Kensei fix

[Spacehamster]

Fighter subclass instead to start with.

Lvl 3: One with the blade, while wielding a longsword with two hands and wearing no armor or shield you benefit from the following, you add +1 to hit and damage and dueling applies to your damage even two handed. You can use DEX for hit and damage instead of STR.
Swift movement: while wearing no armor or shield your AC is 13 + DEX

Lvl 7: Nimble artisan, you become proficient in acrobatics and a artisan tool of your choice.

Lvl 10: Flurry of blades, as a bonus action you become a whirlwind of blades and can make two long sword attacks, you can use this action 3 times and it resets on a short or long rest.

Lvl 15: Skill beyond mortals, you have become so deadly with a blade that your attacks are anything but normal, your attacks add 1d4 necrotic or radiant damage(your choice) on a hit.

Lvl 18: mastery of life and death, once on your turn you can put your everything into a single attack, adding 5d10 to the hit. This ability resets on a short or long rest.

So what do you fine folks think? To powerful? Flavorful? Boring?

[Arcomage]

So what do you fine folks think? To powerful? Flavorful? Boring?

Missing the point a bit, I think. This does perfectly fine at being an unarmored swordmaster type subclass - I haven't fully run the math, but there's nothing that looks overpowered here. The problem is that this does pretty much nothing outside of combat still - Acrobatics proficiency and an artisan tool do not make for engaging flavor. Worse, all of the abilities are variants of Attack More / Do More Damage, which looks great in an optimization debate but makes for an end result comparable to the Champion in monotony.

Moreover, making it a Fighter subclass might make it mechanically better than it is as a Monk subclass, but it's also taking an archetype that people apparently want to play (weapon-based martial artist) and moving it into the general 'guy with sword' Fighter space that's much more generic, and the mechanics don't at all help that. Limiting all the abilities to longswords specifically takes even more away from the number of character concepts that this could feasibly represent. If you approached me as a player and asked if you could play this, I might run some numbers but I'd be likely to say yes. If you asked me whether I thought this would be a good idea to have as an official subclass to be published in some future book, I'd definitely say no.

[stoutstien]

Fighter subclass instead to start with.

Lvl 3: One with the blade, while wielding a longsword with two hands and wearing no armor or shield you benefit from the following, you add +1 to hit and damage and dueling applies to your damage even two handed. You can use DEX for hit and damage instead of STR.
Swift movement: while wearing no armor or shield your AC is 13 + DEX

Lvl 7: Nimble artisan, you become proficient in acrobatics and a artisan tool of your choice.

Lvl 10: Flurry of blades, as a bonus action you become a whirlwind of blades and can make two long sword attacks, you can use this action 3 times and it resets on a short or long rest.

Lvl 15: Skill beyond mortals, you have become so deadly with a blade that your attacks are anything but normal, your attacks add 1d4 necrotic or radiant damage(your choice) on a hit.

Lvl 18: mastery of life and death, once on your turn you can put your everything into a single attack, adding 5d10 to the hit. This ability resets on a short or long rest.

So what do you fine folks think? To powerful? Flavorful? Boring?

So you take the subclass that ppl complain is one dimensional and remove that dimension? Also the last thing a monk needs is a different option for adding melee attacks with a bonus action.

Kensei is fine. If you disregard trying to just add ~1 damage per weapon attack it actually adds a lot of flexibility to the class with whips, hand crossbow, long bow, and whatever found magic weapon that no one can leverage like a flametounge club.
Those who complain about agile parry aren't being forced to use it so it's mostly complaining for that sake of it.

[Spacehamster]

Missing the point a bit, I think. This does perfectly fine at being an unarmored swordmaster type subclass - I haven't fully run the math, but there's nothing that looks overpowered here. The problem is that this does pretty much nothing outside of combat still - Acrobatics proficiency and an artisan tool do not make for engaging flavor. Worse, all of the abilities are variants of Attack More / Do More Damage, which looks great in an optimization debate but makes for an end result comparable to the Champion in monotony.

Moreover, making it a Fighter subclass might make it mechanically better than it is as a Monk subclass, but it's also taking an archetype that people apparently want to play (weapon-based martial artist) and moving it into the general 'guy with sword' Fighter space that's much more generic, and the mechanics don't at all help that. Limiting all the abilities to longswords specifically takes even more away from the number of character concepts that this could feasibly represent. If you approached me as a player and asked if you could play this, I might run some numbers but I'd be likely to say yes. If you asked me whether I thought this would be a good idea to have as an official subclass to be published in some future book, I'd definitely say no.

Thought making it all about combat would fit the theme of a character that does nothing but train, meditate and so on, moved it to fighter since the monk subclass always felt super wrong since used to A D&D Kensei, made it long sword since sword saint and probably op if let use great swords with DEX plus 5e feels like it lacks a subclass that truly focuses into one weapon. :)

Edit: tho first idea of it were remaking it in the monk subclass, take away the bow stuff, give it dueling style and ability to use their weapon on one of their two flurry attacks and with their martial arts attack cause to me the Kensei has always been a glass cannon that dishes out a lot of damage but is fragile.

[Spacehamster]

So you take the subclass that ppl complain is one dimensional and remove that dimension? Also the last thing a monk needs is a different option for adding melee attacks with a bonus action.

Kensei is fine. If you disregard trying to just add ~1 damage per weapon attack it actually adds a lot of flexibility to the class with whips, hand crossbow, long bow, and whatever found magic weapon that no one can leverage like a flametounge club.
Those who complain about agile parry aren't being forced to use it so it's mostly complaining for that sake of it.

Well made it a fighter subclass so it’s not the monk that would get the bonus action melee attacks. :)

Don’t really have a problem with that monk subclass mechanically but it does not feel like a Kensei, it’s a kicky punch sword guy, misses the point of a master of the blade in my opinion.

[Witty Username]

I would say, melee weapon without the two-handed or heavy properties instead of longsword. But that is not a power thing, more allowing the build to apply for more concepts.

This feels more like the kensei class kit of AD&D than the 5e subclass. Make of that what you will.

I don't like the one with the blade feature referencing dueling when it is not clear if the Fighter has the dueling fighting style.
I would edit the feature to get a similar benefit without that wording. Power change would likely be minimal.

[stoutstien]

Well made it a fighter subclass so it’s not the monk that would get the bonus action melee attacks. :)

Don’t really have a problem with that monk subclass mechanically but it does not feel like a Kensei, it’s a kicky punch sword guy, misses the point of a master of the blade in my opinion.
Well once you move off the monk chassis you have an entirely new starting point. You could just rename the samurai fighter kensei

The kensei monk is closer to a form of muay thai weapon style than it's namesake. If the argument is that wizard is bad at naming stuff it be hard to disagree.

[Burley]

I also don't see this "fixing" anything. What was wrong with the Kensei in the first place and how is it fixed here? Because you switched it over to Fighter, half of your new subclass abilities are just giving it the Monk abilities back, like flurry of blows and acrobatics proficiency. So, it seems to me you're losing some abilities here in favor of a fighting style, though your One with the Blade ability sorta forces them to take the Dueling style (ignoring that Kensei can also focus on a long bow), so its really just a net loss of class abilities.

You've removed the unique proficiency (calligraphy/painting) that gave the Kensei depth and rooted in in its real-world inspiration of the monastic swordsman. And, those two proficiencies are flavorful and thematic, because they require the warrior to sit down, slow down, roll up their sleeves and practice deliberate and purposeful movements. The "fix" removes this slow and methodical mindset from the class, in favor of swinging your sword as fast as possible. Plus, the Flurry of Blades ability you gave to receive the extra attacks at level 10 is just flat-out better than the Samurai Fighter's level 15 ability that gives an extra attack, and that kind of power creep is no good.

I think you need to go back to step one and identify exactly what is wrong with the Kensei and, instead of creating an entirely different subclass with the same name, identify how you can improve on what's wrong. The Kensei would look at the Kensei and, with a quick stroke of their brush, make the slight adjustments needed toward perfection.

[clash]

This would probably be in the homebrew forum but I'll bite.


Fighter subclass instead to start with.

Lvl 3: One with the blade, while wielding a longsword with two hands and wearing no armor or shield you benefit from the following, you add +1 to hit and damage and dueling applies to your damage even two handed. You can use DEX for hit and damage instead of STR.
Swift movement: while wearing no armor or shield your AC is 13 + DEX


Others have commented on the weirdness with the dueling style here. Getting a small incremental bonus to hit and damage is very... Boring. Nothing about these third level features really make it play different than a champion with a greatsword. If the subclass doesn't feel different when you get it I would argue it needs to justify it's existence. I would give it something to do here instead of small number bonuses.



Lvl 7: Nimble artisan, you become proficient in acrobatics and a artisan tool of your choice.


Fighters already can take acrobatics proficiency and as a dex fighter, if I wanted it, I took it at level 1. The artisan tool is basically a ribbon and anything I wanted I got from my background. I would instead add a feature to maybe enhance acrobatics. Think of thief's second story work.




Lvl 10: Flurry of blades, as a bonus action you become a whirlwind of blades and can make two long sword attacks, you can use this action 3 times and it resets on a short or long rest.


This is very strong. I'm a feat game sure you're competing against polearm master and great weapon fighting. In a featless game this is much stronger damage wise than anything out there including anything the battle master gets. Keep in mind the monk only gets two attacks without flurry. In one more level the fighter already has 3 before the bonus action and with this 5. Action surge for 10 which again monk doesn't get.



Lvl 15: Skill beyond mortals, you have become so deadly with a blade that your attacks are anything but normal, your attacks add 1d4 necrotic or radiant damage(your choice) on a hit.


Paladin divine smite light version on a class often making 5-6 attacks per turn instead of 2-3. As a comparison improved divine smite does at most 3d8 ~ 13.5 extra damage per turn. This deals up to 6d4 ~ 15 damage per turn without action surge. You have a fighter with 4 attacks + monk flurry + paladin improved divine smite.

With all those features it still doesn't play any different than a champion fighter. It just gets more.




Lvl 18: mastery of life and death, once on your turn you can put your everything into a single attack, adding 5d10 to the hit. This ability resets on a short or long rest.

So what do you fine folks think? To powerful? Flavorful? Boring?

And a better version of paladin smite for more damage. 5d10 vs 5d8. Less nova potential sure but far more damage over the day.

This subclass suffers from 2 huge issues in my opinion.

1 Being far ahead of the damage curve in a featless game and probably on par in a game with feats but without any investment.

2. It plays like not having a subclass. There's nothing in here that says I'm a kensei instead of i'm a dex fighter without a subclass.

[KorvinStarmast]

I also don't see this "fixing" anything. +1

What was wrong with the Kensei in the first place and how is it fixed here? Nothing. :smallsmile:

Making a fighter sub class that captures something like Geralt of Rivia from the ground up (who is more dex based than armor based) might give the OP what they are looking for.

[Burley]

Making a fighter sub class that captures something like Geralt of Rivia from the ground up (who is more dex based than armor based) might give the OP what they are looking for.

Honestly, if I were to build Geralt, I'd use the Arcane Trickster. I mean, Eldritch Knight would be better, but if you want Dex instead of Str, Arcane Tricker. It fits well with Geralt apparently studying targets and using knowledge of unique weak points to deal extra damage. (I say apparently, because I would just hack and slash everything I saw. :smallcool:)

[Kane0]

Ive always said that kensei should have been a fighter subclass (like a monky EK) rather than a monk trying to be a fighter, but not like this. Youre locked into longswords and its all largely attack/damage increases and none of the fun monk mobility stuff.