1st level feat advice

[MadBear]

I'm going to be playing a ranged character in an upcoming campaign. The class itself is the Beastheart (From MCDM, an awesome company you should check out). The gist of the class is that you get an animal companion that uses your bonus action to command. I won't bore you with all the details, but this class gets no multi-attack, and the only damage bump that the PC gets (the pet get's more of the ability bumps) comes at level 8 by adding an extra d8 to damage.

Since the character will never roll more then 1 attack doing at most 2d8 damage, is sharpshooter or the Ranged fighting style the better option for a level 1 feat? What would you take and why?

[JNAProductions]

Neither.

If you only ever get one attack for 2d8+stat at most, I don’t think either is a good investment.

[MadBear]

Neither.

If you only ever get one attack for 2d8+stat at most, I don’t think either is a good investment.

OOC, for an archer character that has a direwolf companion, what type of feat do you think might help flesh out the image of a hunter/stalker and their pet?

Other feats I've considered:

Alert: +5 initiative is always gonna be good since my pet acts on my turn as well. It also fits the theme if I can't be surprised
Observant: +5 to passiver perception is great, but I know DM's sometimes have a hard time remembering to use passives sometimes.
Skulker: Being able to hide more easily to gain advantage on the few shots do I do make seems nice, and in the event I miss being able to shoot again without having to rehide also seems nice.

[Kane0]

Skilled or Skill Expert (Animal Handling)
Mounted Combatant
Piercer
Healer
Observant
Inspiring Leader
Telepathic
Lucky

Edit: Elven Accuracy, Bountiful Luck, Infernal Constitution depending on race choice.

[RogueJK]

If you have the CHA to qualify, take Inspiring Leader. It will grant Temp HP to you and your party, and also your animal companion, and can be re-upped every rest. Even with just a moderate CHA of 14-16, it generates a huge amount of Temp HP each day overall, especially at higher levels.

Besides, who doesn't like the roleplaying angle of you spending 10 minutes every rest telling your Dire Wolf that he's a good boy... yes he is... who's a good boy, and the now-happy wolf doing better in combat as a result.


If you don't qualify for Inspiring Leader due to a low CHA, then the Chef feat is another option for a much smaller amount of Temp HP generation to boost your wolf, and is a half-feat to compensate for the lesser Temp HP. You could increase your WIS or CON, and learn to make hearty meals to help your allies and your wolf heal at the end of the day, plus bake several tasty doggie treats each day to grant your Wolf Temp HP a few times throughout the adventuring day.


Or, since you're only getting one Attack per turn, consider what else you could be doing with your Action in combat besides making a plain weapon attack in order to better assist your allies. Maybe take the Crusher feat and use a Sling for ranged Bludgeoning damage with 5' of forced movement for some battlefield repositioning, shoving enemies off cliffs, into hazard spells, and away from allies who want to escape without taking the Disengage action. Or maybe take the Magic Initiate feat to pick up a cantrip that would eventually scale to outdamage your lone weapon attack and that also has a handy rider effect like Ray of Frost or Chill Touch or Thorn Whip. Maybe skip the ranged weapon altogether, and instead focus on STR and take the Skill Expert Athletics feat, then plan to grapple+prone enemies to aid your Wolf and your other melee allies with Advantage on their better and more numerous melee attacks. (Having you wrestle someone to the ground so your wolf can more easily chomp on them seems like great teamwork to me!)


While thematic for a wilderness stalker, you won't get much mechanical benefit in combat from taking the Skulker feat and Hiding. Combat Hiding is intended for something like a Goblin or a Rogue, who can BA Hide. (Which you can't do, and your BA is taken up by commanding your Companion anyway.) You'd have to spend your Action to Hide, then wait until the next turn to try to take one shot at Advantage. So you'd be better off just taking two shots, one Attack in each of those two turns, because then you'd at least have a chance at two hits for two instances of damage, rather than just the single damage option from the every-other-turn Advantage from Hiding.

[Speely]

OOC, for an archer character that has a direwolf companion, what type of feat do you think might help flesh out the image of a hunter/stalker and their pet?

Other feats I've considered:

Alert: +5 initiative is always gonna be good since my pet acts on my turn as well. It also fits the theme if I can't be surprised
Observant: +5 to passiver perception is great, but I know DM's sometimes have a hard time remembering to use passives sometimes.
Skulker: Being able to hide more easily to gain advantage on the few shots do I do make seems nice, and in the event I miss being able to shoot again without having to rehide also seems nice.

I really like Alert for this. Having you and the wolf go first much of the time not only translates into doing damage sooner, but also you positioning for a fight in a way that keeps you safer.

[CTurbo]

Only 1 big attack? Sounds like a Booming Blade spammer to me. Magic Initiate for Booming Blade would be great. You could even take Find Familiar too lol

Alert or Inspiring Leader would be great too.

[Keravath]

I didn't know anything about the Beastheart class so I read a review. The class only gets one attack and it is pretty minimal. The companions are not just animals but include versions of monsters like a bullette or basilisk. From what I read, it is a class built almost exclusively around the companion rather than the character. They even have an ability called "Master Caregiver" - really the character is there to support the companion (who can actually rampage and attack adjacent friends and enemies in the fight if you don't keep it under control - the rules for companions and abilities were apparently fairly comprehensive).

https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/classes/mcdm-beastheart/

Given all of that, there is very little you can or should do to make your attack more effective - it isn't the point of the class and isn't really worth any investment at all. If you want a mainly ranged class with an animal companion you might be better off with one of the revised Beastmaster rangers. This class appears to be focused on the power of the companion as the primary party contribution.

If you want to use melee attacks then picking up shillelagh through magic initiate might be a good bet according to the article. Controlling your companion is heavily dependent on the Animal Handling skill and your wisdom. Wisdom is likely the primary stat for the class for this reason - so shillelagh plays into that by allowing you to use wisdom on your attack rolls.

Alert is always a good feat for several reasons though I don't know how the companion's initiative is determined - if it shares your initiative then this becomes a bit better.

Booming blade will improve your melee attacks by a d8 every tier so it is worth considering acquiring but you only have one weak attack that doesn't get stronger - so you probably don't want to put too much effort into it.

One of the later abilities you can pick up seems to be advantage on perception checks which includes +5 to passive (might be through your companion) so Observant is perhaps overkill - though you could boost your wisdom by +1 and your passive by another +5 - making it very hard for you to miss anything.

Other than that, it is up to you.

However, this isn't really a hunter/stalker with a pet, it is more of a caregiver/hunter with a monstrous companion (I didn't see a full list of the choices). The character may be well suited to tracking things down but it is really the companion that goes in for the kill (though you could apparently ride the bullette companion as it tunnels underground :) ).

[Keltest]

Only 1 big attack? Sounds like a Booming Blade spammer to me. Magic Initiate for Booming Blade would be great. You could even take Find Familiar too lol

Alert or Inspiring Leader would be great too.

Given that Booming Blade is melee only and this is a ranged character, that seems less than ideal.

[CTurbo]

Given that Booming Blade is melee only and this is a ranged character, that seems less than ideal.

Look I never claimed to be able to read lol

Ok so yeah it's there in his very first sentence. Not sure how I missed it.

[Greywander]

From what I read, it is a class built almost exclusively around the companion rather than the character.
With this in mind, consider support feats such as Inspiring Leader, Healer, Ritual Caster, Chef, Telekinetic, or, if a halfling, Bountiful Luck.

Alternatively, this might be a good class for a mounted build. Mounted Combatant will at least give the pet free Evasion.

[Frogreaver]

What’s the beast damage look like? Single big attack? Multi attack?

[Jervis]

Having your BA tied up is a biggie. Do you have spell slots? If so that changes the action economy a lot. I’m gonna assume that extra 1d8 is weapon only. Magic initiate might actually be a better option here. Cantrip scaling for Toll the Dead will outpace your weapon damage somewhat quickly. In fact it averages out 15 damage vs the 14 of 2d8 + 5 at level 8.

[RogueJK]

Cantrip scaling for Toll the Dead will outpace your weapon damage somewhat quickly. In fact it averages out 15 damage vs the 14 of 2d8 + 5 at level 8.

Even if the enemy is already damaged, Toll the Dead is only doing 13 (2d12) at Level 8.

The average roll of a d12 is 6.5, not 7.5.

However, in Tier 3 and Tier 4, Toll the Dead continues to scale, whereas the lone weapon attack doesn't.

But since you're already (presumably) doing decent damage with your BA companion attack, I'd focus more on finding a cantrip with a bit of damage plus a useful rider. Like my previous suggestions of Thorn Whip, Chill Touch, or Ray of Frost. (Mind Sliver, Vicious Mockery, or even Sapping Sting could be other good options.)

The rider effect will be more impactful than another 2-3 points of damage from a cantrip with a bigger damage dice but no additional effect, like Fire Bolt or Toll the Dead.


Or, since your Bonus Action and your Companion are doing the heavy lifting, this frees up your Action to even do alternate non-damaging stuff like Dodge, or Help, or Grapple, or Shove.

[Jervis]

Even if the enemy is already damaged, Toll the Dead is only doing 13 (2d12) at Level 8.

The average roll of a d12 is 6.5, not 7.5.

However, in Tier 3 and Tier 4, Toll the Dead continues to scale, whereas the lone weapon attack doesn't.

But since you're already (presumably) doing decent damage with your BA companion attack, I'd focus more on finding a cantrip with a bit of damage plus a useful rider. Like my previous suggestions of Thorn Whip, Chill Touch, or Ray of Frost. (Mind Sliver or even Vicious Mockery could be other good options.)

The rider effect will be more impactful than another 2-3 points of damage from a cantrip with a bigger damage dice but no additional effect.


Or, since your Bonus Action and your Companion are doing the heavy lifting, this frees up your Action to even do alternate non-damaging stuff like Dodge, or Help, or Grapple, or Shove.

Ah dang it I messed up the math, but yeah cantrips with riders is a good idea.

[sambojin]

Don't know much about the Beastheart class (read the guides, so know a bit), but you can't go wrong with Alert. Getting both your and your monster's attack early (possibly with a lockdown rider) is great. Also lets you start up your ferocity building before the enemy starts moving into inconvenient positions.

Another possible option is Fey Touched for Bless. But only if the monster uses your attack stats like Summons do. Then you Bless yourself, both you and the monster gets the bonus, as do two other team members. It might be worthwhile looking at MC'ing in a level of Wizard/ Cleric/ Druid if this is the case, so you've got plenty of slots to make it worthwhile. Even warlock would work pretty well.

What sort of creature are you thinking of taking? And what race are you? Because riding around on a dragon wyrmling as an old-kobold looks pretty fun (it's mostly for melee, but it'll work with your pack tactics when you do fly in, so you can change from a bow/breath shooter to sword/claw shredder pretty well).

[Kane0]

Maybe even hobgoblin to use the help action with extra goodies on your companion

[RogueJK]

Maybe even hobgoblin to use the help action with extra goodies on your companion

Commanding your Companion requires your Bonus Action. New-Hobgoblin's enhanced Help also requires your Bonus Action.

The UA version of the new "Feywild" Hobgoblin allowed the boosted Help effects to be applied anytime the Hobgoblin used Help. But as published in MotM, the final version of the new Hobgoblin's Fey Gift ability reads (bold emphasis mine):

"Fey Gift: You can use this trait to take the Help action as a bonus action, and you can do so a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus. You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest. Starting at 3rd level, choose one of the options below each time you take the Help action using this trait..."

Therefore, the Temp HP/speed/Disadvantage rider options from Fey Gift only apply when using the special Bonus Action Fey Gift Help. They can't be applied if using the standard Help as an Action, and a Mastermind Rogue new-Hobgoblin couldn't use the added effects with their Master of Tactics ability's Bonus Action Help either.


So you could boost your Companion with Fey Gift's BA boosted Help, but then you don't have a second BA with which to command the Companion to do anything that turn.

[Greywander]

I'm curious to hear back from the OP, as there's been a lot of activity in this thread since their last reply.

The more I think about it, the less I feel like this class might be suited for an archer build. It seems like the companion is the focus of the class, in which case you're probably best off building around supporting your compainion. Imagine, for example, getting up close and shoving an enemy prone so that your companion has advantage on all of their attacks against that enemy. That might very well provide more value than making a single attack with an extra 1d8 damage.

That said, perhaps the OP just really wants to play an archer. That's fine, of course, but it's not necessarily optimized. If they're set on playing a ranged character, we can see what we can do to optimize around that, but if they're open to other options then those are worth exploring, too.

[SVamp]

I don’t think you can get a powerful singe attack that’s keyed off wisdom. Don’t waste resources on it.

[Master O'Laughs]

Even if the enemy is already damaged, Toll the Dead is only doing 13 (2d12) at Level 8.

The average roll of a d12 is 6.5, not 7.5.

However, in Tier 3 and Tier 4, Toll the Dead continues to scale, whereas the lone weapon attack doesn't.

But since you're already (presumably) doing decent damage with your BA companion attack, I'd focus more on finding a cantrip with a bit of damage plus a useful rider. Like my previous suggestions of Thorn Whip, Chill Touch, or Ray of Frost. (Mind Sliver, Vicious Mockery, or even Sapping Sting could be other good options.)

The rider effect will be more impactful than another 2-3 points of damage from a cantrip with a bigger damage dice but no additional effect, like Fire Bolt or Toll the Dead.


Or, since your Bonus Action and your Companion are doing the heavy lifting, this frees up your Action to even do alternate non-damaging stuff like Dodge, or Help, or Grapple, or Shove.

If Tasha's is allowed, then you could always take Blessed Strikes instead of Divine Strike which lets you add 1d8 radiant damage to weapon and cantrip attacks. That would allow Toll the Dead to average 17.5 Damage (2d12+1d8) and have the odd interaction of doing both radiant and necrotic damage.

[Odessa333]

Hm, I can't find the stats for the class, but I wonder if Eldritch blast with the repositioning abilities would combo well? Cantrips to pull/push enemies into your companion's way, mouth, etc. Would still give you a ranged option to do something, and potentially aid your buddy.


If you really want to be an archer (I don't blame you, I've done a build like that) you can take feats for it like archery style and sharpshooter, but a ranger would get the archery style as part of the class and you could take the sharpshooter feat at level 1 and have both sooner, and have more archery options. Avoiding ranger, I'd say take sharpshooter at level 1, and you can dip into Fighter for a fighting style at level 2 (plus weapons/armor/etc). Otherwise you won't get both until level 4 (or level 8 depending on race).


As another idea, there might be some synergy with the rogue 'steady aim' (advantage if you do not move) and elven accuracy if you are an elf, assuming you ride your buddy. It's probably too much investment to make worthwhile, but something I thought of, at least.

[RogueJK]

If Tasha's is allowed, then you could always take Blessed Strikes instead of Divine Strike which lets you add 1d8 radiant damage to weapon and cantrip attacks. That would allow Toll the Dead to average 17.5 Damage (2d12+1d8) and have the odd interaction of doing both radiant and necrotic damage.

The discussion was about a PC with the 3rd party Beastheart class potentially taking the Magic Initiate Wizard/Cleric feat to gain the Toll the Dead cantrip... Not a PC with the Cleric class, or a Beastheart multiclassing into Cleric for 8 levels.

AFAIK, the Beastheart doesn't get Divine Strike, nor would the Tasha's Optional Class Abilities for a Cleric apply to the Beastheart.

[MadBear]

Thanks all for the good/interesting advice I'm seeing so far. Just to help clarify for the Beastheart the damage of the creature starts as 1d6+ Proficiency bonus. However, this is just the baseline attack damage. The companion also builds up a resource called ferocity that lets it deal various effects as it levels. The amount of ferocity is 1d4+enemies within 5 ft. The companion always acts on the players turn and takes the dodge action unless the player spends a bonus action to command it to make an attack and/or spend ferocity. Here is a sample stat block for a companion: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FI0MIuLVIAEbvDD.jpg

In addition the class itself adds abilities and ways to spend ferocity on the players turn. For example, you can spend ferocity to allow the companion to take the help action as a bonus action.

From levels 1-6 it takes a bonus action to command the companion, but after level 6 it's a free action.

The companions damage also increases as it gains levels as does the PC itself.

Right now, I'm really leaning towards grabbing alert for the +5 initiative.

Inspiring leader seems cool, but doesn't fit the character well. I'm also considering chef and/or observant.

Finally, I'm not completely tied to being a ranged character. Playing a character who rides the companion is also an interesting option I'm considering.