks you can make with it. And no, there is no link to any body part. There is no "part of the monk" that is a natural weapon, it's "unarmed strike" that is a natural weapon, which can be "made with any body part". See the difference.



Thus when the monk fakes that his US as NW for Multiattack, he replies that he has up to 8 (!unused!) body parts (left and right: fists, elbows, knees, feet) that feature that Natural Weapon. But when he uses one of those parts for his regular US attacks from BAB, he will reply with 7 unused body parts.
edit: regarding the Dragon only have 2 Claws argument
Dragons have 2 Claw attacks called out by the rules.
A monk's US also calls out how many US he has (L+R fists, elbows, knees, feet). It's just that the amount of US is not the amount US attacks you get normally. That is as said, because US normally work under the BAB rules.
But with Multiattack, they get to operate under Natural Weapon rules. This is the reason why imho this combo works.

Thus, no. And it's not really a combo. Multiattack does not do anything except reduce the penalty on secondary natural attacks. You know, the Unarmed Strike ability of the monk is an effect too, which improves the unarmed strike. So, according to your reading, a vanilla lv 1 monk can make 8 attacks, (7 of those being at a -5 penalty). Please, the rules do not work like that.

[Pezzo]

Thus when the monk fakes that his US as NW for Multiattack, he replies that he has up to 8 (!unused!) body parts (left and right: fists, elbows, knees, feet) that feature that Natural Weapon. But when he uses one of those parts for his regular US attacks from BAB, he will reply with 7 unused body parts.
That makes his natural attack unarmed strike linked to all 8 body parts, and if he uses it he can't use those body parts for anything else

[Brennan1612]

Could we please return to the main topic of Races with many non-claw natural weapons

[Beni-Kujaku]

Could we please return to the main topic of Races with many non-claw natural weapons

I believe your best bet is a Steel Wyrmling (4 RHD, LA+2). As it is, it only has one bite and 2 claws, but if you get to Medium size (probably Expansion with one level of Psychic Warrior), you get two additional wing attacks. Alternatively, you have Alternate Form which can give you any Medium animal form. If your DM allows it, then obviously Fleshraker gives it 4 attacks with poison with Trip on each of them, and Improved Trip can give you even more attacks. (seriously, why is that thing an animal that exists in the game and not a magical beast like the sea cat? Seriously, I'd accept if the Beast type from 3.0 came back just to be able to create creatures with interesting nonmagical abilities without risking druids abusing it all. Maybe make [Animal] a subtype instead would make it easier?)

Edit: And if you really want "no claws" and not "no pointy things attached to your legs", you can instead choose a Deinonychus, which has 1 talon and 2 foreclaw attacks on top of a bite attack.

[JyP]

Could we please return to the main topic of Races with many non-claw natural weapons
if you don't want anthropomorphic : awakened giant octopus ?

otherwise, other options from Savage Species :

Medusa (snakes, poison, gaze) ?
Mind Flayer (4 tentacle attacks) ?
Multiheaded template (+2 hd per head, at least +2 LA) ?

Play a Dragon Cohort using Draconomicon rules, having bite/wings attacks ?

[AsuraKyoko]

If you remove the no claws restriction, a Beguiler (from Shining South) has 2 claws, a bite, and a rake. More specifically, they have claws on all four of their limbs, as called out in the description; their hind leg claws are the Rake attack. Additionally, they have a prehensile tail that can wield a weapon.

Also, they are magical chinchillas, which is pure upside.

EDIT:
If you don't mind spending a bunch of feats on natural attacks, Warforged can get a second slam and a bite with 2 feats. Additionally, the Illithid Heritage feat line has Illithid Grapple which has 2 prerequisite feats and gives you a face tentacle attack. You can take it up to 4 times, so a Warforged can spend 8 feats to get 2 slams, a bite, and 4 tentacle attacks. It's a really hefty investment, though.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

The easiest option off the top of my head is Darfellan (Stormwrack), which get a bite attack, a swim speed, and underwater echolocation for 0 LA and 0 RHD.

Shifters (Races of Eberron, among other books) and especially Saurian Shifters (Dragon Mag 328) can get a decent number of natural weapons for zero LA, but this requires some feats and/or prestige class dips, and the weapons only exist while shifting (so only in a few fights each day).

Gorebrute gives a gore attack*, Longtooth gives a bite attack, and Widetail (Dragon Mag and thus probably Saurian Shifter only) gives a tail slap attack. You can also ask your DM if you can take Widetail without being a Saurian Shifter, representing growing a porcupine or alligator tail or something.

The Extra Shifter Trait feat lets you pick an additional shifter trait.

1 level in the Weretouched Master prestige class lets you pick a similar benefit, with the notable addition that choosing "boar" as your animal will give you tusks and a gore attack with none of the restrictions of Gorebrute.

So that's 3 natural weapons for 0 LA, 2-3 feats, and 1-2 levels (Extra Shifter Trait requires two other [Shifter] feats, but Weretouched Master 2 gives you a bonus [Shifter] feat if you'd rather spend levels than feat slots). The [Shifter] feats you can take as prerequisites are also pretty good: Longtooth Elite adds Con damage to your bite, Shifter Multiattack is just Multiattack with a BAB requirement instead of require 3 natural weapons, Improved Natural Attack counts as a [Shifter] feat, and Shifter Savagery is amazing for natural attackers if you also have the Rage ability.

Also, Shifters trivially qualify for the Warshaper prestige class, which can give you any natural weapon your heart desires with just one level, but it takes a move action, and only while shifting, so somewhat limited for in-combat utility.


* Note that the gore attack can only be used while charging, and can't be combined with Pounce; depending on what you need the natural weapons for this may make it useless.


So a Saurian Shifter (longtooth) with Longtooth Elite, Shifter Multiattack, Extra Shifter Trait (widetail), and Weretouched Master (boar) 1 has 3 natural attacks and is generally solid, for 1 level and 3 good feats (one of which can you get as a bonus feat with a second level in WTM). Without Dragon Magazine, you could use Extra Shifter Trait (gorebrute) instead, or just drop Extra Shifter Trait entirely and have two natural attacks for 1 feat and a level (because gorebrute has some nasty limitations).