5e Branching class system

[clash]

Ive been mulling over ideas for a branching class system where classes are each 5 levels long and each qualifies you for 2 or more classes at the next stage that you can choose from. This runs parallel to a job system built in the same fashion but for out of combat utility. Let me know what you think of the base classes. Ability descriptions incoming.:

Base Classes

Solider(strength)


Level
Features
Maneuvers Known
Mana


1
Weapons Training, Fighting Style
-
0


2
Combat Maneuvers
2
3


3
Second Wind, Resilient
3
4


4
ASI
4
6


5
Extra Attack
4
8



Weapons Training
You have proficiency with All simple and martial weapons.

Fighting Style
As Written.

Combat Maneuvers
You gain two combat knowledge of two combat maneuvers. You gain additional maneuvers as you level up. You can replace any attack in the attack action with a single combat maneuver by expending mana equal to it's level. (Or spell slot if you play with spell slots, solider gains spell slots as a half caster)

Second Wind
Once per long rest, as a minor action, you can regain hp equal to your character level.

Resilient
You have advantage on any death saving throws you make

Extra Attack
When you take the attack action you may attack one additional time as part of the same action. This stacks with itself.

Archer(dexterity)


Level
Features
Precise Attack Dice


1
Precise Attack, Improved Critical
1d6


2
Steady Aim
1d6


3
Keep Your Distance
2d6


4
ASI
2d6


5
Precise Attack, Point Blank Shot
3d6



Precise Attack
When you make an attack with a ranged or finesse weapon and have advantage you deal an extra 1d6 damage. This increases as you gain levels.

Improved Critical
When you make an attack roll you score a critical hit on a 19 or 20.

Steady Aim
As a bonus action, you give yourself advantage on your next attack roll on the current turn. You can use this bonus action only if you haven’t moved during this turn, and after you use the bonus action, your speed is 0 until the end of the current turn.

Keep Your Distance
When a creature misses you with a melee attack you may immediately move half your movement speed as a reaction. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.

Point Blank Shot
You no longer have disadvantage for firing a range weapon at a target withing 5 ft of you.

Tactician(intelligence)


Level
Features
Orders Known


1
Combat Tactics, First Strike
2


2
Know Your Enemy
2


3
Stillness of Mind
3


4
ASI
3


5
Intermediate Order
5



Combat Tactics
You gain knowledge of two orders. As an action you can use one of your known orders. you gain more orders as you gain levels in this class.

First Strike
You have advantage on dexterity checks to determine initiative.

Know Your Enemy
As an action you can determine a creatures resistances, vulnerabilities, and immunities.

Stillness of Mind
You have advantage on any saving throws made to resist charm or fear.

Intermediate Orders
You can learn intermediate orders.

Mage(wisdom)


Level
Features
Spells Known
Mana


1
Spellcasting
4
3


2
Mana Recovery
5
6


3
Magic Shielding
6
9


4
ASI
7
12


5
Potent Spellcasting
8
15



Spellcasting
Spell known and spell slots as full caster if not using mana

Mana Recovery
Once per day you can spend 10 minutes to regain mana equal to half your level.

Magic Shielding
When you are hit with a spell attack roll, you can add +5 to your ac as a reaction potentially causing it to miss.

Potent Spellcasting
Whenever you deal damage with a spell you deal an additional damage dice matching the dice of the spell. (If playing with spell slots this only effects cantrips and replaces the normal cantrip progression)

Hedgewitch(charisma)


Level
Features
Disasters Known
Magical Talents


1
Nature Magic(Disasters), Familiar
2
-


2
Magical Talents, Damage Resistance
2
2


3
Focused Caster
2
2


4
ASI
2
3


5
Improved Disasters
3
3



Nature Magic
You learn how to use subtle manipulations to invoke the wrath of nature. You learn two disasters and may progress them to level 3. You can invoke a disaster at its lowest level as an action. You must concentrate on it as if concentrating on a spell. Once invoked you can maintain it at its current level on subsequent turns as a bonus action or intensify it as an action. You can intensify it to a maximum of level 3.

Familar
See find familiar spell

Magical Talents
You gain two magical talents. See warlock invocations.

Damage Resistance
You gain resistance to one of Fire, Air, Lightning, Thunder, or Poison damage.

Focused Caster
You have advantage on checks to maintain concentration.

Improved Disasters
You deal an additional die of damage at each of your disaster levels. If it deals more than one type of damage just choose one to increase.

Example of a disaster:
Storm


Level
Effects


1
Rain and wind permeate a cylindrical area of 5ft radius and 40ft high at a point you choose within 60ft. Creatures caught within have vulnerability to lightning damage until the start of your next turn and must succeed on a Strength Saving throw or get shoved 5ft in a direction you choose, taking 1d8 air damage. On subsequent turns after invoking this Disaster, you may move the point of origin up to 30ft as a part of the minor action used to maintain the Disaster.


2
The area spreads to a 10ft radius cylinder and the Storm gets stronger and cooler, producing hail. The Storm obscures vision and each creature caught within is Blinded while in the area. Additionally, each creature within has vulnerability to lightning damage and must succeed on a Dexterity Saving throw or take 2d8 cold damage from the pelting hail. On success, they take half as much damage, but still receive the blindness and vulnerability. On subsequent turns, you may move the point of origin up to 30ft as a part of the minor action used to maintain the Disaster.


3
Your Storm intensifies, growing to a radius of 15ft and allowing you to call lightning. In addition to the effects of Intensity Level 2, you may choose one creature within the area to be struck by lightning simultaneously with the hail. If the creature fails their Saving throw against the hail, they take an additional 2d8 lightning damage. If they succeed, they still take half as much lightning damage.


4
Your Storm culminates into a tornado of destruction, increasing to a radius of 20ft. The Storm obscures vision and hearing. Creatures within are Blinded and Deafened while in the area. The area is treated as difficult terrain for any creature that is flying. Each creature caught within the Storm must succeed on a Strength Saving throw or be lifted to the height of the Storm. Up there, they take 3d8 air damage and 3d8 lighting damage and, if they do not possess a flight speed, become Grappled by the Storm. Creatures that are lifted fall at the start of your next turn.



Intermediate Classes

All features awarded in intermediate classes are additive with features gained from the base classes. For example the stormbows disasters known are in addition to any known from the hedgewitch.

Stormbow(Archer, Hedgewitch)


Level
Features
Disasters Known


1
Nature Magic(Disasters), Storm Arrows
2


2
Wind Piercing Shot
2


3
Storm Soul
2


4
ASI
2


5
Improved Disasters
3



Marksman(Archer)


Level
Features
Precise Attack Dice


1
Improved Accuracy, Precise Attack
-


2
Quickdraw
1d6


3
Elevated Shooting
1d6


4
ASI
2d6


5
Sharpshooter
2d6



Fencer(Archer, Solider)


Level
Features
Flourishes Known
Mana


1
Flourishes, Unarmored Defense
2
2


2
Narrow Profile
3
4


3
Uncanny Dodge
3
6


4
ASI
4
8


5
Extra Attack
4
10



Warrior(Solider)


Level
Features
Maneuvers Known
Mana


1
Super Heavy Weapons, Combat Maneuvers
2
2


2
Improved Fighting Style, Reckless Attack
3
4


3
Goad
3
6


4
ASI
4
8


5
Extra Attack
4
10

[Intregus182]

I think this is super cool and would love to see more and maybr run a game using it sometime

[clash]

I think this is super cool and would love to see more and maybr run a game using it sometime

Thanks. I'll try to get the intermediate classes posted as well so you can get an idea of where it's going.

[Greywander]

This is similar to an idea I had where classes would be cut down to 4 levels and you would "stack" multiple classes as you leveled up. I chose 4 levels because it lined up with getting a proficiency bump every time you started a new class. I never did sit down and write up any classes for this concept, but my plan was to rework existing base classes into a novice class you could start with as early as 1st level, and a master class you couldn't take until higher levels. Existing subclasses would also be reworked into classes. There would have been no prerequisites except for total level, allowing you to mix and match as you please.

[clash]

This is similar to an idea I had where classes would be cut down to 4 levels and you would "stack" multiple classes as you leveled up. I chose 4 levels because it lined up with getting a proficiency bump every time you started a new class. I never did sit down and write up any classes for this concept, but my plan was to rework existing base classes into a novice class you could start with as early as 1st level, and a master class you couldn't take until higher levels. Existing subclasses would also be reworked into classes. There would have been no prerequisites except for total level, allowing you to mix and match as you please.

Yes I remember reading through the stuff you posted on that (I think it was you). It provided some of the inspiration of this. The reason for using prerequisite classes is to allow scaling of key features based off assumptions that you already have them and thematically it made more sense to me as well. I did the 5 level split so that each class could end with a capstone more or less corresponding to a new tier of play.

[Garfunion]

I like this ideal. I personally felt that writing(designing) a class out to level 20 was a bit much, especially when the majority of players don’t even reach that level.

Having a smaller class level size while also allowing for easy multiclassing allows more unique role-playing design concepts.(at least for me).

I await eagerly for your descriptions on these features.

[Amechra]

So, as always when this kind of idea comes up, I feel the burning need to point you towards Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e.

Basically, the system is built around a bunch of loose "classes" called Careers (all of the starting Careers are worth the same amount of XP, while later Careers might be longer or shorter). The trick that it uses is that most of the traits you get from your Careers are standardized and more-or-less of equal value — if you already have the Strike Mighty Blow talent from one career, you can "skip" that talent in any future Career you go through.

What this means is that every single "combat" Career or "rogue" Career can include all of the necessary talents to make that kind of character work... because you skip those talents if you've already been going through similar Careers, and those talents are legitimately useful if you haven't. It also cuts back on the need to come up with a bunch of "higher level" features — a high-tier combat Career isn't a better fighter than a low-tier one because it gives you special "high tier" talents¹, it's a better fighter because it gives you access to better stats, more health, and more attacks.

¹ Though it might give you broader access to talents. To give just one example, "I am good at melee attacks" and "I am good at ranged attacks" use a separate set of stats and talents in WHFRP — the Champion career basically dumps all of the I Am Good At Fighting talents into one big pile and lets you take all of them. Because if all you can do is fight, you should probably be amazing at it.

[Catullus64]

So, as always when this kind of idea comes up, I feel the burning need to point you towards Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e.

Basically, the system is built around a bunch of loose "classes" called Careers (all of the starting Careers are worth the same amount of XP, while later Careers might be longer or shorter). The trick that it uses is that most of the traits you get from your Careers are standardized and more-or-less of equal value — if you already have the Strike Mighty Blow talent from one career, you can "skip" that talent in any future Career you go through.

What this means is that every single "combat" Career or "rogue" Career can include all of the necessary talents to make that kind of character work... because you skip those talents if you've already been going through similar Careers, and those talents are legitimately useful if you haven't. It also cuts back on the need to come up with a bunch of "higher level" features — a high-tier combat Career isn't a better fighter than a low-tier one because it gives you special "high tier" talents¹, it's a better fighter because it gives you access to better stats, more health, and more attacks.

¹ Though it might give you broader access to talents. To give just one example, "I am good at melee attacks" and "I am good at ranged attacks" use a separate set of stats and talents in WHFRP — the Champion career basically dumps all of the I Am Good At Fighting talents into one big pile and lets you take all of them. Because if all you can do is fight, you should probably be amazing at it.

WFRP would definitely be a good source of inspiration, particularly for how the various careers interlink. Although that system also assumes much more granular options that 5e D&D; gaining advances is a much more graduated process than D&D, where power comes in the very large chunks defined by levels; working your way through multiple careers is more gratifying in that game because you're getting some kind of upgrade for pretty much every step of progress. To replicate the feel of leveling in that game, I think you'd want more than 5 levels per "career."

[clash]

So, as always when this kind of idea comes up, I feel the burning need to point you towards Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e.

Basically, the system is built around a bunch of loose "classes" called Careers (all of the starting Careers are worth the same amount of XP, while later Careers might be longer or shorter). The trick that it uses is that most of the traits you get from your Careers are standardized and more-or-less of equal value — if you already have the Strike Mighty Blow talent from one career, you can "skip" that talent in any future Career you go through.

What this means is that every single "combat" Career or "rogue" Career can include all of the necessary talents to make that kind of character work... because you skip those talents if you've already been going through similar Careers, and those talents are legitimately useful if you haven't. It also cuts back on the need to come up with a bunch of "higher level" features — a high-tier combat Career isn't a better fighter than a low-tier one because it gives you special "high tier" talents¹, it's a better fighter because it gives you access to better stats, more health, and more attacks.

¹ Though it might give you broader access to talents. To give just one example, "I am good at melee attacks" and "I am good at ranged attacks" use a separate set of stats and talents in WHFRP — the Champion career basically dumps all of the I Am Good At Fighting talents into one big pile and lets you take all of them. Because if all you can do is fight, you should probably be amazing at it.

I'll definitely take a look but I do want this in place specifically for 5th edition.

I've updated the post with the descriptions for all the classes. Planning on getting the Intermediate classes up next.

[Amechra]

I'll definitely take a look but I do want this in place specifically for 5th edition.

I've updated the post with the descriptions for all the classes. Planning on getting the Intermediate classes up next.

I mostly suggested it because the Career system is a very highly regarded attempt to do something similar to what you're working on. Build your stuff on the shoulders of giants (and all that jazz).

[clash]

I mostly suggested it because the Career system is a very highly regarded attempt to do something similar to what you're working on. Build your stuff on the shoulders of giants (and all that jazz).

Oh completely agreed. I appreciate recommendations for inspiration. I think I even own Warhammer so that works out well

[Intregus182]

This looks great! One question though is what are your plans for Intelligence. I see it isn't associated with a base class which just leaves it goverbing a handful of skills.

Do you plan on implementing anything for Int?

[clash]

This looks great! One question though is what are your plans for Intelligence. I see it isn't associated with a base class which just leaves it goverbing a handful of skills.

Do you plan on implementing anything for Int?

I'm thinking of incorporating it into the orders. It isn't right now but I either want to incorporate it directly or via number of targets etc based on intelligence mod. It just fits the tactician conceptually very well so I want to make it fit mechanically as well.

[Rilmani]

I like it. The mana system reminds me of Mageblade, a booklet I got at a gaming convention. Consider giving each class a way to utilize mana, or some universal mana-based actions; I’ve seen it suggested that hp restoration could use some resource from the healed character (mana points) instead of a limited resource from the spellcaster/medic. Starfinder might give you some ideas. That game, Mageblade, mimicked older versions of D&D though for skill proficiencies, which made their version of Rogue special.

Would this game still have six forms of saving throw? I can imagine a few martial maneuvers or Orders that could trigger a Wisdom or Charisma-based saving throw, so they would not have to be exclusive to the abilities of spellcasters.

So what still needs to be covered or addressed?

1. Skills, and whether skills include Crafting or if it is hand waved to a resource-based system.
2. Equipment. Weapons, foci, reagents for spells/alchemy/scrolls, and ways to store mana. Do weapons have passive or active abilities? Do they have durability?
3. Feats, races, and templates. Through magic, science, or a quirk of a race including metamorphosis a being’s makeup could change through their adventures. Abilities like flight, disease immunity, true sight, echolocation… abilities which are not solely useful in combat. Traits which establish the difference between two characters with the same class.
4. Minions, pets, familiars, summoned creatures. Do these creatures have classes?
5. Conditions. Unconscious, sure, but what else?



So for Advanced classes (each with a minimum total character level of 4, 6, 8, or 10) you could make a few that work based on Constitution. One would have few features, but would grant d10 or d12 hit dice that work according to 5e hit dice rules. Another would grant d4 or d6 hit dice which can be used to augment spells.

Paragon classes could work along the lines of prestige classes from 3.5 or pathfinder, or they could be replaced with Epic Boons. Or Paragon Classes could be based off of equipment like artifacts as a requirement for entry.

[clash]

I like it. The mana system reminds me of Mageblade, a booklet I got at a gaming convention. Consider giving each class a way to utilize mana, or some universal mana-based actions; I’ve seen it suggested that hp restoration could use some resource from the healed character (mana points) instead of a limited resource from the spellcaster/medic. Starfinder might give you some ideas. That game, Mageblade, mimicked older versions of D&D though for skill proficiencies, which made their version of Rogue special.

Would this game still have six forms of saving throw? I can imagine a few martial maneuvers or Orders that could trigger a Wisdom or Charisma-based saving throw, so they would not have to be exclusive to the abilities of spellcasters.

So what still needs to be covered or addressed?

1. Skills, and whether skills include Crafting or if it is hand waved to a resource-based system.
2. Equipment. Weapons, foci, reagents for spells/alchemy/scrolls, and ways to store mana. Do weapons have passive or active abilities? Do they have durability?
3. Feats, races, and templates. Through magic, science, or a quirk of a race including metamorphosis a being’s makeup could change through their adventures. Abilities like flight, disease immunity, true sight, echolocation… abilities which are not solely useful in combat. Traits which establish the difference between two characters with the same class.
4. Minions, pets, familiars, summoned creatures. Do these creatures have classes?
5. Conditions. Unconscious, sure, but what else?



So for Advanced classes (each with a minimum total character level of 4, 6, 8, or 10) you could make a few that work based on Constitution. One would have few features, but would grant d10 or d12 hit dice that work according to 5e hit dice rules. Another would grant d4 or d6 hit dice which can be used to augment spells.

Paragon classes could work along the lines of prestige classes from 3.5 or pathfinder, or they could be replaced with Epic Boons. Or Paragon Classes could be based off of equipment like artifacts as a requirement for entry.

1. Skills and related abilities will be managed by the job system that runs adjacent to the classes. Classes have no expectation of out of combat utility.

2. Until I decide to revamp equipment(which o have to some extent but nothing serious) all the standard 5e stuff should work.

3. Races will remain standard 5e races... For now.

I'm planning four tiers of classes, each 5 levels long. An example of a class progression is:

Mage, channeler, mystic, ultimate magus

[clash]

Started Adding Intermediate classes. More updates to follow.

[KittenMagician]

@OP i think you should read the light novel for Overlord. they have a system in which this idea is brought up. it might give you a little inspiration

[clash]

@OP i think you should read the light novel for Overlord. they have a system in which this idea is brought up. it might give you a little inspiration

Definitely going to take a look. Thanks

[Intregus182]

Can you post maybe one or 2 jobs for us to see too?

This all looks really fun and interesting!

[clash]

Can you post maybe one or 2 jobs for us to see too?

This all looks really fun and interesting!

Started adding jobs here to give you an idea https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?646412-5e-Branching-job-system&p=25478432#post25478432