Half-Orc Barbarians, the walking siege engines of 5E.

[Dr.Samurai]

So this occurred to me during our Avernus game when I wondered if my barbarian could deal some damage to an infernal war machine. I looked at the rules for dealing damage to objects and found something I haven't seen mentioned before, so I figured I'd share just in case.

I think the optimal "build" is as follows:

Step 1: Be a half-orc. This gets you Savage Attacks.
Step 2: Be a barbarian. This gets you Reckless Attack and Brutal Critical.
Step 3: Grab the Great Weapon Master feat. This will get you an extra attack when you crit, and of course the option to Power Attack for more damage.
Step 4: Coat your weapon in Adamantine. This will turn every attack against an object into a critical hit.
Step 5: (Optional) Grab Mason's Tools proficiency and Carpenter's Tools proficiency with your Background. This will let you use the Demolition feature t find a weak spot in the wall for double damage.

So the premise is that simple. Your adamantine weapon auto-crits objects, GWM gives you an extra attack when you crit and more damage through Power Attack, and half-orc and barbarian pack on more crit dice with each attack.

It's a lot of math for my simple brain to take on but I think for resource-less damage, the barbarian beats the fighter. Reckless Attack and Brutal Critical edge out the extra attacks that the fighter gets (math-abled forum goers can correct me here if interested). With resources, fighters obviously have Action Surge and some damage boosts depending on subclass (barbarian subclasses do not add anything to this combo, Battle Master Fighter can use Lunging Attack on objects, Psi Warrior can use their psi-dice); I think fighters blow the barbarian out of the water if they want to unload on an object.

If you wind up picking up a Longsword of Sharpness, wielding it two-handed will wind up doing more damage than power attacking with a greataxe, as you are maximizing each d10, which adds more damage on an attack than the +10 from GWM. There's also the Woodsman's Axe to consider as well against wooden objects.

But that's the gist of it. If you can get Adamantine+GWM you can power attack objects into smithereens.

In the spoiler is the to-hit and damage at level 9, compared to all the objects I could find that had AC/HP stats. I'll edit this post later at other benchmarks (level 13 has max strength and another brutal critical die, level 17 has the third brutal critical die, and level 20 has +4 strength). I didn't include rage damage because I think this might see more use out of combat, but that can be factored in easily enough.

I hope to Crom my math is okay...

Level 9 Assumptions: Strength 18, Great Weapon Master, Adamantine Weapon, Brutal Critical +1

Attack Modifier: +8
4 Proficiency
4 Strength Modifier

Damage on Hit: 4d12+4 (30 average)
4 Strength Modifier
1d12 Base Weapon
1d12 Critical Hit
1d12 Savage Attacks
1d12 Brutal Critical

AC 5
Reckless Attack: 30 x .9975 = 29.93 (89.78 on three attacks)
Reckless Power Attack: 40 x .9975 = 39.9 (119.7 on three attacks)

Items at AC 5

Stone Pillars (Bones of the Earth Spell)
HP: 30 (destroyed in 1 hit)

AC 12
Reckless Attack: 30 x .9775 = 29.33 (87.98 on three attacks)
Reckless Power Attack: 40 x .8 = 33.6 (100.8 on three attacks)

Items at AC 12

Keelboat Helm
HP: 50 (destroyed in 1 turn, ship can't turn)

Ship Oars
HP: 100 (destroyed in 1 turn, -5ft speed per 25 damage)

Ship Sails
HP: 100 (destroyed in 1 turn, -10ft speed per 25 damage)

Rowboat (actually at AC 11)
HP: 50 (destroyed 1 turn)

AC 13
Reckless Attack: .96 x 30 = 28.8 (86.4 on three attacks)
Reckless Power Attack: .7975 x 40 = 31.9 (95.7 on three attacks)

Items at AC 13

Airship (Vehicle)
HP 300 (destroyed in 4 turns)

Wall Section (Wall of Ice Spell)
HP: 30 (destroyed in 1 hit)


AC 15
Reckless Attack - .91 x 30 = 27.3 (81.9 on three attacks)
Reckless Power Attack - .6975 x 40 = 27.9 (83.7 on three attacks)

Items at AC 15

Ram (Siege Equipment)
HP: 100 (destroyed in 2 turns)

Mangonel (Siege Equipment)
HP: 100 (destroyed in 2 turns)

Ballista (Siege Equipment)
HP: 50 (destroyed in 1 turn)

Trebuchet (Siege Equipment)
HP: 150 (destroyed in 2 turns)

Siege Tower (Siege Equipment)
HP: 200 (destroyed in 3 turns)

Warship Hull
HP: 500 (destroyed in 6 turns)
Threshold: 20 (surpassed)

Sailing Ship Hull
HP: 300 (destroyed in 4 turns)
Threshold: 15 (surpassed)

Longship Hull
HP: 300 (destroyed in 4 turns)
Threshold: 15 (surpassed)

Keelboat Hull
HP: 100 (destroyed in 2 turns)
Threshold: 10 (surpassed)

Galley Hull
HP: 500 (destroyed in 6 turns)
Threshold: 20 (surpassed)

Stone Wall Panels (Mighty Fortress Spell)
HP: 360 (destroyed in 5 turns)

Stone Panels @ 6 inches thick (Wall of Stone Spell)
HP: 180 (destroyed in 3 turns)

Stone Panels @ 3 inches thick (Wall of Stone Spell)
HP: 90 (destroyed in 2 turns)

Rock (Transmute Rock Spell)
HP: 25 (destroyed in 1 hit)

AC 16
Reckless Attack: 30 x .8775 = 26.33 (78.98 on three attacks)
Reckless Power Attack: 40 x .64 = 25.6 (76.8 on three attacks)

Items at AC 16

Longship Helm
HP: 50 (destroyed in 1 turn, ship can't turn)

Galley Helm
HP: 50 (destroyed in 1 turn, ship can't turn)


AC 18
Reckless Attack: 30 x .7975 = 23.93 (71.78 on three attacks)
Reckless Power Attack: 40 x .51 = 20.4 (61.2 on three attacks)

Items at AC 18

Warship Helm
HP: 50 (destroyed in 1 turn, ship can't turn)

Sailing Ship Helm
HP: 50 (destroyed in 1 turn, ship can't turn)


AC 19
Reckless Attack: 30 x .75 = 22.5 (67.5 on three attacks)
Reckless Power Attack: 40 x .4375 = 17.5 (52.5 on three attacks)

Objects at AC 19

Tormentor (Infernal War Machine, motionless)
Damage Threshold: 10 (surpassed)
Mishap Threshold: 20 (surpassed, roll for mishap)
HP: 60 (destroyed in 1 turn)

Scavenger (Infernal War Machine, motionless)
Damage Threshold: 10 (surpassed)
Mishap Threshold: 20 (surpassed, roll for mishap)
HP: 150 (destroyed in 3 turns)

Devil's Ride (Infernal War Machine, motionless)
Damage Threshold: 5 (surpassed)
Mishap Threshold: 10 (surpassed, roll for mishap)
HP: 30 (destroyed in 1 hit)

Demon Grinder (Infernal War Machine)
Damage Threshold: 10 (surpassed)
Mishap Threshold: 20 (surpassed, roll for mishap)
HP: 200 (destroyed in 3 turns)

Cannon (Siege Equipment)
HP: 75 (destroyed in 2 turns)

AC 20
Reckless Attack: 30 x .6975 = 20.93 (62.78 on three attacks)
Reckless Power Attack: 40 x .36 = 14.4 (43.2 on three attacks)

Items at AC 20

Apparatus of Kwalish
HP: 200 (destroyed in 4 turns)

Scavenger (Infernal War Machine, In Motion)
Damage Threshold: 10 (surpassed)
Mishap Threshold: 20 (surpassed, roll for mishap)
HP: 150 (destroyed in 3 turns)

AC 21 - As per DMG, this generally assumes Mithral items.
Reckless Attack: 30 x .64 = 19.2 damage (57.6 on three attacks)
Reckless Power Attack: 40 x .2775 = 11.1 damage (33.3 on three attacks)

Items at AC 21

Tormentor (Infernal War Machine, In Motion)
Damage Threshold: 10 (surpassed)
Mishap Threshold: 20 (surpassed, roll for mishap)
HP: 60 (destroyed in 2 turns)

AC 23 - As oer DMG, this generally assumes Adamantine items.
Reckless Attack: 30 x .51 = 15.3 damage (45.9 on three attacks)
Reckless Power Attack: 40 x .0975 = 3.9 (11.7 over three attacks)

Items at AC 23

Devil's Ride (Infernal War Machine, In Motion)
Damage Threshold: 5 (surpassed)
Mishap Threshold: 10 (surpassed, roll for mishap)
HP: 30 (destroyed in 1 turn w/o Power Attack)

[strangebloke]

Seems like it adds up. Looks like a lot of fun, and optimizing for this sort of admittedly niche sort of thing is the best way to play, at least imo.

[Yakmala]

Since you can add adamantine to magical weapons, get yourself an adamantine flame tongue to add another 4d6 extra damage to your already big auto-crits against objects.

[Dr.Samurai]

Seems like it adds up. Looks like a lot of fun, and optimizing for this sort of admittedly niche sort of thing is the best way to play, at least imo.
I agree. The great thing is that for many barbarians, you're already grabbing Great Weapon Master, so you just need to get your hands on some Adamantine.

Half-orc is less a given, but still common enough. A half-orc barbarian was my first long term campaign character ever back in 3rd edition.


Since you can add adamantine to magical weapons, get yourself an adamantine flame tongue to add another 4d6 extra damage to your already big auto-crits against objects.
This is true, though it also depends on how the DM rules it. The rules for damaging objects are pretty wide open. I can see a Flametongue in the hands of a demolitionist doing serious damage to wooden objects, but I could see a DM ruling that against a stone wall or something similar the fire doesn't harm it.

[strangebloke]

I agree. The great thing is that for many barbarians, you're already grabbing Great Weapon Master, so you just need to get your hands on some Adamantine.

Half-orc is less a given, but still common enough. A half-orc barbarian was my first long term campaign character ever back in 3rd edition.


All I would really say here is that this sort of thing is less useful for sieges, and more useful for "creative" dungeoneering. If you've ever played Monaco, imagine your half-orc adamantine maul user as the "sapper."

True story: I ran a one-shot with pre-built characters. Half orc zealot with adamantine maul was one of the options, and the players who used it loved it since I intentionally put a lot of locked doors and breakable walls in the dungeon. Everyone at the table got a big smile whenever the barbarian cast "walk through walls."

[Dr.Samurai]

I agree 100% and I'm not surprised your players enjoyed it :smallbiggrin:. I would love to play a character like this wrecking his way through an old ruin or dungeon. I love the idea of monsters throughout the dungeon flinching wondering what lethal threat is coming their way as opposed to the other way around.

There aren't really hard stats for dungeon walls, so I included everything else I could find. I figure if you can demolish an infernal war machine in a matter of seconds, you can probably take down a section of stone wall :smallcool:

[sandmote]

I really like the idea from a player perspective, and the fact the build is relatively easy is a nice bonus.

From a DM perspective though, I think you'd need an explanation of why every half-orc isn't running around breaking into every vault in the land. For that purpose I'd say that soil, sand, or similar cheap filling you could dump into a wall has an incredibly high damage threshold, on the basis that a hole at the bottom of a wall filled with these materials would simply see the material above it fill in the space left as material nearest the hole in the rock is removed.

I'll assume 5 foot thick walls for a proper castle. Both Wall of Stone and Mighty Fortress list stone as having 30 hit points per inch. Therefore an AC 15 stone wall 5 feet thick has 1800 hit points and takes (assuming the math of an average of 83.7 damage per turn is correct) 22 turns to break through. Meanwhile a 5 foot wall with 6 inch thick bricks enclosing a filling of sand or soil requires (as listed by OP) 3 turns to reach the cheap, already broken, flowing filling.

So the method for keeping such a PC from breaking their way into every guarded location in the world isn't horrifically punishing: you'd want to double check where you should try breaking in, but it is theoretically possible to find out you chose the wrong location to break into before guards arrive.

Still leaves some awkwardness if someone grabs the magic initiate feat for the Move Earth cantrip, but hopefully strong enough that this concept doesn't tear apart all semblances of coherence in a world where this build is possible.

[strangebloke]

I agree 100% and I'm not surprised your players enjoyed it :smallbiggrin:. I would love to play a character like this wrecking his way through an old ruin or dungeon. I love the idea of monsters throughout the dungeon flinching wondering what lethal threat is coming their way as opposed to the other way around.

There aren't really hard stats for dungeon walls, so I included everything else I could find. I figure if you can demolish an infernal war machine in a matter of seconds, you can probably take down a section of stone wall :smallcool:
Yeah, as a DM you need to impose some reasonable limits. A "wall" thats ten feet thick or more is going to take a long time to clear simply because you have to remove the material, if nothing else, and there might be other problems, like collapsing the ruin or flooding the room you're in.

At a bare minimum, all pretense of stealth goes out the window when you start smashing the wall, and every monster within a thousand feet will jump you all at once.

I really like the idea from a player perspective, and the fact the build is relatively easy is a nice bonus.

From a DM perspective though, I think you'd need an explanation of why every half-orc isn't running around breaking into every vault in the land. For that purpose I'd say that soil, sand, or similar cheap filling you could dump into a wall has an incredibly high damage threshold, on the basis that a hole at the bottom of a wall filled with these materials would simply see the material above it fill in the space left as material nearest the hole in the rock is removed.

I'll assume 5 foot thick walls for a proper castle. Both Wall of Stone and Mighty Fortress list stone as having 30 hit points per inch. Therefore an AC 15 stone wall 5 feet thick has 1800 hit points and takes (assuming the math of an average of 83.7 damage per turn is correct) 22 turns to break through. Meanwhile a 5 foot wall with 6 inch thick bricks enclosing a filling of sand or soil requires (as listed by OP) 3 turns to reach the cheap, already broken, flowing filling.

So the method for keeping such a PC from breaking their way into every guarded location in the world isn't horrifically punishing: you'd want to double check where you should try breaking in, but it is theoretically possible to find out you chose the wrong location to break into before guards arrive.

Still leaves some awkwardness if someone grabs the magic initiate feat for the Move Earth cantrip, but hopefully strong enough that this concept doesn't tear apart all semblances of coherence in a world where this build is possible.
Well, I don't think its a "problem" that an adamantine maul lets you pull off tricks like this. After all, you can do similar things with powerful drills and explosives in our world, but you don't exactly see people trying that too often do you? The equipment is expensive and specialized and there just aren't many people with the skill, resources, and inclination to try to pull this off even if it was theoretically possible. An adamantine weapon is an expensive piece of kit, and a 5th level PC is a skilled and rare individual.

With that said though, I think everything you're saying is reasonable. Not every wall should be breakable. Something on the order of a brick wall should be trivial for a normal maul, while something like a solid stone wall might take several minutes to get through.

[Dr.Samurai]

From a DM perspective though, I think you'd need an explanation of why every half-orc isn't running around breaking into every vault in the land.
Well, I think it's an understanding between DM and players that the player isn't going to go around trying to break down every wall.

At the higher levels, you can take a ship down in 1 turn, which is just cool to imagine. Sort of like an anime-style one powerful swing that splits the ship in half lol.

As a player, I would definitely reserve this to last resort or rule of cool type stuff.

[Phhase]

I'm currently playing an excellent Githyanki artificer with loads of tool proficiences whom I've specced for demolition. It's excellent, I use a dip into Transmutation Wizard to turn parts of objects into other materials in order to create or increase weak points. Plus, I can target individual support beams and bricks with Reduce in order to tear them out immediately. This plus bombs makes for a spicy combo, and I relish environmental combat.

Despite all that, I didn't even know about that Demolition feature! Glad to know I should in fact be doing double damage.