Fun or interesting Gith builds?

[Havlock]

Greetings all. I'm fishing for some ideas for a new campaign our table is spinning up and there are some very clever and creative folks here so let's see what you've got :)

Premise is the PCs are part of a secret sect of Gith working to unite the two Gith surbraces. A bit of a spelljammer feel with the PCs roaming the multiverse. You can be githyanki or githzerai. 27 point buy. Free lvl1 feat. Starting lvl 8.

I'm leaning towards LudicSavant's Arcana Cleric (as a githzerai) or his Ancestral Avenger (githyanki)... all things being equal i would like to lean into the evil and superiority complex of a githyanki. I'm also the optimizer at our table and that Ancestral Avenger might be a bit OP for the party...

Any suggestions?

Edit: I think we're using the pre-MotM Gith... +1 int and either +2 str or +2 wis depending on subrace. Tasha's custom lineage is not an option.. should have clarified that earlier. Sry.

[x3n0n]

Are you playing with "new" Monsters of the Multiverse Githyanki/Githzerai or the older Gith?

I think the Ancestral Avenger is probably reasonable for a low-op table, especially if you hold off on GWM (which you need to delay anyway if you don't get a free feat, since you won't be v.human).
Your party may well enjoy having someone keeping enemies at bay, letting your squishies and archers beat up on things.

[Mastikator]

How do you feel about bladesinger? Using tasha's customizing origin and githyanki you could add +2 int, +1 dex. Have str 8, dex 16, con 14, int 16, wis 12, cha 8 from level 1 and have up to 5 added tool proficiencies traded from martial prodigy (skip medium armor, just cast mage armor). As a full wizard you are super powered, and you have melee options. I'd use your two ASIs to up int to 20.

[Unoriginal]

Greetings all. I'm fishing for some ideas for a new campaign our table is spinning up and there are some very clever and creative folks here so let's see what you've got :)

Premise is the PCs are part of a secret sect of Gith working to unite the two Gith surbraces. A bit of a spelljammer feel with the PCs roaming the multiverse. You can be githyanki or githzerai. 27 point buy. Free lvl1 feat. Starting lvl 8.

I'm leaning towards LudicSavant's Arcana Cleric (as a githzerai) or his Ancestral Avenger (githyanki)... all things being equal i would like to lean into the evil and superiority complex of a githyanki. I'm also the optimizer at our table and that Ancestral Avenger might be a bit OP for the party...

Any suggestions?

Githyanki Pact of the Blade Celestial Warlock, using Green Flame Blade with a Greatsword, is a favorite suggestion of mine.

With a free feat at lvl 1, I suggest Telepathic or Telekinetic.

[Psyren]

The new Githzerai get the shield spell and can have any ability score bonuses they want. An Eldritch Knight or Swords Bard could be pretty good.

[Havlock]

Githyanki Pact of the Blade Celestial Warlock, using Green Flame Blade with a Greatsword, is a favorite suggestion of mine.

With a free feat at lvl 1, I suggest Telepathic or Telekinetic.

I like the flavour but doesn't the lack of Charisma hurt?... mind you... if he's more of a blaster gish I suppose that doesn't matter so much ... interesting

[Havlock]

How do you feel about bladesinger? Using tasha's customizing origin and githyanki you could add +2 int, +1 dex. Have str 8, dex 16, con 14, int 16, wis 12, cha 8 from level 1 and have up to 5 added tool proficiencies traded from martial prodigy (skip medium armor, just cast mage armor). As a full wizard you are super powered, and you have melee options. I'd use your two ASIs to up int to 20.

I'm running a war wiz in another campaign atm so I was thinking of mixing it up. Thats definitely an option though.

[Psyren]

I like the flavour but doesn't the lack of Charisma hurt?... mind you... if he's more of a blaster gish I suppose that doesn't matter so much ... interesting

This is why folks were asking which Gith you're using - the latest versions from Monsters of the Multiverse can put their stat boosts anywhere you want, either +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1.

[Unoriginal]

I like the flavour but doesn't the lack of Charisma hurt?... mind you... if he's more of a blaster gish I suppose that doesn't matter so much ... interesting

Not sure what you mean by "lack of Charisma".

If you're using standard array, you can put the 15 in CHA, then take Telepathic or Telekinetic for +1 in CHA, ending up with 16.

Not that 14-15 is "lacking" for a lvl-1-to-3 character, anyway.

[x3n0n]

This is why folks were asking which Gith you're using - the latest versions from Monsters of the Multiverse can put their stat boosts anywhere you want, either +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1.

Along with other features; for example, the hypothetical MPMotM Githzerai Arcana Cleric is allowed to use spell slots on shield.

[No brains]

Go Arcane Trickster with Telekinetic as the bonus feat. Act like you're being haunted and just invisibly and component-lessly shuffle items nonstop.

I guess a Githzerai could make a decent Ranger. Possibly Gloom Stalker for full flavor, but Horizon Walker could fit the bill.

[Havlock]

Not sure what you mean by "lack of Charisma".

If you're using standard array, you can put the 15 in CHA, then take Telepathic or Telekinetic for +1 in CHA, ending up with 16.

Not that 14-15 is "lacking" for a lvl-1-to-3 character, anyway.

You're right of course.. I think that was my inner optimizer balking at the concept of making a warlock that didn't get a racial stat bump to charisma.. but the free feat does help offset that.

And with a Celestial Warlock I can do fun evil things like animate dead. This is something I could get behind

Edit: Drat. I'm thinking Celestial Sorcerer... hmm

[Unoriginal]

You're right of course.. I think that was my inner optimizer balking at the concept of making a warlock that didn't get a racial stat bump to charisma.. but the free feat does help offset that.

And with a Celestial Warlock I can do fun evil things like animate dead. This is something I could get behind

Edit: Drat. I'm thinking Celestial Sorcerer... hmm

Celestial Warlock is more about fire and radiant damage.

A Laser Rebel, if you will.

[Psyren]

You're right of course.. I think that was my inner optimizer balking at the concept of making a warlock that didn't get a racial stat bump to charisma.. but the free feat does help offset that.

And with a Celestial Warlock I can do fun evil things like animate dead. This is something I could get behind

Edit: Drat. I'm thinking Celestial Sorcerer... hmm

So you are using the old MToF Gith and not the new MotM ones? It's still not totally clear.

[strangebloke]

MMOM githzerai are amazing clerics. Its already been mentioned, but they get Shield add to their spell list and psychic resistance. So your beefy forge cleric can just casually hit like 26-27 AC without sweating.

MMOM githzerai are also pretty good monks, though admittedly they really want to dip into a casting class so they get more access to shield. It's not super strong but you can make a really fun Githzerai Astral monk. With point buy you can grab something like 8/16/14/8/17/10 at level 1, then grab observant at 4. Dip whatever cleric flavor you want for one level to get a few extra panic shield slots. You'll have mage hand and detect thoughts with no components, shield for if things get hairy, massive perception ability, advantage on insight and intimidation when you want it, and really efficient stunning strikes. You're also a very efficient grappler.

Is this strong? Not really, but its kinda cool, yeah?

[x3n0n]

So, after clarifications edited into the OP (MToF not MotM, no Tasha's swaps, one free feat, starting character level 8), I think it's possible to build Ancestral Avenger.
However, it gets almost no mechanical benefit at all from your race: mage hand, one jump, and one misty step per day (which you can't use while raging), redundant/wasted armor/weapon proficiency, a language, and a skill.

Since you're starting at 8, might as well take the extra HP by starting Barb:

Githyanki, bonus feat Sentinel
Str 14+2=16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 9+1=10, Wis 11, Cha 10.
Barbarian (Ancestral Guardians) 3, Fighter (Echo Knight) 5 (Great Weapon Fighting or Defense)
ASI @ Fighter 4: whatever, I guess? GWM to lean into damage, Con to recover the lost toughness and Unleash Incarnation that you would have gotten from v.human?

All in all, the "martial" Gith subrace ends up wasting pretty much all of its mechanical abilities by taking a martial class with no Tasha's swaps.

[Phhase]

If you can use the old Githyanki, then I recommend artificer. Using the Tasha's rules, you can swap all the armor and weapon proficiencies for tool proficiencies, so you have All The Tools + Tool Expertise.

For new Gith, I recommend Githzerai Totem Barbarian, so you can take Bear Totem and Resist Everything.

[Dork_Forge]

My favourite is a Githyanki Fighter Psi Warrior, it's just a Jedi in a box.

[Kane0]

Im having a great time with a gith clockwork soul using telekinetic

Other than that, Psi Knight and Soulknife feels like natural fits, and the telepathic/telekinetic feats in general.

GoOlock, Astral Monk and most artificers, clerics, paladins and wizards also sound fine

[Corran]

Premise is the PCs are part of a secret sect of Gith working to unite the two Gith surbraces.
It might help narrow the available choices (ie any good build) by thinking of a roleplaying angle. Why is your character part of this effort?

Did your character suffer loss because of this conflict? Enlightenment/ fighting for a noble purpose because of past suffering is a common enough trope. A peace cleric and a redemption paladin could fit wel here, though so do many other choices.

Or you could go with a character with some hippie vibes if you want. You could play it however seriously or light heartidely you want.

Or was it ambition? Perhaps you were a no one before this sect took you in. But now you have a way up. Perhaps you dont care about the cause, only about climbing the ranks of the sect so that one day, if successful, you'll have more of your what you are really after (power fix, gold, whatever). Personally I am very fond of playing an ambitious character when there is a structure much like your sect here providing me the opportunity to advance the character socially and not just mechanically as the game is moving forward.

Or maybe you are a zealot. Sect took you in as a nobody (much like above) and it gave you a purpose. This purpose was your way out of a life of either hardships or empty meaning, and that's why it's so hard to give it up. Of course on a conscious level it's something you greatly believe in. This approach means your chatacter is very motivated when it comes to suceeding at quests, which can help with enjoying the campaign (and also allows for an interesting change of pace personality wise when you are doing quests for the sect and when not).

Maybe you are there for the opportunities such an endeavour presents. Uniting the gith seems like a goal that requires getting on your side all the help you can get. Maybe the sect wont mind individuals with questionable practices. Maybe you are an enchanter who views this challenge as the perfect opportunity to experiment. The campaign idea sounds a bit incompatible with classic adventuring so without knowing more about the campaign or your DM, I would guess that I would be in for some cheap twists as the game moves on. So playing a character who is not too invested but rather uses this opporunity about as much as they are being used themselves, sounds like a solid choice for an rp angle (as a possible twist wont have me try to drastically reimagine my character mid campaign).

[Rukelnikov]

Cool concept, If I was playing that, I'd have to stop myself from saying "There cannot be two skies" every other conversation :P

[Witty Username]

MMOM githzerai are amazing clerics. Its already been mentioned, but they get Shield add to their spell list and psychic resistance. So your beefy forge cleric can just casually hit like 26-27 AC without sweating.

MMOM githzerai are also pretty good monks, though admittedly they really want to dip into a casting class so they get more access to shield. It's not super strong but you can make a really fun Githzerai Astral monk. With point buy you can grab something like 8/16/14/8/17/10 at level 1, then grab observant at 4. Dip whatever cleric flavor you want for one level to get a few extra panic shield slots. You'll have mage hand and detect thoughts with no components, shield for if things get hairy, massive perception ability, advantage on insight and intimidation when you want it, and really efficient stunning strikes. You're also a very efficient grappler.

Is this strong? Not really, but its kinda cool, yeah?

Cleric 5 into astral monk may be fun, that gets you a nice mix of spells for shield, support and that monk flavor. I would use knowledge cleric for the psionic flavor and go for a fist of Zuoken vibe.

[Jervis]

Greetings all. I'm fishing for some ideas for a new campaign our table is spinning up and there are some very clever and creative folks here so let's see what you've got :)

Premise is the PCs are part of a secret sect of Gith working to unite the two Gith surbraces. A bit of a spelljammer feel with the PCs roaming the multiverse. You can be githyanki or githzerai. 27 point buy. Free lvl1 feat. Starting lvl 8.

I'm leaning towards LudicSavant's Arcana Cleric (as a githzerai) or his Ancestral Avenger (githyanki)... all things being equal i would like to lean into the evil and superiority complex of a githyanki. I'm also the optimizer at our table and that Ancestral Avenger might be a bit OP for the party...

Any suggestions?

Edit: I think we're using the pre-MotM Gith... +1 int and either +2 str or +2 wis depending on subrace. Tasha's custom lineage is not an option.. should have clarified that earlier. Sry.

Githyanki bladesingers were better before the errata because you could make a str build that just uses medium armor. But the crossbow expert feat makes them still pretty good, as it does with everything. The floating weapon prof does wonders for you in that respect. And yes i like this just because Gith deserve a gish wizard subclass and stealing a elf's is the best way to make it work in 5e.

Since you're using pre-errata you can forget that bladesong exists and wear medium armor with a Githyanki. Use a (silvered) greatsword with BB. Take the telekinetic feat and BA shove. Makes for some great DPR at level 6+. Yes you can't use your level 2, but bladesinger EA is just that good. Also the best way to play a literal, lore accurate, and effective Gish.

Also if your DM is open to homebrew i have made a Gish subclass that i would like to shamelessly shill. https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?645676-Wizard-Order-of-the-Skilled-(Gish)-PEACH It has two different takes on the level 2 and 10 feature based on taste. For my money the versions i have at the end of the thread are the more balanced and elegant of the two. To bring it more in line with BS i would change psychic tradition to a BA to activate without immediate benefit, though personally I think as is would work better.

[Leon]

I like the flavour but doesn't the lack of Charisma hurt?... mind you... if he's more of a blaster gish I suppose that doesn't matter so much ... interesting

{Scrubbed}

[Chaos Jackal]

Since you mentioned LudicSavant's thread and you're leaning more towards githyanki, playing an Iron Wizard (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23837856&postcount=45) is also a solid option. Str boost is kind of wasted, but you get medium armor straight out of the box, so it saves you a feat (no shields though).

Generally speaking, you can make most wizards work quite well with githyanki; medium armor is always useful, as is misty step, and the invisible mage hand and free skill are nice. And what better class to make displays of superiority than wizard?

If you wanna lean into the military aspect fully too, go War Magic instead of Abjuration; it's not the best subclass, but hey, it's still a wizard and it can play right into your concept.


You don't need any stat Boost to play any class. To not play a Race/class combo you like the look of because you don't get a stat boost to X stat is just a silly choice to make.

"Needing" is one thing. It's still better to have a higher stat. It's a good reason to want to play something, or to avoid playing something else. It's both stronger and, quite often, better for reinforcing a concept. And OP even says they're optimizing.

It's not a silly choice. It's a legitimate one. It's a reasonable one. It's just not a choice you'd make.

[Havlock]

Thanks for the ideas all. I think I've landed on a build. Its MAD as he11 but the DM is on-board with the idea and a Giant Strength Belt is likely an option. That said, here's my extra creepy Gith Greatsword weilding monstrosity..

Lvl 8 Great Old One Warlock
Pact of the Blade
Race: Githyanki
Background: City Watch
Skills: Persuasion, Athletics, Insight, Deception, Intimidation
Languages: Common, Gith, Deep Speech, Draconic, Undercommon
Stats (at lvl8): 13 str, 14 dex, 14 con, 10 int, 10 wis, 16 cha
Feats: Actor, GWM, Resilient(con)
Invocations: Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, Eldritch Mind, Mask of Many Faces
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Friends, Minor Illusion, Mage Hand (gith)
Spells: Shadow of Moil, Charm Monster, Dimension Door, Clairavoyance, Hypnotic Pattern, Counterspell, Detect Thoughts, Mirror Image, Armor of Agathys

[Leon]

It's not a silly choice. It's a legitimate one. It's a reasonable one. It's just not a choice you'd make.

Yeah everyone wants the big numbers but they are not needed to the extent that people like to make them out to be.
To not play a character idea because your preferred race for it doesn't get a bonus to that stat isn't a reasonable one, its one that beggers belief that your actually playing a character and not just a set of numbers.

[Naanomi]

It may not be mechanically spectacular, but a Monster Slayer Ranger is a pretty traditional Gith Illithid Hunter conceptually

[jacen83]

I’m a couple weeks late to the conversation. But was a little surprised to find someone with nearly the same character concept that I was searching for. I too am wanting to make a Gith member of the Sha'sal Khou who seeks unification of the two subspecies. This will be in the new spelljammer campaign, so we’ll do the 5-8 published then homebrew afterwards where the DM said she would weave our backstories in.

I’ve been flip flopping on how to build it for a month now. Im going to stick with the githyanki theme of greatsword, and am stuck between a psi warrior/ wizard multi class or a Sorcadin (which I ran by the DM who then suggested the smites be reskinned to psychic to fit theme). Sorcadin sounds more fun and I’ve never done it. On the other hand, if the DM weaves our backstories in, I think an intelligence based character would do far better against illithids.

Anyhow, build is on hold until new content. I think new spells or backgrounds (which might have free feats) might help me decide one way or the other.

Thanks for the comments made here. Made for some good reading and gave me a few more things to think about.