XCom [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

NEO|Phyte

2007-11-26, 01:29 PM

Winterwind

2007-11-26, 02:32 PM

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4196/1184911889236yb1.jpg
So as to stop the derailment of the greatest game of all time thread, I figured that we could start up an XCom thread.I love that picture. Perfectly captures one of the most notable moments in the game. :smallbiggrin:
And the Chryssalid's grin is perfect, too.

After trying (and failing) the final mission in my first successful game, I decided to take what I had learned and start anew. A handy combination of luck and more luck got me a captured navigator and a psionic alien in the first month, so as far as catching crafts goes, I've been sitting pretty.Wow. That is pretty awesome indeed.

I think in my first game it took me half a year to catch a psionic alien.

By the third month I had hyperwave radar thingies everywhere but south africa and the poles, so I went around popping ships, visiting the wrecks I figured would be worth looting.If you don't visit a wreck, the UFO will be repaired within about a day, and fly on again. This should answer your question below, too.

Keep several Skyrangers/Avengers (or Lightnings, though I personally consider the Lightning to be just about the most redundant piece of junk imaginable) ready, each with a spare crew, to use them if your main task force is too occupied to go on some mission.

The first spot of bother came when a PAIR of Sectiod battleships visited Australasia on infiltration missions. (Side note: I hate sectiods (and Ethereals), because they are somehow able to target people they do not have line of sight to with their mind powers, and they always seem to know who is psionically weak) An experience I made in my first game: Do not, repeat, do not put your Blaster Rocket Launcher on the psionically weakest member of the team. :smallbiggrin:

As I lacked the firepower to be able to shoot them down at the time, I waited for one to land and got my team there stat. Frankly, with Battleships I wouldn't ever do anything else. While an Avenger with Plasma Guns and/or Fusion Ball Launchers (or whatever they are called in English) can overpower a Battleship, it is a poor trade. Not only will the Avenger spend an entire month being repaired after that, but you will also get much more points and Elerium out of a landed Battleship than its wreckage.

Mission successful, but they didn't get home and refueled in time to catch the other one.Yes, that's normal - when the game progresses, they tend to come in too large numbers.

If you find you lack the troop transport vessels or the troops to visit every wreckage, do your best to shoot the UFO down above water, that way, it will be destroyed.

At the end of the month, Australia had signed a pact, and stopped funding. A month or so later, the Snakemen sent a single battleship to infiltrate North Africa. Intercepted when they landed, mission success, but at the end of the month, Nigeria had signed a pact and was out. Around the same time, alien bases started cropping up, despite me shooting down any alien base UFOs that showed up. This has led to me pondering whether alien missions can still succeed if you shoot down a craft but do not loot the wreckage, and similarly, if alien missions can succeed simply by landing, even if you take out the landed ship.See above for the wrecked ones. As for the landed ones, I don't think so, but I can't guarantee it.

I think it might have something to do with there being too many alien bases around.

Also, note you do not necessarily see every UFO around - the radars only give you a chance per time frame to detect a UFO, not a guarantee. Not sure about the decoder, though.

Currently sitting in early December, passing the time until I have enough verified 90+ Psionic Strength soldiers to have a nice solid primary team to start trashing bases with.

Those that don't qualify are assigned to my secondary team, which is used for clearing up wrecks that I don't want to waste Elerium sending the Avenger too. The truly hopeless soldiers (under 30 Psionic Strength) are simply canned.Good thinking, on both accounts, though I would reconsider if a soldier was a particularly good shot.

My standard gear loadout is Flight Suit, Laser Rifle, Medikit. If I want survivors, a pair of soldiers will have a Small Launcher and 8 spare Stun Bombs. If/when I incorporate psionics into my teams, they'll have Laser Pistols and Psi Amps. If I decide I have enough spare Elerium to start using it, Alien Grenades could become standard-issue as well.I think I wouldn't pack a Medikit on every soldier - interspace it with Alien Grenades, those can be really useful. There is no reason why the Psions should not have Laser Rifles as well. You might consider giving a few of the soldiers Heavy Plasmas - not all, or else you might run low on ammo, but a few - against most foes, these are better weapons, having both more firepower and precision. Alternatively, you might also give some soldier a Heavy Laser and use him as sniper, for the really difficult shots.
Also, I would definitely incorporate a Blaster Rocket Launcher. You can even keep him in the Avenger, a Blaster Rocket always hits precisely where you want after all, and is guided. Use him for when you want to clear out a building with aliens in it on a landing site, or some place with many corners where you can't see the alien, yet might get shot via Reaction if you step forward. Also good for taking out the heavy guns of the aliens.

So, how much am I doing wrong? Are plasma weapons worth having to bother with ammo and having at least one hostile critter that is specifically resistant to it?Yes, they are, since you know who you are up against usually, and they are better against most foes. They have enough shots per clip for it to rarely become an issue on a mission (but keep a clip in the belt, just in case).
But don't make all of your soldiers use those, keep about half of them using Laser Rifles, or you will shoot your Heavy Plasmas empty faster than you find spare ammo (and Elerium is too valuable to be wasted for production of that).

Am I a fool for having never thrown a grenade (or used ANY explosives, for that matter)?Well, at any rate, I use them quite often, to rather good effects.
I also always have one guy have an Auto Cannon with HE ammo at the game's start - that way, even if you miss, you are likely to still get the enemy. Later on, he upgrades to the Blaster Rocket Launcher.

Is flight and slightly better armor worth the extra Elerium for Flight Suits?Yes, definitely.

Also, I would use a Hover Tank with a plasma gun, to use where it is too dangerous to send a soldier in - the Tank can usually withstand a couple of hits after all, and the firepower is rather nice, too (the Blaster Rocket version is excessive and doesn't fit in well with the primary function of the tank, which is to go close up to the enemy, and besides you don't need that many Blaster Rockets). Most importantly, you can always replace a tank, but finding good shots and telepaths with lots of experience is much more difficult.

NEO|Phyte

2007-11-26, 02:47 PM

Winterwind

2007-11-26, 03:02 PM

Why would I not have rifles on my Psions? Because you lose accuracy shooting a two-handed weapon in one hand, and although I haven't actually used Psions yet, I imagine they don't need to worry about hitting with their mind rays. Plus it makes sense that a non-primary combatant would be less armed. I COULD simply not have the Amp out until I want to use it, but that takes precious Time Units.No, they don't need to worry about hitting with their "mind rays" or even a line of sight (and your best Psions will, after a bit of practice, soon be able to Mind Control even Ethereal Leaders, which is just plain awesome :smallbiggrin: ), but you rarely need all their time points to mind control everything you see on your turn - which means that it doesn't hurt if they have a nice weapon to shoot whatever it is they have controlled, or any aliens unlucky enough to run in front of them, especially since there is a very high chance that your best psions will be your best shots also (basically, your highest ranking, most experienced soldiers). If you can have the variety of both options (controlling or shooting), why not take it?

Rifles lose accuracy when your second hand is occupied? :smalleek:
Wow, now here is something I didn't know, even after all these years! :smallredface:

Still, the accuracy drop is not high enough for the rifle to not remain the better weapon still - even with just one hand, they remain more precise than pistols. The only soldiers who use pistols in my armies are the wielders of Heavy Cannons (though I rarely use these nowadays)/Auto Cannons/Small Launchers/Blaster Rocket Launchers, because they are already carrying a super heavy weapon, hence shouldn't have to carry around the weight of a rifle also.

For the medkits, giving everyone one is convenient when you aren't using your belt for anything else. Its not exactly like they cost anything major to make anyway.That's true (except more weight, of course, but that should be negligible); I thought you meant they were bearing them in hand. Okay then.

Hmm, I'll probably do some partial switches to Plasma, add some variance to my loadouts. Can plasma rifles 1shot Mutons? That'd be a major selling point, those green bastards can take multiple laser blasts.I don't think anything save Blaster Rockets can reliably one-shot Mutons. Still, they are more powerful and precise, and in the hand of a good marksman you do have a good chance of killing a Muton before it can retaliate. I wouldn't use Plasma Rifles but Heavy Plasmas, by the way - as opposed to the Heavy Laser, these have an Auto Fire mode as well, if you want that, and they pack a massive punch.

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-26, 03:06 PM

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4196/1184911889236yb1.jpg
So as to stop the derailment of the greatest game of all time thread, I figured that we could start up an XCom thread.

You just made me giggle like a schoolgirl...

...well, a strong, manly schoolgirl.

What?

After trying (and failing) the final mission in my first successful game, I decided to take what I had learned and start anew. A handy combination of luck and more luck got me a captured navigator and a psionic alien in the first month, so as far as catching crafts goes, I've been sitting pretty. By the third month I had hyperwave radar thingies everywhere but south africa and the poles, so I went around popping ships, visiting the wrecks I figured would be worth looting.

First problem, don't let the wrecks just sit there. They will repair and complete their mission.

The first spot of bother came when a PAIR of Sectiod battleships visited Australasia on infiltration missions. (Side note: I hate sectiods (and Ethereals), because they are somehow able to target people they do not have line of sight to with their mind powers, and they always seem to know who is psionically weak) As I lacked the firepower to be able to shoot them down at the time, I waited for one to land and got my team there stat. Mission successful, but they didn't get home and refueled in time to catch the other one. At the end of the month, Australia had signed a pact, and stopped funding. A month or so later, the Snakemen sent a single battleship to infiltrate North Africa. Intercepted when they landed, mission success, but at the end of the month, Nigeria had signed a pact and was out.

This is why I usually have 3 Skyrangers on call at different spots around the map. Can't say why you still lost Nigeria, though. Not like it's a big loss, though.

You can return the favor on psionics. Put the Psi-amp on someone in the back of the ship and whenever needed he can mess with an enemy's head from there.

Around the same time, alien bases started cropping up, despite me shooting down any alien base UFOs that showed up. This has led to me pondering whether alien missions can still succeed if you shoot down a craft but do not loot the wreckage, and similarly, if alien missions can succeed simply by landing, even if you take out the landed ship.

Alien bases will show up without you ever seeing the ship that built them land, trust me. By the time I finished my first game, I was on Base 20 and I'm still pretty sure I didn't find them all. A dead giveaway that a base is nearby is when Supply Ships start showing up. If a supply ship shows up, follow it until it lands and take it, but also have an Interceptor patrol that spot, 9 out of 10 says he turns up a base.

Currently sitting in early December, passing the time until I have enough verified 90+ Psionic Strength soldiers to have a nice solid primary team to start trashing bases with. Those that don't qualify are assigned to my secondary team, which is used for clearing up wrecks that I don't want to waste Elerium sending the Avenger too.

I don't even bother with the Avenger until it's needed, myself. The Skyranger is more than serviceable enough.

The truly hopeless soldiers (under 30 Psionic Strength) are simply canned.

Send them to radar outposts as a garrison. I only ever have 3 or 4 bases and cover the rest of the map with radar outposts (both radars, hanger with Interceptor, Living Quarters, General Stores, Hyperwave and Mind Shield). Garrison with a tank and 15 soldiers (personal armour, laser rifle and pistol, special weapons to taste)

My standard gear loadout is Flight Suit, Laser Rifle, Medikit. If I want survivors, a pair of soldiers will have a Small Launcher and 8 spare Stun Bombs. If/when I incorporate psionics into my teams, they'll have Laser Pistols and Psi Amps. If I decide I have enough spare Elerium to start using it, Alien Grenades could become standard-issue as well.

I only ever use a single medkit. He sits under the Skyranger between the landing gear and the loading ramp until needed. What I do is Laser Rifle, Power Suit (at least, I have a hard time keeping up with attrition), Laser Pistol, and Alien Grenade. Using a Laser Pistol as a sidearm from as soon as they are available is a good way to build stamina (by the end, I had troops with more stamina than a Chryssalid)

So, how much am I doing wrong? Are plasma weapons worth having to bother with ammo and having at least one hostile critter that is specifically resistant to it? Am I a fool for having never thrown a grenade (or used ANY explosives, for that matter)? Is flight and slightly better armor worth the extra Elerium for Flight Suits?

The heavy plasma, despite alien resistances, is a good all purpose weapon. In a 14 man load I have 4 of them and extra clips. If you're worried about ammo remember this: every alien is a walking ammo cache. Walk out, kill alien, someone with a laser rifle can walk out and pick up the alien's weapon and use it. Shipwise, the plasma cannon is the best weapon out there. It has enough power to take down anything short of a battleship and outranges everything but the battleship to boot. Use standard attack and watch as your Interceptor pounds the daylights out of that large while not receiving any incoming fire.

Edit:

I'll probably do some partial switches to Plasma, add some variance to my loadouts. Can plasma rifles 1shot Mutons? That'd be a major selling point, those green bastards can take multiple laser blasts.

Yes, yes they can. Doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. Better off just going straight for Heavy Plasma, though. Later in the game that's all the aliens will be carrying anyway.

Tekraen

2007-11-26, 03:20 PM

Winterwind

2007-11-26, 03:27 PM

I absolutely loathed the Laser Cannon because of its range. It would've been fantastic if it at least had the range of a medium range missile, but the range it gave made it worthless against anything over a Small-class ship.Perfectly true - though at the beginning, when all that shows up are Small-class UFOs, it can spare you a good deal of missiles You can upgrade rather early to a Plasma Cannon anyway. That's costly on the Elerium, but meh... one won't get far in the game if one never uses that stuff for anything, right? :smallbiggrin:

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-26, 03:50 PM

Perfectly true - though at the beginning, when all that shows up are Small-class UFOs, it can spare you a good deal of missiles You can upgrade rather early to a Plasma Cannon anyway. That's costly on the Elerium, but meh... one won't get far in the game if one never uses that stuff for anything, right? :smallbiggrin:

Only really a problem if you're tight on cash and short on missles. By the time you're researching the Laser Cannon, maintaining a steady income shouldn't be much of a problem.

Winterwind

2007-11-26, 04:05 PM

Only really a problem if you're tight on cash and short on missles. By the time you're researching the Laser Cannon, maintaining a steady income shouldn't be much of a problem.Actually, I meant that more in the sense of the comfort of no longer having to care about buying new Avalanche missiles (and storage space, but if you sell everything not needed that shouldn't become much of an issue). But then, I often get the Plasma Cannon before the Laser one anyway, making it redundant.

Say - is there any point I have missed in
- Stingray missiles (why would one ever use those instead of Avalanches?)
- Stun sticks (first, who would go into melee with an alien, and second, by the time you have any reason to try to capture aliens, you have Small Launchers anyway)
- Power Armour (unlike Personal armour, these require Elerium - but they are strictly inferior to Flight Armour, which you can have very shortly after them, so why would one build these?)
- the Lightning craft (inferior to the Firestorm in combat ability, inferior to the Avenger in every regard)

Fun fact: It is possible to Mind Control a Sectopod or a Cyberdisc, but you control only a part of it. You can still move the entire alien robot around, but it constantly sees an enemy alien (itself) and it is possible that it reacts to itself and shoots itself dead (had it happen several times) :smallbiggrin: .

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-26, 04:14 PM

Actually, I meant that more in the sense of the comfort of no longer having to care about buying new Avalanche missiles (and storage space, but if you sell everything not needed that shouldn't become much of an issue). But then, I often get the Plasma Cannon before the Laser one anyway, making it redundant.

Sounds about right :smallbiggrin:

Say - is there any point I have missed in
- Stingray missiles (why would one ever use those instead of Avalanches?)

They're a decent backup, take up less room than Avalanches and cheaper to boot. Dunno, I guess I never really felt like going thru the trouble of selling them and buying a new Avalanche launcher a missles. Especially when if you double up on Avalanches they become fire linked and you go thru missles twice as fast.

- Stun sticks (first, who would go into melee with an alien, and second, by the time you have any reason to try to capture aliens, you have Small Launchers anyway)

I use a single one and I only use it if the opportunity presents itself pretty much exclusively against Sectoids and Floaters. But I try to capture live aliens right from the start.

- Power Armour (unlike Personal armour, these require Elerium - but they are strictly inferior to Flight Armour, which you can have very shortly after them, so why would one build these?)

Cheaper and take less time and material to build. I don't find the armour difference to be that great, it's only about ten points.

- the Lightning craft (inferior to the Firestorm in combat ability, inferior to the Avenger in every regard)

I built one for fun once, but that's the only reason I can think of to build it. You forgot that it has less carrying capacity than a Skyranger as well.

Fun fact: It is possible to Mind Control a Sectopod or a Cyberdisc, but you control only a part of it. You can still move the entire alien robot around, but it constantly sees an enemy alien (itself) and it is possible that it reacts to itself and shoots itself dead (had it happen several times) :smallbiggrin: .

Most effective way of killing the freaking things. Try to move and watch as it shoots itself in the head several times. Really fun with Cyberdiscs in a crowded area.

Tekraen

2007-11-26, 04:20 PM

Actually, I meant that more in the sense of the comfort of no longer having to care about buying new Avalanche missiles (and storage space, but if you sell everything not needed that shouldn't become much of an issue). But then, I often get the Plasma Cannon before the Laser one anyway, making it redundant.

Say - is there any point I have missed in
- Stingray missiles (why would one ever use those instead of Avalanches?)
- Stun sticks (first, who would go into melee with an alien, and second, by the time you have any reason to try to capture aliens, you have Small Launchers anyway)
- Power Armour (unlike Personal armour, these require Elerium - but they are strictly inferior to Flight Armour, which you can have very shortly after them, so why would one build these?)
- the Lightning craft (inferior to the Firestorm in combat ability, inferior to the Avenger in every regard)

Fun fact: It is possible to Mind Control a Sectopod or a Cyberdisc, but you control only a part of it. You can still move the entire alien robot around, but it constantly sees an enemy alien (itself) and it is possible that it reacts to itself and shoots itself dead (had it happen several times) :smallbiggrin: .

I liked Power Armour, though you're right - there's little use for them except as a stopgap to produce while your scientists are working on the next set.

I also love MCing a quarter of the Cyberdisc next to a bunch of aliens, having it burn all of its AP to kill what it can, then MCing the next quarter to keep going. The explosion took out what was left. It was also great to use if I needed to get through a wall and didn't have any missiles.

I still can't believe they put the Lightning in, and had the audacity to clone it in TFTD. I only ever used one Firestorm anyway, for the big ships with range, or have an Interceptor on standby with dual Fusion Ball Launchers. It was really the only way I could keep my craft alive.

Winterwind

2007-11-26, 04:51 PM

They're a decent backup, take up less room than Avalanches and cheaper to boot. Dunno, I guess I never really felt like going thru the trouble of selling them and buying a new Avalanche launcher a missles. Especially when if you double up on Avalanches they become fire linked and you go thru missles twice as fast.I tend to get enough Avalanche launchers to equip all my Interceptors with dual Avalanches; you are right that you may fire a missile more than necessary once in a while, but on the other hand, this way you have enough firepower so that if, by chance, a larger UFO should show up early before you get a Plasma Cannon, you can still shoot it down. If all 6 Avalanche missiles connect, nigh every UFO will crash.
Also, this way you have only one kind of ammo to care about.
Of course, often enough, the initial missile shipment might well be enough to carry you through the game until you get better armament anyway...

I use a single one and I only use it if the opportunity presents itself pretty much exclusively against Sectoids and Floaters. But I try to capture live aliens right from the start.Good idea - but does it come up often enough that an unsuspecting alien (it would have to be facing away from you, basically, lest it might react) is close enough to the one single soldier wielding such a stick?

Cheaper and take less time and material to build. I don't find the armour difference to be that great, it's only about ten points.The armour difference is a nice bonus, but it's the tactical advantage of flight which makes Flight Armour so vastly superior. I believe the OP's picture is a far better demonstration of why than any words could ever be. :smallbiggrin:

I built one for fun once, but that's the only reason I can think of to build it. You forgot that it has less carrying capacity than a Skyranger as well.Same here, and, yeah, forgot about the part with the Skyranger. If I remember correctly, it can't even transport tanks, right? *too lazy to look it up :smallredface: *

Interestingly, though, everything is inferior to the Avenger in every regard - including the huge Battleships. Kinda funny, if you consider how much smaller an Avenger is.
X-Com technology sure is bad-ass, isn't it? :smallbiggrin:

Most effective way of killing the freaking things. Try to move and watch as it shoots itself in the head several times. Really fun with Cyberdiscs in a crowded area.Indeed. :smallbiggrin:

I liked Power Armour, though you're right - there's little use for them except as a stopgap to produce while your scientists are working on the next set.Yeah, I tend to do that, too, and to ship them off to garrisons as soon as they become obsolete (which is very, very soon usually).

Though I admit I don't like the look of Power Armour/Flight Armour, especially compared to the look of Personal Armour. This goes as far as that I have, sometimes, deliberately delayed the research of the better armours, so that I would keep using Personal Armour longer. :smallbiggrin:

I also love MCing a quarter of the Cyberdisc next to a bunch of aliens, having it burn all of its AP to kill what it can, then MCing the next quarter to keep going. The explosion took out what was left. It was also great to use if I needed to get through a wall and didn't have any missiles.If you MC a new quarter, that quarter has time points of its own?
Huh, should have guessed as much, I believe I never tried that. Cool. :smallbiggrin:
And yeah, I used them to take out walls, too.

I still can't believe they put the Lightning in, and had the audacity to clone it in TFTD. I only ever used one Firestorm anyway, for the big ships with range, or have an Interceptor on standby with dual Fusion Ball Launchers. It was really the only way I could keep my craft alive.What they should have done, in my humble opinion, would have been to make the Firestorm more resiliant than the Avenger (or given it a third weapon slot), and the Lightning significantly faster than both the Firestorm and the Avenger. This way, each craft would have had its own niche. As matters are, there is little reason why one would build anything but Avengers (since they can investigate the crash sites of the UFOs they shoot down, they even save Elerium as compared to using Firestorms).

Tekraen

2007-11-26, 04:55 PM

See, that would've been awesome.

And yeah, the Cyberdiscs all had their own AP. If it was the only thing around and I couldn't kill itself with one, I'd switch to a new section and keep firing.

Triaxx

2007-11-26, 09:21 PM

*raises hand* Which X-Com is this you're talking about? The only one I've played, despite repeated efforts to put my hands on the others, is Interceptor.

NEO|Phyte

2007-11-26, 10:30 PM

Har, despite the best efforts (and many blaster bombs :smallmad: ) of the aliens, I have stopped their assaults on Earth... for now.

Truwar

2007-11-27, 01:04 AM

Where CAN I get a copy of X-Com that will run on new computer? The last time I played it I used 3.5" disks to install it...

NEO|Phyte

2007-11-27, 01:07 AM

Both X-Com games that can be found at Abandonia seem to run fine on XP, on my box, anyway.

Fuzzy_Juan

2007-11-27, 02:17 AM

i might download x-com at some point when I have more time...it was such a fun game, but I always wound up being invaded by aliens at my bases and getting thrashed at home...a fun game though.

Driderman

2007-11-27, 03:08 AM

It can be downloaded freeware, from Abandonia among others. You'll probably want to use Dosbox to run it

Winterwind

2007-11-27, 03:40 AM

*raises hand* Which X-Com is this you're talking about? The only one I've played, despite repeated efforts to put my hands on the others, is Interceptor.All discussion so far was about UFO: Enemy Unknown, known in the US as X-Com: UFO Defense.

The only ones I have played were this one, and its immediate sequel, X-Com: Terror from the Deep.

Where CAN I get a copy of X-Com that will run on new computer? The last time I played it I used 3.5" disks to install it...After others have already stated the place, all that remains for me is to post a direct link (http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/38/UFO+-+Enemy+Unknown.html) for completeness' sake.

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-27, 09:21 AM

I tend to get enough Avalanche launchers to equip all my Interceptors with dual Avalanches; you are right that you may fire a missile more than necessary once in a while, but on the other hand, this way you have enough firepower so that if, by chance, a larger UFO should show up early before you get a Plasma Cannon, you can still shoot it down. If all 6 Avalanche missiles connect, nigh every UFO will crash.
Also, this way you have only one kind of ammo to care about.
Of course, often enough, the initial missile shipment might well be enough to carry you through the game until you get better armament anyway...

Seems like a "flavor to taste" thing to me. I usually don't even attempt intercepting Larges before I have plasma cannons. I'd rather just follow them and hit them on the ground.

Good idea - but does it come up often enough that an unsuspecting alien (it would have to be facing away from you, basically, lest it might react) is close enough to the one single soldier wielding such a stick?

Varies from game to game. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. It's strictly a "just in case" thing.

The armour difference is a nice bonus, but it's the tactical advantage of flight which makes Flight Armour so vastly superior. I believe the OP's picture is a far better demonstration of why than any words could ever be. :smallbiggrin:

Indeed.

Same here, and, yeah, forgot about the part with the Skyranger. If I remember correctly, it can't even transport tanks, right? *too lazy to look it up :smallredface: *

Nope, no tanks either. Troops exit thru a ladder in the floor. It makes for an okay sniping platform once you have flying suits, but that's about it.

Yeah, I tend to do that, too, and to ship them off to garrisons as soon as they become obsolete (which is very, very soon usually).

Attrition starts to become a problem about the time flying suits come around for me. It's just easier to build both at two different bases so I always have at least one suit of armour for new recruits.

Though I admit I don't like the look of Power Armour/Flight Armour, especially compared to the look of Personal Armour. This goes as far as that I have, sometimes, deliberately delayed the research of the better armours, so that I would keep using Personal Armour longer. :smallbiggrin:

No argument here. The power armour is fugly. Personal armour is the standard for my radar outpost garrisons.

Matthew

2007-11-27, 09:42 AM

Love X-Com, finished them all (I think, UFO, Terror from the Deep, Apocolypse and the Space combat one).

Do you guys know about UFO (http://ufo2000.sourceforge.net/), though? My mates and I have had a blast playing X-Com battles over the internet, I thoroughly recommend it (and it's free, so how can you fault it?!)

Archonic Energy

2007-11-27, 10:22 AM

An experience I made in my first game: Do not, repeat, do not put your Blaster Rocket Launcher on the psionically weakest member of the team. :smallbiggrin:

ahh that brings back memories... :smalleek:

also note blaster bombs are not a weapon of choice for more than 1/4 of your team... there tends to be little of the landscape remaining after a good blaster bomb strike!

Tekraen

2007-11-27, 10:36 AM

I was disappointed with Apocalypse, though being able to equip a "hunter-killer" team of two agents with the laser sniper rifles, setting them up at the entrance, and letting the realtime run the aliens right into my firing line was nice. Raiding their spacecraft manufacturing facility to stop the attacks was great, too.

SMEE

2007-11-27, 11:04 AM

What they should have done, in my humble opinion, would have been to make the Firestorm more resiliant than the Avenger (or given it a third weapon slot), and the Lightning significantly faster than both the Firestorm and the Avenger. This way, each craft would have had its own niche. As matters are, there is little reason why one would build anything but Avengers (since they can investigate the crash sites of the UFOs they shoot down, they even save Elerium as compared to using Firestorms).

That's possible to do. All I need to do is to take a look back at the exe file and hack it once again. It has been quite sometime since I did it though.

I'll look on it tonight and hopefully I'll post the adress offset to change them in both dos and windows X-COM executables. :smallsmile:
I can post the offsets to ship weapons data as well. That would make possible to increase the laser cannon range.

I had so much fun playing X-Com during my teenagerhood. And messing with it's files was too fun as well. :smallsmile:

kkortekaas

2007-11-27, 11:15 AM

I wasted many a night with the original...

I vaguely remember using rookies as bait for my more experienced troopers, pushing the rookies out like sheep to soak up enemy fire.

I also had a brief fliteration with a D20 modern conversion but it never went anywhere. Anyone care to help me develop this? it'd be pretty hot.

Artanis

2007-11-27, 11:20 AM

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4196/1184911889236yb1.jpg
So as to stop the derailment of the greatest game of all time thread, I figured that we could start up an XCom thread.

After trying (and failing) the final mission in my first successful game, I decided to take what I had learned and start anew. A handy combination of luck and more luck got me a captured navigator and a psionic alien in the first month, so as far as catching crafts goes, I've been sitting pretty. By the third month I had hyperwave radar thingies everywhere but south africa and the poles, so I went around popping ships, visiting the wrecks I figured would be worth looting. The first spot of bother came when a PAIR of Sectiod battleships visited Australasia on infiltration missions. (Side note: I hate sectiods (and Ethereals), because they are somehow able to target people they do not have line of sight to with their mind powers, and they always seem to know who is psionically weak) As I lacked the firepower to be able to shoot them down at the time, I waited for one to land and got my team there stat. Mission successful, but they didn't get home and refueled in time to catch the other one. At the end of the month, Australia had signed a pact, and stopped funding. A month or so later, the Snakemen sent a single battleship to infiltrate North Africa. Intercepted when they landed, mission success, but at the end of the month, Nigeria had signed a pact and was out. Around the same time, alien bases started cropping up, despite me shooting down any alien base UFOs that showed up. This has led to me pondering whether alien missions can still succeed if you shoot down a craft but do not loot the wreckage, and similarly, if alien missions can succeed simply by landing, even if you take out the landed ship.
I don't think the aliens' mission itself will succeed, depending on the mission (AFAIK you have to shoot down all the relevant ships to stop an infiltration), and you'll get points for the shoot-down. But taking on the wreckage will get you even more points, and the aliens may or may not get points for getting their UFO back if you take too long.

Currently sitting in early December, passing the time until I have enough verified 90+ Psionic Strength soldiers to have a nice solid primary team to start trashing bases with.
This is only necessary for Sectoid and Ethereal bases. If you're taking on a Muton, Floater, or Snakeman base, the only guys you need with high Psi Strength are the ones you give Psi Amps.

Those that don't qualify are assigned to my secondary team, which is used for clearing up wrecks that I don't want to waste Elerium sending the Avenger too. The truly hopeless soldiers (under 30 Psionic Strength) are simply canned. My standard gear loadout is Flight Suit, Laser Rifle, Medikit. If I want survivors, a pair of soldiers will have a Small Launcher and 8 spare Stun Bombs.
Laser Rifles are good (the second-best gun in the game), but there's a lot of enemies that they have a hard time against which Heavy Plasma will burn to ashes in one or two shots. Thus, I like to use Heavy Plasma as my "standard" weapon. However, for this exact reason, I also keep a stash of Laser Rifles at base and on the Skyranger/Avenger for taking on Ethereal and Sectoid fights, as both of those are relatively easy to kill, and your soldiers' tendency to turn around and shoot their buddies isn't that big a deal when the blasts just bounce off their armor.

Also, Heavy Plasma allows you to research Plasma Cannons, which (IMO) are the best craft weapon in the game.

The other Plasma weapons just kinda suck.

If/when I incorporate psionics into my teams, they'll have Laser Pistols and Psi Amps. If I decide I have enough spare Elerium to start using it, Alien Grenades could become standard-issue as well.
I never really got the hang of Grenades, alien or otherwise...if I wanted something blown up, Blaster Bombs or just energy guns handled it just fine, and Small Launchers are great for Area-effect attacks.

So, how much am I doing wrong? Are plasma weapons worth having to bother with ammo and having at least one hostile critter that is specifically resistant to it? Am I a fool for having never thrown a grenade (or used ANY explosives, for that matter)? Is flight and slightly better armor worth the extra Elerium for Flight Suits?
As I said, Heavy Plasma are VERY worth it, and the ammo is easy to come by without making it yourself.

I never bothered with Grenades (or rocket launchers, for that matter), but Small Launchers are great, and Blaster Launchers can be HUGE life-savers.

Eventually, yes, it's worth it, but it's not such a big deal that you need to go straight for it. You probably have better things to do with your workshops, and so you can build suits for your most important guys in batches...four or five here, four or five there, and soon enough everybody will be flying.

Why would I not have rifles on my Psions? Because you lose accuracy shooting a two-handed weapon in one hand, and although I haven't actually used Psions yet, I imagine they don't need to worry about hitting with their mind rays. Plus it makes sense that a non-primary combatant would be less armed. I COULD simply not have the Amp out until I want to use it, but that takes precious Time Units.

For the medkits, giving everyone one is convenient when you aren't using your belt for anything else. Its not exactly like they cost anything major to make anyway.

Hmm, I'll probably do some partial switches to Plasma, add some variance to my loadouts. Can plasma rifles 1shot Mutons? That'd be a major selling point, those green bastards can take multiple laser blasts.
I put Laser Rifles on my Psi-Amp guys "just in case" (rifle in one hand, Amp in the other), but the rifles pretty much never get used. If your Psi-guys are shooting, something's already gone horribly wrong. Can't hurt though.

I go with Medkits for almost everybody. My Blaster Launcher guy is strapped enough for ammo, so he doesn't carry one, and my Small Launcher guys may have it in their backpack, but for everybody else, there isn't anything better you can do with those long belt slots.

Plasma Rifles suck. Seriously. Laser Rifles are actually better at killing things! Heavy Plasma can 1-shot a Muton - those bastards are tough enough to survive a direct hit sometimes - but if you aren't using Heavy Plasma, stick with Laser Rifles.

Actually, I meant that more in the sense of the comfort of no longer having to care about buying new Avalanche missiles (and storage space, but if you sell everything not needed that shouldn't become much of an issue). But then, I often get the Plasma Cannon before the Laser one anyway, making it redundant.

Say - is there any point I have missed in
- Stingray missiles (why would one ever use those instead of Avalanches?)
- Stun sticks (first, who would go into melee with an alien, and second, by the time you have any reason to try to capture aliens, you have Small Launchers anyway)
- Power Armour (unlike Personal armour, these require Elerium - but they are strictly inferior to Flight Armour, which you can have very shortly after them, so why would one build these?)
- the Lightning craft (inferior to the Firestorm in combat ability, inferior to the Avenger in every regard)
Stingray Missiles: You start with some Stingray Launchers. No point wasting money replacing them when you're going to swap out the replacements for Plasma Cannons anyways.

Stun Rods: Sometimes, there's an alien worth capturing early on, like a Navigator or a Sectoid Leader, or just an alien that's panicked and dropped its gun. Not worth using as a primary weapon, but it's worthwhile to have your troops carry one in their backpack just in case such a situation comes up

Power Armor: Flight Suits aren't that much better in protection, and I never found flight to be such an advantage that it's worth taking over, say, Psionics or Blaster Bombs. So you might as well make some Power Suits until you get around to researching Flight Suits.

Lightning: Yup, it sucks. Can't even carry tanks on the rare occasions that you want to actually do so. I'm not too terribly fond of Firestorms either though...Plasma Cannons make plain ol' Interceptors sufficient for anything short of a Battleship, and it's better just to land and take those intact anyways.

Triaxx

2007-11-27, 11:30 AM

Interceptor is probably one of the best space combat games I've ever played. A bit more exciting than turn-based, while still terribly fun.

Archonic Energy

2007-11-27, 11:42 AM

Interceptor is probably one of the best space combat games I've ever played.

sorry, but i think you mis-posted. this isn't the "Unpopular Gaming Opinions" thread.
:smalltongue:

X-Com:I was OK but the space combat side didn't work as well as i hoped it would.

for a truly great combat game try "X 3: the return"
tie it up with a Saitek X52 Pro joystick & throttle and you're away!

/space combat

give me 30 crates of Toxin 3 and some Diablo Grenades... i'll teach the cult to mess with me!

Miklus

2007-11-27, 01:40 PM

I use Heavy plasma for all my soldiers. They can shoot through walls, very handy! You can make your own doors that way. That gives a real tactical advantage. Also, I use grenades to clear out the scenery. There might be a few civilian casulalties, but hey what can you do...

Grenades are very importaint in the early game. It's just about the only way to kill an alien without getting your head blown off early on. A terror misson at night is true horror without flares! Pick them up again and throw them ahead.

I don't use tanks, too expensive. You can carry four soldiers instead...and they get payed monthly, so no extra expense if they buy the ticket...:smallamused: I give everybody medikits, though.

Don't get too attached to the troops. $¤#" happens. But if a soldier is brave (50-60) and makes three kills, (s)he gets transfered to garrison duty. I keep these guys around until I can see if they have psionics too.

I name my soldiers "Agent #" where # is a number. If they are brave, they get a "X" added to their names. Brave + three kills gets them "XX". If they are psycic too, they get "XXX". :smallbiggrin: I try to keep these guys alive...let the others open doors ect.

Oh, and rule #1...DON'T...BUNCH...UP! EVER! :smallmad: Damn alien grenades!

Triaxx

2007-11-27, 03:00 PM

No, posted right. That game was great. As for X3... No. I won't go there.

Prustan

2007-11-28, 04:28 AM

Anyone else played Aftermath or Afterlight? Don't really like being on Mars in Afterlight, but the pathfinding and AI is quite a lot better. Plus, I still haven't reached the usual 'swarmed on all sides everything turning to crap' point of all previous XCom games. Still haven't used a spacesuit repair kit, or managed to have a robot accompany the team.
As for Aftermath, I played that until the aliens got launchers. Once that happens, you're screwed. They see further than you, seem to be more accurate, and, unless you specifically tell each team member where to go, they WILL automatically end up in a nice little bunch for the next launcher round to kill.

Badgerish

2007-11-28, 05:38 AM

I loved Xcom: enemy unknown and lost far, far too much time to it when i was younger.

One good thing i remember about laser cannons (the ship-weapons), is that they have a great cost-to-profit ratio and don't use anything rare to make, thus making a decent cash-cow when you don't have anything important to build.

Xcom: Apocalypse was also pretty good, although buggy (you can take apart and sell vehicles for more that it costs to buy them and you can 'raid' friendly organisations with stun weapons and the organisation won't care :P, the real-time option was open to a lot of exploiting)

The ship-to-ship combat was also brilliant to watch, although i cringed with each missed shot as i would have to pay for the repairs. The setting was great and involving.

As for conversions to RPGs, I've worked out stats for some XCOM:1 weapons, aliens and psi-powers in Spycraft 2.0 (which is nice easy to build up NPCs in). It does lead on to making most of the aliens 'standard characters' (unnamed mooks of varying power) and building up some to be fully fleshed out and intelligent 'special characters' (named and fleshed out NPCs), but personally i like they way that works.

Archonic Energy

2007-11-28, 06:42 AM

Gundato

2007-11-28, 06:54 AM

The Afters were okay, but they felt rather over-simplified.

Plus What the hell is up with the canon ending of each game being "We lost, you suck. Try again"?

Personally, I think UFO: Extraterrestrials (with the right mod) is the best successor.

Archonic Energy

2007-11-28, 06:57 AM

Personally, I think UFO: Extraterrestrials (with the right mod) is the best successor.

WHAT!!!!

did i miss one?

*google search*

Gundato

2007-11-28, 08:28 AM

I actually almost missed it as well. From what I understand, it came out around the same time as Afterlight, so people mixed those up. And with Afterlight's "questionable design choices" it resulted in both being badmouthed, or ET being viewed as an Afterlight ripoff.

Just make sure you look through the various mods out there. It is a great game on its own, but it is considerably better with a few research tree modifications.

Ashtar

2007-11-28, 10:50 AM

All this talk of X-Com made me download it again.

And there was I thinking I had kicked my video game addiction...

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-28, 11:04 AM

All this talk of X-Com made me download it again.

And there was I thinking I had kicked my video game addiction...

One of us, one of us, one of us...

Archonic Energy

2007-11-28, 11:29 AM

One of us, one of us, one of us...

Cream for Blood, Cream for Blood....

ok i watch too much Simpsons

Matthew

2007-11-28, 11:32 AM

We should get a UFO multiplayer league going here or something. So much love for X-Com.

Cubey

2007-11-28, 02:25 PM

Some technical details:

Ships don't fly again if they get shot down. If it crashlands, it's as good as dead. You don't even have to capture it - no negative points or other consequences for letting that yellow cross disappear on its own. Of course, if it really bugs you, just wait for interception until the enemy ship is above water. Aliens can't swim.

Infiltration missions are a pain. If that Very Large battleship lands, the mission is a success and you lose a funding country - even if you raid it after it lands or shoot it down after! You can prevent the battleship from spawning if you shoot down all (or most) mission ships before.

Alien Bases spawn on their own near infiltrated countries even without ships flying on base construction missions. Also, the more bases are on the map, the more of them appear. It's a big problem, especially in the late game on higher difficulty levels, because each base sucks your points away each day it exists.

I used Stun Rods for UFO assaults, especially on smaller ones (Like the Large Scout). If the enemy made the mistake of not turning towards the door during their turn, they get zapped as soon as my men get in - another specimen to the Alien Containment!

Lightning is useless. Avenger sips a lot of Elerium - that stuff is rare! I used Skyrangers for transport until very late in game. Of course, Firestorms replaced Interceptors very fast, because Interceptors are made of cardboard and can't down even a Medium Ufo unless they team up on it.

Grenades are powerful, but don't use them if you can help it. Your characters get stat increases for successful kills, and for some reason grenade kills do NOT count! If you want good soldiers, blast at the enemy.

Laser weapons are decent, but replace them with Heavy Plasma as soon as possible, doesn't matter if it consumes elerium or not - you will find enough clips on enemy corpses. Of course, Laser Rifle is the best weapon on Sectopods and Ethereals (Heavy Laser is too inaccurate and shoots slowly).

Flying Suit is superior to Power Suit, but its Elerium cost is very substantial. I tend not to make any additional Power Suits after researching Flying Suit, but I manufacture so many of them in the meantime that I use them up to the end. If no armor is a t-shirt, then Personal Armor is a cardboard breastplate. There is a good reason why this doesn't require Elerium to make. Still better than nothing.

I like tanks, but only because they are cool. 4 soldiers are a superior fighting force to any 1 tank, and cheaper too.

Every soldier should carry a medikit, maybe excluding the Rocket Launcher/Blaster Launcher guy who carries a lot of heavy stuff anyway.

I am a huge X-com freak, having played the game since my childhood. It probably twisted my psyche because... hell, the game is scary even today!

Lizard

2007-11-28, 02:44 PM

Some technical details:
I am a huge X-com freak, having played the game since my childhood. It probably twisted my psyche because... hell, the game is scary even today!

Snakeman Terror mission. At night. When the best technology you have are Laser Rifles and Personal armor....
Yea, I think this game easily qualifies under "scary":smallsmile:

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-28, 02:48 PM

Snakeman Terror mission. At night. When the best technology you have are Laser Rifles and Personal armor....
Yea, I think this game easily qualifies under "scary":smallsmile:

Don't forget the music...

I remember how jumpy I used to get after playing the game for an hour or so just because of the music.

Artanis

2007-11-28, 03:54 PM

Of course, Firestorms replaced Interceptors very fast, because Interceptors are made of cardboard and can't down even a Medium Ufo unless they team up on it.
This is actually why I say the Plasma Cannons are the best fighter weapon in the game. If you set the fighter to "cautious attack", the Plasma Cannon will outrange every single UFO that isn't a Battleship. So an Interceptor can fly up and plink away with total impunity against almost anything. And unlike Fusion Ball Launchers (which have the same range as a Battleship, letting the fighter get blasted up anyways), they don't use up Elerium with every shot.

Laser weapons are decent, but replace them with Heavy Plasma as soon as possible, doesn't matter if it consumes elerium or not - you will find enough clips on enemy corpses. Of course, Laser Rifle is the best weapon on Sectopods and Ethereals (Heavy Laser is too inaccurate and shoots slowly).
Agreed. As an elaboration, before you account for resistances and other factors, the Heavy Plasma is by far the most effective non-explosive weapon in the game. The Laser Rifle is a distant but respectable second. Third place (which I think was the Plasma Rifle) is so far behind the Laser Rifle that it might as well not exist.

I like tanks, but only because they are cool. 4 soldiers are a superior fighting force to any 1 tank, and cheaper too.
Yeah, tanks aren't that good. The best use I've found for them is as the bulk of garrisons at secondary bases, since the rookies there will be untrained and generally armed with second-rate hand-me-downs if they're lucky :smallfrown:

Cubey

2007-11-28, 08:53 PM

Of course, tanks have their advantages too:

-Tough. A starting tank can take on a full auto-fire from a Plasma Rifle and suffer no damage, if you're lucky. Of course, with bad damage rolls it gets destroyed after one shot, but its chances to survive are much bigger than those of a t-shirted rookie.
-Instant repairs after combat. Tanks don't go to a hospital.
-Immune to psionics.
-They never panic.
-Borderline example: they "only" get destroyed if attacked by a Chryssalid. Every X-Com player knows that the alternative is much more terrifying.

Triaxx

2007-11-28, 09:25 PM

Well rats. I can 'install' it, but when I try and attack a landed UFO, the game crashes. On XP and 98.

Winterwind

2007-11-28, 09:37 PM

Strange - in sheer disbelief I would have been so wrong about an X-Com related fact (and considering Cristo Meyers was of the same opinion) I tried whether a crashed UFO can start flying again today, by shooting one down rather close to my base and then having at least two vessels patrol the skies in its vicinity 24/7. Cubey is right, the crashing site simply vanishes, and the UFO does not reappear. No idea how I arrived at my previous belief then; in fact, I still seem to distinctly remember how crashed UFOs started flying again. Well, sorry for a any misinformation I might have caused.

As for tanks, I found they are rather nice to have around if you are required to check some dangerous corners where an alien might be hiding and just waiting for you to come around and snipe you with a reaction shot. A tank stands much better chances at surviving this than a mere mortal.

Well rats. I can 'install' it, but when I try and attack a landed UFO, the game crashes. On XP and 98.I used to have the same problem. Try running it in DosBox, that solved it smoothly for me.
Or try downloading the Windows-compatible version from Abandonia.

Driderman

2007-11-28, 10:29 PM

Even with the windows-compatible version you may experience difficulties, accelerated time being one of them. Dosbox has been my best bet for running the games problem-free

Sage of Laputa

2007-11-29, 12:12 AM

When you slowly sneak up to the door of the landed UFO, creep up to the sides, prepare to rush in, and let the aliens take their turn... It will all go to heck. The number of times I've had aliens open the door, plug my guy three times in the face and scurry back inside is enough to make me play until he is avenged. (At least three more terror missions.) When you are prowling the cornfields, and you see the first sectoid in the field... This game is probably the best I have ever played.

If only I could figure out DosBox to make it run on my computer. Darn being away at college...

Cubey

2007-11-29, 12:32 AM

Typical scenario after you click on "end turn": noises of walking around, catch a glimpse of an alien only for a second. Plasma blasts - one may even hit one of your soldiers, which probably kills him. More walking noises. Sounds of doors opening and closing. If it's a terror mission, insert 1-2 civilian screams per turn.

Just typing that freaked me out. And don't get me started on psionics, Mutons when you don't have plasma weapons yet, Octopods, any night missions, situations where the aliens barricaded themselves inside a house/barn, psionics again for good measure and the utter inhuman design of alien bases.

Notice that I didn't mention Chryssalids. Everyone knows about Chryssalids.

Ashtar

2007-11-29, 04:01 AM

I've just started a game again. I've managed four raiding missions to crashed / landed UFOs, got some elerium and even managed to capture a stunned navigator.
I absolutly hate terror missions, they take so long and my casualty rate is usually quite high during those. Luckily, in this game, I had saved just before the terror mission (Novosibirsk) appeared and was able to scramble my two interceptors, detect the UFO and shoot it down! (It took 6 Avalanches and 12 Stringrays...)
I'm debating now about going to see the spoils of that crash or not. It's early february so I don't have much researched yet.

Prustan

2007-11-29, 05:22 AM

yes the new "UFO" games are good too they keep just enough feel to them to make me miss the originals

i HAVE Afterlight. but i haven't PLAYED Afterlight... should probably work on that!

PS: don't forget Aftershock

Don't have Aftershock. Thought about getting the Afters Collection, but couldn't afford it at the time, then it was gone. Shame, the extra stuff looked quite interesting.

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-29, 08:43 AM

Well rats. I can 'install' it, but when I try and attack a landed UFO, the game crashes. On XP and 98.

There's a patch out there that will allow X-Com to run on XP. I'll see if I can find it sometime (when I'm not at work).

Also, there seems to be a random crash bug in the game no matter what you do. I've had it spontaneously exit the game when I make my first move several time.

Strange - in sheer disbelief I would have been so wrong about an X-Com related fact (and considering Cristo Meyers was of the same opinion) I tried whether a crashed UFO can start flying again today, by shooting one down rather close to my base and then having at least two vessels patrol the skies in its vicinity 24/7. Cubey is right, the crashing site simply vanishes, and the UFO does not reappear. No idea how I arrived at my previous belief then; in fact, I still seem to distinctly remember how crashed UFOs started flying again. Well, sorry for a any misinformation I might have caused.

Really? I could've sworn I used to see crashed UFO's up and flying again. I'll have to check that out myself.

kkortekaas

2007-11-29, 10:45 AM

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-29, 10:51 AM

That crash that your referring to seems to occur if you save your game while enroute to a crash site with a skyranger. It doesn't happen all the time, but 9 / 10 times that's the source of your issue.

Anyone have any super succesful base configs?
I was always a fan of the single access point to populated areas.
Have a string of hangers across the top or bottom, followed by an Access Point to the surface as the main choke point. It always seemed to work out well.

HH**HH
HH**HH
*LXXX*

*=empty
H=Hanger
L=Lift Tube
X=random building

Invaders usually come in thru the hangers and the lift tube. This way isolates them into two particular points on the map and saves you some trouble in hunting them down. Usually I'll put the living quarters in the "X" spots since that's where most of your troops will start.

kkortekaas

2007-11-29, 10:58 AM

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-29, 11:06 AM

I was always a fan of
HHHHHH
L*****
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

*=empty
H=Hanger
L=Lift Tube
X=random building

Mainly because by the time they start attacking your base, you've got blaster bombs....and hangers are a sinch to launch into.

I just never need that many hangers. My bases never have more than 2 (and most only have 1).

I usually get attacked by my third month, though I don't exactly rush the Blaster Launcher. I remember one game I had a base that was attacked about twice a month over the space of 4 months, but the defenses kept repelling the ship. By the time they got in, I was glad to actually have the chance to repel them for good. If the defenses get the invading ship, they just send another. I also remember thinking "how do they keep this organization a secret when alien battleships have been crash-landing into Chicago for the past 3 months?" :smallbiggrin:

Artanis

2007-11-29, 11:07 AM

I was always a fan of
HHHHHH
HHHHHH
L*****
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

*=empty
H=Hanger
L=Lift Tube
X=random building
I use this one as well. Rarely on my starting base since it starts out so screwed up, but on secondary bases I'll put this into effect. I'll use variants on outlying intercept bases that only need one or two hangars:

HHHH*X
HHHH*X
L***XX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

HH*XXX
HH*XXX
L*XXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

NEO|Phyte

2007-11-29, 11:08 AM

Man, Apocalypse is a whole new kettle of fish from UFO Defense. I've finally started a 'proper' run, after a dozen or so 'work out how everything works' runs.

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-29, 11:17 AM

Man, Apocalypse is a whole new kettle of fish from UFO Defense. I've finally started a 'proper' run, after a dozen or so 'work out how everything works' runs.

Never could get into Apocalypse, really. It just seemed like it was trying to hard. Then I found out that it was trying to hard and that it was cut short of its full potential because it was taking too long to develop and the company wanted a sequel to UFO Defense too quickly (hence, Terror from the Deep).

Terror from the Deep I could play for awhile, but eventually the ramped-up difficulty started to wear thin (bloody lobstermen...)

Triaxx

2007-11-29, 11:20 AM

We have to build these things for defense? :smallfurious: Blast.

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-29, 11:43 AM

We have to build these things for defense? :smallfurious: Blast.

Yup, occassionally aliens will pop in unexpected for tea and biscuits.

Not as hard as it sounds. Just remember that any items on your troop carrier won't be available to the troops in the base.

Edit: I just remembered the scariest moment in X-Com, by far. Seeing a Chryssalid for the first time, halfway across the map and then watching it walk all the way up to your troop and still have time to infest them and move on.

kkortekaas

2007-11-29, 11:52 AM

I was always a fan of
HHHHHH
L*****
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

*=empty
H=Hanger
L=Lift Tube
X=random building

Mainly because by the time they start attacking your base, you've got blaster bombs....and hangers are a sinch to launch into.

Sorry for the confusion, it was just to get the base spacing correct, my post was meant to show that hangers are 2 spaces wide.

Wolf53226

2007-11-29, 12:11 PM

Just wanted to post a reply thanking you all for starting a thread on this great game. I have been looking for a way to get it off my old 3.5 inch floppies and onto my computer for a while, and now I don't need to. I love this game!

And to add to the conversation, I usually stop using the Laser Rifles pretty early on, switching to the Plasma Rifles and Heavy Plasma, just simply for stopping power. Although based on this thread, I might rethink that strategy.

Grenades are great for when you know there is a alien around the corner, and you don't want to move your men to a firing position where they will get shot first. The biggest issue is if your men are taken over, those grenades do a lot of damage to your own team, or if you don't pay enough attention to your time units and you run out before you throw it. That only happens once before you learn to pay better attention.

Only ever used a tank to garrison a base, so I can't really say if they are that useful out in the field. I'm much rather have the men on my team that the tank takes the place of.

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-29, 12:14 PM

Grenades are great for when you know there is a alien around the corner, and you don't want to move your men to a firing position where they will get shot first. The biggest issue is if your men are taken over, those grenades do a lot of damage to your own team, or if you don't pay enough attention to your time units and you run out before you throw it. That only happens once before you learn to pay better attention.

Don't forget Chryssalid insurance. They're great for that.

Announcer guy: "Not sure if that Chrysallid is alive or dead? You need Chrysallid insurance! Just pull the pin and throw! Chrysallid insurance: for all your don't-let-me-get-raped-by-aliens needs!"

Cubey

2007-11-29, 12:24 PM

We have to build these things for defense? :smallfurious: Blast.

Yes, but don't hassle with Missile Defenses and (if you get them) Laser Defenses. They are too weak and therefore a waste of space.

Of course, if you want to risk fights inside your base, don't build anything and you'll get a lot of Elerium if you manage to repel the invaders. Me, I prefer the hassle-free solution of 4-5 Fusion Ball Defenses+Grav Shield (and Mind Shield just in case). Nothing gets through.

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-29, 12:25 PM

Yes, but don't hassle with Missile Defenses and (if you get them) Laser Defenses. They are too weak and therefore a waste of space.

Of course, if you want to risk fights inside your base, don't build anything and you'll get a lot of Elerium if you manage to repel the invaders. Me, I prefer the hassle-free solution of 4-5 Fusion Ball Defenses+Grav Shield (and Mind Shield just in case). Nothing gets through.

A Grav Shield with 1 each of the 4 defenses works as well. Bit cheaper too.

Archonic Energy

2007-11-30, 10:28 AM

Don't forget Chryssalid insurance. They're great for that.

Announcer guy: "Not sure if that Chrysallid is alive or dead? You need Chrysallid insurance! Just pull the pin and throw! Chrysallid insurance: for all your don't-let-me-get-raped-by-aliens needs!"

ok. you are now my mortal enemy... :smallmad:

i just choked on my tea... :smallbiggrin:

i'd love to play at the aliens on a terror mission...

i'd start with 2 Chryssalids and start by killing all unarmed guys...

Telok

2007-11-30, 10:53 AM

Don't forget Chryssalid insurance. They're great for that.

Announcer guy: "Not sure if that Chrysallid is alive or dead? You need Chrysallid insurance! Just pull the pin and throw! Chrysallid insurance: for all your don't-let-me-get-raped-by-aliens needs!"

I generally ended up using tanks and flying power armor to deal with chrysallids. But of course they were bloody murder until then. The first time one of those things ate four guys in one round I near crapped myself.

By the by... You've been sigged.

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-30, 10:58 AM

I generally ended up using tanks and flying power armor to deal with chrysallids. But of course they were bloody murder until then. The first time one of those things ate four guys in one round I near crapped myself.

By the by... You've been sigged.

I never even used tanks against them, not since I saw one actually tear a tank apart. My method is shoot it until it falls and, if it didn't do its little death howl, throw a grenade on the body, just to be sure.

And thank you.

ok. you are now my mortal enemy...

i just choked on my tea...

You're welcome :smallwink:

i'd love to play at the aliens on a terror mission...

i'd start with 2 Chryssalids and start by killing all unarmed guys...

What's even better is that if your troop has anything on his belt (like, oh, say a grenade), the infested human (and resulting Chryssalid) can still use it!

You think that they're scary now, wait until one lobs an alien grenade at you...

Archonic Energy

2007-11-30, 11:25 AM

You think that they're scary now, wait until one lobs an alien grenade at you...

Terror mission 1:

X-Com turn 1: all units move out of the skyranger & cover all directions
Alien turn 1: All Chryssalids charge X-com craft
X-Com turn 2: all units move back into the skyranger & blast off...
Alien Turn 2: [insert evil laugh]

Wolf53226

2007-11-30, 11:50 AM

Cristo Meyers

2007-11-30, 12:52 PM

Yeah, it's bad enough on those terror missions when during your first turn you never see any aliens, so you don't know how screwed you are yet...it's much worse when those darn Chryssalids charge you. You know exactly how screwed you are, and there is little you can do to fix the problem.

Even worse is when, because you've spent time shooting aliens just outside the ship, you can only deploy so far out. One Chryssalid shows up, infests a soldier, he turns around and infests another, and another...

That's when it's time to break out the Blaster Launcher.

Blaster Bombs: Because it's the only way to be sure.

Driderman

2007-11-30, 03:58 PM

Just started up a game of this the other day. It's now May in game and I've built my first Firestorm, my first 3 flying suits and haven't lost a teammember yet! I'm better at this than I remember, it seems. Of course I'm playing on lowest difficulty. I also have 3 bases, my main base is located on the southern tip of Greenland, offering radar coverage of most of Europe and North America, my second is located by the Black Sea and offers coverage of Russia, India and northern Africa, while the third base is located in south america, completing my radar coverage of the americas. Right now my secondary and third base are just a hangar with an Interceptor and some radars, but I am planning on building Firestorms for all three and investing in two more Skyrangers as well, shortening my reaction time and allowing me to clean up those crashed UFO's more quickly.

Well, well... Seems my radar coverage didn't extend to Nigeria. I did think there was a lot of activity in the area. Bastards just signed a pact with the alien menace and I've located my first alien base.

As for team setup, my team consists of 6-8 members depending on how many is wounded, they usually fan out from the Skyranger, making sure to take cover, kneel and ready for any appearing aliens. Since the start of March 1999 they've been using Plasma Rifles and Personal Armor, also being equipped with a stun rod. Basic and effective, I don't feel the need to use grenades and even though I've just started to encounter Chrysalids they haven't been a threat as of yet, seeing as my team is pretty effective at at auto-shotting them to death before they get too close.

It's a damn shame Terror From The Deep isn't abandonware, I'd like to play that as well when I finish this...

Cubey

2007-11-30, 06:58 PM

The easiest difficulty is... well, easy. It's still good for beginners - you'll make lots of mistakes to make up for the aliens' reduced aggressiveness.:smallbiggrin:

Remember to check alien activity graphs - it shows activity even if you didn't detect the UFOs themselves!

If Ufo: Enemy Unknown is X-Files, then Terror from the Deep is Call of Cthulhu. In terms of general feel, not quality. Because I am afraid that TftD is a wee bit unoriginal when compared to its predecessor. It's basically the same game, only with different aliens (Lovecraftian horrors, but related with the last game's aliens), landscapes (mostly underwater), technology (somewhat, but there is some new stuff - including melee weapons!)... and it's much, much harder. I still liked it a lot.

Ashtar

2007-11-30, 07:10 PM

The ship terror missions are absolutely horrible in Tftd. At least that's how I remember them.

I'm currently advancing on X-Com, building up to the final mission on Veteran. All in all, I've had to clear four alien bases on Earth. It's been a hard long fight uphill till now.

I'm developing as fast as possible the avenger, fending off repeated attacks against my bases. My biggest problem is that I don't have any high psi troops... which is a real annoyance.

Cubey

2007-11-30, 08:56 PM

Indeed, the ship terror missions were a total pain. The enemy is present in great numbers, walking around is very difficult and they have two phases. Under the deck is even deadlier, because there is so little space. And I have a very bad experience with a certain mission where I had to snipe a lone, unarmed lobsterman who was the only alien alive, but was in a place inaccessible by normal means due to a misplaced explosion.

Three fun facts acout Terror from the Deep:
-This game's Chryssalids, Tentaculats, can fly. Joy.
-Many missions (Ship terror sites, alien bases and the dreaded Alien Activity sites) have two phases now. The final mission has FOUR - without a working map or the ability to save in the last phase! Bring lots of ammo clips.
-Some weapons work only underwater.

Rutee

2007-11-30, 11:29 PM

I always hated this game.

I mean, I love it, but I'm a coward about scary things. My first few months of playing it were me basically home alone. At night, with the lights off, because I'm a moron. And it always reminds me of that now, even if I'm playing it while my roommates are around. So it scares the hell out of me 24/7 now :P

I mean, it's a great game that I've never gotten around to beating, it's just scary. Though I think I'm starting a new game in it now.. XD

BloodyAngel

2007-12-01, 10:54 AM

This blows. i can't seem to get the game to run on my computer. is there a trick to it? All I get is a black, graphic-less screen, and the intro music.

Fri

2007-12-01, 11:05 AM

Cubey

2007-12-01, 11:29 AM

I'm trying to play it now, just trying to get used with the interface now. Any tips for a REAL first-playing beginner?

Play on the lowest difficulty setting. Set your first base up in either Europe or Northern America. You start with basic stuff and a large base already, but it needs some patching up. Construct a large radar array, alien containment and probably more living quarters, you're going to need them. Buy enough avalanche launchers to arm your both interceptors (or an avalanche+stingray combo), recruit enough soldiers to have a full squad in your skyranger - 14 soldiers, or 10+a tank. Note whom from your soldiers has a highest strength score and give him a missile launcher (buy large rockets), equip others with rifles and grenades. Some other strong guys can get Heavy Cannons or Auto Cannons with appropriate ammo - some of both AP and HE, all have their uses. Remember that Auto Cannons are horribly inaccurate.
Pistols and smoke grenades are rather useless, you can sell them.
Remember that items take some time to arrive to your base, so don't panic if you don't get them instantly after ordering.
And it takes some time to rearm your interceptors too, so don't rearm both at the same time. First one and then another.
For the rest of your money, hire scientists. You'll need a lot of them, probably 100. They are, unfortunately, the biggest money drain in the game. Order them to research Medikits - they are lifesavers, literally.

When you find an enemy UFO, send an interceptor to shoot it down. First flying fights are easy, so just use any attack mode. If the ufo disappears, try to patrol around the area where you lost it from radar, there is a chance you'll see it again.

When you have a crash landing or if the UFO lands (turning from a red blip to a green one), send your Skyranger there - don't forget to equip it with soldiers and enough weapons beforehand! Funny, but you don't actually equip the soldiers until the mission starts, so you will have to take notes on who takes that Rocket Launcher and other heavy stuff.

Biggest hint for tactical missions - do not charge. Spread your guys around but let them cover each other. Watch out for field of view - this game has fog of war. Crouching down is a good idea, it is cheap in APs and makes you more accurate and a smaller target to hit. Your guys will probably die in one hit, so will the starting aliens, fortunately. If you see the enemy UFO, send a few soldiers to guard the entrance but do not enter it until you secure the perimeter.

And don't use exploding ammunition when you attack the UFO - it has precious components. Change ammo for heavy and auto cannon guys and let the rocketeer stay behind.

Fri

2007-12-01, 12:53 PM

ah yes.. I sent 8 soldiers on my first try on battle, ever. half of them dies rather dramatically for me. They're just rookies, trying to save the world, with high hopes in their hearts.

Suddenly, without warning, whoop! They die.

Penguinizer

2007-12-02, 07:53 AM

I am downloading the game. I'll tell you how badly I fail when I get the game working.

Winterwind

2007-12-02, 06:15 PM

Adding a few things to the list of advice Cubey mentioned before (with which I fully agree):

- You should also build more store rooms in the beginning, one will likely not cut it in the long run; in fact, you can easily run out of room by buying more missiles for your launchers alone.

- If you have some really good soldiers (with a high shooting accuracy, for instance), do not send them in first - aliens who didn't use up all their time units (which the aliens rarely do) can react to your movement and start shooting as soon as you come in sight. As harsh as it sounds, the less skilled rookies should go ahead and, if need be, sacrifice themselves, so that the more skilled and experienced veterans survive and can take the aliens out safely.

- If you can't hit an alien due to obstacles, or if you tried to hit it and missed, using up all your time units, and there is no other soldier with a line of fire left - use explosives. HE ammo can strike next to an alien, not hitting the alien itself, and still kill it, whereas grenades fly ballistically and hence don't need a straight line of fire. If you set the time trigger to 0 the grenades will explode the moment you end your turn, leaving the alien no chance to escape.

- I am very fond of using e-flares. Put one into the belt of each of your soldiers; if the mission is happening in the darkness of the night, it is wise to throw them around to lighten the area up. Half the time, after you throw an e-flare, you suddenly see an alien you didn't see before, and can take it out, instead of walking up to it without suspecting anything and getting shot. They are amongst the most useful equipment you have.

- The first things to research are Laser Weapons (up to Laser Rifles), Medipacks, Alien Alloys and Personal Armour. With these, you stand much, much better chances against the invasion than at the beginning of the game.

- Selling the Plasma weapons and the Mind Probes of the aliens is about the fastest way to make cash. Never, ever sell Elerium, you need it.

- Expand soon by building more bases, as soon as your budget allows it, so your radars cover a larger part of the world.

- If a nation defects to the aliens, chances are there is an alien base in it or its vicinity.

asqwasqw

2007-12-02, 11:43 PM

Ahh, X-com, what I would have to say is my favorite game... the memories.

Playing with only the knowledge of how to play guiding me on... I started with 8 soldiers, they all died my first mission... after the restart, and some advice, I got really better. I don't know why you hate the lightning, it prevents the hated enemy directly underneath the ship attack. Intercepters suck, they can't catch anything...

Oh, I remember my first mission with snakemen. Walked down, saw a snakeman, shot it, was like wtf is that?? Saw a couple more, they all went down with the help of my trusty heavy plasmas. Kept walking, just saw a bunch of civilians... I organize my guys into 3 squads and 2 supporting guys... I saw a strange alien, send a squad in to investigate, killed my entire squad... so of course I move in to investigate, see the zombies, shoot them, and out pops more! And then I day again... So I restarted that level, had my 2 support guys in flying suits (they were the only ones) Buzz around shooting stuff while the other guys hid inside my skyranger, everybody holding a primed gernade, literally 12 proxy gernades on the floor.

Cubey

2007-12-03, 12:38 AM

Here are my comments on alien types, courtesy of your truly. In case the less X-com-savvy people don't want to have their surprises ruined, I will use the spoiler tags.

Sectoids: probably the first aliens you'll find. These little Grays are the weakest soldiers in the game (that's not saying much, they will still destroy you if you're not careful), but they get really powerful later, when their leaders start using psionics. Their terror units are average, but if you don't have plasma weapons you're in big trouble. Oh, and they (Cyberdiscs, not Sectoids) explode when killed, fun.

Floaters: average soldiers, no psionic abilities. They can fly but they hardly make good strategic use of that ability. Reapers are a joke. Probably the weakest alien type.

Snakemen: I learnt to hate them most of all the types. Stat-wise they resemble Floaters, with slightly more health but no flying. Why the hate then? Every X-Com fanatic knows. One word: Chryssalids.

Mutons: best straightforward soldiers in the game. Accurate, tough (good luck if you don't have Heavy Plasma), good AP. No psionics, luckily. Their terror units suck too.

Ethereals: every single one of them is a psion. Good stats, very resistant to all but laser weapons (yes, even plasma). Sectopods share that laser weakness too, and good - they are almost unstoppable otherwise. These are probably the most dangerous type of the alien manace, and you should pray to meet them as late in the game as possible.

EDIT: More thoughts to share.
Your two biggest money drains will be scientists and flying machines. Unfortunately, you need both. To make money, sell unnecessary stuff - as it was mentioned above. Plasma weapons you won't need, mind probes (you won't need more than 1, and they sell for a lot of cash - no surprise, I bet it has many uses:smallamused: ). You can also manufacture and sell items - everything laser is a good bet, medikits too.

Personal Armor may offer very little protection, but it has one very big advantage. It looks friggin' COOL.

Winterwind

2007-12-03, 05:07 AM

Sectoids: probably the first aliens you'll find. These little Grays are the weakest soldiers in the game (that's not saying much, they will still destroy you if you're not careful), but they get really powerful later, when their leaders start using psionics. Their terror units are average, but if you don't have plasma weapons you're in big trouble. Oh, and they (Cyberdiscs, not Sectoids) explode when killed, fun.I agree with your assessment of the Sectoids, not so much with that of the Cyberdisc - I actually consider those to be the greatest threat altogether in the whole game (okay, except for aliens with Blaster Bomb Launchers :smalleek: ). The punishment they can take is completely random - sometimes, the first glancing hit will take them out, but often enough they withstand a whole salvo and retaliate. They have excellent reactions, shoot with tremendous precision, and wield terrifying firepower. And then there's the whole explosion thing...
What is there to rival the power of a Cyberdisc? None of the regular soldiers - Sectoids, Floaters, Snakemen, none measure up to it in combat prowess. The Mutons might come close, but even they don't surpass it (of course, there are much more of them). Sectopods are basically like Cyberdiscs, except they can't fly, don't explode, and they die immediately (if shot with the right weapons - but then, why wouldn't you use a Laser against a Sectopod anyway?). The other terror weapons don't come even close. The only other major challenge would be psions, and even against those countermeasures can be taken (since they tend to target always the same members of the crew).

Floaters: average soldiers, no psionic abilities. They can fly but they hardly make good strategic use of that ability. Reapers are a joke. Probably the weakest alien type.Agreed. Though in the early game, Reapers can be a danger due to their high speed. Not very much so, but still. Later on, Floaters and Reapers are quite certainly the weakest opponents you can face - no psions, melee terror units, and far less durable than Snakemen, not to mention Mutons.

Snakemen: I learnt to hate them most of all the types. Stat-wise they resemble Floaters, with slightly more health but no flying. Why the hate then? Every X-Com fanatic knows. One word: Chryssalids.In the early game, agreed, but in the later game, I was actually happy to see Snakemen - Snakemen mean there are no annoying psions, they are significantly weaker than Mutons, and Chryssalids are basically the most harmless alien whatsoever once you possess Flying Suits.

Mutons: best straightforward soldiers in the game. Accurate, tough (good luck if you don't have Heavy Plasma), good AP. No psionics, luckily. Their terror units suck too.The punishment Mutons can take is horrifying. Even worse, probably, is the fact that by the time they appear, the aliens will start using their better weaponry - including the devastating Blaster Bombs. Though I actually had a soldier (in a Flying Suit) who was struck directly by a Blaster Bomb - the walls of the UFO in which he was were torn apart by the explosion, the suit's armour value reduced to paper thin, but the soldier survived with only minor wounds. Luckiest guy on the planet. :smallbiggrin:
(it would have sucked to lose him, too, it was my Commander, with 12x Shooting Accuracy, high time units and excellent psionic abilities)
As for these terror units, those bean-shaped flying monsters whose name escapes me right now (a shame, I know... :smallredface: ) do possess a terrifying firepower, which kills anybody with a single hit usually. Fortunately, they hit maybe one time in ten. Silacoids, on the other hand, are basically smaller, slower, but more resilient versions of the Reapers, and hence similarly pathetic.

Ethereals: every single one of them is a psion. Good stats, very resistant to all but laser weapons (yes, even plasma). Sectopods share that laser weakness too, and good - they are almost unstoppable otherwise. These are probably the most dangerous type of the alien manace, and you should pray to meet them as late in the game as possible.If this "meet as late as possible" part referred to Ethereals, well, one could argue though that meeting them early will grant access to Psionic Training all the much sooner. If it referred to Sectopods, I don't really understand that notion, unless one would not have soldiers with Laser Rifles - Sectopods do have good stats, but they are probably the easiest to kill amongst all aliens (yes... maybe even easier than Sectoids, and that's telling something). The scientists are not kidding when they say Sectopods have a weakness to lasers.

EDIT: More thoughts to share.
Your two biggest money drains will be scientists and flying machines. Unfortunately, you need both. To make money, sell unnecessary stuff - as it was mentioned above. Plasma weapons you won't need, mind probes (you won't need more than 1, and they sell for a lot of cash - no surprise, I bet it has many uses:smallamused: ). You can also manufacture and sell items - everything laser is a good bet, medikits too.You can also manufacture Heavy Plasmas. So what if it eats up Alien Alloys, it's not like you can't manufacture that in vast quantities anyway if need be - and with every Heavy Plasma, you have a profit of 60,000 $ (production cost: 120,000, selling price: 180,000).

Personal Armor may offer very little protection, but it has one very big advantage. It looks friggin' COOL.Indeed. :smallbiggrin:

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-03, 09:46 AM

you might need the windows version. Or maybe somekind of patched version. Where did you get your copy? I got that problem at first, but I realized that I clicked on the wrong icon. Try to run it on compatibility mode?

X-com was popular around my place, on the same ground with the original doom. But I was too young to play both of them when they first appear. But I remember seeing a thick, cool looking guide for X-Com when I was younger.

I'm trying to play it now, just trying to get used with the interface now. Any tips for a REAL first-playing beginner?

Tips in no particular order:

1. First, set up on a large landmass, doubly so if it's a major funding nation (USA is a prime choice). Always build a long range radar. If you build in, say, the midwestern US, a long range radar will cover most of the US and Canada. Other base structures is pretty much to taste: I would go with another Living Quarters, one or more General Stores, and Alien Containment.

1a. Hire enough extra soldiers so that you have around 10-15 in the base at all times. Max out the number of scientists you can have in a base (50 per laboratory). Maxing out the number of enginneers is a good idea as well, though you'll rarely end up getting to use them all on a single project.

2. Research laser weapons IMMEDIATELY. The laser rifle is good enough to, literally, work as the standard issue weapon for the whole game (My usual outfit is 4 Heavy Plasma, 1 Stun Launcher, the rest laser rifles). Medpacs are only useful once you have armour and the motion sensor is a niche item.

2a. Begin production of laser weapons as soon as you can, even if all you have are pistols. They're more accurate than the rifle and don't need to reload.

3. In the beginning, after a successful mission, sell all but one of everything except: Alien Grenades (those this is to taste), Elerium, and Alien Alloys. The more of a pad you build in your bank account the better as probably by month 6 your funding won't be anywhere near enough. Once you can use the alien weapons this changes, of course.

3a. Later in the game, produce extra Heavy Plasmas for sale (just the weapon, no clip). They sell for over $100K apiece and are great for making up budget shortfalls.

4. Once you have laser rifles (and preferably personal armour), begin researching the plasma weapons. Why? Because once you've researched the weapon, you can pick up the dead alien's former weapon and use it against them. This eliminates the need to outfit everyone with weapons and clips.

5. By month 3 you should be planning (or better yet, building) another base. Either a fully operational base or a radar outpost. Use the same guidelines as your first base, just don't build it in the same country as the first. I recommend the opposite hemisphere (first base in the USA, build the next in Europe).

6. Advanced interceptors are overrated. The standard Interceptor with Plasma Cannons can shoot down everything but a Battleship (and nothing can take those down anyway).

7. Never, EVER, ignore a terrorize mission. It's the quickest way to lose a country's funding.

8. The first alien base that gets revealed to you is most likely not the first alien base, in fact, it's probably the 3rd or even 4th. Watch for large UFO's and see where they land. Alien bases are resupplied on a regular basis and the supply ships, once you get the hang of it, make for easy pickings

9. It seems counter-intuitive, but only ever do a single alien base mission in a month. Successfully completing an alien base will usually net you an Excellent for the month and a funding increase.

Repsonses in bold

Sectoids: probably the first aliens you'll find. These little Grays are the weakest soldiers in the game (that's not saying much, they will still destroy you if you're not careful), but they get really powerful later, when their leaders start using psionics. Their terror units are average, but if you don't have plasma weapons you're in big trouble. Oh, and they (Cyberdiscs, not Sectoids) explode when killed, fun.

Cyberdiscs are weak against lasers just like Sectopods are. Though plasma is infinitely preferable, a laser rifle can hold it's own.

Floaters: average soldiers, no psionic abilities. They can fly but they hardly make good strategic use of that ability. Reapers are a joke. Probably the weakest alien type.

Floaters are a bit tougher physically than Sectoids, so if you don't have some type of laser weapon you may have a bit of trouble. Incendiary ammo makes Reapers cry.

Snakemen: I learnt to hate them most of all the types. Stat-wise they resemble Floaters, with slightly more health but no flying. Why the hate then? Every X-Com fanatic knows. One word: Chryssalids.

Snakemen are more aggressive than floaters and tougher. You need laser weapons at least to fight them effectively. Chryssalids...*shudder*...if you see one, everybody shoots at it until it's dead. And I mean dead dead. If you didn't hear it give a death-yell when it went down, throw a grenade on its corpse, because it can (and will) get up and the most inappropriate time. (See aforementioned post re: Chrysallid Insurance)

Mutons: best straightforward soldiers in the game. Accurate, tough (good luck if you don't have Heavy Plasma), good AP. No psionics, luckily. Their terror units suck too.

The most aggressive AI in the game. They will actively hunt you out instead of skulking in halls and houses. They can be taken down with laser rifles, but it's really difficult. They can withstand a Heavy Plasma shot and still stand. A Battleship full of Mutons is a joke. Place four soldiers with Heavy Plasma in the corners of the elevator and shoot thru the floor. Can clean out most of the ship this way.

Ethereals: every single one of them is a psion. Good stats, very resistant to all but laser weapons (yes, even plasma). Sectopods share that laser weakness too, and good - they are almost unstoppable otherwise. These are probably the most dangerous type of the alien manace, and you should pray to meet them as late in the game as possible.

I've never known them to be particularly resistant to anything, I've seen them go down to laser pistols. You should only hope to see them as late as possible if you have Psionic technology thru the Sectoids.

Tekraen

2007-12-03, 10:08 AM

Now to figure out how to get DOSBox to work correctly on my Mac Powerbook...

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-03, 11:38 AM

Now to figure out how to get DOSBox to work correctly on my Mac Powerbook...

Heh, good luck...

I've been considering breaking out my X-Com CD as well, if only KoTOR and Empire at War weren't completely draining my time.

Well, that and planning out a new computer. You know you need one when it's a better option to buy a whole new system than buy the RAM upgrade (freakin' rdram...)

Badgerish

2007-12-03, 11:52 AM

I too have re-installed the game (windows version on winXP64). slight crashing issue when on missions :( but i respond by making lots of a saves. I might try restarting with DOSbox and a DOS version.

even so many years old, it got me playing until 3am. now that the sign of a classic game.

my best game so far has flying armor (just started production) and a Sectoid Leader in containment. Although i've just drawn a horrible, horrible terror mission. 1 cyberdisk right infront of the disembarking ramp, with two more withing 6 squares of the side of the ship.

Tekraen

2007-12-03, 12:04 PM

NEO|Phyte

2007-12-03, 12:12 PM

If this "meet as late as possible" part referred to Ethereals, well, one could argue though that meeting them early will grant access to Psionic Training all the much sooner. If it referred to Sectopods, I don't really understand that notion, unless one would not have soldiers with Laser Rifles - Sectopods do have good stats, but they are probably the easiest to kill amongst all aliens (yes... maybe even easier than Sectoids, and that's telling something). The scientists are not kidding when they say Sectopods have a weakness to lasers.

You do not HAVE to catch an Ethereal to get access to psionics, a Sectoid Leader works just fine. (Remember when I said I got the Hyperwave Decoder and Psionics lab by second month? 'Twas from a single Sectoid ship, where I nabbed the navigator and leader with some lucky shots, not having any stun bombs yet.)

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-03, 12:27 PM

You do not HAVE to catch an Ethereal to get access to psionics, a Sectoid Leader works just fine. (Remember when I said I got the Hyperwave Decoder and Psionics lab by second month? 'Twas from a single Sectoid ship, where I nabbed the navigator and leader with some lucky shots, not having any stun bombs yet.)

Exactly why I carry around a Stun Rod. Just in case I get an opportunity like this.

So far, in my years of playing this game, it's happened once...

...I just get a kick out of imagining the poor guy that gets handed a pistol and a cattle prod when everyone else has a high powered combat rifle. :smallbiggrin:

Those of us that are lucky nab a Sectoid Leader and get Psionic Labs that way. The rest of us, well...we never really liked Jim anyway.

Cubey

2007-12-03, 12:39 PM

Heavy Plasma sell for good cash, but they take 1000 engineerhours to complete. There is plenty of stuff that you produce much faster.

This (http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/199362/1825) gamefaqs article has a full table. Abridging it, the best items to create for money are:
Laser Cannon
Fusion Ball Launcher
(long gap here)
Tank/Laser Cannon
(another gap, but not as long)
Psi Amp (it takes elerium, so don't)
Motion Scanner
(somewhat smaller gap)
Medikit
Heavy Plasma
Laser Rifle

These numbers are prone to some fluctuations based on how many engineers and engineering bays you have, but the general idea doesn't change much.

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-03, 12:41 PM

So there is a use for the laser cannon besides having aliens point and laugh at you!

Cubey

2007-12-03, 12:46 PM

Penguinizer

2007-12-03, 12:56 PM

I wonder, should we have a large-ish GiantITP game. Using the UFO 2000 thingamajig on abandonia. Which is supposedly multi-player.

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-03, 01:10 PM

Ayup. Remember that most stuff that X-Com finds useless when dealing with aliens is highly useful for the civilian mafios... I mean, the governments. Laser weapons, laser tanks, mind probes, alien corpses for sushi production... you name it!

Gotta love those alien corpses: 20K a pop.

I wonder how many servings of Sectoid sashimi you get out of one body?

Cubey

2007-12-03, 01:14 PM

Gotta love those alien corpses: 20K a pop.

I wonder how many servings of Sectoid sashimi you get out of one body?

All you can eat!
And I bet a chryssalid meal would be EXTREMELY exciting. Especially if it comes back to life mid-consumption.

Now here's a question - that guy with a suitcase full of money, whom you see on Purchase and Sell screens: is that an X-Com employee making a purchase or some shady person whom you are selling stuff to? Because if it's the latter, then he totally looks like some mafia kingpin, which would explain my theory that X-Com sells its stuff on the black market. The novels agree on that too, but I never read them and they are non-canon (and from what I heard, a bit low on quality too).

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-03, 01:41 PM

All you can eat!
And I bet a chryssalid meal would be EXTREMELY exciting. Especially if it comes back to life mid-consumption.

Now here's a question - that guy with a suitcase full of money, whom you see on Purchase and Sell screens: is that an X-Com employee making a purchase or some shady person whom you are selling stuff to? Because if it's the latter, then he totally looks like some mafia kingpin, which would explain my theory that X-Com sells its stuff on the black market. The novels agree on that too, but I never read them and they are non-canon (and from what I heard, a bit low on quality too).

Now you've got me envisioning all kinds of products made from the alien corpses...

Come on, if you saw a pair of Snakeman skin boots, you know you'd buy it.

The novels are non-canon? First I've heard of that. *shrugs*

I always figured it was the black market or the individual governments making shady deals behind the backs of the other X-Com member nations.

Either way, as long as they give me my money.

Triaxx

2007-12-03, 02:56 PM

According to Interceptor, certain criminal organizations were getting their hands on equipment sold by X-Com. Turning up during piracy missions primarily.

Winterwind

2007-12-03, 05:57 PM

I always assumed it was a government employee, of the shadiest kind - but then, how could someone associated with the X-Com somehow not be shady? And we all know what became out of the nations of today in the XCom universe after the alien war in Terror from the Deep - I mean, names like "Euro-Syndicate", "Egyptian Cartell" or "Africa Corp" sure do sound as if that shady guy took over...

Cubey

2007-12-03, 08:22 PM

Not only that, but he's still in the purchase and sell screens. Seeing that Terror from the Deep takes place almost 50 years later, he got rich enough to buy himself either a lot of plastic operations or some kind of youth potion. Probably alien-based.

Winterwind

2007-12-03, 09:16 PM

Maybe he's selling the stuff back to the aliens, and getting nice gadgets like that youth serum in exchange? :smalleek:
That bastard!

Ghal Marak

2007-12-03, 09:28 PM

I want to definately try this game now that I've went through and read all the coments. What is the easiest/most recomended way to get it to work on XP? Also, where can I find it?

Winterwind

2007-12-03, 09:42 PM

You can download both a Windows and a DOS version of the game here (http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/38/UFO+-+Enemy+Unknown.html), on Abandonia.

If neither version works without complications for you, I'd suggest using the DOS version under DosBox (http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/).

Toxic Avenger

2007-12-04, 12:25 AM

Helgraf

2007-12-04, 01:30 AM

Standard Rig:
Skywhatchamacallit until the Avenger is available.
10 men, 1 tank

Tank: Typically the missile armed one (for the boom). When tech becomes better, hovertank w/ blasterbomb lets me open up an entrance into a UFO where it's convienient for me.

10 men
6 with "standard weapon" (depending on point in game, this is typically a laser rifle or a heavy plasma with laser pistol backup). 1 or 2 clips backup ammo.
2 Heavy Cannons (eventually replaced) - with HE rounds and one clip of Incendiary if on night mission. Setting the world on fire lights it up too...
- One of these becomes a Blaster Launcher eventually. The other typically gets a Small Launcher/Laser Rifle.
1 Autocannon (eventually replaced) - also with HE rounds.
1 Missile Launcher with 3 Large Rockets. - Eventually becomes a Blaster Launcher.

Everyone except Missile Launcher gets a Medpak
Everyone gets one smoke grenade, one regular (or alien) grenade, and one electroflare.
My strongest without an HC/AC/RL gets the Stun Rod for opportunity captures.
Psi weapon as appropriate to high PsiStr/PsiTraining unit.

Use leapfrog movement techniques to ensure whomever is in front has plenty of units providing cover fire. Kneel always. Use flares if night mission.

Always save enough time units to fire at least a snap shot. You don't cover as much ground this way, but you cover it a helluva lot more safely.

Some items on the map are explosive (like gas station tanks). Use this to your advantage - but what works for you works for them - so don't use gas stations for cover if you have any other choice.

Chrysalids are a nightmare until you have Flight Suits, but with these tactics, you will _typically_ have enough concentrated firepower and enough visual range to be able to drop them before they reach you - or at least with only one infected unit for your troubles.

_Don't_ shoot an infected zombie unless you have at least three more high-power rounds to drop the Chysalid that will emerge from its body. It takes a few turns for the 'zombie' to hatch on its own, and until it does, it's pretty much harmless. Use this time to either withdraw to a position of strength or to bring in more firepower to drop it, Chrysalid inside and all.

Research those corpses. Knowing what damage type the enemy is vulnerable to is a huge advantage. At least one critter is vulnerable to incendiary rounds and highly resistant to most everything else, for example. Early on, knowing this you can drop it with HC-I or AC-I ammo quickly - or you can waste lots of pistol/laser ammo on it and hope you get lucky.

As so many others have noted, Heavy Plasma becomes the alien firearm of choice soon enough that you never really have to worry about burning your own Elerium-115 in order to make more clips. Use theirs.

Electro-flares are your best friend in any Night Mission and very helpful when raiding Size Large+ UFOs and Bases.

Smoke grenades may seem counterproductive, but used carefully, they can severely hamper enemy accuracy - and make it far safer to cover a patch of open ground that would otherwise turn your team into the targets of a shooting gallery.

You can make your first base better suited to repelling alien advances.

Just dismantle the Living Quarters next to the Lift and the Upper Hanger, after you've built a new one in a more useful location. Dismantle also the Lower two hangers, and if desired, rebuild them next to the Upper Hanger. Leave the third row empty except for the pre-existing lift. Put all your structures in the fourth through sixth rows. It takes some time, but it makes the base design far more secure, very nearly as good as the bases you can fully design yourself.

Ghal Marak

2007-12-04, 07:36 AM

I had troubles with both of those. Both versions would crash when I started my first mission.

I tried The Underdogs (http://www.the-underdogs.info/game.php?gameid=4966) yesterday, and it worked for me just great! :smallbiggrin:

Same thing happened to me. I'll just go and try that Underdogs thing for myself then. :smallsmile:

Winterwind

2007-12-04, 07:46 AM

Did you try it with DosBox? I haven't encountered any game from the DOS age yet which did not work flawlessly under DosBox, and the X-Com version I am using is actually the same version which had been copied from computer to computer, starting with my 486 back then - and it works just as stable under DosBox as it did back then.

Toxic Avenger

2007-12-04, 10:18 AM

Cubey

2007-12-04, 04:07 PM

I never used incendiary ammo - I didn't find it good, and the flames, while dealing relatively little damage, had an annoying tendency to cook your soldiers just enough to send them to the hospital with X-degree burns (replace X with a number of your choice). Of course, I learnt that if you burn a zombie down, it won't spawn a Chryssalid - but it's too much hassle, I prefer to mow both of them down with plasma.

Flares I never used, but it's a definite mistake.
I always pack some AP ammo for my Heavy Cannon and Auto Cannon guys. That way, they won't be useless during attacks on small-but-crowded UFOs when you have to be really careful not to blow that power source up. Because it'd be a waste of precious components and elurium.

Winterwind

2007-12-04, 08:09 PM

Yeah, I tried it with DosBox. It worked fine until I tried to start a mission. Then of course, it crashed.

The version that I downloaded from Underdogs works perfectly for me; I don't even have to use DosBox (I'm running Windows XP).Hmm, strange. Oh, well, if you found a solution, all is fine, I guess. :smallsmile:

I never used incendiary ammo - I didn't find it good, and the flames, while dealing relatively little damage, had an annoying tendency to cook your soldiers just enough to send them to the hospital with X-degree burns (replace X with a number of your choice). Of course, I learnt that if you burn a zombie down, it won't spawn a Chryssalid - but it's too much hassle, I prefer to mow both of them down with plasma.Interesting detail, that part about the zombies. Still, I have the same feelings towards incendiary ammo. Besides, when I use a Cannon, it is so that everything in a certain radius dies, not is burnt a bit.

I always pack some AP ammo for my Heavy Cannon and Auto Cannon guys. That way, they won't be useless during attacks on small-but-crowded UFOs when you have to be really careful not to blow that power source up. Because it'd be a waste of precious components and elurium.I tend to use HE ammo only, and either not send the Cannon into the UFO, instead use it to help look for any aliens who might still be outside, or I bring it in, but only for the corridors where there is no valuable equipment yet. As for AP ammo - well, if I want damage on a single target with no explosion, that's what the Laser Rifles and Heavy Plasmas are for already.

ninja_penguin

2007-12-04, 10:01 PM

The first time that I beat X-Com, it was pretty fun. I found the strategy of building laser cannons in order fund my troops so well that I was easily out funding all of my sponsors. I generally worked with a kind of buddy system. One guy would advance, the second would be there to provide cover fire, in case there were a lot of guys hanging around that corner. In a funny twist of fate, my Commander actually had a bravery stat of 10. The reason that he got kept around was because of his INSANE shooting accuracy (By the end of the game, it was over 100%. He could aim shot a Chrysalid between the eyes from all the way across the map), and the fact that sectoids and Ethereals never targeted him for psionics. I never got time to send him in for testing, as I made my made my mad dash for the final mission.

Once I finally had the tech up (and a team that was no longer a bunch of redshirts), my general tactics and squad set up was such:

2 HWP (usually laser and plasma tanks. no rental fee, and no needing to reload these babies. I liked to use tanks as my initial scouts, as they're slow to panic, take a beating, and can successfully survive poking their head around the corner and come back to say "yeah, you really shouldn't go around there". I've also body-blocked chrysalids from the rest of my squad with a pair of tanks before. I've also parked my tank on an unconscious chrysalid to keep it from waking up again anytime soon.)

1 Commander/Sniper with flying suit. I usually sent him out in the second wave. He has a tendency to panic, but his insane sniping skills have saved more civilians and squad members then I could count
1- Mind Probe/Capture guy. Lops in the stun bombs, if I needed anybody else. otherwise work as a grenade monkey/stat checker for me.

? Assault squads. I can't remember how many I exactly used, as its been years, but I know it was almost how ever many you could fit into an avenger with two HWP. heavy plasmas, power armors, first aid kits, and alien grenades that got set to Dead Man's Switch when chrysalids showed up (prime them to 0. if they're zombified, they drop the grenade, and obliterate themselves, the chrysalid, and the chrysalid that would've spawned from themselves)

2-man blasterbomb team. These guys bail out the squad when things go south by annihilating most of the general area. I also had them wipe out the alien officers in bases and UFOs (after I'd done my needed capturing and interrogating) by lobbing blaster bombs in a one-two punch into the ship's bridge. the first one makes a hole, the second blows up inside and take them out. If you want to be crazy, you can punch two holes next to each other, and let a hovertank go inside. Always fun.

2-man psionics team. I had two rookies that testing ludicrously high, so they got bumped to the A-team. nothing like mind controlling an alien, having him shoot his buddies, then toss his weapon to a guy on your team. Seeing 'Chrysallid has panicked' made me laugh with gleeful and vengeful laughter.

For ships and bases, my HQ was in Europe, due to the highest concentration of sponsoring nations there. I had my psionics/radar base in America, and a third radar base in Antarctica. All with hyperwaves and mind shields, so I had token defenses only. I had two interceptors with plasma beams that took care of anything short of a battleship. if I had a battleship, the Avenger got rolled out, and A-team had to go back to using their old rental Skyranger for the month that the Avenger was generally down after the firefight. Later on I had all three ships converge with the avenger leading, and its downtime was reduced to a week or two.

X-com was a huge load of fun for me. Chrysalids and raiding alien bases actually had me tense and worried, and the final mission was especially epic, with my surviving squad (with my chicken-sniper of a commander) sprinting into the brain's chamber and mind controlling his guards into killing him.

I also liked to set sectoids on fire with incindeary rounds as a source of lighting for night missions. does that make me a bad person?

Cubey

2007-12-05, 10:18 AM

Funny trivia fact: accuracy in the game is dependent on the weapon, whether or not you have something in the other hand, your wounds, kneeling, the size of the enemy... but NOT the distance! As long as you have line-of-sight, the distance does not matter in the slightest (for establishing your chance to hit).

My comments on the Ufo: The Aftermath series: they are very well-made and have a great atmosphere. Especially the first one - each following title in the series gets less dark and more futuristic/spacey. However, these are NOT X-Com games. The feel is entirely different. There is far less tactics - grouping everyone up and simply shooting at the enemy is far more effective. Both your soldiers and the enemy have a lot more HP - one-shot kills which are standard for X-Com are practically unheard of, unless you use some overpowered weapons on a weakling enemy. And, while still creepy, it's more like "OMG creepy aliens took over the Earth and it's full of disturbing mutants now" instead of "OMG creepy aliens are doing disturbing stuff to take over the Earth". So: good games, but they don't really belong to the thread.

Winterwind

2007-12-05, 10:53 AM

Funny trivia fact: accuracy in the game is dependent on the weapon, whether or not you have something in the other hand, your wounds, kneeling, the size of the enemy... but NOT the distance! As long as you have line-of-sight, the distance does not matter in the slightest (for establishing your chance to hit).While this may be true, the theoretical chance to hit seems to indicate only how likely it is that you will hit the alien precisely, without any deviation, which is not the same as the chance of actually hitting the alien. Your chance of the shot going exactly the way you told it to go may not depend on distance; however, on a short distance a slight deviation might still allow the shot to hit the field (and alien) you targeted, while it would have made the bullet go far more astray and miss the alien on a larger distance. That seems to be the reason why larger targets are easier to hit, too - not because the accuracy increases, but because even a miss may still lead to a hit in practice. The best example for this would be shots at point blank range, or at a distance of merely a few fields - these undeniably miss more rarely than shots at a larger distance.

Cubey

2007-12-05, 11:38 AM

Indeed, this is why I posted that the distance doesn't matter when establishing the chance to hit, and not the actual accuracy itself. I saw one of my guys' stray shots killing others who were standing not-exactly-in-front-but-a-bit-to-the-side too often to ignore that.

Penguinizer

2007-12-05, 12:03 PM

Tekraen

2007-12-05, 12:24 PM

Blarg, need more alloys. Anyways, I'm researching the fighter/transport. But I need more alloys. I only got Personal Armor produced for both of my squads...

I've got the third base going well though :)

I kept my engineers busy by building alloys. If I needed cash, I'd sell off some of the stockpile; if there was something more important I'd put them on the job.

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-05, 04:07 PM

Wolf53226

2007-12-05, 05:14 PM

Loaded the game up the other day, saw one Very Small UFO in the first 15 days, then over the next month and a half, saw none. Had three terror missions though. Don't much like taking a team of rookies out on terror missions. First two terror missions were floaters and reapers, didn't have much issues with them, 2 KIAs and a wounded man was all I had to show from that. Third terror mission was sectiods and cyberdisks, all of a sudden all my guys coundn't hit either the sectoid or the disk we saw when exiting the skyranger. Killed the cyberdisk with my last guy that turn, course there was still the sectiod, who promptly threw a grenade at us, mission over!

Cubey

2007-12-05, 05:23 PM

I think you were unlucky with your base's placement. Set it up in a very crowded place - eastern Europe, central America or southeastern Asia are good choices. Don't forget Large Radar Arrays. And set up additional bases with radars and Interceptors in other locations - although they take time and money to build, so don't expect them to appear until the 2nd month.

You can also analyze the graphs - they show which areas the aliens were active in, even if you didn't catch any UFOs on radar. Large activity indicates either terror preparation or a constructing/running base.

Wolf53226

2007-12-05, 06:03 PM

I was in the process of building the second base, selling that many alien corpses gave me money out the wazoo :smallbiggrin:

My first base was in North America...probably Missouri or Iowa, something centrally located like that. It had a long range Radar. The first 2 terror missions were in Western Europe, and the last was in Cape Town, South Africa...not really all that close to where I was located.

Probably just bad luck, but it was the weirdest thing, in all my years of playing back in the day, I can never remember having seen so few UFOs over the US. Course even if I had seen the terror ships, by February you still don't have enough researched tech to do anything about them till the terror starts. While Avalache missles CAN take it down...the cost is pretty high to the fighter.

Winterwind

2007-12-05, 06:08 PM

Only one soldier made it down into the base. Undeterred, I chose to fight on rather than start over.

I cleared out the base and beat the game. The soldier even survived a shot from a Heavy Plasma.:smalleek:

You, sir, are hardcore. :smallbiggrin:

Large activity indicates either terror preparation or a constructing/running base.There is such a thing as terror preparation?

Cubey

2007-12-05, 06:26 PM

There is such a thing as terror preparation?

Sure there is. The aliens don't raid ad hoc, they send smaller vessels with Mission: Terror first. (EDIT: Even though these ships have Terror as mission, they won't actually terrorise, only fly around and gather data) Since each of these vessels that doesn't get destroyed before it can accomplish its mission scores aliens points, you can see an increase on the graph. Only the last vessel will be the Terror Ship - and if you downed enough of the smaller units that came before, it won't arrive! I guess the aliens weren't able to locate the city or something... maybe they're not so smart after all.

Although, to be honest, some of the aliens' behaviour during land missions indicates that a major part of them overused their Alien Entertainment systems.

Yami

2007-12-05, 07:15 PM

Exactly why I carry around a Stun Rod. Just in case I get an opportunity like this.

So far, in my years of playing this game, it's happened once...

...I just get a kick out of imagining the poor guy that gets handed a pistol and a cattle prod when everyone else has a high powered combat rifle.

Those of us that are lucky nab a Sectoid Leader and get Psionic Labs that way. The rest of us, well...we never really liked Jim anyway.

It's even better when you pull this in an RPG. My friends and I made an quick conversion from Mechwarrior 3rd ed and had a blast with it. Still nothing says a job well done like handing the most gung-ho character a cattle prod for the next mission and reminding them that civilian casualties are not an acceptable loss.

Still I find it odd that so many people here don't seem to use stun rods. But then, you people also use psionics so, eh. Me, I tend to run with a mixed bag of guys. Everything from a stunstick and grenade specialist to snipers with lazers to pistoleroes. It works for me, always having one sniper type to back up a 'melee', with an explosives expert nearby in case I need to blow everything up. As for stun rods being useless, they're one of the most effective weapons against the cyberdisks. And that counts for alot in my book.

Winterwind

2007-12-05, 07:15 PM

Sure there is. The aliens don't raid ad hoc, they send smaller vessels with Mission: Terror first. (EDIT: Even though these ships have Terror as mission, they won't actually terrorise, only fly around and gather data) Since each of these vessels that doesn't get destroyed before it can accomplish its mission scores aliens points, you can see an increase on the graph. Only the last vessel will be the Terror Ship - and if you downed enough of the smaller units that came before, it won't arrive!Ah, I see. Thanks. Didn't know that yet.

I guess the aliens weren't able to locate the city or something... maybe they're not so smart after all.Well, considering that, withing less than half a year, the X-Com can surpass them in terms of ship design... (I mean, c'mon, the Avenger is like twenty times smaller than a Battleship, and it is more powerful!)

Although, to be honest, some of the aliens' behaviour during land missions indicates that a major part of them overused their Alien Entertainment systems.I found that Chryssalids tend to display a rather strange behaviour occasionally - they walk almost up to the soldiers, but then suddenly turn around and run away again (as if they thought, "Oh crap, there's much more of them than I thought!") for a while, then turn around again and march up to the soldiers ("Oh, what the heck.") and run out of time units just a few fields away from their guns.

Winterwind

2007-12-05, 08:20 PM

Well, Terror from the Deep is difficult as hell. I think somebody in this thread put it quite eloquently: "If Enemy Unknown/UFO Defense is the X-Files, Terror from the Deep is Call of Cthulhu". This fits both the general atmosphere and the difficulty level. I mean, lobstermen...
My god, the lobstermen... :smalleek:
Why won't they die?! WHY WON'T THEY DIE?!

Cubey

2007-12-05, 09:25 PM

I think somebody in this thread put it quite eloquently: "If Enemy Unknown/UFO Defense is the X-Files, Terror from the Deep is Call of Cthulhu".
That would be me.

And don't forget Bio-Drones. Like Cyber-Discs, only smaller. Which means they are harder to hit. And Triscenes are real murderers - think a Sectopod, but no laser (gauss in this game) weakness.

As for your weaponry, Gauss (=Laser) requires ammo, normal weapons are even weaker than usual and Sonic (=Plasma) doesn't have Auto Fire and has a pitifully small clip. Heavy Plasma carried 10 shots. Sonic Cannon carries... 10.

Winterwind

2007-12-05, 09:52 PM

That would be me.Kudos to you, then, for a most excellent analogy. :smallsmile:

And don't forget Bio-Drones. Like Cyber-Discs, only smaller. Which means they are harder to hit. And Triscenes are real murderers - think a Sectopod, but no laser (gauss in this game) weakness.Oh yeah, I remember I stopped playing my first TftD campaign after encountering the first Triscene for quite a while out of frustration. It was on a ship mission, and the beast had managed to find a spot where it shot every soldier coming around the corner dead with unfailing accuracy, while being half in cover. The horror. :smalleek:
And Bio-Drones are vile, too. I think they are also a bit better armoured than Cyber-Discs are (or the weapons are weaker, same result).

As for your weaponry, Gauss (=Laser) requires ammo, normal weapons are even weaker than usual and Sonic (=Plasma) doesn't have Auto Fire and has a pitifully small clip. Heavy Plasma carried 35 shots. Sonic Cannon carries... 10.Fixed typo.
Is there even a reason to stay with Gauss weapons, once you can switch? They are so pitifully weak as compared to Laser weapons from the first game...

Not to mention that a lot of tech requires you to research aliens or alien bodies now. For instance the equivalent of Alien Alloys can't be researched simply by finding it, oh no - you need to research the dead body of the terror unit which comes with gillmen instead. Which is not much of a problem, but can make you discover the relevant technologies much, much later if you don't know it beforehand.

Cubey

2007-12-05, 10:14 PM

Heavy Plasma has 35 shots, actually. The bigger the difference.

And you can research Aqua Plastics as soon as you find them, I believe. You need the corpse to research Aqua Plastic Armour.

Winterwind

2007-12-05, 10:19 PM

Heavy Plasma has 35 shots, actually. The bigger the difference.Why, what did I say? :smalltongue:
(Yeah, you're right of course... embarrassing :smallbiggrin: )

And you can research Aqua Plastics as soon as you find them, I believe. You need the corpse to research Aqua Plastic Armour.Yeah, might have been that way instead. I haven't played TftD in a long while; whenever I play these games, I tend to go for Enemy Unknown instead. More nostalgic value. :smallwink:

Elektro

2007-12-05, 11:50 PM

Nice to see everyone still into this game. Give me UFO:Enemy Unknown and Alpha Centauri, and I'd never need another :smallbiggrin:

Since everyone's shared war stories, I'll share my most recent:

My game was ironman (save only on exit) on Superhuman difficulty. My strategy is always to get the navigator first, so I equipped a few brave souls with stun rods and went to work. I usually build in E. Europe and add a new base in the US as soon as I can. I build a hangar and workshops galore and start cranking out medikits for the cash. Laser weapons are first priority always. I had a navigator in the first month, leader in the second. All was going well except for massive casualties until I had personal armor. After that it was pretty much mind blasting and UFO/base clearing.

I ended up taking down Cydonia in month 8 after dallying a couple of months for fun. I lost 65 killed, 8 wounded for 603 aliens dead and 50 or so captured (yes, I was that obsessive :smallbiggrin: ).

My biggest disappointment was that I lost the UK to the aliens. Inflitration missions suck - 2 battleships, 1 terror, 2 scouts and any that land means you lose a country. They actually targeted Russia, but I lost UK instead. Shot down 1 battleship with a Firestorm, but it was too slow and too damaged to catch the other. Got it on the ground but it didn't matter. :smallmad:

I've been meaning to pick up TfTD. It sounds like a good challenge.

Winterwind

2007-12-06, 12:31 AM

I tend to play "ironman" too nowadays (though it was quite a bit different in former times, where I had a few favourite soldiers who were not allowed to die under no circumstances), but I tend to play on the medium difficulty settings instead; I remember when I first tried the Superhuman setting - I lasted exactly until the very first UFO appeared. The second I saw "Very Large" written all over its size description, I was so scared I immediately aborted the game. :smallbiggrin:

As for TftD, yeah, if you are that good, I think it would be the right game for you. It is way, way more difficult than Enemy Unknown. Lobstermen, the Mutons of TftD, shoot with far more accuracy and usually require something about three hits from the equivalent of the Heavy Plasma (which does not have an Auto Fire mode and far less shots per ammo clip). You imagine what happens if you use weaker weapons. (I ended up trying to finish them off by throwing about two Alien Grenade equivalents at each of them; of course, that allows them to react, and, oh, how well do they react!)

Now imagine going into an UFO with that aboard.

Cubey

2007-12-06, 12:38 AM

I'm playing on Superhuman at the moment, but not Ironman. In fact, I am so much of a perfectionist that I tend to load if I lose a soldier but can avoid it:

Game: Pew pew plasma beam!
X-Com Squaddie: Blargh! I am dead!
Me: Screw you! *loads*

I'm at my first alien base now, third month, and the situation looks very good. I have basically everything needed to research... well, everything, aside from an Engineer, a commander and a live Ethereal to have Psionics. And in the base I was lucky enough that both of my lifts were really close to each other, and the command center is kinda near as well. Unfortunately, it is a Snakeman base. Hello, Chryssalids!

Winterwind, you forgot to add that TftD's Muton-equivalents also have strong melee attacks and better terror units.

EDIT: Although I did let most of my men die during the T'leth (TftD's Cydonia) mission, last stage. The one with no saves, no map and a really strange interior - see for yourself, I won't spoil. I won't spoil the thing you have to kill there either. It was a slaughter, I think four of my men survived at best. I had to leave a tank at the stage before as well - it got stuck. I know it's just a radio-controlled toy with a cool gun attached, but I was still kinda sad.

Story time! One time, in TftD as well, I raided an enemy base, and I simply couldn't find the last alien. It was starting to creep me out, then to annoy me, so I decided to go the alternative route and blow the command center up. I packed up all the important stuff - Zrbite (this game's Elerium), check. Enemy commander, check... I filled up on other precious loot, like Sonic Cannons... with one exception. One of my soldiers carried a fallen sister-in-arms, who died during this mission. She was one of my most elite seamen, and I was saddened to lose her. I could have left the body to carry extra loot, or even dump it on the elevator's floor, but I decided - no. We leave no one behind, no one. We won't let these pesky aliens make sushi out of my soldier. Imagine the scene - victorious seamen return back to the base, but one of them carries a dead X-Com operative, KIA, in his hands...
I think I just moved myself.

Winterwind

2007-12-06, 12:50 AM

I'm playing on Superhuman at the moment, but not Ironman. In fact, I am so much of a perfectionist that I tend to load if I lose a soldier but can avoid it:

Game: Pew pew plasma beam!
X-Com Squaddie: Blargh! I am dead!
Me: Screw you! *loads*That's exactly how I used to play, but I am forcing myself now to not do that, even if my best soldiers die - it makes you fear the aliens again, and I literally duck and cower in frightful anticipation of what will happen every time I click that dreaded "End Turn" button.
The only situation when I would still load would be if some alien thought it was funny to Blaster Bomb the landing zone, or something like that.

I'm at my first alien base now, third month, and the situation looks very good. I have basically everything needed to research... well, everything, aside from an Engineer, a commander and a live Ethereal to have Psionics. And in the base I was lucky enough that both of my lifts were really close to each other, and the command center is kinda near as well. Unfortunately, it is a Snakeman base. Hello, Chryssalids!Alien base, third month? That is early... oh, right, Superhuman.

Winterwind, you forgot to add that TftD's Muton-equivalents also have strong melee attacks and better terror units.Yeah, they are not called lobstermen without reason. :smalleek:

The descriptions of all aliens and their autopsies after you research them are much more fear-instilling than in Enemy Unknown, too - human brains transplanted into alien bodies and forced to operate them, beings from secondary evolution paths with common origin as humans... or the lobstermen, with the entire carapace being reinforced with metals more resiliant than titanium and their eyes replaced with targeting computers... *shiver*

Cubey

2007-12-06, 12:58 AM

Yeah, a typical alien description from Enemy Unknown consists of a few stale facts and the sentence "we do not know how it is able to do that", a typical description from TftD makes you feel like reading Lovecraft again: "OMG, this is so inhuman, so bizarre, so cruel, the horror! Someone gouge my mind-eye out!".

I also made a rather long edit in my previous post.

Winterwind

2007-12-06, 01:14 AM

Although I did let most of my men die during the T'leth (TftD's Cydonia) mission, last stage. The one with no saves, no map and a really strange interior - see for yourself, I won't spoil. I won't spoil the thing you have to kill there either. It was a slaughter, I think four of my men survived at best. I had to leave a tank at the stage before as well - it got stuck. I know it's just a radio-controlled toy with a cool gun attached, but I was still kinda sad.I really need to take my time once and finally beat this game.
Though I am afraid. Oh, so very afraid... :smalleek:

Story time! One time, in TftD as well, I raided an enemy base, and I simply couldn't find the last alien. It was starting to creep me out, then to annoy me, so I decided to go the alternative route and blow the command center up. I packed up all the important stuff - Zrbite (this game's Elerium), check. Enemy commander, check... I filled up on other precious loot, like Sonic Cannons... with one exception. One of my soldiers carried a fallen sister-in-arms, who died during this mission. She was one of my most elite seamen, and I was saddened to lose her. I could have left the body to carry extra loot, or even dump it on the elevator's floor, but I decided - no. We leave no one behind, no one. We won't let these pesky aliens make sushi out of my soldier. Imagine the scene - victorious seamen return back to the base, but one of them carries a dead X-Com operative, KIA, in his hands...
I think I just moved myself.Oh yes, X-Com tends to make people act like this. I remember, back when I was playing my first game of Enemy Unknown (I must have been something around 11, or so, and playing this perfectionist style of not allowing any soldier to die), I made a few safegames where I just could not, no matter what I did, save a couple of my soldiers - they had sustained too heavy wounds, and I could not reach the last aliens in time. My first officer, secondary in command to my Commander, died that way, and two of my premier heavy weapon carriers. To which I responded by making a small cemetary out of paper, for these three fallen soldiers (though I had to hide it from my mother later on; she thought it was way too morbid). Rest well, Ivan Nicholajev, Gregory Ragulin and Maria Blake.

Wow. I still remember their names. :smalleek:

Yeah, a typical alien description from Enemy Unknown consists of a few stale facts and the sentence "we do not know how it is able to do that", a typical description from TftD makes you feel like reading Lovecraft again: "OMG, this is so inhuman, so bizarre, so cruel, the horror! Someone gouge my mind-eye out!".Oh yes, absolutely. And I'm pretty sure they did indeed take the inspiration from Lovecraft. T'leth? More like R'lyeh!

I also made a rather long edit in my previous post.Thanks, I would have missed it if you had not mentioned it.

Elektro

2007-12-06, 01:19 AM

I'm playing on Superhuman at the moment, but not Ironman. In fact, I am so much of a perfectionist that I tend to load if I lose a soldier but can avoid it:

Game: Pew pew plasma beam!
X-Com Squaddie: Blargh! I am dead!
Me: Screw you! *loads*

Heh, classic. I too was like that, but I wanted to play more realistically. Just to show the hell that ironman can be, I'll also tell some war stories. :smallbiggrin:

First mission, sectoid medium scout, landed. Night mission (screams of Xcom junkies everywhere). 8 recruits go down screaming in the plasma fire. You know how after that first mission you get a sergeant or two. Yeah, for me it was a whole new squad except for the two who survived.

Second mission, snakeman terror at night (are we sensing a trend yet? :smallbiggrin: ). Of course its a map with tons of buildings right near the Skyranger. Lost two captains and a colonel, and the frickin' commander on the first turn. Of course, with the rest of everyone freaking out and unable to hit the broadside of a chryssalid, the casualties mount. Of course, the aliens manage to hit everyone with psi strength over 70. Needless to say, I got so pissed that I started blaster bombing the whole map. I didn't make many friends on that mission, but the commander was dead so there was no one for the funding nations to bitch to. :smallamused:

Alien base, third month? That is early... oh, right, Superhuman.

Yeah, I had a base retaliation in the first month. I rebuilt. :smallbiggrin:

Great stories Cubey and Winterwolf. You get attached to those little guys and gals. I remember thinking who the hell was going to write the letter home after that terror mission above. I about chewed my nails off in those missions with that music and random footsteps/door openings. I don't think another game has made me feel like that, Too bad we got screwed with the real UFO sequel.

Winterwind

2007-12-06, 01:32 AM

First mission, sectoid medium scout, landed. Night mission (screams of Xcom junkies everywhere). 8 recruits go down screaming in the plasma fire. You know how after that first mission you get a sergeant or two. Yeah, for me it was a whole new squad except for the two who survived.Sectoid medium scout? How did they manage to slaughter you so badly? I mean, yeah, if they landed, they do have quite a lot of aliens out there, but still... they must have been picking you off one by one and then running away into the safety of the night. Wow. Scary. :smalleek:
(also, that's exactly the reason why I maintain that there are few items more useful than e-flares at night :smallbiggrin: )

Second mission, snakeman terror at night (are we sensing a trend yet? :smallbiggrin: ). Of course its a map with tons of buildings right near the Skyranger. Lost two captains and a colonel, and the frickin' commander on the first turn. Of course, with the rest of everyone freaking out and unable to hit the broadside of a chryssalid, the casualties mount. Of course, the aliens manage to hit everyone with psi strength over 70. Needless to say, I got so pissed that I started blaster bombing the whole map. I didn't make many friends on that mission, but the commander was dead so there was no one for the funding nations to bitch to. :smallamused: Whoa, that was mean on the aliens' part, no doubt about it. :smalleek:

Also, somehow I get the impression night missions are much more easy to come by. Probably that's just biased perception, but then... from the last ten missions in my current game, I think there was maybe one which happened in broad daylight.
Then again, I love the lighting at dusk or dawn. Especially in a desert or ice environment. Sure, it may be bad for my soldiers (though not as bad as night would be), but it looks just... awesome.

Yeah, I had a base retaliation in the first month. I rebuilt. :smallbiggrin: ...ouch. :smalleek:

Great stories Cubey and Winterwind. You get attached to those little guys and gals. I remember thinking who the hell was going to write the letter home after that terror mission above.Oh yes, indeed. :smalleek:

I about chewed my nails off in those missions with that music and random footsteps/door openings. I don't think another game has made me feel like that, Too bad we got screwed with the real UFO sequel.I know of exactly one other game which made me just as high-strung (though from a completely different genre which I usually do not like as much), and that was Thief. Incidentally, that was the first game to challenge X-Com's place as my most favourite game whatsoever. (Yep, that's right, StarCraft was not the first one; for some reason, StarCraft needed more time to go click for me).

Elektro

2007-12-06, 01:57 AM

Sectoid medium scout? How did they manage to slaughter you so badly?

It was a map with the Skyranger and UFO with nothing, not even trees in between. Some punk sectoid with a heavy plasma thought it would be funny to pick off my fire teams from across the map. I enjoyed that sectoid death groan probably a little more than is entirely healthy. :smallbiggrin:

Also, somehow I get the impression night missions are much more easy to come by. Probably that's just biased perception, but then... from the last ten missions in my current game, I think there was maybe one which happened in broad daylight.

I'd agree. I think it's because the Skyranger is so damn slow. I always end up getting their at night because it takes forever (the Avenger spoils you :smalltongue: ).

Great stories Cubey and Winterwind.

My bad. The Etherals ate my brain. :smallbiggrin:

I know of exactly one other game which made me just as high-strung (though from a completely different genre which I usually do not like as much), and that was Thief. Incidentally, that was the first game to challenge X-Com's place as my most favourite game whatsoever. (Yep, that's right, StarCraft was not the first one; for some reason, StarCraft needed more time to go click for me).

Never played it, but it must be good if you can compare it to X-COM. As for
Starcraft, loved the story, sucked at the game. I could build a kick ass defensive Terran base, but that was it.

Winterwind

2007-12-06, 02:16 AM

It was a map with the Skyranger and UFO with nothing, not even trees in between. Some punk sectoid with a heavy plasma thought it would be funny to pick off my fire teams from across the map. I enjoyed that sectoid death groan probably a little more than is entirely healthy. :smallbiggrin: Uah, I see. Nasty. :smalleek:

I'd agree. I think it's because the Skyranger is so damn slow. I always end up getting their at night because it takes forever (the Avenger spoils you :smalltongue: ).Oh yes, it does. :smallbiggrin:
But still, in theory, every now and then the Skyranger should start at night, and arrive when day begins. Somehow, the aliens manage to always get shot down in such a way that this does not happen, unless maybe you wait before you send it out (and I don't want to do that - not only is it too much micromanagement for me to care about, but also you never know whether you won't need the Skyranger and its crew for some other mission soon again.

I wonder whether the aliens see worse at night, too. I think at least some of them do.

My bad. The Etherals ate my brain. :smallbiggrin: Little buggers sure like to do that, don't they? :smallbiggrin:

Well... it's far more kind than what the Terror from the Deep aliens would have done to it. :smalleek:

Never played it, but it must be good if you can compare it to X-COM. Oh yes, it is. It's just full of such scary moments, the surroundings are creepy, the background sounds are beyond creepy, and it has a superb story (well, once the story launches, anyway); I remember, when I played the sequel rather recently, I'm stalking through the darkness of a crypt beneath a cathedral, and hear a ghost approaching. Ghosts in that game speak with a thousand of unintelligible voices and moanings all over each other, which alone is enough to creep one out, and they are amongst the most powerful combatants in a game where you are not supposed to go into a fight in the first place, lest you want to be torn apart. So I hide in the next shadow and wait for it to come. The moaning approaches... approaches... but I still see nothing. I know it can't be in some corridor to the left or right from me, since the sound is coming from both speakers at once, and it's still coming nearer, so loud I know I should have long seen it.
Then I realise that the only explanation for that is because I must have misjudged in my initial assessment of where that ghost is, and it must actually be right behind me now. I twist around, in mortal terror, and in that very second the ghost passes right next to me - I could not believe it did fail to notice me even in spite of the merciful darkness obscuring me from its sight. But I know I almost jumped out of my chair...

As for Starcraft, loved the story, sucked at the game. I could build a kick ass defensive Terran base, but that was it.Oh yeah, the Terrans are good at that. :smallbiggrin:
And it's a game which requires practice. Practice and a helluva lot of theory.

Triaxx

2007-12-06, 06:25 AM

Ewww... Let's not bring Blizzards... stuff, into a perfectly good thread.

Since I can't play the first game, I'll share warstories from Interceptor.

Probably my favorite is hunting the cloaking ship. It almost always ends up as the final ship, and to avoid shooting friends, I send them running for home. Then it's all about doing enough damage that I can see it's exhaust trail as it flys by, then putting rounds right into the head. Since you can only lock on while it's visible, and it changes direction the way they tend to do, it's quite the exercise in patience.

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-06, 10:36 AM

:smalleek:

You, sir, are hardcore. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, that was pretty intense, even though it was on it's lowest difficulty at the time.

I was lucky that the soldier was also one of my strongest psychics, a mind-dominated Chryssalid is the most potent revenge on the planet (or off, as the case may be :smallbiggrin: )

kkortekaas

2007-12-06, 11:18 AM

FYI - Never attempt to Psionically control a civilian to get him out of harms way...it results in the civilian "turning" againts the x-com forces in future turns. While they can't actually do anything to harm you, you do have to kill them to complete the mission (or stun actually)

Archonic Energy

2007-12-06, 11:25 AM

you do have to kill them to complete the mission (or stun actually)

Urge to Stun all Civvies, Rising.

pendell

2007-12-06, 12:31 PM

For those looking for a copy, I believe it's one of the games at www.gametap.com. It should run on any computer that can handle the gametap software.

BTW, I always gave a stun rod to everyone and had them carry it in the backpack rather than in the hand. I don't pass up an opportunity to capture if at all possible.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

kkortekaas

2007-12-06, 12:33 PM

They get counted as "Killed by X-Com Agents" if you stun them. It's pretty stupid because your only doing it to protect them.

I'm playing on Genius at the moment, I'm in March, have 3 bases (2 are essentially Interceptor bases + token defense force) and have a Psionics program in full swing. I've actually been able to reduce the amount of troopers sent on a mission to 6, with 2 of those being my Psionics Troopers.

Standard proceedure is to scout out with the 4 regular troopers and then control anything else I encounter and herd them to a central location...it's great.

Cubey

2007-12-06, 10:09 PM

I wonder whether the aliens see worse at night, too. I think at least some of them do.

They don't. Their visibility range is not dependent on the time of day, and even in sunlight it's larger than it should be. The AI is a cheating bastard.

As far as setting up whether your mission takes place during day or night, I found it useful to discover that the Skyranger moves roughly (very roughly) as fast as the day changes. Also remember that missions don't disappear as long as at least one unit is targeting it - even an Interceptor half a globe away! So if your Skyranger is getting refueled while a Terror mission pops up, order an aircraft to reach that place - then the other one, then the other, and so on until you are able and willing to send the troop transport.
Hey, AI! I can be a cheating bastard too!

EDIT: Scary and difficult game told only in internet memes:
Sectopod: Im in ur terror missin, killin ur civilians!
X-Com agent with a Heavy Plasma: The goggles, they do nothing!
X-Com agent with a Laser Rifle: Shoop da woop!
Sectopod: Me not want! *assplode*

Winterwind

2007-12-07, 01:41 AM

EDIT: Scary and difficult game told only in internet memes:
Sectopod: Im in ur terror missin, killin ur civilians!
X-Com agent with a Heavy Plasma: The goggles, they do nothing!
X-Com agent with a Laser Rifle: Shoop da woop!
Sectopod: Me not want! *assplode*Looks like the X-Com agent with a Laser Rifle shot the Sectopod's weak point for massive damage. :smallbiggrin:

Rutee

2007-12-07, 01:55 AM

They get counted as "Killed by X-Com Agents" if you stun them. It's pretty stupid because your only doing it to protect them.

Mind Control one. It'll revert to the Aliens. Then you can kill them and not lose points. You won't get points for saving them, obviously, and they don't add points for killing them, but you won't take the Civvie Death penalties.

Winterwind

2007-12-07, 01:59 AM

You can't mind control something that has been stunned though, so the only situation where that would make sense, in a twisted way, would be if a Civilian was undoubtedly unsafeable.

I tend to go out of my way to try and safe them after all though. After all, we're the saviours of mankind, not some scheming beings operating everything from another world concerned only about points and treating everything like a game, right? :smallwink:

Tekraen

2007-12-07, 09:33 AM

Looks like the X-Com agent with a Laser Rifle shot the Sectopod's weak point for massive damage. :smallbiggrin:

It's super effective!

Winterwind

2007-12-07, 09:39 AM

It's super effective!Though, let's face it - trying to stop the alien invasion with just a few dozen soldiers? This is madness!

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-07, 10:43 AM

Though, let's face it - trying to stop the alien invasion with just a few dozen soldiers? This is madness!

...

...

...must...resist...

...aw hell...

Madness?

THIS IS X-COM!

...sorry

Winterwind

2007-12-07, 03:34 PM

...sorryDon't be sorry, I take the full responsibility for this one. :smallbiggrin:

Also, I think I'm renaming the next rookie I send into the UFO as cannonfodder to take the shots instead of the veterans.

To Leeeeeerooooooyyy.....

What? :smallconfused:
At least he has chicken!

Tengu

2007-12-07, 06:23 PM

I must say, those last posts (and many others in the thread, to a lesser extent) do a good way of removing any last bits of scary from the game that made me fear the dark when I was a kid.

Triaxx

2007-12-07, 08:05 PM

Chrysalids. That should bring the scare back up.

Yami

2007-12-07, 08:14 PM

Terror Mission at night, and you don't even see anything hostile for two turns. That is nerve wracking.

preserver3

2007-12-07, 08:21 PM

Winterwind

2007-12-07, 10:53 PM

I must say, those last posts (and many others in the thread, to a lesser extent) do a good way of removing any last bits of scary from the game that made me fear the dark when I was a kid.Consider it nervous joking to play down the fear. Kinda the same way a group of soldiers in a major war might right before they go into the battle they know they will likely lose. :smalleek:

TheOtherMC

2007-12-07, 11:36 PM

Winterwind

2007-12-07, 11:43 PM

Laser weapons are getting flak? :smallconfused:

I love using Laser weapons, as much as possible, and some of the most dangerous aliens have a weakness against them which makes them pretty much a necessity!
(though, once Mutons show up, you make the game much more difficult for yourself without Heavy Plasmas, since Laser Rifles can't one-shot Mutons reliably)

TheOtherMC

2007-12-07, 11:46 PM

I eventually get invaded by mutton? Ive wondered what the Incendiary ammo was for... :smallwink:

Winterwind

2007-12-07, 11:50 PM

Yep. Though this kind of Muton is much less fluffy. Much more of a green, mean, lean, killing machine.

(And incendiary ammo won't do much good against them)

Rutee

2007-12-08, 12:41 AM

I must say, those last posts (and many others in the thread, to a lesser extent) do a good way of removing any last bits of scary from the game that made me fear the dark when I was a kid.

If it helps, the game's still scaring me.

Psychosomatic

2007-12-08, 04:45 AM

I still remember my first encounter with chryssalids... *shudder* All I had at that point was personal armor... and by the end of the mission I'd lost 3 men and at least 4 civvies to the bugs. Eesh.

I did come up with some strategies that I'm fairly proud of, though. I'm sure they're well-known now, but I still enjoyed them. My favorite was the "morale-killer" strike that involved two blaster-launcher equipped soldiers. The first blows a hole in the top of the UFO, the second lands his bomb right through the hole. Once you know where the command/navigation area is on the larger UFOs (and don't need to capture any special-rank aliens for research), it's a devastating tactic. I was also quite pleased when I learned that Heavy Plasmas could shoot down many of the walls in the game. Alien bases become so much easier to traverse when you blow out a few walls.

I just wish there was an easier way to refit bases - the starter base is laid out so horribly. All of my bases that I build beyond the first follow the same rule of hangers on the north connected to only each other and the main lift, which is itself connected to the rest of the base. So much easier to defend that layout.

TftD I played for a while, but honestly the difficulty change was a bit much for me at the time. "Flying" chyssalid-analogues are just too much. Ugh.

Apocalypse I really enjoyed, though. I didn't like the smaller scale of a city versus the entire planet, but I really enjoyed the rest of it. Invading the alien dimension was a total blast, as were many of the new weapons/gadgets. (Boomeroids for the win!)

Cubey

2007-12-08, 11:01 AM

You can refit the first base to be more attack-friendly by relocating only three buildings - the two hangars go from the lowest row to the highest one (well, two highest ones since hangars take 4 squares), and the living quarters from the third row up are rebuilt somewhere down from there, leaving only the access lift on the third row and the three hangars above it. That's quite easy to defend.

Cubey

2007-12-08, 11:03 AM

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-10, 09:10 AM

I dont see the flak Laser weapons are getting, I personally love the idea of no ammo to worry about.

Then again ive only been playing this game for two weeks....and im only in July on easiest setting....

It's not the Laser Weapons that are getting flak, it's the Laser Cannons. Laser Rifles are pretty much the best standard issue weapon in the game before Heavy Plasma. Laser Cannons, on the other hand, have the shortest range of any ship weapon and are pretty much only good for manufacturing to sell.

Wraith

2007-12-12, 08:33 AM

Okay, I think it's just about official. I suck at this game :smallbiggrin:

I hadn't played it before I read this thread, but was inspired to give it a try. Many hours later, it'd probably be a good idea if, should aliens ever make it to Earth, I were to sit quietly at a table with my hands always in view...

The first time I tried, I started off building a base in Russia - seemed sensible, as it was the biggest landmass and therefore the most likely to get my more money from nearby sponsors, right?

Newbie trepidation was my downfall - I only hired 30 or so scientists out of fear for their cost and spent the next 8 months sloooooowwwwwwly researching the basic necessities like laser weapons and power armour. Meanwhile, Terror Missions came and went while I couldn't do anything about it, and by the time I'd got anything to fight them off with I was assaulted by Cryssalists and Ethereals on all sides.
Filthy rich from all the little UFO's I'd caught, but not enough time to spend any of it before the really nasty aliens came out to play and ate my Team.

The second attempt went slightly better - first thing I did was plant 2 more Living Quarters and Laboratories and filled them up with scientists from the get-go. Unfortunately I was now in the USA and UFO's came in a very slow stream; one every 3 weeks or so with Terror Missions popping up slightly more frequently. Basically I had researched everything I had found by the end of July and had all sorts of cool new toys, but no way could I afford to build them and the really good plot-related stuff was completely out of reach because I couldn't afford the Firestorms necessary to bring down medium/large UFO's and therefore get the links I needed.

As soon as I'd just about equipped my Squad with useful equipment, half the countries supporting me had withdrawn their support and a lack of caught UFO's meant I immediately slipped into the red and stayed there. Again, I didn't even have time to research a PSI Lab.

That and it went straight from a small UFO of Sectoids to a LARGE UFO full of Mutons with nothing at all in between. Them buggers are not fun to try and fight without armour and with normal rifles....

Next time, a happy medium I think. Bigger landmass for more kills, and go to about 60 scientists instead of extremes like 30 or 150. That should do it...

*in comes the Cryssalid Swarm just to prove me wrong...* :smallbiggrin:

Winterwind

2007-12-12, 08:58 AM

The first time I tried, I started off building a base in Russia - seemed sensible, as it was the biggest landmass and therefore the most likely to get my more money from nearby sponsors, right?A variety of sponsor countries is more valuable than just a big landmass. That's why I tend to always start in Europe, you just have so many sponsors around you, whom you can protect from evil aliens with infiltration missions (those are the missions where the aliens try to convince the governments to defect to them).

Newbie trepidation was my downfall - I only hired 30 or so scientists out of fear for their cost and spent the next 8 months sloooooowwwwwwly researching the basic necessities like laser weapons and power armour. Meanwhile, Terror Missions came and went while I couldn't do anything about it, and by the time I'd got anything to fight them off with I was assaulted by Cryssalists and Ethereals on all sides.
Filthy rich from all the little UFO's I'd caught, but not enough time to spend any of it before the really nasty aliens came out to play and ate my Team.Never miss out on Terror Missions. Yes, the opposition is powerful, but so is the reward for the saved civilians, and the negative points for letting a Terror Mission succeed... ouch. Even if your equipment sucks, nevermind, go and save them. You may lose soldiers, but it's not like you can't hire new ones, right?

The second attempt went slightly better - first thing I did was plant 2 more Living Quarters and Laboratories and filled them up with scientists from the get-go. Unfortunately I was now in the USA and UFO's came in a very slow stream; one every 3 weeks or so with Terror Missions popping up slightly more frequently. Basically I had researched everything I had found by the end of July and had all sorts of cool new toys, but no way could I afford to build them and the really good plot-related stuff was completely out of reach because I couldn't afford the Firestorms necessary to bring down medium/large UFO's and therefore get the links I needed.Two Quarters and Laboratories is a bit excessive, at least for the beginning. I usually go with one additional Living Quarters and add one Lab some time later - in the beginning, you can't afford to staff it properly anyway, so why build Labs and pay upkeep cost at a time when you won't be able to use even the one Lab you start with at full capacity?
I hope you built a Large Radar, those are essential to detect the UFOs.
You don't need Firestorms to kill medium/large UFOs - the range of a weapon is the same no matter on which craft it is mounted, and since Plasma Cannons and Fusion Bomb Launchers have a greater range than that of any UFO except a Battleship, the fragility of the Interceptor doesn't matter. The only real problem is how slow they are - here you need luck and more radar sites around the globe.

As soon as I'd just about equipped my Squad with useful equipment, half the countries supporting me had withdrawn their support and a lack of caught UFO's meant I immediately slipped into the red and stayed there. Again, I didn't even have time to research a PSI Lab.No Terror Missions and landed UFOs? Those are usually an opportunity to make up for missing points in case of too few UFOs in desire of being shot down.

That and it went straight from a small UFO of Sectoids to a LARGE UFO full of Mutons with nothing at all in between. Them buggers are not fun to try and fight without armour and with normal rifles....Uuuah, scary. :smalleek:
Bad luck, I suppose - usually stuff like that happens only on the higher difficulty settings.

Next time, a happy medium I think. Bigger landmass for more kills, and go to about 60 scientists instead of extremes like 30 or 150. That should do it...I tend to go for 80-100 in the long run (if you build a second lab, why not use it to its capacity?).

Triaxx

2007-12-12, 09:51 AM

I prefer to save construction of a second lab until I put down my second or third base. That way I don't get crowded out in my first base.

Driderman

2007-12-12, 10:05 AM

Good places to build a base:

Southern tip of Greenland: Covers Europe, Canada and most if not all of North America.

Central America: Covers South America and possibly parts of asia if properly situated.

South Eastern Europe: Covers Russia, Europe, North Africa and a fair percentage of Asia.

These spots are, along with a base placed on Madagascar for coverage of South Africa (the nation), the places where I have my bases in my current game and I'm pretty sure no UFOs escape my radar coverage. All bases of course have large radars.

As a side-note, the base in central america seems pretty obsolete right now, except for the fact that I use it to mass-produce Heavy Lasers for sale to the general public. Seems like the aliens aren't interested in the americas at all...

Tekraen

2007-12-12, 10:11 AM

If you want to save cash on personnel costs, then transfer your research/manufacturing personnel the day before the end of the month. Since they're in transit, the game won't charge you for them as they aren't housed.

Badgerish

2007-12-12, 10:26 AM

Well, i'm nearing completion on a difficulty 3 (veteran?) run.

researching the last plot topic (had a nice easy floater base to raid) with 100 scientists, got 4 decent psi-troopers and i'm building my second avenger (as i have everything else i need and 20mill banked).

the only problems i have had where a downed ethereal terrorship when i just had plasma weapons(captain: "quick, hand me a laser rifle!" private: "laser rifles? well, there is a funny story about that...") and my only contact with Mutons, where a Muton battleship flew directly to my unmanned USA base and squashed it flat (didn't even see any warm-up retaliation ships)

Artanis

2007-12-12, 11:51 AM

Okay, I think it's just about official. I suck at this game :smallbiggrin:

I hadn't played it before I read this thread, but was inspired to give it a try. Many hours later, it'd probably be a good idea if, should aliens ever make it to Earth, I were to sit quietly at a table with my hands always in view...

The first time I tried, I started off building a base in Russia - seemed sensible, as it was the biggest landmass and therefore the most likely to get my more money from nearby sponsors, right?
As others have said, you need to build your base where you can cover as much sponsership worth of money as possible. This generally means either somewhere in the USA (your biggest sponsor) or in Europe (near about fifty smaller sponsors).

Newbie trepidation was my downfall - I only hired 30 or so scientists out of fear for their cost and spent the next 8 months sloooooowwwwwwly researching the basic necessities like laser weapons and power armour. Meanwhile, Terror Missions came and went while I couldn't do anything about it, and by the time I'd got anything to fight them off with I was assaulted by Cryssalists and Ethereals on all sides.
Filthy rich from all the little UFO's I'd caught, but not enough time to spend any of it before the really nasty aliens came out to play and ate my Team.
One trick to Terror Missions is that you can show up and then take off the instant you land. You'll lose a lot of points, but not nearly as many points as if you just ignored it entirely.

That said, I try to fight it out on Terror Missions anyways, but if you really, really aren't in any shape to even think about taking one on, that's an option to consider.

The second attempt went slightly better - first thing I did was plant 2 more Living Quarters and Laboratories and filled them up with scientists from the get-go. Unfortunately I was now in the USA and UFO's came in a very slow stream; one every 3 weeks or so with Terror Missions popping up slightly more frequently. Basically I had researched everything I had found by the end of July and had all sorts of cool new toys, but no way could I afford to build them and the really good plot-related stuff was completely out of reach because I couldn't afford the Firestorms necessary to bring down medium/large UFO's and therefore get the links I needed.
You only need Firestorms if you want to shoot down Battleships. Literally any other UFO can be taken down by putting Plasma Cannons on a regular Interceptor and having it Cautious Attack, since Plasma Cannons have longer range than them. And Battleships usually aren't worth shooting down anyways, just take them out after they land.

As soon as I'd just about equipped my Squad with useful equipment, half the countries supporting me had withdrawn their support and a lack of caught UFO's meant I immediately slipped into the red and stayed there. Again, I didn't even have time to research a PSI Lab.
If you can get enough Workshops and Engineers running, you can largely support yourself by building and selling stuff (with Laser Cannons being the most effective way to make money).

And Psi Labs are priority number ONE because psionics are so incredibly overpowered.

NEO|Phyte

2007-12-12, 01:14 PM

Incidentally, is it a bad thing that the final mission of the first X-Com makes me think of this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=G_sBOsh-vyI)?

Wraith

2007-12-12, 05:36 PM

As others have said, you need to build your base where you can cover as much sponsership worth of money as possible.

By "Russia", I should probably clarify that I meant "The Soviet States near to Russia". My bad, but it covered most of Europe and North Africa. That's why that game ended with me being eaten, not disbanded. :smallbiggrin:

No Terror Missions and landed UFOs?

Nope. "RussCOM" (the first game) made it up to Mission 50 or so before I was wiped out. "AmeriCOM" didn't even make it to Mission 20 before all my funding was pulled. It really was THAT slow, even with a small and a large RADAR in the same base just to be absolutely sure.

Bad luck, I suppose - usually stuff like that happens only on the higher difficulty settings.

Nope, easiest setting. I just had a LOT of time to research new gear, so by my second mission everyone had laser rifles and most had armour and I think the game was feeling upset about this. Talk about a sore loser! :smalltongue:

One trick to Terror Missions is that you can show up and then take off the instant you land. You'll lose a lot of points, but not nearly as many points as if you just ignored it entirely.

I was not aware of this. Thank you kindly sir, I shall see it put to good use.

Ah well.... I'll give it another bash. Wish me and "EuroCOM" luck - I think I'll probably need it.... :smallsmile:

Yami

2007-12-12, 07:25 PM

One thing I'd suggest is checking the Graphs every month to see where the aliens have been going. If it shows thier hanging around in australia and you've only got bases in N America and Europe, then that could eplain lack of Ufos and loss of sponsership.

Ah, but now we need to know what to do about it. Your skyrangers can detect ships. Once you figure who the aleins are bugging you just send a skyranger to patrol the area.

Terror missions can be a real pain, I'll agree with you there. I've had one where my first three soldiers out the door got shot from the side the moment they left the ship. My fourth finally managed to take a second step and disembarked to check it out, finding himself infront of a line of 4 Cyberdisks. Some times you just have to pull out and leave your man behind.

Another peice of advice, grenades or the larger explosives. If your sending someone in into dangerous territory and tight spaces, have them prime something. I lose alot of people to the enemies reaction fire, but when a soldier dies, any grenades on him drop and start counting down. Found a ship full of mutons? Don't send your men inside without making sure those mangy curs don't get free kills.

Do not use this tactic if your men are bunched up or your wielding valuable weaponry though.

As for reaserch, I often work with just 50, hire some more at a second base once things start getting hectic, and then sell em all later.

Driderman

2007-12-13, 10:14 AM

My usual research strategy is to add a second Lab to my main base as soon as I have the money to hire researchers for it and build a third lab in a second base.
The primary lab with 100 scientists focus on the more important discoveries while the secondary lab takes care of the miscellaneous.
This also ensures that if I should lose my main base, however unlikely, I have a reserve Lab so research won't grind to a halt completely.

Winterwind

2007-12-13, 11:02 AM

By "Russia", I should probably clarify that I meant "The Soviet States near to Russia". My bad, but it covered most of Europe and North Africa. That's why that game ended with me being eaten, not disbanded. :smallbiggrin: Sounds like a fair position.

Nope. "RussCOM" (the first game) made it up to Mission 50 or so before I was wiped out. "AmeriCOM" didn't even make it to Mission 20 before all my funding was pulled. It really was THAT slow, even with a small and a large RADAR in the same base just to be absolutely sure.A small and a large RADAR is not something special, it is, rather, mandatory, in my humble opinion. In fact, I go with a small one and two large ones usually (unless I get an early Hyperwafe Decoder, that is).

Nope, easiest setting. I just had a LOT of time to research new gear, so by my second mission everyone had laser rifles and most had armour and I think the game was feeling upset about this. Talk about a sore loser! :smalltongue: Laser rifles and armour? :smalleek:
Wow, that must be the worst luck ever.
Yeah, I can see how this few missions would ruin your rating.

I was not aware of this. Thank you kindly sir, I shall see it put to good use.For the love of mankind, don't, unless things go completely haywire. Terror missions are where you are supposed to be scoring points, not losing them - and if you do that, you still will lose many points. Yes, Terror Missions are difficult, and be prepared to lose a couple of soldiers, but still - go for it. Even with regular rifles and no armour it is possible to take out Cyberdiscs, by the point Chryssalids and Mutons appear you will almost certainly have better weapons (this previous game of yours must have been the exception that proves the rule) - and it's quite possible to take out both with Laser weapons, plasmas are not mandatory.

Do whatever you want, but do not skip Terror Missions. :smalleek:

Ah well.... I'll give it another bash. Wish me and "EuroCOM" luck - I think I'll probably need it.... :smallsmile:Good luck. :smallsmile:

Artanis

2007-12-13, 11:30 AM

For the love of mankind, don't, unless things go completely haywire. Terror missions are where you are supposed to be scoring points, not losing them - and if you do that, you still will lose many points. Yes, Terror Missions are difficult, and be prepared to lose a couple of soldiers, but still - go for it. Even with regular rifles and no armour it is possible to take out Cyberdiscs, by the point Chryssalids and Mutons appear you will almost certainly have better weapons (this previous game of yours must have been the exception that proves the rule) - and it's quite possible to take out both with Laser weapons, plasmas are not mandatory.

Do whatever you want, but do not skip Terror Missions. :smalleek:
Agreed. Just to clarify, I've never actually used this...uh..."tactic". I've just kept it in mind as an absolute, last-ditch, guaranteed-to-fail-otherwise-anyways, no-other-options contingency. Like if you've had a lot of killed/wounded and haven't gotten replacements in yet, leaving you with two guys to send to a nighttime terror mission :smallwink:

Tekraen

2007-12-13, 12:15 PM

Agreed. Just to clarify, I've never actually used this...uh..."tactic". I've just kept it in mind as an absolute, last-ditch, guaranteed-to-fail-otherwise-anyways, no-other-options contingency. Like if you've had a lot of killed/wounded and haven't gotten replacements in yet, leaving you with two guys to send to a nighttime terror mission :smallwink:

There were times when I'd keep one soldier in the craft during a terror mission, sniping from the rampway just in case everything went south.

Winterwind

2007-12-13, 12:46 PM

There were times when I'd keep one soldier in the craft during a terror mission, sniping from the rampway just in case everything went south.Once I have Blaster Bomb Launchers, I tend to leave the guy equipped with that in the craft. After all, it does not matter to him, he still will hit everything with unerring precision (just take extra care when placing the first few waypoints for the missile, you sure as heck to do not want to accidentally hit some part of the craft... :smalleek: ).

Telepaths can also stay behind, they are just as effective back in the ship.

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-13, 02:06 PM

Usually I don't have Blaster Launchers until after Flying Suits, so my Launcher goes up between the tail fins of the Skyranger. It's still covered and greatly reduces the risk of accidently setting a bomb off inside the ship.

The medic and one other guy sit between the rear wheels and behind the loading ramp, they're protected and always around when I need them.

Elektro

2007-12-13, 02:11 PM

A small and a large RADAR is not something special, it is, rather, mandatory, in my humble opinion. In fact, I go with a small one and two large ones usually (unless I get an early Hyperwafe Decoder, that is).

I'd have to agree. Detection for radars is just a percentage chance, so having 2 large radars is essential until you get the Hyperwave Decoder. You can scrap the small system, as it is not needed (long-range/short-range detection was never implemented in the game).

Also, radar range is hemispherical over the surface of the earth. That means that your detection range is actually much less when a UFO is at high altitude (in contrast to real-life). This means that you miss a lot of UFOs nearer your base than you might think. With a 5% chance of detection every 10 minutes, unless the UFO is slow and low you're not going to detect it.

This is why the Hyperwave Decoder is always my first priority, even over armor, laser weapons, and psionics. In addition, it lets you pick and choose what targets to attack (Alien Research -> meh, Alien Infiltration -> %^&#!). You can't shoot them if you can't see them :smallbiggrin:

Do whatever you want, but do not skip Terror Missions.

Right. You lose 1000 points and the aliens gain 1000 (net -2000 point swing) for each ignored terror site. If you land and take off you will probably lose 200-300 points, which is much, much better. Especially since ignored terror sites usually mean alien infiltration missions soon afterwards.

I'd have to agree with the advice to start in Europe. I usually like Cyprus or Crete, as it gives good coverage of all Europe's sponsors, Russia, and Egypt. The UK can be a little exposed, as I learned from a infiltration mission that snuck over the Atlantic and I detected too late to stop, but you can fix those gaps later. The Europe base also seems to have plenty of UFO activity, as you have the majority of funding nations (i.e. targets :smallbiggrin:) there. US bases seem to suffer from a lack of UFO activity, so I do that second. Eventually I build up to max bases, with Interceptors in the southern continents that target de-orbiting UFOs bound for the funding nations.

Jimorian

2007-12-16, 09:49 PM

Did anybody else think that in 513 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html), Tsukiko had maybe learned her tactics from X-Com? :smallwink:

Cristo Meyers

2007-12-17, 02:02 PM

Did anybody else think that in 513 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html), Tsukiko had maybe learned her tactics from X-Com? :smallwink:

*Skyranger-1 has just landed in Novosbirisk, Commander Tsukiko is addressing the troops*

"Alright, don't forget we're using the buddy system here. If your buddy get's attacked, report it in."

"Right, Ma'am."

"And what do you do if you see a Chryssalid?"

"Umm, die horribly?"

Traveling_Angel

2007-12-19, 07:34 PM

No, it's "scream like a little girl and empty our Heavy plasma clip."

Doomsy

2007-12-19, 11:15 PM

Actually, it's "Hey new guy holding the primed high explosive and the laser pistol. Run up to the crab guy. Trust me, this'll work."

Cubey

2007-12-20, 02:53 AM

I'm in September now. Lost Egypt and the other North African country (was it Algeria?) to the aliens - which is kinda scary because that's where my engineering base is located. Fortunately, I researched all the important things except for Cydonia or Bust already, so the base is heavily defended and fortified. I am also disappointed that the aliens didn't try to retaliate against my major base - I didn't rebuild it for nothing, man! :smallyuk:
Although they did destroy my South African base - EthnicScrappy (yes, my bases are named after TVTropes, I'm a bad man I know). Scrappy indeed, even the aliens hated it... I rebuilt it as TokenMinority, let's hope it will last longer now.

Speaking of let-downs, it's disappointing to finally finish your first psionic training month and discover the team's best shot has Psionic Strength of ~25. At least my Captain has it at 87. He will probably become a Commander now, that I recruited 20 cannon fodder more for psi-talent fishing.

Artanis

2007-12-20, 11:37 AM

Speaking of let-downs, it's disappointing to finally finish your first psionic training month and discover the team's best shot has Psionic Strength of ~25. At least my Captain has it at 87. He will probably become a Commander now, that I recruited 20 cannon fodder more for psi-talent fishing.
Yeah. It always made me sad to let go of that ubersoldier because he simply couldn't resist shooting his buddies in the face when a Sectoid told him to :smallfrown:

It always felt like I was being a jackass and pulling something like this...

Me: Hi, Commander! Come in, come in!
Commander: What's up chief?
Me: You remember that Manila Terror Mission, where you killed ten snakemen?
Commander: Yeah! That was great fun. Too bad about the Crysalids.
Me: ...err, yeah. And you remember that base assault where you blew up four Mutons with a grenade?
Commander: Boy, was that a tough one. We were lucky to get through that at all.
Me: And you remember when the aliens assaulted our base, and you killed five Floaters with an assault rifle?
Commander: Thank god they weren't Mutons!
Me: Yeah. Good times, good times. You're the best soldier I've ever had. And you're fired.
Commander: Why thank y...wait, what?

And yeah, Psi-talent fishing is important. I sometimes wind up with four or five bases with 20 rookies in them (10 training, 10 waiting to replace them) just to sift through as many soldiers as possible to pluck out a full Avenger's worth of Psi-resistant troopers.

Tekraen

2007-12-20, 12:04 PM

Yeah. It always made me sad to let go of that ubersoldier because he simply couldn't resist shooting his buddies in the face when a Sectoid told him to :smallfrown:

It always felt like I was being a jackass and pulling something like this...

Me: Hi, Commander! Come in, come in!
Commander: What's up chief?
Me: You remember that Manila Terror Mission, where you killed ten snakemen?
Commander: Yeah! That was great fun. Too bad about the Crysalids.
Me: ...err, yeah. And you remember that base assault where you blew up four Mutons with a grenade?
Commander: Boy, was that a tough one. We were lucky to get through that at all.
Me: And you remember when the aliens assaulted our base, and you killed five Floaters with an assault rifle?
Commander: Thank god they weren't Mutons!
Me: Yeah. Good times, good times. You're the best soldier I've ever had. And you're fired.
Commander: Why thank y...wait, what?

And yeah, Psi-talent fishing is important. I sometimes wind up with four or five bases with 20 rookies in them (10 training, 10 waiting to replace them) just to sift through as many soldiers as possible to pluck out a full Avenger's worth of Psi-resistant troopers.

I usually just gave them a stun prod and used them as a 'scout'. He made first contact, my psychic took the guy over, and I'd hopscotch them back up into the ship so they couldn't do much of anything that first round.

Elektro

2008-01-22, 04:35 PM

Tengu

2008-01-22, 06:19 PM

Sounds like an interesting idea. I might join, but that'll base on the further information we receive.

Winterwind

2008-01-23, 11:54 AM

Do characters in D20 modern go as much from mortal to ungodly powerful as they, apparently, do in D&D? Because if so, wouldn't a more rules-light, less character power enhancing system be more befitting X-Com's terrifying and paranoid atmosphere (like, say, Call of Cthulhu or such)?

Anyway, I'll pass due to unfamiliarity with the system. Sounds very interesting though. :smallcool:

Telok

2008-01-23, 02:17 PM

I'm planning on starting a UFO/X-Com turn-based D20 game here on the forums. I'm thinking 6-8 players, based on a fusion of D20 Modern and D20 Future, with Psionics of course.

I'm giving you all first crack at expressing interest. I'll post the recruiting thread in a couple of days and cross-post the link here.

You realize of course that people from this thread will adopt X-Com style tatics on missions.

Squad One. The Hunters.
Two gunners with good reflexes and shooting who advance cautiously and hold actions. Two grenadiers with good strength and throwing, carrying medkits and stun weapons too.

Squad Two. The Beaters.
Four gunbunnies and two porters. Chosen for brawn, enthusiasm, and expendability. The porters carry ammo, gunbunnies like full-auto.

Squad one gets the best armor and first pick of energy weapons. Pack a few electro flares on the grenadiers, but make sure they have some smoke grenades too. If you hole a UFO chuck in four to six smokes and see if you capture any aliens with asphyxiation.

Squad two gets personal armor at best. Start with rifles and/or autocannons, move them to laser rifles eventually. If you get rich enough give them plasma rifles, but don't bother to spoil them.The porters will be carrying ammo and detpacks, plus a pistol or laser pistol because they might get a shot off but don't have many action points.

Needless to say it's squad two that kicks open doors and goes around blind corners first. Sometimes a lucky guy from squad two graduates to squad one. Throw him a party, he survived.

Of course this would need adjustment for a party of PCs. I'm thinking rocket launchers... and lots of extra ammo.

DM: You see movement in the shadows ahead.
P1: I fire a rocket at it.
P2: I fire a rocket at it too.
P3: I ready an action to fire a rocket at anything that moves that's not us.
P4: I pull two rockets out of the box in the wheelbarrow and hold them out to those two.
DM: Do you even care if that was an alien?
P5: Not unless there's enough left to identify it. Oh, I throw a flare at the spot they blew up too.
P6: I light my flamethrower and prepare to burn the evidence.

What? I've played CoC this way. It works.

Penguinizer

2008-01-23, 02:43 PM

I'm in, dibs on blaster bombs and launchers.

I personally have a tank on my squads. just for the fact that I like to clear out buildings, shall we say, thoroughly.

Elektro

2008-01-23, 05:04 PM

You realize of course that people from this thread will adopt X-Com style tatics on missions.

But the aliens will be played by a DM who knows all those strategies and knows how to beat them. To stay true to the original, there will be scads of PC death, at least in the beginning. :smallamused:

DM: You see movement in the shadows ahead.
P1: I fire a rocket at it.
P2: I fire a rocket at it too.
P3: I ready an action to fire a rocket at anything that moves that's not us.
P4: I pull two rockets out of the box in the wheelbarrow and hold them out to those two.
DM: Do you even care if that was an alien?
P5: Not unless there's enough left to identify it. Oh, I throw a flare at the spot they blew up too.
P6: I light my flamethrower and prepare to burn the evidence.

Awesome. :smallbiggrin:

I'm working on statting everything out. I've finished weapons and armor, and I'll try to finish the aliens tonight. The first few missions will be more of a playtest, so I can tweak everything to make an enjoyable experience.

Artanis

2008-01-23, 06:39 PM

DM: You see movement in the shadows ahead.
P1: I fire a rocket at it.
P2: I fire a rocket at it too.
P3: I ready an action to fire a rocket at anything that moves that's not us.
P4: I pull two rockets out of the box in the wheelbarrow and hold them out to those two.
DM: Do you even care if that was an alien?
P5: Not unless there's enough left to identify it. Oh, I throw a flare at the spot they blew up too.
P6: I light my flamethrower and prepare to burn the evidence.
If nothing else does, this alone piques my interest :smallbiggrin:

Jonzac

2008-01-31, 02:11 PM

Don't forget the "tax evasion" trick. If you put your engineers and scientists in TRANSFER to another base on the last day of the month, you don't get charged for their monthly fees.

I just wish I could get XCOM Gold pack working with Windows XP. <sigh>

NEO|Phyte

2008-01-31, 02:19 PM

Interested. Not sure what I'd play, but interested.

SolkaTruesilver

2008-01-31, 05:20 PM

What I loved most about this game, is.. the tension. The goddamned music that put me on my toes. That fact that I jumped in my seat when an alien suddenly appear and shot me.

What Afterlight lacked, I think, is the deadlyness of the weapons. XCom is a truly tactical game. I use cover backups, and "plently of reflex" scouts to check out the ennemies. I sourround a door with knelt soldiers in order to stop alien from coming out of the UFO, until I cleared the area.

Then, when everybody is in position, get in while throwing grenades near the accesses, and finish up while the aliens have trouble seeing.

GOD I hate climbing up stairways. There is no efficient and sure way to do that. That's why I love flying suits. "Death from above" rules. Off course, when you can see anything on the map, anything can see you... MWAHAHAHA

By the way, has it ever happened to you that a base Command Post self-destruct? I once attacked a Sectoid base (the bitches psychic powers are bad), and I took my time to kill everybody and getting every of my soldiers in position before attacking with my (3) last soldiers. 1 round before getting in, I saw a serie of 7-8 explosions inside the command post. I moved in, and finished the last sectoid alive. Everything was destroyed.

Tengu

2008-01-31, 06:48 PM

By the way, has it ever happened to you that a base Command Post self-destruct? I once attacked a Sectoid base (the bitches psychic powers are bad), and I took my time to kill everybody and getting every of my soldiers in position before attacking with my (3) last soldiers. 1 round before getting in, I saw a serie of 7-8 explosions inside the command post. I moved in, and finished the last sectoid alive. Everything was destroyed.

Maybe one of the aliens went berserk and accidentally hit a power source or something else explosive?

Alternatively, an alien misaimed with a Blaster Launcher - there is a bug with shooting it directly down, but I don't know the details. Ask Cubey, he breathes this game.

Wraith

2008-01-31, 07:36 PM

A big, shiny coin says it was the latter, if only because it happened in my game about 10 minutes ago :smallbiggrin:

I have 2 Squads on the go; one full of Commanders, Sergeants and Captains because they're getting ready to head off the Mars, and the other is just Squaddies led by a couple of sergeants to hold down the fort while the others save their Elyrium for the journey ahead.
I figured that it never hurts to have The B Team toughen up a little in the even of an accidental TPK for Squad A, so when a Battleship full of Mutons lands an inch away from their Base, I couldn't believe my luck. My guys practically walked over to their target and knocked on the door.

Everyone kills off the 3 or 4 luckless Mutons who happen to be wandering around the scenery as they made their way to the central lift. They all gathered around the door, kneeling in case something nasty ran out at them. "This is is, boys and girls!" cried the Sergeant. "Next turn, we're all heading in and killing those suckers once and for al-"*KABOOOOM!**ARGARGARG!!!!*

Yep. For no apparent reason, something exploded on the top floor and killed three Mutons and KO'd a fourth before my Squad had even made it through the door. There was no "Enemy Muton Panics!" message, they were just idiots that forgot to open the window before shooting out of it.

Which, when you're already ass-deep in Elyrium, are running out of places to keep your money and are just trying to harvest some experience by killing things, is just bloody typical. :smallyuk:

Mr.Moron

2008-01-31, 07:41 PM

Wow. It's been forever since I played XCOM. This thread is making want to give it a go again. Anyone have a link to one of the downloads, I know the game has been free for quite a while.

EDIT: If it was already linked somewhere in the thread, I apologize for the question. I'm too lazy to fish through all 7 pages.

Wolf53226

2008-02-01, 08:52 AM

Here you go Mr.Moron, these are the links that have been provided by the the good users Winterwind and Toxic Avenger.

All discussion so far was about UFO: Enemy Unknown, known in the US as X-Com: UFO Defense.

The only ones I have played were this one, and its immediate sequel, X-Com: Terror from the Deep.

After others have already stated the place, all that remains for me is to post a direct link (http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/38/UFO+-+Enemy+Unknown.html) for completeness' sake.

I had troubles with both of those. Both versions would crash when I started my first mission.

I tried The Underdogs (http://www.the-underdogs.info/game.php?gameid=4966) yesterday, and it worked for me just great! :smallbiggrin:

And for completeness sake, there is this very useful link that Cubey left us.

Heavy Plasma sell for good cash, but they take 1000 engineerhours to complete. There is plenty of stuff that you produce much faster.

This (http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/199362/1825) gamefaqs article has a full table. Abridging it, the best items to create for money are:
Laser Cannon
Fusion Ball Launcher
(long gap here)
Tank/Laser Cannon
(another gap, but not as long)
Psi Amp (it takes elerium, so don't)
Motion Scanner
(somewhat smaller gap)
Medikit
Heavy Plasma
Laser Rifle

These numbers are prone to some fluctuations based on how many engineers and engineering bays you have, but the general idea doesn't change much.

SolkaTruesilver

2008-02-01, 03:07 PM

Wolf53226

2008-02-01, 03:44 PM

Well, from what I've seen, they end up with better stats after all the bonuses from when they joined, and your guys seem to take more of a morale hit if one of your ranked people dies. But these are just things I seem to have noticed and might just be what is happening in my games for completely different reasons. When I get home from work I will do a quick page through of the book that comes with the game and see if it says anything.

Artanis

2008-02-01, 03:50 PM

I have to ask. Is there any game mechanics that depends on the ranks?

People in the FAQs always explains HOW soldiers gets promoted. But I just don't understand if there is any bonuses when you have a promoted soldier...
AFAIK, there's no bonus to the soldier itself for getting promoted. All your troops have better morale if there's higher-ranking guys on the mission, and morale loss to the rest of your troops gets bigger as the casualty gets higher in rank (i.e. your Commander getting shot is going to scare your troops a hell of a lot more than Rookie Meat Shield #4906 eating a Plasma blast). But otherwise, I don't think the promotion itself does anything.

Now, your highest-ranking troops will be your best, of course. But that's because they're badass enough to get promoted, not the other way around :smallwink:

Elektro

2008-02-01, 03:57 PM

Soldier promotion is a function of experience and the number of squaddies you have in X-Com. Any gain of experience will increase the secondary stats of your soldiers (accuracy, TUs, strength). Stuff like psi strength doesn't change, and bravery only does very infrequently (morale drops under 50 and a successful combat).

Muz

2008-02-01, 04:31 PM

Inspired by the thread, I went home during lunch today, fished out my X-Com CD, found the XP patch, and started a game. (Not that I could play very long before going back to work, but still.)

I'd forgotten how amusing (both in good and bad ways) the opening cutscene is, though. I like the art and the scenes...and the opening music before the X-Com squads show up, but the music as they go into action...Wow. :smallbiggrin: Terrifying alien horrors, and these guys are going in with music that would be fitting of giant cheesy grins and jazz hands. :smallwink:

Looking forward to replaying it (I'm going to see about an ironman game this time), though, and possibly seeing how well I do with #2. I'm also trying to get a friend who loves the first one to play the second. The problem is that she KNOWS its harder and has zero interest. I'm not sure why I'm so interested in getting her to play. Misery loves company, maybe? :smallsmile:

Cubey

2008-02-01, 06:00 PM

I'd forgotten how amusing (both in good and bad ways) the opening cutscene is, though. I like the art and the scenes...and the opening music before the X-Com squads show up, but the music as they go into action...Wow. :smallbiggrin: Terrifying alien horrors, and these guys are going in with music that would be fitting of giant cheesy grins and jazz hands. :smallwink:

I consider that intro to be an in-game X-Com propaganda piece. It makes much more sense that way. Note how anime style the whole thing is (the actual art being an exception) - soldiers leaping huge distances, the screen splitting to show face expressions, the face expressions themselves (but only the mutons'). And I was very disappointed to find out that the Muton King in his red and gold armor isn't actually in the game.

Someone mentioned a blaster launcher bug. Here's how it is - if you launch it straight down, or (unsure about this one) straight up, it will instead fly towards the lower left corner. That's very deadly, both for aliens and for you. So aim that thing carefully!

EDIT: I remember the engineer/scientist exploit. Still, I never needed to do that - I was flowing in money. There's one aspect that's easier if you play on Superhuman - that is, the battles are difficult and enemy bases pop up like crazy, but if you manage to win a mission... there was more aliens, which means not only more opportunities to shoot and upgrade themselves for your soldiers, but also more weapons == more $$$.

Muz

2008-02-01, 06:57 PM

I consider that intro to be an in-game X-Com propaganda piece. It makes much more sense that way. Note how anime style the whole thing is (the actual art being an exception) - soldiers leaping huge distances, the screen splitting to show face expressions, the face expressions themselves (but only the mutons'). And I was very disappointed to find out that the Muton King in his red and gold armor isn't actually in the game.

Propaganda. I like that idea. Oddly, it hadn't even occurred to me that there was no Muton king.

DAMN YOU, NON-EXISTENT MUTON KING!!!:furious:
:smallwink:

Mr.Moron

2008-02-01, 07:31 PM

I forgot just how brutal this game is. It seems I've completely forgotten how to play and it's showing me no mercy during the learning process. Of course, I think that's half the fun of it.

Tengu

2008-02-01, 07:45 PM

Propaganda. I like that idea. Oddly, it hadn't even occurred to me that there was no Muton king.

DAMN YOU, NON-EXISTENT MUTON KING!!!:furious:
:smallwink:

Maybe it's just a muton Leader or a Commander? The game doesn't have different skins for different alien ranks, probably to save memory, but it's not a stretch to imagine them looking different in the actual game.

Also, this intro might be amusing now, but it scared the crap out of me when I was a kid.

I forgot just how brutal this game is. It seems I've completely forgotten how to play and it's showing me no mercy during the learning process. Of course, I think that's half the fun of it.

That's old strategy (and other genres too, but mostly strategy) games to you - they rarely have a tutorial or a learning curve, they throw you at the deep water from the start and it only gets harder after that.

Elektro

2008-02-01, 09:26 PM

Maybe it's just a muton Leader or a Commander?

Could be, but in-game there are no Muton Leaders or Commanders. They're supposed to be the mind-controlled death squads of the Ethereals.

I'd have to agree with Cubey that the intro is more like propaganda than actual combat. I mean, autocannons and all that won't do **** against a Muton. He'll just turn around and reaction fire you with a heavy plasma and cook you. Especially in personal armor.

Cubey

2008-02-01, 09:33 PM

I'm rather sure Muton Leaders aren't banned, only Commanders are. But nevertheless, that Muton King Guy looks like a generic evil villain from a Power Rangers-inspired show. Hence why I think it's propaganda. This is also why they use Personal Armor - it is feeble, but looks EXTREMELY cool. Weak weapons have already been pointed out.

SolkaTruesilver

2008-02-02, 12:19 AM

I want to know..

1) Who holds the remaining license of XCom? Is it the same license than the UFO games? (Afterxxxx ?)

2) IS the good old XCom game's copyright expired? If yes, could an amateur programmer redesign the game, with the SAME CORE GAMEPLAY (less bugs), but better skins, 3d animations, and more little goodies? Or is that in a violation of Law X and Y?

factotum

2008-02-02, 03:42 AM

UFO: Aftershock and its variants are nothing to do with the X-Com series, even though they lifted most of their ideas from that source. I really don't know who owns the rights to the X-Com games now--the last one (X-Com Interceptor) was released by Microprose, though; Microprose were owned by Hasbro, which got merged into Infogrames. So, if anyone has the rights to the X-Com game right now, one would assume it's actually Atari, since they're the video games branch of Infogrames.

endoperez

2008-02-02, 05:35 AM

I'll have to get a game up!

I've heard that UFO: Extraterrestrials comes pretty close to the feel of the original. Various mods exist to bring it closer, but it still isn't quite the same. I haven't got to try it myself, though. The Finnish game magazine PELIT had a huge article about it, favourably comparing it to the original X-Com games (with a little side-box "the gray aliens are back" explaining what the original X-com was for those who wouldn't know about it), AND bashed the AfterX-series. :smallbiggrin:

The magazine has good retro-game articles, and I only buy it whenever I can find something like that. The last magazine explained why some old games like Ultima IV are legends.

Muz

2008-02-02, 06:17 PM

A moment of silence, please, for the brave squad I foolishly valiantly sent in to an alien base in early march armed with laser rifles and partial armor, who were never heard from again.

Sectoids. One got mind controlled into panicking, ran into an open area and got shot. A bunch more just plain got shot from aliens popping out from cover. Another got shot by a fellow squaddie who'd been mind controlled. THAT squaddie got shot in self-defense by the squad leader (if the guy could be MCed THAT easy, we didn't want him around anyway), but then the squad leader got MCed himself and took out ANOTHER guy before wandering into a nest and getting blasted by a cyberdisk.

I've only two soldiers left at the moment, both of whom only survived because they were wounded and couldn't go on the mission in the first place. :smalleek:

This is my first "ironman" attempt. Clearly either I've forgotten how to play well, or I was too reliant on reloads.

...Stupid sectoids. :smallmad:

Matthew

2008-02-02, 06:27 PM

Neo

2008-02-03, 06:33 AM

You can copy a game and do the above, but not make another in the series. Currently Take Two Interactive own the X-Com rights. Only real way to make a fan project of an existing series is as freeware and even then just hope it's not a picky company that will cease and desist you.

There was a vague rumour that Irrational(think that's Sid Meier's guys) were making one at some point last year when they were asked about it and said something like 'sure, why not'

Mr.Moron

2008-02-03, 04:07 PM

I'm starting to get the hang of it again. Finally got a full compliment of flying suits and plasma weapons. Hover tanks and multiple bases. Then I realized the horrible mistake I made. I trashed all my traditional ships and now my fancy ships are running out fuel, next time I really need to more conservative with my E-115 usage.

Muz

2008-02-03, 05:02 PM

Mr.Moron

2008-02-03, 05:10 PM

I've never even built Firestorms. Er, well, I built one, then I saw the range was crap, so I didn't bother with them anymore. I didn't much like that I couldn't get tanks on the Lightnings, either. Am I missing some positives, or does everyone else think that, too?

They have more HP than an interceptor, UFOs that return fire can rip standard interceptors to shreds even if they armed with the best weapons. They're also faster, so UFOs have a harder time out pacing them.

That said I think an Avenger is a much better investment. It's tough as nails and can pack 4 tanks.

spocko

2008-02-04, 03:24 AM

i love X-com 1, TftD wasn't horrible but it wasn't any better then x-com 1. i'm just trying apoc. again, a lot more micro managment then i like. (troops don't auto-rearm properly, no message when your out of gun X clips, etc.). going to see if i can get the UFO seirres off e-bay at some point, if they are like the orginal 2 should be fun.

anyone else have problems finding spots big enough for a good base in apoc? only getting to use the "tunnel" space is annoying.

factotum

2008-02-04, 03:57 AM

I actually preferred Apocalypse--I really liked the way that, if you shot out the supports for something, it would collapse (it was really freaky to shoot out the trunk of a tree in the earlier games and for the rest of the tree to remain hovering in mid air). Yes, the cityscapes meant that the missions were all a bit samey compared to the earlier games...pity they never did a world-wide game using the Apocalypse engine, because that would have been cool!

Artanis

2008-02-04, 12:54 PM

They have more HP than an interceptor, UFOs that return fire can rip standard interceptors to shreds even if they armed with the best weapons.
The key phrase here is "UFOs that return fire". Plasma Cannons outrange literally anything that is not a Battleship, so if you put a couple on an Interceptor and use "cautious attack", the UFO will never return fire, allowing the Interceptor to knock it down with total impunity. It's another story entirely when dealing with a Battleship of course, but it's not like a Firestorm can withstand that kind of punishment all that well either.

Talanic

2008-02-04, 01:09 PM

Muz

2008-02-04, 02:04 PM

I'm starting to fire any recruits that come through with 10 bravery. (Geez, don't they screen these people??)

Does anyone know if the aliens need line of sight to mind control someone? (Or at least zap them enough to make them panic?) I've got an excellent sniper who's only at 20 bravery (up from 10--she made it in before the above policy), and basically just sits back in cover, popping out only to snipe. She's got the most kills of the entire squad and is disturbingly accurate, but I keep wondering how much that low bravery might hurt me later. ("Oh, good! The deadeye sniper has been mind controlled!") :smalleek:

spocko

2008-02-04, 02:16 PM

being mind controlled is a function of a diffrent stat (mental discipline?)that you won't be able to see until the soldier has had a months training at a psy (lab?).

Muz

2008-02-04, 02:27 PM

Looks like I'm worried about bravery too much, then. :smallsmile:

Any ideas on the LOS thing, though?

Cubey

2008-02-04, 02:29 PM

It's called Psionic Strength, but you got that right - this, and not Bravery, is what affects your resistance to psionic attacks. These attacks do not require LOS either, but the aliens won't use them unless one of them sees your men and/or X-Com agents are really close to one of the aliens. The last thing is really annoying when storming UFOs.

It's another story entirely when dealing with a Battleship of course, but it's not like a Firestorm can withstand that kind of punishment all that well either.

I think you under appreciate Firestorms. One such fighter can down a Battleship (if you're flipping between its Aggressive and Normal attack patterns to make sure the UFO stays in moderate range) - it will sustain heavy damage most of the time, but it should survive in 70% cases. If you're not sure, bring two. Avengers have the disadvantages of:
1. Eating up a lot of fuel
2. Repairing very slowly
3. Being available later, and you need something to ward off Battleships in the meantime
I do not even start on Lightnings.

SolkaTruesilver

2008-02-04, 03:07 PM

Heh. Can't forget how I once trained up Bravery.

I sent out a core squad of veterans (4 of them) and a bunch of expendable rookies (entire rest of Avenger full) to take on a Small Scout (one alien). Veterans had flying armor, great stats, heavy plasmas (not equipped--they'll panic/berserk), etc. Rookies had grenades.

First turn: All rookies leave the ship.
Second turn: All rookies prime grenades and drop at their feet.

Turn twelve: Vets have recovered enough morale to mop up the single alien. All of them have gained a little bit of bravery.

Harsh? This is WAR!

The Gamefaqs article has a better way to improve bravery.

You need: 3-4 Etherals

Mind-Control the Etherals, and get them in a closed room. Disarm them (the weapons, not the arms!). Disarm all your wanna-be-brave squad, and put them in the same room. See the Etheral mind-controling/panicking your squads. The most weak psychally will be the prime target, so if you want stronger psi chars to improve morale, retreat the weakling psis.

Also, take a uber-strong psi guy, and block the door (disarm him too). That way, the etherals won't get out of the room and recover weapons.

Press "end turn" until round 100. take weapons and kill etherals.

WARNING: make sure you will ALWAYS have at least 1 Squaddie under your control, or you will lose the mission

Artanis

2008-02-04, 04:07 PM

I think you under appreciate Firestorms. One such fighter can down a Battleship (if you're flipping between its Aggressive and Normal attack patterns to make sure the UFO stays in moderate range) - it will sustain heavy damage most of the time, but it should survive in 70% cases. If you're not sure, bring two. Avengers have the disadvantages of:
1. Eating up a lot of fuel
2. Repairing very slowly
3. Being available later, and you need something to ward off Battleships in the meantime
I do not even start on Lightnings.
I probably underestimate them, yeah. But then, I would usually just let the Battleship land and take it out on the ground, and anything else can be handled by Interceptors :smallwink:

Looks like I'm worried about bravery too much, then. :smallsmile:

Any ideas on the LOS thing, though?
The answer is "mostly".

If an alien can see your guy, then obviously alien Psi-guys can target him with Psionic attacks. However, if you kill off all the aliens that can see your guy, they can still psi-attack him if he stands in one spot, as though they were targeting the square itself.

Cainen

2008-02-04, 05:13 PM

I also had a brief fliteration with a D20 modern conversion but it never went anywhere. Anyone care to help me develop this? it'd be pretty hot.
Already had a ball with this one; the most I changed was statting guns to fire more than once a round(BAB doesn't give anything but a to-hit bonus here) and adding different ways to fire guns. Since TUs would be painful to implement, I went with a full attack/standard attack system; the full attack would obviously get more attacks per round, whereas the standard would get less shots off. Aimed/Snap were standard for every gun that wasn't an LMG or heavier, and burst/full-auto were also options.

Here's an example of a stat block; this was one of the first guns I statted, and it worked out well.

Laser Rifle - Laser Weapons Proficiency
Damage - 3d12+4, 19-20x3
Range: 100 ft. Weight: 10 lbs

This gun shoots a relatively accurate laser beam at its target with very little recoil. While not as powerful as the 'plasma' weaponry the aliens are using, it's certainly better than any other human weapon of its class.

Aimed Shots: 3/1, +4 to hit.
Snap Shots: 5/3, no bonus.
Burst Fire: Three shots to a burst, 2/0, consecutive -1 to each shot past the first.
Full Auto: Eight shots, consecutive -1 penalty to each shot.

Now then, UFO2000 is tons of fun, but how many of you have tried UFO: Alien Invasion? It's certainly gotten better since the first time I tried it, and it tries to stick to the basics of X-COM while still making itself different than it. It's got multiplayer as well, and I'd love to see how well that holds up.

Artanis

2008-02-04, 05:15 PM

Now then, UFO2000 is tons of fun, but how many of you have tried UFO: Alien Invasion? It's certainly gotten better since the first time I tried it, and it tries to stick to the basics of X-COM while still making itself different than it. It's got multiplayer as well, and I'd love to see how well that holds up.
I gave it a shot last night, but it was late and I couldn't stay up long enough to do more than figure out the basics. It certainly has potential though.

Cubey

2008-02-04, 10:27 PM

I probably underestimate them, yeah. But then, I would usually just let the Battleship land and take it out on the ground, and anything else can be handled by Interceptors :smallwink:

If an alien ship lands then its mission succeeds. Yes, even if you raid it during the landing or shoot it down afterwards. And because Battleships are mostly assigned to Infiltration missions, if you see one land... ouch.

spocko

2008-02-04, 10:34 PM

hmm, i never had a problem with the alien mission completing until it lifted back off afterwards. but then i never really played on any difficulty past 1 up from easist.

Artanis

2008-02-05, 01:07 AM

If an alien ship lands then its mission succeeds. Yes, even if you raid it during the landing or shoot it down afterwards. And because Battleships are mostly assigned to Infiltration missions, if you see one land... ouch.
I was sure I had stopped some Infiltration missions by taking out the Battleships on the ground.

Telok

2008-02-08, 10:56 AM

Bah humbug!

I've hit a snag, perhaps someone can help me.

Pulling out Xcom again and it's started having a problem. When I need to name a base the game stops taking input from the keyboard. Actually the game may not be taking keyboard input from the start but that's just where I notice it. I am running XP, I did have Xcom working a couple months ago, I do not know what has changed to cause this. I reloaded (and re-downloaded too, Underdogs) to ensure there weren't any corrupted files.

Hmm, I'll dig around on some old hard drives I have to see if I can find an old save. See what that does.

Artanis

2008-02-08, 04:46 PM

Ooh goody, now I can reply again without double-posting! :smallbiggrin:

Aaaaanyways...I've been playing UFO: Alien Invasion, and once you get the hang of it, it is a pretty good game. Well, as good as can be expected for a free game that's still in development, at any rate. The hardest thing to get used to was that, despite all the superficial similarities, UFO:AI plays MUCH differently than X-Com. So differently, in fact, that I would almost (but not quite) decide that it doesn't actually count as a "spiritual successor".

The biggest difference is in the defeat conditions. In UFO:AI, if you let civilians die on the geoscape (which happens if you ignore a terror site long enough) or lose civilians in a failed mission, it adds to a running total. When that total gets big enough, you lose the game. Period. No matter how many aliens you've killed, technologies you've researched, or UFOs you've shot down, when the civvie death count gets too high, it's over.

The flipside of this is twofold. First, civvies killed in successful missions reportedly don't count, so if you keep winning on the ground, you never lose the game. Period. No matter how many of your guys die or actual civilian casualties there are, if you respond to every terror site promptly and victoriously, you literally cannot lose the game unless it comes up with some twist that I haven't seen yet. Second, with victory and defeat no longer (directly) hinging on funding like it was in the original X-Com, you get a truly ridiculous amount of funding from the various nations. Seriously, I had a billion credits in the bank by the fourth or fifth month. And while this was, admittedly, on "easy" difficulty, it was still several orders of magnitude more purchasing power than you'd get on the equivalent difficulty of X-Com. Extrapolate "2-3 orders of magnitude more cash" into whatever difficulty you typically play X-Com on, and you'll get the idea.

On a side note, the tactical interface is pretty nice, but the geoscape and base management interfaces are downright awful :smallfrown: