Launch Item + Orc Shotput

[gadren]

Assuming a wizard is proficient with an orc shotput...
Does the Launch Item cantrip work with the orc shotput to ignore its short range and make attacks at 100+ feet away?
It is smaller than 6" in diameter, which would make it a fine item, so it should be affected by the spell.
Would it affect how strength bonus applies to damage?

[Saintheart]

I'd be a smart@$$ and ask whether an Orc Shotput is a splash weapon.

[gadren]

I'd be a smart@$$ and ask whether an Orc Shotput is a splash weapon.

The spell description is kind of weird in that it says it is "normally" used for splash weapons, but the wording seems like any fine item is valid. "You cause a Fine item in your possession to fly at great speed to a target or location you specify, out to medium range (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)."

[Wintermoot]

"The shotput itself wrenched free of your hands and soars away across the battlefield where it clunks painfully into the face of one of the orcs way over there. Next round, they pick it up and start using it to lob alchemists fire at you."

[gadren]

"The shotput itself wrenched free of your hands and soars away across the battlefield where it clunks painfully into the face of one of the orcs way over there. Next round, they pick it up and start using it to lob alchemists fire at you."

I'm not sure how they would use the shot put to lob alchemists fire...?
I mean, an orc spellcaster could use the spell to lob alchemist fire, sure.

[Wintermoot]

TBH, I don't even know what an orc shotput is. I was assuming something like a gnome calculus, like a lacross stick for hurling things.

[Grim Portent]

TBH, I don't even know what an orc shotput is. I was assuming something like a gnome calculus, like a lacross stick for hurling things.

A shotput is a weighted ball, real ones are used for sporting competitions. I presume the orc shotput is a weaponised variant from some splatbook.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

TBH, I don't even know what an orc shotput is. I was assuming something like a gnome calculus, like a lacross stick for hurling things.A shotput is a very small but heavy metal or stone ball used to smash things from a distance via throwing. It's about large enough to hold in the hand. Even though real life shotputs are used by humans, apparently only orcs can use them in D&D, despite basically being the same thing.

I mean, humans are literally designed from the ground up by evolution to throw things. It's how we survived for millennia -- by throwing rocks at predators, food, and rival humans. And the shotput is basically a very well-designed rock. But for some reason, orcs and halflings specialize in throwing things, but not humans, which are naturally specialized at throwing things.

D&D makes no gods-damned sense sometimes.

[InvisibleBison]

There are two problems with this idea. First, launch item only lets you make an attack with splash weapons; with all other items, the item just flies away and lands non-damagingly. Second, an orc shotput weighs 15 pounds, while launch item can only target items weighing up to 10 pounds.

[tyckspoon]

A shotput is a very small but heavy metal or stone ball used to smash things from a distance via throwing. It's about large enough to hold in the hand. Even though real life shotputs are used by humans, apparently only orcs can use them in D&D, despite basically being the same thing.

I mean, humans are literally designed from the ground up by evolution to throw things. It's how we survived for millennia -- by throwing rocks at predators, food, and rival humans. And the shotput is basically a very well-designed rock. But for some reason, orcs and halflings specialize in throwing things, but not humans, which are naturally specialized at throwing things.

D&D makes no gods-damned sense sometimes.

..shotputs are actually rather terribly designed for throwing. They're too large to comfortably grip (so you can't easily control the release of it with your fingers like you would a baseball-sized object), they're too heavy to use at full extension of the arm (so you can't take advantage of lever mechanics to apply greater momentum to the release), they're not aerodynamic or designed in a way that provides any sort of stabilization in flight (like fletching or spin) for greater range and predictable path of travel, they have no pointed or cutting edges to more readily damage fleshy targets. It's literally heaving a heavy object at something. They're 'orcish' because it's only a useful weapon to something that is strong enough to brute force through how terrible a design it is for throwing, and 'orcish' culture is typically treated as favoring literal blunt approaches to problem-solving.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

..shotputs are actually rather terribly designed for throwing. They're too large to comfortably grip (so you can't easily control the release of it with your fingers like you would a baseball-sized object), they're too heavy to use at full extension of the arm (so you can't take advantage of lever mechanics to apply greater momentum to the release), they're not aerodynamic or designed in a way that provides any sort of stabilization in flight (like fletching or spin) for greater range and predictable path of travel, they have no pointed or cutting edges to more readily damage fleshy targets. It's literally heaving a heavy object at something. They're 'orcish' because it's only a useful weapon to something that is strong enough to brute force through how terrible a design it is for throwing, and 'orcish' culture is typically treated as favoring literal blunt approaches to problem-solving.Those are actually all good points. Thanks.

Doesn't do much about the "halfling skip-rock" crap, but still.

[gadren]

…though real life shotputs are used by humans, apparently only orcs can use them in D&D, despite basically being the same thing.

“Orc” being in its name doesn’t restrict it to only orcs, just like how a human willing to blow the feat can use a dwarven urgrosh, an elven thin blade, an orc double axe, or even a gnomish hooked hammer (if they can find a medium-sized one), the “orc shot put” isn’t any harder to learn than any other exotic weapon.

What’s funny is that, as far as I know, nothing in 3.5 made the orc double-axe or orc shotput easier for orcs or half orcs to use. Dwarves treat the urgrosh as a martial weapon, and gnomes treat the hooked hammer as a martial weapon, but orcs have to spend the same EWP to use an “orc” weapon that every other race does. 😂


There are two problems with this idea. First, launch item only lets you make an attack with splash weapons; with all other items, the item just flies away and lands non-damagingly. Second, an orc shotput weighs 15 pounds, while launch item can only target items weighing up to 10 pounds.
AH, THERE it is. Though I don’t think the first part is clear, I totally missed the 10 pound restriction, thank you.

[Saintheart]

What’s funny is that, as far as I know, nothing in 3.5 made the orc double-axe or orc shotput easier for orcs or half orcs to use. Dwarves treat the urgrosh as a martial weapon, and gnomes treat the hooked hammer as a martial weapon, but orcs have to spend the same EWP to use an “orc” weapon that every other race does. 😂

AFB, but doesn't Complete Warrior's rule about racial weapon familiarity extend to any weapon with the race's name in it? If not, well, maybe that's the price you pay for automatic -2 to INT.


AH, THERE it is. Though I don’t think the first part is clear, I totally missed the 10 pound restriction, thank you.

That's what Shrink Item and shouting "GET BIG AGAIN!" while the thing is in flight are for, lol ...

[FauxKnee]

I totally missed the 10 pound restriction, thank you.

You could always use shotputs made out of some special material, like mithral or something. Cut the weight in half and it fits under the ten-pound limit, but it gets kinda expensive.

[RSGA]

AFB, but doesn't Complete Warrior's rule about racial weapon familiarity extend to any weapon with the race's name in it? If not, well, maybe that's the price you pay for automatic -2 to INT.



That's what Shrink Item and shouting "GET BIG AGAIN!" while the thing is in flight are for, lol ...

The base Weapon Familiarity lets you trade out listed ones for new ones, but you don't get any expansion. So a dwarf can trade out dwarven waraxe or urgosh for the dwarved axe-buckler, but they're never going to have more than two of those special cases without spending a feat. Similarly, most orcs could trade out greateaxe or falchion as martial for orcish shotput as martial. Now if that seems strange, it's the only 3.5 thing I could find with orcs in the monster manual that fits what CW is saying, so there's that.

The Improved Weapon Familiarity feat, though, gives you all the ones with your race in the name, but that's still a feat.

[gadren]

You could always use shotputs made out of some special material, like mithral or something. Cut the weight in half and it fits under the ten-pound limit, but it gets kinda expensive.

I know that by the RAW, a 7.5 pound mithral shot put does the exact same damage as a 15 pound iron shotput, but I avoided that simply because it seems silly to me.

Though that does make me consider a houserule where mithral bludgeoning weapons have +1 attack, -1 damage, and mithral thrown weapons have 50% more range.