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View Full Version : Optimization Epic Abjuration Specialist (3.5e) help :)



Swampy
2022-05-04, 02:07 PM
Okay so I posted about this character before but now we're entering epic levels and i'm having difficulty deciding what to do next with the character. We just hit level 21 so we get a level and a feat. book choices are core, the completes, and krynn (dragon mag is out sadly). no other campaigns allowed. i'm tempted to just take another level of arch mage for the spell power and take epic spell penetration to further my all your magic belongs to me theme but i cant decide. We last took out a CR32 Iron Colossus without too much strain but I was almost useless since it was summoned by a god to test us. We ended up defeating it with a simple grease spell and our three breath weapons. The party is 3 wizards of different specialties, Evocation, Conjuration and Abjuration (me).

The build so far is:
Race: Sylvanesti Elf (DM required)
Stats: 20, 24, 24, 31, 24, 21
Wizard: 4 (abjuration specialist)
Wizard of High Sorcery: 1 (DM required minimum)
Master Specialist: 4
Initiate of the sevenfold veil: 7
Abjurant Champion: 2
Arch Mage: 2

Feats:
Spell Focus (Abjuration)
Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Arcane Master
Dragon Aura (Power)
Magic Disruption
Combat Casting
Elven Spell Lore
Mystic Backlash
Arcane Thesis (Shapechange)

Items of note Robes of High Sorcery, and Belt of Magnificence (+6)

Of note, through some storyline shenanigans our characters are silver dragons/sylvanesti elves, and apparently managed to get divine rank zero (go us).

So on top of what to take next, I also need help figuring out what my CL's are for each school and spell dc's.

MaxiDuRaritry
2022-05-04, 06:38 PM
More caster levels are pretty much pointless, since you don't really get anything out of them (and they can be gotten via items easily enough), so focus on nabbing things that will give you options you don't currently have. I'd suggest finding ways to get free metamagic and to bypass SR completely, such as using dweomerkeeper to make your casting supernatural, then taking an epic extrapolation to keep it going beyond level 10. Or you could use magic to alter your race to become an illithid (whether via polymorph shenanigans or a body/mind/soul swap), taking illithid savant, and eating...pretty much whatever you like, such as a race that gets spellcasting as a spell-like racial ability based on its HD, then taking Supernatural Transformation for those spell-likes to turn them into SR-less supernaturals. Or you could do the same with psionic manifesting.

Turning your wizard casting spontaneous is a good way to go, for sure. Maybe squeak into shadowcraft mage using the adaptation section and putting some focus into illusion for all of your non-abjuration spells (with higher-than-100% reality on a failed save, of course).

Add spells from other lists onto your current one. Rainbow servant, maybe?

Make sure to find ways to use your low level spells in epic. Grease on non-flying enemies without ranks in Balance is a good example.

Basically, it's time to really start cheesing it up. It's epic; you can totally get away with that, now.

Swampy
2022-05-04, 07:46 PM
Hmm I've actually gotten really good results by boosting my CL and focusing abjuration. I can take ten and beat the SR of any caster short of a God. Combined with Reaving Dispel I've stripped enemy casters of their buffs then laughed when all they can do is try to hit me with a stick and get teleported to another plane of existence for their troubles. Now, that being said if you think buffing it further would not be advantageous I might agree with you. I can't cast divine spells so can't go dweomerkeeper but looking at shoring up my weaknesses is something worth considering.

MaxiDuRaritry
2022-05-04, 08:02 PM
Dweomerkeeper is doable with Southern Magician or Alternate Source Spell.

If you want a much higher CL, you could always take a level in spellthief, take Master Spellthief, then a different arcane caster class, and theurge it with your levels in wizard? That can net you a really high CL really, really fast. Spellthief + Master Spellthief is better than another level in wizard, since it gives you several CLs and access to Master Spellthief, and any other arcane class after that just continues to boost your wizard CL, and theurge classes double up on it. Won't do anything about magic-immune enemies, though.

Swampy
2022-05-04, 08:41 PM
Dweomerkeeper is doable with Southern Magician or Alternate Source Spell.

Cant use either as Southern Magician is from Faerun and Alternate Source Spell is from Dragon Mag. Neither source is allowed.

Hmmm not seeing how spell thief/master spell thief accelerates CL any more than any other arcane spellcasting class. Other than that spell thief is kinda cool. but then again being i'll be in an adult silver dragon form anytime i'm in combat i most likely wont be sneak attacking unless i'm invisible. It's definitely worth considering over arch mage.

Anthrowhale
2022-05-04, 08:50 PM
Epic Spellcasting (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSpellcasting) is a very powerful feat, but it requires close coordination with the DM to use-and-not-break a setting.

MaxiDuRaritry
2022-05-04, 09:11 PM
Hmmm not seeing how spell thief/master spell thief accelerates CL any more than any other arcane spellcasting class.Master Spellthief stacks all of your arcane caster levels together to determine your caster level for all arcane classes. So if you're (effectively) wizard 21 + spellthief 1, your CL for both arcane classes is CL 22. But for simplicity, let's say you find an arcane/arcane theurge class that boosted both classes like mystic theurge (similar to how taking Practiced Spellcaster while theurging your arcane classes would work). So you're wizard 21/spellthief 1/theurge 10. Now you're level 32, but with the theurge class, you're effectively wizard 31/spellthief 11, and with Master Spellthief, your CL for both classes is 42, 10 levels above where it would be if you weren't theurging and just took spellthief.

So Master Spellthief wizard 21/spellthief 11 would be CL 32 for both classes.

But Master Spellthief wizard 21/spellthief 1/theurge 10 would be CL 42 for both classes.

If you instead dipped spellthief before going sorcerer 1 and theurged wizard/sorcerer, it'd leave you with a less useful spellthief dip, but you'd get MUCH better casting, and the spellthief level would let you qualify for Master Spellthief. Either way, your wizard CL goes up much higher than it would've otherwise.

Unfortunately, you lose out on the goodies that other great PrCs would grant you, such as Io7V, dweomerkeeper, and war weaver.

Swampy
2022-05-04, 09:31 PM
Hmmm War Weaver looks good, as I'm usually buffing the other two wizards to save their behinds.

MaxiDuRaritry
2022-05-04, 09:37 PM
Hmmm War Weaver looks good, as I'm usually buffing the other two wizards to save their behinds.War weaver 5 / legacy champion X to progress war weaver so you can buff with even higher level spells?

Swampy
2022-05-06, 02:07 PM
So because of my character specialty and the makeup of the group I decided to just take arch mage but instead of epic spell pen, i'll be taking epic spellcasting for the exciting flavor of creating epic spells (10th level spells).

DM says my CL and Spell DC calculations look off so I have to go back through step by step and show my work. Epic Wizardry is hard work lol.