Detect Magic in a sense

[Burley]

So, while noodling a new character concept (a warlock whose patron took their sight as payment), I got to thinking about Blindness, targeting and Detect Magic.

So, I'll start with Detect Magic: It says that you "sense" the presence of magic, but that you "see a faint aura." Would a blind character (either by Blindness/Deafness or a more permanent blindness) be unable to benefit from Detect Magic at all, be unable to use an action to focus (for inability to "see"), or have full benefits of the spell and sense the magic in other ways? (I was thinking they'd hear a hum at different frequencies, or there'd be different smells. My partner gave me the idea that you feel magic radiate like you feel heat radiate, which got me thinking of how you could feel different kinds of heat. A real existential "What are our senses even?" kind of night on the sofa.)

So, if a warlock is blind and has at-will Detect Magic (via Eldritch Sight), would they be able to target a creature wearing a magic item? Presumably, an attack would still be made at disadvantage because of the Blind status effect. But, what if they've spent an action to focus, "seeing" the aura that outlines the creature? Would they still be "blind" to the target's location?

How about this? Blindness gives disadvantage on attacks, but it doesn't stop you from accurately targeting an enemy. If the warlock casts Faerie Fire, they could still drop the spell right on top of their target, yes? And, assuming the target whiffs the Dex save, they're glowing neon now and grant advantage to any creature who can "see" the target. Would Detect Magic be able to detect this magical outline enough to "see" the target and gain advantage, thereby cancelling out the Blindness disadvantage?

It's a lot of preamble to shoot a Eldritch Blast with neither advantage or disadvantage, I know. But, if you're able to sense something magically, how tied to the word "see" must we be?

[JackPhoenix]

You only can see the aura around VISIBLE creatures and objects if you use an action, so blind character would be able to sense the presence of magic, but not to see the auras.

[Segev]

I would, if you have a sense by which you can count-as-seeing them, let you use that sense. Maybe, if you're actually blind and getting no benefits from it that would make this a buff, evne let you pick a sense to sense it with. Maybe you smell them. Or hear them.

[Psyren]

Usual disclaimer - RAW is a starting point, if you have a fun concept that doesn't neatly fit within the rules work with your DM, yadda yadda.

To answer your questions:


So, while noodling a new character concept (a warlock whose patron took their sight as payment), I got to thinking about Blindness, targeting and Detect Magic.

So, I'll start with Detect Magic: It says that you "sense" the presence of magic, but that you "see a faint aura." Would a blind character (either by Blindness/Deafness or a more permanent blindness) be unable to benefit from Detect Magic at all, be unable to use an action to focus (for inability to "see"), or have full benefits of the spell and sense the magic in other ways? (I was thinking they'd hear a hum at different frequencies, or there'd be different smells. My partner gave me the idea that you feel magic radiate like you feel heat radiate, which got me thinking of how you could feel different kinds of heat. A real existential "What are our senses even?" kind of night on the sofa.)

So, if a warlock is blind and has at-will Detect Magic (via Eldritch Sight), would they be able to target a creature wearing a magic item? Presumably, an attack would still be made at disadvantage because of the Blind status effect. But, what if they've spent an action to focus, "seeing" the aura that outlines the creature? Would they still be "blind" to the target's location?

Detect Magic does two things:

1) Sense presence of magic within 30ft (no sight required).
2) Use your action to see a faint aura around a visible creature/object and learn the magic's school (requires sight as written.)

So as written, if you're blind you can benefit from the first part but not the second. Eldritch Sight lets you cast the spell at-will but does nothing to override the requirements in #2.



How about this? Blindness gives disadvantage on attacks, but it doesn't stop you from accurately targeting an enemy. If the warlock casts Faerie Fire, they could still drop the spell right on top of their target, yes? And, assuming the target whiffs the Dex save, they're glowing neon now and grant advantage to any creature who can "see" the target. Would Detect Magic be able to detect this magical outline enough to "see" the target and gain advantage, thereby cancelling out the Blindness disadvantage?

1) Faerie Fire does not target a creature, rather it's a cube that you place on a point in space. If you can designate the location where you want to place the effect and it is within range, you can do so; seeing that location is not required as written. (For example, you could place FF "30ft to my right" if you suspected a creature you couldn't see was there, using your other senses like hearing to glean this information.)

2) While you can designate a place for the spell to take effect, obstacles can still be a factor. PHB 204: "If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of the obstruction." For example, if you hear a creature behind a closed door and try to Faerie Fire it, your Faerie Fire will come into being on your side of the closed door.

3) Faerie Fire wouldn't help you with detect magic beyond being able to sense that your spell effect is active if they are within 30ft. First of all, the creature is no more visible to you when glowing than they were when they weren't glowing - you're still blind. Second, the "advantage" effect of faerie fire only benefits you if you can see the target, so you aren't even able to cancel out the disadvantage from attacking something you can't see. If the enemy is invisible you would defeat that, but that would only benefit your allies - as you are blind, them being invisible was already irrelevant.

[Burley]

Usual disclaimer - RAW is a starting point, if you have a fun concept that doesn't neatly fit within the rules work with your DM, yadda yadda.

To answer your questions:



Detect Magic does two things:

1) Sense presence of magic within 30ft (no sight required).
2) Use your action to see a faint aura around a visible creature/object and learn the magic's school (requires sight as written.)

So as written, if you're blind you can benefit from the first part but not the second. Eldritch Sight lets you cast the spell at-will but does nothing to override the requirements in #2.



1) Faerie Fire does not target a creature, rather it's a cube that you place on a point in space. If you can designate the location where you want to place the effect and it is within range, you can do so; seeing that location is not required as written. (For example, you could place FF "30ft to my right" if you suspected a creature you couldn't see was there, using your other senses like hearing to glean this information.)

2) While you can designate a place for the spell to take effect, obstacles can still be a factor. PHB 204: "If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of the obstruction." For example, if you hear a creature behind a closed door and try to Faerie Fire it, your Faerie Fire will come into being on your side of the closed door.

3) Faerie Fire wouldn't help you with detect magic beyond being able to sense that your spell effect is active if they are within 30ft. First of all, the creature is no more visible to you when glowing than they were when they weren't glowing - you're still blind. Second, the "advantage" effect of faerie fire only benefits you if you can see the target, so you aren't even able to cancel out the disadvantage from attacking something you can't see. If the enemy is invisible you would defeat that, but that would only benefit your allies - as you are blind, them being invisible was already irrelevant.

So, your reading of Detect Magic, when you sense the presence of magic, it is only a "yes or no?" There's no direction or distance, just whether there is or isn't magic? I know, RAW, it doesn't say either way, but I've always assumed the point of spending an action to focus is to learn the school of the magic, not its location.
I guess, by omission, it is binary, since Detect Evil and Good says you detect it and know its location. Kinda frustrating that, though they're the same spell level, Detect E&G is a league better than Detect Magic, giving immediate knowledge and location of even a non-visible object/creature.

[Psyren]

So, your reading of Detect Magic, when you sense the presence of magic, it is only a "yes or no?" There's no direction or distance, just whether there is or isn't magic? I know, RAW, it doesn't say either way, but I've always assumed the point of spending an action to focus is to learn the school of the magic, not its location.
I guess, by omission, it is binary, since Detect Evil and Good says you detect it and know its location. Kinda frustrating that, though they're the same spell level, Detect E&G is a league better than Detect Magic, giving immediate knowledge and location of even a non-visible object/creature.

I can't speak to whether the designers intended this or not - but yes, Detect Magic and Detect Evil & Good have different rules text. DEG has the line about knowing the location without seeing it, DM doesn't.

Again, that's just a starting point. When you cast the spell, see what your DM tells you - and if they don't give you the location of the aura, simply ask "do I know where it is?"

[Burley]

Again, that's just a starting point. When you cast the spell, see what your DM tells you - and if they don't give you the location of the aura, simply ask "do I know where it is?"

If my DM gets more questions from me about a theory craft character, his eyes will roll out of his ears. :smalltongue:

Ideas like these are why he and I started a podcast: So I'd have other people to bother with my goofy ideas.

[TheBrassDuke]

SNIP


“For the Duration, you sense the presence of magic within 30 feet of you. If you sense magic in this way, you can use your Action to see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic, and you learn its school of magic, if any.

The spell can penetrate most barriers, but is blocked by 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of Common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt.”

I would argue that a) because the spell doesn’t say that the blind do not benefit from this spell, and b) the spell is, well, a magical spell and explicitly allows you to see these auras per RAW, that you could. But it’s semantics.

[Chronos]

As written, the first round of Detect Magic just gets you a yes or no. Which, yes, is usually pretty useless in practice, because the answer will almost always be yes, if you or any party-members within 30' have any magic items or active spells.

And yes, different detection spells give different information. Detect Evil and Good gives you location right away. Detect Magic only gives you location if you spend another action on it, and only for visible things. Detect Thoughts never actually gives any location more specific than "somewhere in range". To which there is no further explanation than "they're different".