Help creating the 5 man party roles

[Rleonardh]

Basically the: tank, divine, skill monkey,arcane,5th wheel.

So here is my thoughts and plz add in build ideas.

Tank: not afraid of a DMM persistent cleric, but could go for a lockdown build, can't be tob or psi... Can use feats however like stand still feat.

Divine: cleric or druid.
Cleric 6/rsop 4/contemplative 1/rsop 6/ cleric 3

Skill monkey: rogue ish
Spellthief/wizard/Spellswap sniper/unseen seer or arcane trickster

Arcane: can't use the cheese class at all, 7vail I can however... Possible use same build as skill monkey?

5th: sense I don't like bards that much, maybe a sorcerer with arcane disciple with touch of healing also.

So I guess I would like help with "tank" and "arcane" roles.

Or should I just In a nut shell use
Cleric
Rogue/wizard
Sorcerer
And just plug and play as needed.

Btw we always use 15,14,13,12,10,8 than add 3d6 to areas we want so that's extra 3 to 18 points divided how we like.

Just like to have builds, aka outlines, for groups I join and fill rolls where needed. I'm the odd type that likes all roles.

[Biggus]

Arcane: can't use the cheese class at all, 7vail I can however... Possible use same build as skill monkey?


What are counted as cheese class? Without knowing what's banned we can't be much help. Does 7vail mean Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil?

Btw, I hope you don't mind me saying, but the sneaky class is called Rogue, rouge is a type of cosmetic.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Urban Savant (Cityscape) is a great alternative to Unseen Seer for skillmonkey-wizards without having to dip into rogue levels, if your DM allows you to use the knowledge(history) ranks to qualify (instead of bardic knowledge).

It gets 6+int skill points and pretty much all the rogue class skills except open lock and disable device, full arcane casting in light armor, d6 HD and good reflex & will saves and a bunch of "make the DM tell me the monsters stats" meta knowledge abilities so you always know exactly which spell to use and what to watch out for.
Great for people who try to avoid using meta knowledge, can't memorize all the monster manuals or play in games with custom enemies.

It notably doesn't get trapfinding or disable device/open lock (but it does get search) so you'll have to get those from dips or items if they're important to you, but otherwise wizard 5/urban savant 10 is pretty much the perfect PrC for a spellcasting skillmonkey.

[Kurald Galain]

Basically the: tank, divine, skill monkey,arcane,5th wheel.

What exactly is your 5th wheel supposed to accomplish?

[Rleonardh]

Incantatrix can't use
Fatespinner can't use
Innitiate of the Sevenfold Veil yes can use.

5th wheel is support mostly and can help the other 4 do there job or just pack a different punch if needed

Pretty much all is game except dragon magazine and psionics except feats from psionics like stand still feat.

[pabelfly]

What I do is ask what people are doing and see if there are any obvious deficiencies. If there aren't many frontliners, do that. If there's a lack of ranged characters, do that. If you need some heal Support, build with that in mind. If it all seems to be covered, do whatever you want to try.

[liquidformat]

Your best fifth wheel is probably a druid; they are powerful all around and can fill any roll very well. Need a healer, they can summon a unicorn and have wands of vigor or lesser vigor. Need a BFC'er they got the spells for that, blaster/ranged attacker they got the spells for that, scout they can send their hand spider off to explore, meatshield they can buff wild shape and wade in with their animal companion.

Its really hard to beat a druid unless you want something off the wall or goofy.

What exactly are you looking for in your arcanist, there are many ways they could go?

[Rleonardh]

Your best fifth wheel is probably a druid; they are powerful all around and can fill any roll very well. Need a healer, they can summon a unicorn and have wands of vigor or lesser vigor. Need a BFC'er they got the spells for that, blaster/ranged attacker they got the spells for that, scout they can send their hand spider off to explore, meatshield they can buff wild shape and wade in with their animal companion.

Its really hard to beat a druid unless you want something off the wall or goofy.

What exactly are you looking for in your arcanist, there are many ways they could go?



Druid definitely one of my all time go to characters as you say can fill all the roles that party lacks or double down on roles.

Arcane I'm more of control the battle field guy if wizard.
Sorcerer I'm more blast and taking out single opponents that are the main threat.

[Raxxius]

Your best fifth wheel is probably a druid; they are powerful all around and can fill any roll very well. Need a healer, they can summon a unicorn and have wands of vigor or lesser vigor. Need a BFC'er they got the spells for that, blaster/ranged attacker they got the spells for that, scout they can send their hand spider off to explore, meatshield they can buff wild shape and wade in with their animal companion.

Its really hard to beat a druid unless you want something off the wall or goofy.

What exactly are you looking for in your arcanist, there are many ways they could go?

Thing is your best everywheel is Druid :D

[Rleonardh]

So
Tank druid
Arcane druid
Skiller druid
Divine druid
5th druid


Is that the: bear riding a bear and shooting bears out of there eyes party? 🤣

Tank: DMM persistent cleric or holy warrior war domain cleric
Divine: any cleric or druid
Skill monkey: spellthief/wizard/Spellswap Sniper/arcane trickster
Arcane: Sorcerer
5th: arcane disciple healing sorcerer or druid

Think that's my roles and builds for plug and play for groups.

[Particle_Man]

Or go the other way:

Fighter
Warmage
Healer
Rogue
Bard

Let the DM deal with a low op party for a change.

[Rebel7284]

Assuming high OP

[Tank]
DMM Persist Cleric does this job fairly well in the mid to late levels, of course with some prestige classes.
other options
- Ruby Knight Vindicator
- Druid
- Master of Many Forms,
- optimized Psychic Warriors

note that that tank is not a necessary role as you can replace it with a few pets/summons quite easily

[Arcane]
Wizard is a classic, and works great. I like Shadowcraft Mages in particular because of the nearly spontaneous casting.
- Initiate of the 7th fold veil has been mentioned as a lovely defensive option
- Even boring core Archmage does perfectly well.

I assume anything with Circle Magic is rightfully banned.

[Divine]
Dweomerkeeper is probably the best Divine caster, but I suspect may be banned due to similarities to Incantatrix.
other options:
- Archivist is a good choice, with a Sacred Exorcist dip for access to Turn Undead as it gets a MUCH wider access to spells than most other divine casters.
- Regular Cloistered Cleric with a bunch of dips (Church inquisitor, Contemplative, etc) works well enough and requires less spell research.

[Skill Monkey]
Rogue 1/Wizard X/Unseen Seer/etc. works extremely well, but primarily because it's a wizard..
other options:
- Factotum get literally all skills as class skills and extra actions making them fairly good Rogues.
- Artificers surprisingly also have Trapfinding and add a whole other dimension to the game.
- Beguiler is great too, especially with Shadowcraft Mage later to expand spell access.
- Kobold Domain Cloistered Cleric CAN pull this off, but that feels more like a meme to me.

[5th Wheel]
I have to agree with Druid being top of the line here.
other options
- Wildshape Mystic Ranger with Sword of the Arcane order does everything until around level 10.

[Biggus]

Arcane: Sorcerer


Because they get no class features except familiar advancement, you generally don't want to play a single-classed sorcerer. Some prestige classes to consider:

Mage of the Arcane Order (Complete Arcane): great if you're the only arcane caster, as it overcomes the sorcerer's big weakness of limited spells known. You have to take 3 feats to qualify though (Arcane Preparation to be able to prepare arcane spells, Cooperative Spell and one other metamagic feat).

If you have a martial weapon proficiency (such as from being an elf) Abjurant Champion (Complete Mage) gives a lot of nice bonuses in exchange for a single meh feat (Combat Casting) once you can meet the BAB requirements.

Sand Shaper (Sandstorm) is another way to increase your spells known.

If you can meet the skill requirements (eg by taking the Knowledge Devotion feat) Divine Oracle (Complete Divine) works surprisingly well despite being primarily aimed at divine casters. It gets abilities like evasion, uncanny dodge and at level 10 immunity to surprise, which is very good. Gets some decent bonuses to divination spells too if that's something you're interested in.

[Maat Mons]

Punching Bag

Cleric 6 / Knight of the Raven 10 / whatever
Cleric 7 / Windwalker 10 / whatever
Druid 20

Divine Caster

Archivist 5 / Divine Oracle 10 / Contemplative 5
Archivist 5 / Divine Oracle 5 / Contemplative 10
Cloistered Cleric 5 / Divine Oracle 10 / Contemplative 5
Cloistered Cleric 5 / Divine Oracle 5 / Contemplative 10

Trapspringer

Ninja 1 / Cloistered Cleric 19
Rogue 1 / Wizard 5 / Unseen Seer 10 / Arcane Trickster 4
Trap Expert Ranger 1 / Archivist 4 / Seeker of the Misty Isle or Hexer or Windwalker or Verdent Lord or something

Arcane Caster

Wizard 5 / Divine Oracle 10 / whatever

Fifth Wheel

Wizard 5 / War Weaver 5 / whatever

[vasilidor]

the only real defined roles are the tank and trap springer. A Divine character can be a blaster/party buffer/enemy debuffer and so can the Arcane person. What is needed of the Divine caster and the Arcane caster? I know the 5th man can just be about anything and is just kind of there. As a cleric player Summon monster was a common go-to for damage prevention on my part as damage it took was not something I would need to worry about healing as were other things that took monsters out of the fight (command, cause fear, etc.).
If book of 9 swords is available I would recommend the Crusader as a tank. If not then I would go with a fighter/cleric/warpriest as the tank. If the War priest is considered cheeze (I do not see why it would be) then maybe just Fighter/cleric with a focus on protective spells.
For the trap springer take a level of something with trapfinding and then go into bard or warlock while keeping hide, move silent, search and disable device capped off. I know there is a feat that makes it so that certain skills are class skills but I cannot remember what it is called off the top of my head that you would probably want. Take the dark stalker feat.
For the Arcane caster if one cannot decide on what type of arcane caster to play and how you want to play it, go straight wizard. All the prestige classes are some form of specialization that cause a player to focus in on one particular style of casting over others. If you want to focus on a specific style of casting, then pick a prestige class.
For the Divine caster if you want to focus on healing go cleric/ radiant servant of pelor. prep spells that can be used to prevent damage and dump them for healing as needed.
for the 5th man go with a druid that focuses on summon nature's ally. Bring on the Badgerok.

[Rleonardh]

For the trap springer take a level of something with trapfinding and then go into bard or warlock while keeping hide, move silent, search and disable device capped off. I know there is a feat that makes it so that certain skills are class skills but I cannot remember what it is called off the top of my head that you would probably want. Take the dark stalker feat.


Able learner is the feat.

[Elkad]

A-Game Paladin (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?445134-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-quot-A-quot-Game-Paladin)?