Tank Dwarven Cleric

[Frazetta]

Looking for ideas on a Dwarven Cleric tank build for 3.5.

Suggestions on feats and skills. It’s been awhile since I’ve played 3.5.

[Gruftzwerg]

Sorry but in chase of a Dwarf I have to ask if you intent to go the full cleric route or not?

Cause if your Cleric believes in Moradin, chances are that he will become a hammer of Moradin (needs divine casting to enter, but doesn't progress it at all).

The most notable ability for tanking is the Quake ability. It gives you a cone attack that forces saves or makes your enemies prone, at will/all day long. So a 4 lvl dip (IIRC) could be worth to get it.


Another option would be Crusader/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator. Crusader and RKV will give you access to some nice tanky maneuvers and stances.

Monk/Cleric/(Divine Disciple) is an unarmed strike based build. Use Shivering Touch with unarmed full attacks for extra cheese. Quickly disable the enemies that try to engage your squishy party members.

[Biggus]

Looking for ideas on a Dwarven Cleric tank build for 3.5.

Suggestions on feats and skills. It’s been awhile since I’ve played 3.5.

What level are you starting at, and what level do you expect to finish at?

What books are available?

Are there any other divine spellcasters in the party?

[Particle_Man]

You might consider tumble for a skill, since dwarves are one of the few races that can tumble in heavy armor, albeit with an armor check penalty. That can help you get to where you want to tank.

[noce]

Melee tanking is a difficult thing to achieve in 3.5.
On the other hand, Dwarf Cleric is a solid base to be both an effective caster and an effective melee bruiser.
So, my suggestion is to use spells for battlefield control, and save or lose against dangerous enemies, while using the rest of your build to hammer at people.

For domains, I suggest either Metal or War, with War being more versatile and giving you access to the feat Holy Warrior.
If you pick War, a well known PrC to take would be Ordained Champion.
Other good feats to take are domain devotion feats. Given your race and class, both Law and Protection are appropriate: the first will help either your AC or your attack bonus (your choice), the latter will help AC of the entire party, so both help you at being a good tank (you could take them both).

Also, take a look at the dwarven cleric racial substitution levels: if you can cherry pick just the level that gives a damage bonus with hammers fine, otherwise avoid it.

[Maat Mons]

If you don't want to lose one use per day of Turn/Rebuke Undead, you could look into the Dwarven subraces that don't have a Charisma penalty.

Desert Dwarf
Pros: No Cha penalty
Cons: Dex Penalty

Dream Dwarf
Pros: No Cha penalty
Cons: No save bonus, Dex Penalty

Gold Dwarf
Pros: No Cha penalty
Cons: Dex Penalty

Korobokuru
Pros: No Cha penalty, Small size
Cons: Slowed by armor, Int Penalty

Alternately, you could go with Earth Dwarf, for the Strength bonus and double Stability.

[Saintheart]

If you're considering the role of a ranged cleric then Zen Archery is sometimes overlooked for high-WIS cleric types. It doesn't just apply to ranged weapons, it applies your WIS bonus to all ranged attack rolls. That would include all your touch attacks with ranged spells like rays and so forth and offsets your likely terrible DEX.

If you're looking at melee and considering focusing heavily on the warhammer, then in addition to the Dwarven Cleric ACF that noce has pointed out, it might be worth considering a one-level dip into the dwarf-only PrC Battlesmith (Races of Stone.) Although it doesn't advance casting, and it is really, really only worth the single level dip, that dip is nice because it adds WIS to all damage with a warhammer you craft yourself. WIS to damage is a pretty rare commodity in 3.5, and it's right up the alley of clerics.

The prerequisites for the dip are the sort of thing that's either trivial or you pick up on the way as a cleric: Heavy Armor Proficiency, for one. It needs Weapon Focus (Warhammer), but if you take the War domain as suggested, worshipping good old dwarven deity Moradin gets you that for free. You'll blow Craft skill ranks, but it's a class skill for clerics and pretty well everyone else in the universe.

The only feat tax for it is Endurance, but it's also a prerequisite for Strong Stomach from Cityspace, which is very much on theme with "ironguts dwarf" and makes you immune to the sickened condition and only sickened if you're nauseated. Thematic ways to pick up Endurance for free include a level in the variant Fighter class Pugilist from Dragon #310, which is pretty useless but gives you that feat, and Improved Unarmed Strike, for free - as well as a bonus fighter feat slot which can be used for Power Attack.

[Frazetta]

What level are you starting at, and what level do you expect to finish at?

What books are available?

Are there any other divine spellcasters in the party?

First level, hopefully an on going campaign.

All 3.5 books available. Party being formed but I know there will be a wizard.

[Biggus]

First level, hopefully an on going campaign.

All 3.5 books available. Party being formed but I know there will be a wizard.

OK cool. The reason I asked if there are any other divine casters is that having at least one in the party is really useful, so it's probably better not too give up many caster levels if you might be the only one (also, Cleric buffs are so good that you'd have to get some excellent class features to make it worth postponing them).

About those buffs: one very popular tactic is to take Persistent Spell (Complete Arcane) and Divine Metamagic (Complete Divine) feats to make some of your favorite buffs last all day. Also, using divination magic and/or a stealthy character to scout ahead can give you time to cast some short-duration buffs before combat starts. There are loads of good Cleric combat buffs in 3.5, many of which can be stacked with each other: they're mostly in the Player's Handbook and the Spell Compendium.

If you're going the Divine Metamagic/ Persistent Spell route you're going to want as many Turn Undead uses to power it as possible, so it'd be worth considering one of the dwarf subraces Maat Mons mentions which doesn't get a Charisma penalty.

There aren't much in the way of "aggro" mechanics in 3.5, so if you want to defend the squishier members of the party, consider getting a reach weapon and having the Wizard cast Enlarge Person on you, so you're hard to get past without at least getting an attack of opportunity. The Stand Still feat (in Expanded Psionics Handbook, but doesn't require any psionic ability) can stop enemies moving past you. Of course, the other way to keep enemies focused on you is to do a lot of damage: again, buffs are the main way of doing that for a Cleric.

Do you have a particular deity in mind? If the War domain is available, Holy Warrior (Complete Champion) is a great feat to give you extra damage all day long (as noce says, Ordained Champion (Complete Champion) is also worth considering if available). If you worship Moradin, the Pride domain has an excellent granted power: whenever you roll a natural 1 on a saving throw, you can reroll it. Given that your saves are pretty decent to start with and that you can boost them into the stratosphere with spells by level 7 or so, you won't fail many saves and almost none by mid-levels.

As for skills, Concentration is very important if you want to be able to cast spells in melee. Clerics typically also choose Spellcraft and/or Knowledge (Religion). Another approach, if you worship a deity who has the Knowledge domain and you haven't dumped Int too hard, is to take the Knowledge Devotion feat (Complete Champion) and put most of your skill points into Knowledge skills which allow you to identify creatures (Arcana, Religion and The Planes are all class skills: Dungeoneering, Local and Nature aren't so probably just take one rank each).

OK, that's all I've got for now, I might think of some more later.

[Frazetta]

OK cool. The reason I asked if there are any other divine casters is that having at least one in the party is really useful, so it's probably better not too give up many caster levels if you might be the only one (also, Cleric buffs are so good that you'd have to get some excellent class features to make it worth postponing them).

About those buffs: one very popular tactic is to take Persistent Spell (Complete Arcane) and Divine Metamagic (Complete Divine) feats to make some of your favorite buffs last all day. Also, using divination magic and/or a stealthy character to scout ahead can give you time to cast some short-duration buffs before combat starts. There are loads of good Cleric combat buffs in 3.5, many of which can be stacked with each other: they're mostly in the Player's Handbook and the Spell Compendium.

If you're going the Divine Metamagic/ Persistent Spell route you're going to want as many Turn Undead uses to power it as possible, so it'd be worth considering one of the dwarf subraces Maat Mons mentions which doesn't get a Charisma penalty.

There aren't much in the way of "aggro" mechanics in 3.5, so if you want to defend the squishier members of the party, consider getting a reach weapon and having the Wizard cast Enlarge Person on you, so you're hard to get past without at least getting an attack of opportunity. The Stand Still feat (in Expanded Psionics Handbook, but doesn't require any psionic ability) can stop enemies moving past you. Of course, the other way to keep enemies focused on you is to do a lot of damage: again, buffs are the main way of doing that for a Cleric.

Do you have a particular deity in mind? If the War domain is available, Holy Warrior (Complete Champion) is a great feat to give you extra damage all day long (as noce says, Ordained Champion (Complete Champion) is also worth considering if available). If you worship Moradin, the Pride domain has an excellent granted power: whenever you roll a natural 1 on a saving throw, you can reroll it. Given that your saves are pretty decent to start with and that you can boost them into the stratosphere with spells by level 7 or so, you won't fail many saves and almost none by mid-levels.

As for skills, Concentration is very important if you want to be able to cast spells in melee. Clerics typically also choose Spellcraft and/or Knowledge (Religion). Another approach, if you worship a deity who has the Knowledge domain and you haven't dumped Int too hard, is to take the Knowledge Devotion feat (Complete Champion) and put most of your skill points into Knowledge skills which allow you to identify creatures (Arcana, Religion and The Planes are all class skills: Dungeoneering, Local and Nature aren't so probably just take one rank each).

OK, that's all I've got for now, I might think of some more later.

Thanks great points / advise. Might just go more melee and leaving tanking for others. Lol

[Anthrowhale]

If you want to build towards the ability to draw fire, the 'Divine Prankster' prestige class has 'enrage enemies' at level 5 (ECL 10) which is quite potent. Getting this on a cleric chassis is nontrivial---you probably need something like {Rogue,Spellthief,Bard} 1/Cleric 4/Divine Prankster 5. You also need a DM who is willing to allow a Dwarf into gnome-only prestige class (although, I think such variants are discussed).

[Particle_Man]

If your dm is a stickler, there is a 3 level prestige class in the same book at divine prankster that allows one to be a gnome friend and qualify for gnome prestige classes, feats, etc.

Stoneblessed, that was it!