What is the worth of a feat compared to hp?

[KyleG]

So i have a decision to make and it requires answering this...what is the value of HP.
MY 20AC monk could respec slightly and go from 114hp to 101hp but with the crusher feat. Is that a good trade off everything else being equal? By the end of the campaign this would have been a trade off of 20hp for the feat

[solidork]

What are you hoping to get out of Crusher? Do you want the forced movement as a sort of free disengage? Do you have allies that create battlefield hazards you can knock people into? Are you benefiting at all from the half feat nature of it?

[diplomancer]

So, here's the thing about half feats; they're only worth it if you're evening up a score, or at least planning to even it up later.

So if this is a case of switching from a +2 Con to Crusher from an even Con, I'd say it's not worth it, at least not without planning to even it up later.

If on the other hand you're switching from Tough and an odd Con to Crusher (and an even Con), though it'd have the same "hit point deficit", I'd say it's totally worth it.

[J-H]

An ASI is worth is worth 20 HP and +1 to a major save (+2 CON) plus better Concentration
or it's worth 40hp with no side benefits (Tough feat)

I do like the Crusher feat on monks. Free crowd control every turn.

[CapnWildefyr]

Two questions:
1. What kind of monk are you? (OH, AA, etc) OA for example gives you some ability to push people around, although they get a save. Anyway be sure to only consider what crusher is giving you that you do not already have.
2. In your games, how often do you get hammered like a nail, down to a handful of HP left? If you're all the time going down to very low hp, I'd go for hp.

[Dork_Forge]

What subclass?

I'm a little confused, have you been rolling well for HP? The deficit would indicate that you're a 13th level Monk, but average hp would have you sitting at 68+Con, which would mean your Con would currently be sitting at 3.5ish?

My personal vote leans towards the HP, in higher levels your AC isn't going to matter that much when the monsters are hitting for a +10 and above, but hit points cover all sins.

[KyleG]

Im an OH monk with the opportunity to respec because of story reasons as we enter level 13. Currently have a 16 in con but respec (incl half feat) would make it 14. A respectable 20 AC which will go to 21 at lvl 16 and 22 at lvl 19 unless i give up the cloak of protection at some point.

[Willie the Duck]

An ASI is worth is worth 20 HP and +1 to a major save (+2 CON) plus better Concentration
or it's worth 40hp with no side benefits (Tough feat).
That's what you can exchange for an ASI, whether it is worth that, I'm not so sure. :smalltongue:

Honestly, I think it depends on whether you mean you are going down from a baseline/expected norm, or contemplating either going up in HP or getting the feat. It also depends on how one has experienced a monk in the past -- have you found them HP-limited (as in, you find yourself not doing the cool thing because you're worried about them dropping if things go wrong) or not? All the cool powers in the world don't matter if you don't feel comfortable utilizing them.

[Tanarii]

An ASI is worth is worth 20 HP and +1 to a major save (+2 CON) plus better Concentration
or it's worth 40hp with no side benefits (Tough feat)
Con is worth 1 hp/level up front and 1 hp/level in HD healing, as well as +1 to Con check and Con saves.
Tough is worth 2 hp/level up front.

If you use all your HD to heal in an adventuring day, and don't every drop below 1hp/level during the day, Con is flat out worth more than Tough.

[Dork_Forge]

Con is worth 1 hp/level up front and 1 hp/level in HD healing, as well as +1 to Con check and Con saves.
Tough is worth 2 hp/level up front.

If you use all your HD to heal in an adventuring day, and don't every drop below 1hp/level during the day, Con is flat out worth more than Tough.

So some points on this:

-How often are PCs not taking at least their level in damage at some point? That is an extremely low bar to clear

-If you use all of your HD in a day to heal, it has been a very, very bad day and is the start of a bad slippery slope unless you can get a full day off soon.

Tough is worth more for your actual hit points, if you want a higher max, it's just better. More hit points cover bad luck, unexpected events etc. As long as you understand that the extra hit points aren't covered in the SR base healing as a down side, the difference is pretty clearcut, i you want better saves to take Con, you want more HP take Tough. That downside only even applies if you're extremely low on hp when you rest and roll below average/average on your HD a.k.a it applies inconsistently and can be largely nullified by Bards and Chefs.

[KorvinStarmast]

So i have a decision to make and it requires answering this...what is the value of HP.
MY 20AC monk could respec slightly and go from 114hp to 101hp but with the crusher feat. Is that a good trade off everything else being equal? By the end of the campaign this would have been a trade off of 20hp for the feat If you take the Alert feat, rather than raising CON beyond 14,
(1) you cannot be surprised,
(2) you are not attacked at advantage by invisible/hidden opponents,
(3) you get +5 to Initiative (you already have a high Dex)
which means that you strike first more often and thus you may stun more often before damage may be done.

I'd think that avoiding damage beats having more HP for the monsters to grind through.

A different way to view your problem, to be sure, but it is a build that I've used on high level monks in one-shots.

If we assume point buy, level 13, take Alert at level 12. You should have an 18 Dex and an 18 Wis by then.

[KyleG]

That's what you can exchange for an ASI, whether it is worth that, I'm not so sure. :smalltongue:

Honestly, I think it depends on whether you mean you are going down from a baseline/expected norm, or contemplating either going up in HP or getting the feat. It also depends on how one has experienced a monk in the past -- have you found them HP-limited (as in, you find yourself not doing the cool thing because you're worried about them dropping if things go wrong) or not? All the cool powers in the world don't matter if you don't feel comfortable utilizing them.

I like this idea and ran with it.
Cuurrent hp is 114. That comes from con +3 contributing 39 and level ups 75. The average for level ups is 65 so I'm ahead of the game.
With the +2 con id only be down on the +3 average by 3. And id still be higher than the average of having +2 which is 91.
In this case it might be a worth while trade.

[Quietus]

I like this idea and ran with it.
Cuurrent hp is 114. That comes from con +3 contributing 39 and level ups 75. The average for level ups is 65 so I'm ahead of the game.
With the +2 con id only be down on the +3 average by 3. And id still be higher than the average of having +2 which is 91.
In this case it might be a worth while trade.

I'd look at it this way - you're losing 13 HP. At level 13, odds are anything that hits you with an attack would do at least that much damage. Which makes the question, will the Crusher feat allow you to avoid at least one attack's worth of damage per adventuring day? If so, then for your character at least, it will be worthwhile.

Also consider that any enemy you are able to avoid a hit from via Crusher, will likely just redirect that attack to your party. Will that attack be redirected to someone more squishy than you, or will it be directed to a frontline tank who can take it better than you?