ways to take less force damage?

[Dimers]

I'd like to know ways to lessen/negate force damage (or damage from force effects) in 3.5. I know about the brooch of shielding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#broochofShielding), and I know that there are effects that work against magic in general, like spell immunity, spell turning or damp power. But is there anything that just flat-out reduces all force damage?

Like how a lot of my questions start, this is for a particular character with odd restrictions, but I'd like to hear any general answers. Good for broadening my horizons. :smallcool:

[Anthrowhale]

Forceward in Spell Compendium comes to mind.

[MinimanMidget]

A level 14 Truenamer can use Greater Energy Negation to be immune to force damage.

[flappeercraft]

Its hyper specific but force dragons are immune to force effects

[Dimers]

Its hyper specific but force dragons are immune to force effects

Huh. Side question -- does that mean they can't benefit from force buffs?

[flappeercraft]

Huh. Side question -- does that mean they can't benefit from force buffs?

"A force dragon cannot be harmed by any force effect, including magic missiles, explosive runes, mage’s sword, the sphere spells, or any other spell or effect with the Force descriptor. It can move freely through barriers made of force, such as a wall of force."

They can benefit as it only explicitly mentions harm. However the SRD also mentions. "A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality."

I vaguely recall something also something about elves being able to sleep in such cases if they wanted, so even straight up immunities should be doable.

[Maat Mons]

The Argent Savant PrC has the Ablate Force class feature.

[Biggus]

For general immunity to force, Forceward and being a Force Dragon appear to be it (I could have sworn there was one other creature that's immune, but after some time Googling it appears I am wrong). Force spells like Resilient Sphere, Telekinetic Sphere and Wall of Force block force effects.

The Argent Savant class (CArc) gets a resistance to force but it's pretty weak.

Several things give or have immunity to Magic Missile. Helmed Horror (LEoF) is immune. Shield (PHB), Repelling Shield (CM) and Nightshield (SpC) stop them. Storm Tower (SpC) negates MM in its area.

[flappeercraft]

A level 14 Truenamer can use Greater Energy Negation to be immune to force damage.

Just checked GEN and it only works on energy damage. So it won't work against force damage.

[ShurikVch]

Amethyst Dragon (Monster Manual II) - Force Resistant (Ex): An amethyst dragon gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against force-based effects such as magic missile.
Add in the Divine Denial feat (Exemplars of Evil) - to make Will saves even against those of divine spells which usually allow no save

Void Incarnate (https://web.archive.org/web/20140505111329/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a) is completely immune to force effects (regardless if good or bad for them) from the 9th level

[YellowJohn]

If you can track down the old WOTC Website article WYRMS OF THE NORTH – THALAGYRT, “OLD LORD MEMORY”, you will find the spell 'MURITHO’S RANDOMSCATTER'.
Among other effects, it grands 5 point energy resistance against Force Effects level 1 or lower.
It also ends if you cast a spell, and can't be cast on a creature that has any other active buffs 'that create a visible aura'.

Spell included for completeness.

[Biggus]

Amethyst Dragon (Monster Manual II) - Force Resistant (Ex): An amethyst dragon gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against force-based effects such as magic missile.
Add in the Divine Denial feat (Exemplars of Evil) - to make Will saves even against those of divine spells which usually allow no save


While this is of some use, it's limited by the fact that most of the main damaging force spells are arcane-only.

[ShurikVch]

While this is of some use, it's limited by the fact that most of the main damaging force spells are arcane-only.
Well, on the one hand - at least it's something...

But, on the other hand, about a half of all the damaging [force] spells are either divine-only, or available to divine spellcasters (directly, or via domains):
Alicorn Lance (Silver Marches)
Dinosaur Stampede (Spell Compendium)
Divine Retaliation (Player's Handbook II)
Love Bite (Champions of Valor) - Initiate of the Holy Realm 1
Mace of Odo (Player's Guide to Faerûn) - Initiate of Helm 3
Spiritjaws (Spell Compendium)
Spiritual Cavalry (Heroes of Battle)
Spiritual Charger (Heroes of Battle)
Spiritual Guardian (Complete Champion)
Spiritual Weapon
Stars of Selûne (Champions of Valor)
Sword and Hammer (Player's Guide to Faerûn) - Initiate of Tyr 4
Sword and Hammer, Greater (Player's Guide to Faerûn) - Initiate of Tyr 6Blade Barrier - Cleric 6
Death Throes - Cleric 5
Force Orb - Nentyar Hunter 4
Hammer of Righteousness - Sanctified 3
Magic Missile - Nentyar Hunter 1
Stars of Arvandor - Cleric/Druid/Ranger 4
Vortex of Teeth - Druid 4
Whirl of Fangs - Cleric 6Bigby's Clenched Fist - Strength 8
Bigby's Crushing Hand - Force/Strength 9
Blade Barrier - Celestia/Good/Metal/War 6
Blast of Force - Force 3
Explosive Runes - Rune 4
Gembomb - Gnome/Trade 2
Magic Missile - Force 2Isn't it enough to justify the feat?

[Biggus]

Well, on the one hand - at least it's something...

But, on the other hand, about a half of all the damaging [force] spells are either divine-only, or available to divine spellcasters (directly, or via domains):
Alicorn Lance (Silver Marches)
Dinosaur Stampede (Spell Compendium)
Divine Retaliation (Player's Handbook II)
Love Bite (Champions of Valor) - Initiate of the Holy Realm 1
Mace of Odo (Player's Guide to Faerûn) - Initiate of Helm 3
Spiritjaws (Spell Compendium)
Spiritual Cavalry (Heroes of Battle)
Spiritual Charger (Heroes of Battle)
Spiritual Chariot (Spell Compendium)
Spiritual Guardian (Complete Champion)
Spiritual Weapon
Stars of Selûne (Champions of Valor)
Sword and Hammer (Player's Guide to Faerûn) - Initiate of Tyr 4
Sword and Hammer, Greater (Player's Guide to Faerûn) - Initiate of Tyr 6Blade Barrier - Cleric 6
Death Throes - Cleric 5
Force Orb - Nentyar Hunter 4
Hammer of Righteousness - Sanctified 3
Magic Missile - Nentyar Hunter 1
Stars of Arvandor - Cleric/Druid/Ranger 4
Vortex of Teeth - Druid 4
Whirl of Fangs - Cleric 6Bigby's Clenched Fist - Strength 8
Bigby's Crushing Hand - Force/Strength 9
Blade Barrier - Celestia/Good/Metal/War 6
Blast of Force - Force 3
Explosive Runes - Rune 4
Gembomb - Gnome/Trade 2
Magic Missile - Force 2Isn't it enough to justify the feat?

Well, Divine Denial is a good feat that's worth taking in its own right, but I'm not sure it's worth it just for force effects. Apart from Blade Barrier (which I'll admit I forgot about) all on that list that I recognise are low-damage spells. Are there any other high-damage ones?

Also, do you know of any deities who grant the force domain? The only one I can find in any campaign setting is Tharizdun.

[ShurikVch]

Apart from Blade Barrier (which I'll admit I forgot about) all on that list that I recognise are low-damage spells. Are there any other high-damage ones?
Well, it kinda depends on your optimization level:
Hammer of Righteousness does 1d6/CL (or 1d8/CL - to Evil targets) - no cap; buff your CL - and you may dish 100+ damage
Death Throes - 1d8/CL - again, no cap. Put it on some other creature (than yourself) - and enemies in 30' got a nasty surprise...

Otherwise:
Mace of Odo - 1d6/CL (up to 10d6), +1/CL against Undead (up to +10); target need to make a Fort save or be paralyzed for a round; mace lasts for 1 round/level, and caster need to make melee touch attacks with it
Whirl of Fangs - 2d4/round for those inside the whirl, or 12d4 for those who're trying to pass through (Ref save for half)
Gembomb - 1d8 points of force damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d8) in a 5' radius (Ref save for half)
Explosive Runes - 6d6 damage
Dinosaur Stampede - 1d12+CL (up to +20), with 1 round/level duration (Ref save for half)
Blast of Force - 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d6)
Spiritual Cavalry - 2d8 points of force damage, +1 point per 3 CL (up to a max. of 2d8+5 at 15th level), +1d8 of trample (if knocked prone); one horseman per 4 CL (up to 5); possible crit. (X3/20)
Vortex of Teeth - 3d8/round; 40'x20' cylinder (with 5'-radius safe zone in the center)
Bigby's Crushing Hand - in a grapple, deals 2d6+12 damage
Sword and Hammer, Greater - 2d6 points of force damage +1 point per three caster levels (maximum +10) on a successful hit; duration 1 round/level


Also, do you know of any deities who grant the force domain? The only one I can find in any campaign setting is Tharizdun.
Aureon (Player's Guide to Eberron)

[Biggus]

Well, it kinda depends on your optimization level:
Hammer of Righteousness does 1d6/CL (or 1d8/CL - to Evil targets) - no cap; buff your CL - and you may dish 100+ damage
Death Throes - 1d8/CL - again, no cap. Put it on some other creature (than yourself) - and enemies in 30' got a nasty surprise...
Mace of Odo - 1d6/CL (up to 10d6), +1/CL against Undead (up to +10); target need to make a Fort save or be paralyzed for a round; mace lasts for 1 round/level, and caster need to make melee touch attacks with it
Dinosaur Stampede - 1d12+CL (up to +20), with 1 round/level duration (Ref save for half)


OK fair point, those are pretty decent.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Well, it kinda depends on your optimization level:
Hammer of Righteousness does 1d6/CL (or 1d8/CL - to Evil targets) - no cap; buff your CL - and you may dish 100+ damage
Death Throes - 1d8/CL - again, no cap. Put it on some other creature (than yourself) - and enemies in 30' got a nasty surprise...

Otherwise:
Mace of Odo - 1d6/CL (up to 10d6), +1/CL against Undead (up to +10); target need to make a Fort save or be paralyzed for a round; mace lasts for 1 round/level, and caster need to make melee touch attacks with it
Whirl of Fangs - 2d4/round for those inside the whirl, or 12d4 for those who're trying to pass through (Ref save for half)
Gembomb - 1d8 points of force damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d8) in a 5' radius (Ref save for half)
Explosive Runes - 6d6 damage
Dinosaur Stampede - 1d12+CL (up to +20), with 1 round/level duration (Ref save for half)
Blast of Force - 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d6)
Spiritual Cavalry - 2d8 points of force damage, +1 point per 3 CL (up to a max. of 2d8+5 at 15th level), +1d8 of trample (if knocked prone); one horseman per 4 CL (up to 5); possible crit. (X3/20)
Vortex of Teeth - 3d8/round; 40'x20' cylinder (with 5'-radius safe zone in the center)
Bigby's Crushing Hand - in a grapple, deals 2d6+12 damage
Sword and Hammer, Greater - 2d6 points of force damage +1 point per three caster levels (maximum +10) on a successful hit; duration 1 round/level


Aureon (Player's Guide to Eberron)
Some of those already have a save so all Divine Denial does is give you a +2 bonus.
Making it the more limited equivalent of Iron Will.
And the rest aren't really dangerous enough to justify the cost.

I know it can defend against Blasphemy/Holy Word and such but aside from those i can't recall that many really dangerous divine spells that don't offer a save.
And spending a feat to protect from 3-4 specific spells doesn't really seem worth it.

[ShurikVch]

OK fair point, those are pretty decent.
Also, forgot to add in: Force Orb - 1d6/CL (up to 10d6); in case of a miss, orb explodes in 10' burst and do 2 points of damage per damage dice

[Thurbane]

OK, this isn't really what OP asked...but...temporary hit points can effectively "reduce" Force (or any other) damage.

[Dimers]

Void Incarnate (https://web.archive.org/web/20140505111329/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a) is completely immune to force effects (regardless if good or bad for them) fro m the 9th level

I mentioned expanding my horizons ... well, before reading that, I didn't realize that WotC gave any support to epic level play post-ELH other than describing how to advance certain base classes.

[Biggus]

Also, forgot to add in: Force Orb - 1d6/CL (up to 10d6); in case of a miss, orb explodes in 10' burst and do 2 points of damage per damage dice

OK, but given that of all divine casters, only one setting- and region-specific prestige class can use it, I guess it's worth mentioning for completeness but it's not something you're going to encounter very often...


I mentioned expanding my horizons ... well, before reading that, I didn't realize that WotC gave any support to epic level play post-ELH other than describing how to advance certain base classes.

Other than Epic Insights, there were a couple of issues of Dragon which had some epic content, and a few of the ELH feats got updated in 3.5 books. There were also a couple of new epic prestige classes in RoF and PGtF. Have a look at Thurbane's signature for details.

[Dimers]

Have a look at Thurbane's signature for details.

Thanks! :smallsmile:

[Remuko]

Amethyst Dragon (Monster Manual II) - Force Resistant (Ex): An amethyst dragon gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against force-based effects such as magic missile.

but Magic Missile doesnt have a save...

[Thurbane]

but Magic Missile doesnt have a save...

Well, if it had the Divine Denial feat, and if the source of the Magic Missile was divine, like from the Force domain...then it gets a Will save. :smallbiggrin:

[Remuko]

Well, if it had the Divine Denial feat, and if the source of the Magic Missile was divine, like from the Force domain...then it gets a Will save. :smallbiggrin:

yeah true. its just funny that you have to jump thru hoops to enable the example in the dragons ability.

[ShurikVch]

Swiftblade (https://web.archive.org/web/20100327172812/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) with Evasive Celerity have chance to dodge targeted spells - even Magic Missile


Some of those already have a save so all Divine Denial does is give you a +2 bonus.
Making it the more limited equivalent of Iron Will.
But it works also for Fort and Ref saves
If it wasn't for divine spells only - I would say it's straight superior to Iron Will



OK, but given that of all divine casters, only one setting- and region-specific prestige class can use it, I guess it's worth mentioning for completeness but it's not something you're going to encounter very often...
Archivists and Chameleons are able to use it too



but Magic Missile doesnt have a save...
"Wait again, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection, pg. 16, reply #468 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=14757824&postcount=468) (2013-02-22)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hardness works just fine against damaging force effects, unless the effect specifies otherwise.

So finding a way to inhabit an object with hardness (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#hardness) (including an animated object (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm)), being a psicrystal (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psicrystal.htm), or finding a way to use the hardening (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/spells/hardening.htm) spell or matter manipulation (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/matterManipulation.htm) power on yourself would give some to you. Enhancing your body with enhancement bonuses, whether as a weapon or armor/shield, would also give you hardness, based on the bonus. A warforged can enhance its body armor directly, and since the body armor is part of its body, you should be able to give hardness to yourself in that way. Also, monks treat their unarmed strikes as manufactured weapons for effects that benefit them, and hardness definitely would.

[Endarire]

There's also the part about just not being a legal subject for the effect, but I know that's beside the point.

[SangoProduction]

yeah true. its just funny that you have to jump thru hoops to enable the example in the dragons ability.

I'll tell you what, my level 17 half orc force missile mage, who only ever used magic missile, while draped in a loin cloth is very upset that this dragon gets even better bonuses specifically against him and his metamagic.

[Vaern]

However the SRD also mentions. "A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality."

I vaguely recall something also something about elves being able to sleep in such cases if they wanted, so even straight up immunities should be doable.

The bit about elves being able to willingly accept the effects is actually part of the same bit of text that you quoted about foregoing saving throws in the PHB. For some reason the SRD decided that it wasn't important to offer an example to add context to the rule. As a result, you may often see people incorrectly assuming that "special resistance to magic" in this case refers to "spell resistance," and that spell resistance is a selective barrier through which you can reflexively accept beneficial spell effects on a whim. In reality, though, spell resistance has its own separate mechanic requiring a standard action to consciously lower your defenses to accept even a harmless or beneficial effect, with the barrier automatically returning on your next turn unless you spend another standard action to keep it down.

A bit more on topic, would a brooch of shielding block any force damage? Or is it just from magic missiles? It specifies that it negates damage from magic missile, either from the spell or spell-like ability, but it doesn't say anything about "or similar effects." Chain missile specifically goes out of its way to call itself out as being blocked by effects that negate magic missiles, but what about something force missile? It looks essentially like a bigger magic missile, but it doesn't call itself out as such.

[sleepyphoenixx]

A bit more on topic, would a brooch of shielding block any force damage? Or is it just from magic missiles? It specifies that it negates damage from magic missile, either from the spell or spell-like ability, but it doesn't say anything about "or similar effects." Chain missile specifically goes out of its way to call itself out as being blocked by effects that negate magic missiles, but what about something force missile? It looks essentially like a bigger magic missile, but it doesn't call itself out as such.

No. It says it blocks magic missile so it only blocks magic missile (or things that are explicitly treated as magic missile).
If it blocked force effects in general it would say so.