STR drake warden v human

[Spacehamster]

Which class would be best to start with for heavy armor if you wanted to make a STR based drake warden ranger using heavy weapons? Fighter for two handed style? Forge domain for +1 weapon and armor from start plus access to bless to help out if taking GWM? Starting ability scores 15/14/14/9/14/8 so also wondering what half feat to take for max efficiency to even out the STR? Slasher? Heavy armor master? Crusher? Piercer(pike build)?

This would be my backup in case my battle smith dies in descent into avernus.

[Gurgeh]

I'm not sure how much of an advantage you'll gain from heavy armour, to be honest; you need a minimum of 13 dexterity to multiclass in the first place, and with 14 you'll only be a single point of AC behind someone in equivalent heavy armour, and doing so means you give up on progressing your class features for at least a whole level, possibly more.

But if you're committed to it then I'd probably say Fighter for its better save proficiencies.

Take Defence fighting style to double down on the AC advantage or Superior Technique to get a manouevre of your choice (Ambush is nice on a Ranger but there are plenty of other options). Great Weapon fighting style is unremarkable on greatswords and outright bad on any other weapon.

If you're going to dip cleric then you're better off starting as a Ranger at first level for the larger hit die and better skill selection, since the Cleric subclasses' heavy armour proficiency isn't invalidated by multiclassing like it is for everybody else.

[Spacehamster]

[QUOTE=Gurgeh;25453394]I'm not sure how much of an advantage you'll gain from heavy armour, to be honest; you need a minimum of 13 dexterity to multiclass in the first place, and with 14 you'll only be a single point of AC behind someone in equivalent heavy armour, and doing so means you give up on progressing your class features for at least a whole level, possibly more.

But if you're committed to it then I'd probably say Fighter for its better save proficiencies.

Why heavy armor you say? Rule of cool my friend rule of cool! Plus if heavy armor master you also absorb damage when hit so it makes you tankier even if it’s “only” 1 more AC. :)

Also is not failing WIS saves generally worse than CON ones as they generally take you out of the combat all together? And heavy armor master also makes you take less damage making concentration checks a bit easier so it’s kinda like half proficient in CON saves. :3

[Emongnome777]

I played a campaign where our fighter had HAM and I must say that it helped far more than my white-room theory crafting expected. Even in tier 3, it was saving 30-60 hit points per adventuring day (we did 6-8 combats per day). I say go HAM at first level.

As for what to multi class into, I’m not sure. You’re melee and if you plan on using concentration spells a lot, I’d strongly consider fighter at 1st. I haven’t read DiA, but Con saves may be as useful or moreso than Wis saves. I could be wrong on that one, so your call. I do feel like you get more from Cleric 1 than Fighter 1 overall, though. Also agree with a previous poster to take defense fighting style over GWF if you go fighter.

[Spacehamster]

I played a campaign where our fighter had HAM and I must say that it helped far more than my white-room theory crafting expected. Even in tier 3, it was saving 30-60 hit points per adventuring day (we did 6-8 combats per day). I say go HAM at first level.

As for what to multi class into, I’m not sure. You’re melee and if you plan on using concentration spells a lot, I’d strongly consider fighter at 1st. I haven’t read DiA, but Con saves may be as useful or moreso than Wis saves. I could be wrong on that one, so your call. I do feel like you get more from Cleric 1 than Fighter 1 overall, though. Also agree with a previous poster to take defense fighting style over GWF if you go fighter.

Would get defense style from ranger if going fighter first tho? Altho in context it’s moot since we are level 4 so if I die with my main now or in a couple of levels I would get both fighting styles. :)

[RogueJK]

Alternatively, you can just take Heavily Armored (+1 STR) as your VHuman Level 1 feat, and not delay your Ranger levels at all. This gets you to your higher level Ranger abilities and to GWM 1 level faster, plus means your Drake Companion will have +5 HP compared to multiclassing a level for Heavy Armor.


But if you're dead-set on dipping, it basically boils down to Cleric or Fighter. Of the two, I think Cleric (specifically Twilight Cleric) is likely the optimal choice.


Cleric gets you some additional spells and slots, plus a useful 1st level subclass ability/abilities. Access to Bless to help counter GWM is usually a good idea, although Rangers have a number of other good options for Concentration spells too. In addition, you don't have to start out with Cleric to get Heavy Armor Proficiency, so you can dip at whatever point you choose and still wear Plate.

For Cleric subclass, I think the best picks are either Forge, Life, or Twilight, with Twilight probably being the overall most optimal.

-Forge is a potentially good option if your DM is stingy with the Magical or Silvered weapon, since many enemies in Avernus will be resistant to mundane weaponry. But you won't get much use out of Searing Smite, since your BAs are taken up by your Drake and most enemies in Avernus will be resistant/immune to fire damage.

-Life could supercharge your Cure Wounds/Healing Word/Goodberry/Healing Spirit, if your party is in need of additional healing. Plus you'd already have Bless prepared as a domain spell, so you could effectively prepare an additional Cleric spell since you're going to be taking Bless either way.

-Twilight gets you shareable supercharged 300' Darkvision (especially nice on a non-Darkvision race like Human), plus Advantage on your own or a party member's Initiative. The Initiative bonus pays double dividend for a Drakewarden if used on yourself, as your Drake shares your initiative, so you'd effectively have two party members with higher Initiatives. Plus you get Sleep as a domain spell, which while it loses much of its power at higher levels, is still useful as an "off switch" for heavily wounded enemies, groups of low HP mooks, or NPCs like guards. And it doesn't allow a Saving Throw, so it isn't affected by Fiends' Magic Resistance in Avernus.


The other option is to start out as Fighter 1 for CON save proficiency, a tiny bit of additional healing with Second Wind, and a Fighting Style. Consider Blind Fighting in place of Great Weapon Fighting; it'll have greater potential benefit than occasionally eking out another point of average damage from your damage dice. (Great Weapon Fighting Style is just a middling option.) But I think that Fighter pales in comparison to all the various spell and ability benefits of Cleric.

Either way, Cleric or Fighter, I'd recommend taking Defense Fighting Style as your Ranger pick, to help make up for not being able to wield a shield. Plus it's appropriate for a heavily armored behemoth.


With those ability score, your stated desire to dip a level and take Heavy Armor Master, and starting at 4th level in an Avernus campaign, I'd do something like this:
V. Human Twilight Cleric 1/Drakewarden Ranger 3
STR 15+1
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 9+1
WIS 14
CHA 8
Defense Fighting Style
Heavy Armor Master at Level 1, then plan on +2 STR at Ranger 4 and Great Weapon Master at Ranger 8.
(Just understand that in order to take HAM as your VHuman Level 1 feat, you're locking yourself into having to take Cleric at Level 1 since you need to already have Heavy Armor proficiency to qualify.)

Human Skill: Perception (with Expertise from the Ranger Canny ability)
Cleric Skills: Religion, Insight
Ranger Skill: Either Nature or Animal Handling
Background Skills: Athletics and Survival

Cleric Cantrips: Guidance, Mending
Ranger Cantrip: Thaumaturgy*
Cleric 1st Level Spells: Faerie Fire*, Sleep*, Bless, Protection from Good and Evil, and Detect Magic (R)
Ranger 1st Level Spells: Speak with Animals*, Fog Cloud, Absorb Elements, and Goodberry

[Stangler]

Which class would be best to start with for heavy armor if you wanted to make a STR based drake warden ranger using heavy weapons? Fighter for two handed style? Forge domain for +1 weapon and armor from start plus access to bless to help out if taking GWM? Starting ability scores 15/14/14/9/14/8 so also wondering what half feat to take for max efficiency to even out the STR? Slasher? Heavy armor master? Crusher? Piercer(pike build)?

This would be my backup in case my battle smith dies in descent into avernus.

Order cleric's voice of authority is really good.

Twilight Cleric for really good dark vision and advantage on initiative.

Life Cleric and goodberry is also a combo that may be really strong depending on how your DM interprets it.

Nature is oddly only ok unless you have a good use for the cantrip.

I think a fighter dip is probably the most boring option.

[strangebloke]

You already get the best fighting style for your build (defense) so all you're really getting from fighter is GWF and second wind. Neither is worth it. If you go deeper for subclass/action surge it could be, but level 1 doesn't buy you much here.

Cleric gets you guidance, CD, and another good ability. Absolutely worth. I'd go forge Domain, give myself +1 AC on top of defense style and plate for 20 AC while using GWM, then go ham.

Alternately, War domain for divine favor, which works better for you than hunter's mark because of bonus action competition.