PHB + 1 Build

[Wonton64]

My DM wants to run a level 15 one-shot sometime soon, limited to using the PHB and any one other book. Every time I come up with something, I end up missing a key PrC or Feat. So, any build ideas for this? It's a one-shot, so feel free to commit the cardinal sin of recommending PrCs that give up CL, if they look fun.

I personally prefer martial or fish characters to full casters (although casters that change into martials are also attractive options).

[Vrock Bait]

Why not Tome of Battle? That strikes me as the most discrete of 3.5e sourcebooks.

[liquidformat]

yeah ToB or MoI are probably the best choices since their classes are very insular.

If you go Wizard, Druid, or Cleric you could easily just to do PHB plus Spell Compendium or whatever book has the prc you would like.

What type of character are you lookin to play?

[Wonton64]

Why not Tome of Battle? That strikes me as the most discrete of 3.5e sourcebooks.

That's on my list, I've never played it high level, though, so I didn't know how it played.

[Wonton64]

yeah ToB or MoI are probably the best choices since their classes are very insular.

If you go Wizard, Druid, or Cleric you could easily just to do PHB plus Spell Compendium or whatever book has the prc you would like.

What type of character are you lookin to play?

I don't really have a preferred type of character. I was considering ToB, MoI, or even ToM, since those are pretty standalone. I'm not a huge fan of high-level casters, I feel like they turn the game into a somewhat antagonistic affair (as you try and trivialize all the DMs plans).

[ciopo]

each player have their own "+1"?

what about corollary books, like spell compendium or magic item compendium, that don't introduce classes?

Anyway, I'm a sucker for the PHBII "shapeshift" variant druid, so I'd vote for that

[Wonton64]

each player have their own "+1"?

what about corollary books, like spell compendium or magic item compendium, that don't introduce classes?

Anyway, I'm a sucker for the PHBII "shapeshift" variant druid, so I'd vote for that

Each person selects their own +1. I'm assuming Compendium books are allowed.

[pabelfly]

Tome of Battle is pretty good if you want a martial that's self-contained, if you don't mind learning their mechanics. If you want to mix in spellcasting you can go with the Jade Phoenix Mage or Ruby Knight Vindicator. Any of these should be quite viable build options.


I don't really have a preferred type of character. I was considering ToB, MoI, or even ToM, since those are pretty standalone. I'm not a huge fan of high-level casters, I feel like they turn the game into a somewhat antagonistic affair (as you try and trivialize all the DMs plans).

I wouldn't go with Tome of Magic for this. Binder has some good vestige abilities for melee combat, but you'd have to augment that combat ability with feats, ACFs and classes from other books besides PHB. Truenamer needs as many source books as possible to optimize its Truespeak check, otherwise you've got a weak caster that can't even cast its spells on command. Can't really comment on Shadowcaster.

[Gruftzwerg]

Complete Warrior

Race: Human

Druid 6 /Monk 2 / Drunken Master 2 / Nature's Warrior 5

Feats:

Improved Grapple (monk bonus feat)
Combat Reflexes (monk bonus feat)

Dodge (human bonus feat) (for DM)

1: Improved Bullrush
3: Great Fortitude (for DM)
6: Track (for NW)
9: Power Attack
12: Shock Trooper
15: Natural Spell



Use Fleshraker or any other pounce form for combat.
Become an ubercharger. Change directions as much as you want with Stagger from Drunken Master (e.g. back and forth or a looping if you can fly).

Get a Necklace of Natural Attacks +5 +Assasination + valorous (if gear can be from other books) to increase your charge dmg and the DC of your fleshraker's poison.

Constantly a x3 charge/pounce multiplier (when flying/diving and having the valorous necklace) should give you enough dmg.

Access to 5th lvl druid spells to have some buffs or some situational spells.

Nature's Warrior can give you an untyped +3 dmg bonus on your natural weapons. the other 2 abilities you can select as you see it fit.

[liquidformat]

Duskblade out of PHBII would be worth a look, most everything for it is available between PHB and PHBII so you aren't loosing much by just going pure duskblade. Beguiler from PHBII while also nice looses a decent amount by having such a restriction. Dragonfire adept is quite versatile and you don't loose too much from the book restrictions. I guess the real question is how complicated you want your life to be. ToB while great takes a decent amount of book keeping just because their maneuvers refresh and can be changed up pretty easily. I always prefer Totemist or totem rager over Incarnate, they always seem a bit more fun and more powerful to me. In general Incarnum classes are a bit more straight forward than ToB classes and take less bookkeeping.

Comically the classes nerfed the most by such narrow book selections are the lower tiered classes like fighter, paladin, ranger, rogue, monk, and barbarian which really loose a lot by not being able to dumpster dive through the books. And yet I feel like most DMs who do this do it with the intent of making things 'more fair' for lower tier classes but just don't know enough to actually help.

[Troacctid]

This feels like a good opportunity to play a higher-level initiator character and try out some of the high-level maneuvers you may not get a chance to use in other campaigns. If I were playing a martial or gish character in this game, I think I would either roll up a deepstone sentinel (pure martial) or a jade phoenix mage (martial gish).

[Metastachydium]

I personally prefer martial or fish characters

In a pinch, MM, OA and Savage Species all have some fish races to offer, but otherwise you might want Stormwrack instead.

On a more serious note, I too would caution you against picking ToM. How about Complete Champion (devotion feats, cool PrCs that combine well with PHB stuff – what's not to like?) or XPH?


If I were playing a martial or gish character in this game, I think I would either roll up a deepstone sentinel (pure martial) or a jade phoenix mage (martial gish).

(I still have difficulty accepting the position that initiators (or at the very least self-respecting crusaders and swordsages) are not thinly disguised gishes.)

[Troacctid]

(I still have difficulty accepting the position that initiators (or at the very least self-respecting crusaders and swordsages) are not thinly disguised gishes.)
If you have a very loose definition of "gish", maybe.

[Wonton64]

In a pinch, MM, OA and Savage Species all have some fish races to offer, but otherwise you might want Stormwrack instead.


Hmmm, well now you've sent me in a whole other, much more bizarre, direction.

[Metastachydium]

If you have a very loose definition of "gish", maybe.

Well, I wouldn't say "fighting type, but uses magic" is very loose, but I'm not here to argue.


Hmmm, well now you've sent me in a whole other, much more bizarre, direction.

Oh, I live to be helpful!

[TerrickTerran]

personally I'm a Hadozee fan if we're talking Stormwrack.

Either XPH or TOM to play Binder for me if I only have one other book but there are several great options that have been suggested.

[pabelfly]

Either XPH or TOM to play Binder for me if I only have one other book but there are several great options that have been suggested.

Binder is a fun class for sure, but would you want to do a martial build with Binder without any other splat books?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you choose Complete Psionic, would the Expanded Psionics Handbook be included by default?

Would druids and summoning/polymorph-based wizards need the Monster Manual to be their +1?

[AvatarVecna]

Lvl 15? Core+1? Races Of Stone.

Shadowcraft Mage.
Gnome Wizard ACF.
Earth Spell.

Gnome Wizard 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5. Simple build. No incantatrix, so you can't go full metamagic abuse, and no Persistent Spell, so you can't play a gish. But you can prepare (Heightened) Silent Image in every slot from lvl 0 to 8 and effectively be a spontaneous caster with a spells known list the size of two spell schools (primarily combat spells). Even true seeing isn't perfect against you. Some good utility wands and you should be covered.

[Particle_Man]

I would nth the book of nine swords. I think the eternal blade is a nice prestige class there for an elf war blade or crusader. Another option is to forgo prestige classes, dip into bard and mix with either crusader or war blade (and the feat song of the white raven) for helping to buff the party both as a bard and via various white raven maneuvers. Mind you, at core plus one you lose some of the nice tank feats.

You could also do a warblade 5/sword sage 1/crusader 1/master of nine if you want the flavour but it is more complicated and eats all of your feats. But you get to call yourself the Master of Nine! :smallcool:

If you want a ranged warrior than war blade 5/bloodstorm blade 10 might suit you.

That said, warblade 15 is pretty nice in its own right.

[Particle_Man]

As another option you could make the DMG your plus one and go for the horizon tripper build:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-(Core-Melee-Build)

Mainly melee but with short range teleportation, tremorsense, immunity to blasphemy and other alignment based nastiness, and, of course, the ability to trip some foes.

[Particle_Man]

Or go with the MM and be a half-dragon centaur with 6 levels of something you like. You get a flight speed of 100’ and are hella strong.

[AnonJr]

I'll second an earlier suggestion for Duskblade as a great gish. I played one recently, and it's been really nice. All the Duskblade spells are in PHB and PHB2, so you don't have to worry about missing out on anything major if you're only allowed the "one other" book. One thing that helped my build, that wouldn't be available in your constraints, is the "Knowledge Devotion" feat. Not essential, but a definite plus for an Int caster with points to spare.

The aforementioned Horizon Tripper (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-(Core-Melee-Build)) is also good. I've had some fun with a couple of those. Probably wouldn't be ok'd, but a Hobgoblin Horizon Tripper, with the "Darguun Mauler" feat from Races of Eberron gets you a spiked chain as a martial weapon and some other nice benefits. But given your DM and/or setting that might not be an option.

Depending on if Dragon content counts, you might find some interesting ideas for a one-shot in a thread I started a couple days ago (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?645757-Help-finishing-build-so-it-will-stop-rattling-around-my-brain) trying to get a random build fleshed out in the hopes that would get it to stop rattling around my brain.

[Troacctid]

Horizon walker is not a bad idea, but I'd be more inclined towards it in a situation where all three core books are the base with Magic Item Compendium as the +1. If you have to spend your +1 on the DMG, I think you can do better by taking a similarly cool prestige class from one of the Complete series that also gives you access to nice feats.


Well, I wouldn't say "fighting type, but uses magic" is very loose, but I'm not here to argue.
"Check out the gish build I've been working on for the new campaign!"
"This is a single-class monk."
"That's right! Punch punch!"
"You think monk is a gish class?"
"Uh, yeah. They're melee fighters who also have some magic, in this case ki strike, wholeness of body, and abundant step. Plus, look, she's a sea elf!"
"What does being a sea elf have to do with it?"
"There's plenty of gish in the sea. :smallbiggrin:"
"...:smallannoyed:"

[RandomPeasant]

If you need to pick the DMG as your +1 to get stuff from it, you are required to pick the DMG, because that is the book with magic items in it.

The position that a class with spells maneuvers that have nine levels and come in a variety of schools disciplines, many of which have explicitly supernatural effects, is a lot like a spellcaster is not nearly as absurd as is being implied.

The obvious choice here is Druid, because Core Druid has like 90% of the key stuff for the Druid, and you can just pick whatever book has the specific piece of Druid cheese you think is cool. Savage Species for Multi-Tasking, whatever book Planar Shepherd is in for that, Lost Empires of Faerûn for Greenbound Summoning, Book of Exalted Deeds for a simple VoP Druid, there's plenty of stand-alone options that make Druid better.

[Particle_Man]

Another option, since it is a one shot, is just to go for the weird sub-optimal stuff like Green Star Adept, or perhaps a young copper dragon or very young red dragon (depending on party alignment).

But yes, do clarify with your DM whether it is phb +1 or core +1 or a restricted version of core +1 (such as allowing magic items, but not prestige class or feats, from the dmg if that is not explicitly chosen for the “+1”.

[Darg]

Pyrokineticist from the XPH is a lot fun to build around. Sadly your flight capabilities are limited by your power point pool, but hey you get to boil people from the inside out at will. I guess you could simply make as many manifester enhanced ammunitions as you need (shuriken is explicitly RAW if the DM doesn't care for other ammunition types).

[Wonton64]

Another option, since it is a one shot, is just to go for the weird sub-optimal stuff like Green Star Adept, or perhaps a young copper dragon or very young red dragon (depending on party alignment).

But yes, do clarify with your DM whether it is phb +1 or core +1 or a restricted version of core +1 (such as allowing magic items, but not prestige class or feats, from the dmg if that is not explicitly chosen for the “+1”.

That's kind of what I was looking for. Something fun and flavorful that maybe wouldn't be great for an actual campaign. Also, yeah, it's Core, not just the PHB.

[Particle_Man]

I think the OP said that core is allowed so pets and magic items are in. It is core plus one.

I suppose you could try soulborn (either with dwarf or elf substitution levels) from magic of incarnum because you will not want to do it long term but it gives you a chance to see how soulmelds and incarnum work to see if you like that system at all.

If you want to go for weird you could go for a half-gold dragon treant (no class levels). The immunity to fire should counter the vulnerability to fire, plus you get a ton of plant based immunities. The half-dragon template boosts your plant hit dice and skill points. And since it is core it still leaves you room to add one more book for feats or skill tricks or magic items that are not core. And hey a flying tree!

[Quertus]

If you need to pick the DMG as your +1 to get stuff from it, you are required to pick the DMG, because that is the book with magic items in it.

The position that a class with spells maneuvers that have nine levels and come in a variety of schools disciplines, many of which have explicitly supernatural effects, is a lot like a spellcaster is not nearly as absurd as is being implied.

The obvious choice here is Druid, because Core Druid has like 90% of the key stuff for the Druid, and you can just pick whatever book has the specific piece of Druid cheese you think is cool. Savage Species for Multi-Tasking, whatever book Planar Shepherd is in for that, Lost Empires of Faerûn for Greenbound Summoning, Book of Exalted Deeds for a simple VoP Druid, there's plenty of stand-alone options that make Druid better.

Yeah, this is what I wanted to say. If we're being maximum pedantic, "just PHB" is... really rough. DMG or MIC is almost required to be your +1.

Assuming it's actually "Core +1", I've long contended that Unearthed Arcana is a very powerful +1. Between generic Spellcaster and Taint, you can ignore expensive material components on spells off any list. As added bonuses, it has Spell Points, and FLAWS! Oh, and variant classes, item familiars, and Incantations.

For more fun... at 15th level, in a 1-shot...

Book of Vile Darkness or Complete Divine have Ur-Priest, which (depending on the group and the GM) might be more fun in a 1-shot than in a longer campaign.

And Savage Species has "build your own race" rules, which seem like the kind of fun one might like to have in a level 15 one-shot.

Or, if you just enjoy psychological warfare, choose "Book of 9 Swords", then play a Wizard. Bonus points if they actually take feats from Bo9S / pretend to be a Fighter. Or choose "Complete Psionic", and play an Elan Wizard 15. Especially fun if you publish your choice of book (but not your character) some time before the game starts.

Or, given that the DMG encourages DMs to make their own prestige classes, ask your DM about their prestige classes, and choose one of those. That's fun in a full campaign, too, not just a 1-shot, btw.

Oh, and if the DMG isn't included, consider taking the 3.0 DMG as your +1 - a few "essential" items are cheaper (flight for one), and Vorpal Blades that trigger on crit, rather than on a natural 20. Martials can have nice things. Good times.

[Particle_Man]

If your DM doesn’t find it too cheesy and you use unearthed arcana, see if the level adjustment buy off rule can be applied to your character. That might give you one or two reductions of Level adjustment which you could then use for class levels.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If your DM doesn’t find it too cheesy and you use unearthed arcana, see if the level adjustment buy off rule can be applied to your character. That might give you one or two reductions of Level adjustment which you could then use for class levels.Also...gestalt? What I've read on this forum ballparks gestalt at about +2 LA. See if you can make use of that, as well as LA-buyoff.

[Jay R]

Lvl 15? Core+1? Races Of Stone.

Shadowcraft Mage.
Gnome Wizard ACF.
Earth Spell.

Gnome Wizard 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5. Simple build. No incantatrix, so you can't go full metamagic abuse, and no Persistent Spell, so you can't play a gish. But you can prepare (Heightened) Silent Image in every slot from lvl 0 to 8 and effectively be a spontaneous caster with a spells known list the size of two spell schools (primarily combat spells). Even true seeing isn't perfect against you. Some good utility wands and you should be covered.

I came here to recommend exactly this. A lot of the ideal Shadowcraft Mage build comes from a single book.

[Metastachydium]

"Check out the gish build I've been working on for the new campaign!"
"This is a single-class monk."
"That's right! Punch punch!"
"You think monk is a gish class?"
"Uh, yeah. They're melee fighters who also have some magic, in this case ki strike, wholeness of body, and abundant step. Plus, look, she's a sea elf!"
"What does being a sea elf have to do with it?"
"There's plenty of gish in the sea. :smallbiggrin:"
"...:smallannoyed:"



The position that a class with spells maneuvers that have nine levels and come in a variety of schools disciplines, many of which have explicitly supernatural effects, is a lot like a spellcaster is not nearly as absurd as is being implied.

(This, in a nutshell. (Thank you, RandomPeasant!)

Also, I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that duskblade isn't a gish. But how's a duskblade with, say, Shocking Grasp, Dimension Hop, Magic Weapon and Swift Invisibility more of a magic user than a swordsage with Burning Blade, Shadow Jaunt, Mountain Hammer and Cloak of Deception if, indeed, the mechanics of using these effects are kind of analogous?)


I suppose you could try soulborn

But do you want to?


because you will not want to do it long term

True fact!


If you want to go for weird you could go for a half-gold dragon treant (no class levels). The immunity to fire should counter the vulnerability to fire, plus you get a ton of plant based immunities. The half-dragon template boosts your plant hit dice and skill points. And since it is core it still leaves you room to add one more book for feats or skill tricks or magic items that are not core. And hey a flying tree!

THIS! So this! (I love it. You can do something like that with a shambler too, which comes with an elemental immunity, no fire problems and elctricity freakin' healing by default!)

[Particle_Man]

Another option (which unfortunately might be a lot to keep track of for a one shot) is Complete Scoundrel for Rogue 9/Battle Trickster 3/Uncanny Trickster 3 and take as many skill tricks as possible (13, I think, with a few that could repeat in an encounter)? Not optimal but perhaps interesting, depending on how your dm rolls.

If you want to squeeze in magical trickster too (and hence a few more tricks) I suppose you could go rogue 1/druid 5 and then the three 3-level trickster classes. You would get wild shape too!

On the other hand, sword sage 10/master of nine 5 would also get you a fighter type that always seems to have a trick up their sleeve.

[Wonton64]

I'm currently between a ToB build, or just grabbing one of those absolutely dumb 1/2 caster prestige classes.

[pabelfly]

I'm currently between a ToB build, or just grabbing one of those absolutely dumb 1/2 caster prestige classes.

Who needs caster levels when you can have minor bonuses to fluff abilities?

[AnonJr]

That's kind of what I was looking for. Something fun and flavorful that maybe wouldn't be great for an actual campaign. Also, yeah, it's Core, not just the PHB.

In that case, I had some fun playing a Gargoyle Cleric in a one-shot - he was "part of the church". :smallwink:

Also had some fun with a Gestalt character in a one-shot. In that case though, we were all playing gestalt characters so we ended up roughly even. I'm not sure they quite hit "LA +2" territory, maybe LA +1.5(ish). See if you can do it without the LA issues by taking a couple less points on the point-buy (or similar penalty).

[liquidformat]

I'm currently between a ToB build, or just grabbing one of those absolutely dumb 1/2 caster prestige classes.

I mean doing something like Paladin into Divine Crusader is always fun and Complete Divine has a decent number of PRCs you can hop into to get a good mix of domains

[Particle_Man]

I'm currently between a ToB build, or just grabbing one of those absolutely dumb 1/2 caster prestige classes.

If you went crusader 4/cleric 1/Ruby knight vindicator 10 you could sort of do both - a flavourful prestige class, keeping the caster level at only 9th, and focusing instead on the initiator side of the fence.

[Quertus]

Also...gestalt? What I've read on this forum ballparks gestalt at about +2 LA. See if you can make use of that, as well as LA-buyoff.

I'm wondering how I missed that. :smallredface: One more reason to pick UA.

Did they happen to estimate a LA on tri-stalt when they estimated gestalt at +2 LA?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm wondering how I missed that. :smallredface: One more reason to pick UA.

Did they happen to estimate a LA on tri-stalt when they estimated gestalt at +2 LA?Not that I can recall, although if I were being snarky, I'd say +3, with quadristalt being +4, etc.

[RandomPeasant]

Trying to assign a level adjustment to Gestalt is like trying to assign a level adjustment for "getting to take a PrC". Are you taking Rainbow Servant as a Warmage, or Forsaker as a Wizard? Are you a Wizard//Psion or a Fighter//Warmage?

[Soranar]

How about a chameleon?

you get access to all spells arcane or divine up to level 6 with a caster level 20

Something like

Rogue 5 (for the skillpoints and sneak attack)
Chameleon 10
And then finish with more rogue levels

It's not as powerful as a regular chameleon (since the spells are more limited) but make sure to check the duskblade's spell list (PHB II counts as PHB I assume).

You should still be ridiculously versatile and you can do whatever you like

fight in melee? divine power
pew pew? duskblade disintegrate + sneak attack damage
summon a meatshield? giant vermin (colossal size with caster level 20) or animate object

you also have a ton of spellslots since you have arcane and divine spells (the other focuses are never as strong as this)

If you prefer getting more spellslots you can also use dragon disciple to do that but you'll need to dip bard or sorcerer to do so.

In that case I'd probably recommend

1 Sorcerer
2-3 Paladin (for the extra saves)
4-5 Fighter (for the bonus feats)

[Particle_Man]

Check with the dm as PHB II May count as the +1 rather than as part of core.