Does Diehard interact with Nonlethal damage?

[SangoProduction]

So, say you have 100 hit points, take 50 damage, and 51 nonlethal damage. Typically, that means you'd be unconscious. Does Diehard interact with this in any way? If it does, does it basically mean you need to take another 51 real damage before you actually drop? I mean, sure, you were staggered and effectively taking 1 bleed / round that whole time, but that seems a reasonable exchange, if you have access to damage conversion like that.

[Gruftzwerg]

Imho Diehard doesn't help you here. It sole works when you are into negative HP. Thus non-lethal dmg could be seen as a counter for Diehard.
Fits my imagination of the Diehard ability.

If you want protection against non-lethal, you have to look elsewhere.

[FauxKnee]

By RAW, Gruftzwerg has it right--the diehard feat doesn't help in this scenario. IMO it would be fine to rule otherwise and provide that extra ten-hp buffer though; it's certainly not unbalancing to do so considering how weak diehard is.

[Doctor Despair]

In fact, a responsible DM needs to houserule Diehard to interact positively with nonlethal damage, or the Frenzied Berserker class becomes laughably weak.

[Gruftzwerg]

In fact, a responsible DM needs to houserule Diehard to interact positively with nonlethal damage, or the Frenzied Berserker class becomes laughably weak.


Deathless Frenzy (Ex): At 4th level and higher, a frenzied berserker can scorn death and unconsciousness while in a frenzy.
...
While the text moves on to sole explain the avoid "death" part, the statement is at least there. Imho RAI is that a Frenzied Berserker becomes immune to "unconsciousness" while in a Deathless Frenzy. RAW, it's debatable if the statement in the first sentence is enough or not (I can see arguments going both way).

So, nothing where you need to touch on "Diehard", it's sole a problem of Deathless Frenzy being poorly worded.

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But I agree with FauxKnee that some DM fiat wouldn't hurt here much (unless used for some kind of exploit).

[Seward]

Indeed, nonlethal damage is the go-to when dealing with things like Boars. Nonlethal damage KOs you if you exceed hitpoint total, so the ability to stay conscious at negative hitpoints doesn't really help in any way.

Of course I remember this Razortusk encounter where the damn things had fast healing 10 and DR5-, so we just had to kill them the hard way because letting them fast heal both the damage and the nonlethal damage was way too much of a PITA.

[SangoProduction]

Speaking of which: If a character has 50 hp, and takes 49 damage, and 2 nonlethal, he's knocked out, regardless of diehard.
But if he takes 2 more damage, he's now in negatives, and is back up, or are the nonlethal rules overriding that?

[Gruftzwerg]

Speaking of which: If a character has 50 hp, and takes 49 damage, and 2 nonlethal, he's knocked out, regardless of diehard.
But if he takes 2 more damage, he's now in negatives, and is back up, or are the nonlethal rules overriding that?

Diehard itself lacks the permission (by RAW) to help you in this situation:


When reduced to negative hit points, you may choose to act as if you were disabled, rather than dying. You must make this decision as soon as you are reduced to negative hit points (even if it isn’t your turn). If you do not choose to act as if you were disabled, you immediately fall unconscious.

The first sentence does give your character the permission to "choose" if you wanna act as disabled or not. Imho it doesn't work when you are already unconscious and thus can't choose/make decisions anymore. The ability doesn't give you the ability to make decisions while being unconscious.

The last sentence confirms this that if you choose not to act, you fall unconscious. And you can't fall unconscious if you already are.

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Houserule suggestion:
Imho the Diehard feat lacks a "Special:" line where it should say that it interacts with the nonlethal damage rules. Would be at least a good houserule adjustment.