Appropriate Levels for Soldiers in Your Game

[Crow]

I was just curious, because I know this varies wildly between different DM's and their games.

What level and class do you generally use for common soldiers in your games? When an massive orc army is marching across the plains and a noble coalition is drawn up to defeat them, what level is the average guy on that battlefield?

Please provide details as to why you stat them a certain way. I'll go first.

For most armies I classify soldiers as Warriors, unless they come from a "professional" standing army. Similarly, scouts and such get classified as Experts. The reason for this is that most soldiers in my gameworld don't train constantly at fighting like someone from the Fighter class would. They live with their families, and though fighting men, may work their farms in peacetime, until they are called up. Experts may be woodsmen in times of peace as well. This can hold for "barbarian" armies as well. Every able-bodies man is capable of fighting, but it is by no means their only job. The Barbarian class gets applied in special cases, like berserkers and such. The "professionals", like Knights and Legionnaires, whose only job is the army or have signifigant focus in training to march and fight, get to be Fighters or other appropriate classes.

As for level, I have struggled with this for a while. Mostly my decision came down to what classes are capable of doing when they reach certain levels, and how that would affect a battlefield. I currently use the following;

Main body of troops, "average" soldier, none or some experience: 1st level
Veteran troops, well-trained or more experienced: 2nd level
Elite troops, highly trained or very experienced: 3rd level

I chose 3rd level as the top-out for the elite troops because really, when you think about the superhuman level of ability this entails, it really makes no sense to go much higher. Just think of the Scout, who can walk over soft mud at full speed and leave no tracks at this point. A 3rd level Fighter has a very good chance of taking down multiple 1st level Warriors (even a 3rd level Warrior has this possibility).

Still, their level isn't so high as to make them unkillable either. A lucky shot by someone at 1st level can still take down or severely injure a soldier that is 3rd level. This preserves the "feel" I like for my D&D battlefields, where high-level magic is uncommon, and battles are still risky affairs.

That isn't to say there is no place for the high-level character on my battlefield, but unless they are the PC's, they usually take the form of a Dynasty Warriors-esque general or captain and his bodyguards. A high level fighter may hold a bridge all by himself until a group of men (or PC's) manages to take him down, or a high level wizard may decimate a unit of men-at-arms with a cloudkill unless someone stops him. By no means are such powerful characters common on the battlefield though.

So, what do other DM's out there do when it comes to this topic?

[Sofaking]

Well a fun thing I did with our group once was I used the game pieces from risk and had the PCs command their army across a battle field I drew up. I gave the different colors and pieces different jobs and abilities. It was a high vs low dice game, and when the PCs reached critical points we went back down to the standard game with miniatures.

[Shishnarfne]

I did something similar with soldier levels running about 2-5 (I think I had a bunch of level 1-2 conscripts, up to more elite soldiers of about fifth level). I also had a number of similarly leveled bandits... and my players (level 4 heavy cavalry IIRC) plowed right through similarly sized groups of opposition.

I'd say, base it off of the level of the party, to make it interesting. A random average soldier should not be a challenge to a single party member, but should have a decent chance to hit them. A few elite soldiers working together should be able to bring down a PC unless he gets help, so I'd put elite soldiers at maybe party ECL-2 to party ECL-4.

Of course, I'd suggest that the bulk of soldiers should (under any situation) be limited to one attack per round to reduce die-rolling headaches, so level 5 seems reasonable for the upper levels of the common soldiers.

[Dhavaer]

The only time I actually worked out an army, character by character, most of the soldiers were Fighters, Duskblades and Warmages.

[Darth Mario]

As unrealistic as having soldiers over level 3 is, I usually base level off that of the party. Rank and file have Party Level - 6 or 1, whichever is higher, and elites have Party Level - 3 or 3, whichever is higher. I tend to run lower level games, but when I run higher level ones, I don't want my players to be able to simply wade into the middle of a battle and expect to not only survive, but cut a one-man-wide path through the opposing army. Unless it's just them vs. gigantic opposing force.

[ocato]

Personally, I like your set up. It seems fair. I personally would allow for a little more in the area of character classes, depending on the army. Typically, if it is culturally relevant for a nation/group to have specialized troops, they will be L1 warrior and L1 of the class. For example, in one setting I worked on, there was an army of barbarics who mostly pillaged. The L1 masses were L1 warriors, the 'veteren' troops were Warrior 1/Barbarian 1 or Warrior 1/Fighter 1, and the Commanders or special specials would be straight up Barbarians or fighters, usually L2. One of the main strengths of this army was a corps of troops called the 'drumbums', who were Level 1 bards and marched along with the armies inspiring courage with war drums. Of course, reoccuring NPCs (ranked at or near PC level of power) get the all important L5.

That's my 2cp.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

The DMG puts conscripts down as level 1 commoners with some ineffective kit, and relatively well trained soldiers as 1st level warriors [page 133].

I stick with that except for special elite units, which have 3rd level warriors, with actual Fighter or other appropriate PC-classed officers as leaders. You might make up a special commando corps of 1st Level Rangers, or a Temple Guard of 1st Level Clerics, for example.
I'd tend to go for PC class levels to reflect specialisation, but never put my rank and file grunt squaddies over 3rd level.

[Matthew]

Generally, the rank and file are Warrior 1, with Veterans moving up to Warrior 2 or 3. I also use Experts as Scouts, and mix in Aristocrat where appropriate.

Fighters occur in a ratio of approximately 9:1 or more. However, I'm quite happy to give NPCs Attribute Points, Bonus Feats and Skill Points.

So something like:



Roman Infantry
Warrior 1, AB 1(3), AC 19, HP 6,
Attributes: Strength 12, Dexterity 12, Constitution 12, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 10, Charisma 10,
Feats: Weapon Focus (Roman), Shield Specialisation (Roman),
Skills: Climb 4(5), Jump 4(5), Swim 4(5),
Equipment: Two Javelins (1D6+1), Heavy Shield (+2 AC), Short Sword (1D6+1), Dagger (1D4+1), Medium Armour (+5 AC),




Roman Cavalry
Warrior 1, AB 1(3), AC 19, HP 6,
Attributes: Strength 12, Dexterity 12, Constitution 12, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 10, Charisma 10,
Feats: Weapon Focus (Roman), Shield Specialisation (Roman), Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack,
Skills: Climb 4(5), Jump 4(5), Ride 4(5), Swim 4(5),
Equipment: Spear (1D8+1), Heavy Shield (+2 AC), Long Sword (1D8+1), Dagger (1D4+1), Medium Armour (+5 AC),

[Sleet]

I'll make conscripts 1st level commoners. Take out a couple and the rest run unless their sergeant or captain pulls off a leadership check.

Professional soldiers or mercenaries are warriors, usually levels 1-3. Sergeants, I might make lower level fighters (if young) or higher level warriors (if older). Scouts and skirmishers are experts, rangers, scouts, or rogues levels 2 or 3. Officers, captains, lords, or other leaders I stat out purely based on how much of a challenge I want them to present to the PCs.

[Emperor Tippy]

I've run games where your average solider is a level 1 peasant commoner with a club and the most elite soldiers are level 7 or so. And others where every soldier on the field of battle is a Warforged with at least 15 levels in a combat class and with well over 300,000 GP worth of gear.

I'm running a game now where you aren't considered properly trained until you reach level 20 in a PC class. Every recruit faces 4 equal CR encounters per day. So they reach level 20 in under 3 years. Your average farmer has at least 30 levels in an NPC class or 25 levels in a PC class.

------
The appropriate level for soldiers really depends on the power level of your world and what kind of game you are playing.

[J.Gellert]

I usually make infantry in a standing army level 2, or 3 for more elite troops. Commanders up to 5...

I do not have much love for level 1, but that's what I use for hardened conscripts that have not had any real battle experience at all.

I wonder what the CR (and experience reward) is for surviving a large-scale battle (even if you do not actually kill any enemies).

[Old_Man]

Green Troops – 1st lvl
Example: recruits, conscripts, draftees, lieutenants, ensigns

Regular Troops – 3rd lvl
Example: soldiers, scouts, sappers, sailors, marines, engineers, captains

Veteran Troops – 5th to 7th lvl
Example: hardened soldiers, sergeants, petty officers, generals, admirals

Elite Troops – 5th lvl + (based on party lvl)
Example: elite soldiers, assassins, specialists, special operations


Butterbars are green. ;)

[daggaz]

In a party-centric game, the soldiers are whatever level they need to be to interact with the players in the right way. Need to be killable? Lower level. Need to be a believable force, but no great ally in battle? Slightly lower to equal level. Need to put the fear into the party? Higher level. All of it also depending on how many soldiers...

In a campaignworld-centric game, most professional soldiers are between level 1 and 3, with a few lieutenants and other officers making it up the ranks to 4, 5, and 6. After that, they become more like iconic leaders than just footsoldiers..

[Neon Knight]

Green Troops – 1st lvl
Example: recruits, conscripts, draftees, lieutenants, ensigns

Regular Troops – 3rd lvl
Example: soldiers, scouts, sappers, sailors, marines, engineers, captains

Veteran Troops – 5th to 7th lvl
Example: hardened soldiers, sergeants, petty officers, generals, admirals

Elite Troops – 5th lvl + (based on party lvl)
Example: elite soldiers, assassins, specialists, special operations


Butterbars are green. ;)

This is what I do, essentially. Green 1-2. Regular 3-4. Veteran/Elite 5-6. Anything beyond that is probably a legendary leader or champion.

[Mr.Moron]

One way might be to just generate the army as population of the same size. It makes a certain amount of sense, any army must be drawn from the general population, so the army will reflect that population. I was generating a 5,000-man army to test the concept for the post, and liked what I saw. However about halfway through organizing when I realized it was slightly more work than I wanted to do for one post.

The structure was pretty usable though. There was enough "Big Guns" to keep a single mid-level party from decimating the entire thing on their own. There were still a few things that stood out as decent challenges for parties of about Level 9 and below. Of course the overwhelming majority was still Level-1 Cannon fodder Commoner Conscripts, 4442 of them to be exact.

[Prometheus]

I typically distinguish between soldiers, commanders, and guards.
Soldiers are typically 1st through 3rd level (usually Warriors, Fighters, Barbarians, or Rangers), depending on the intensity of the conflict and the quality of the recruits. These are usually in a countless number.
Commanders are the most powerful types of soldiers in an encounter. Instead of being capped by level, they are usually capped by quantity. Usually I will level-adjusted them to be the level of players or two or three levels less.
Guards vary wildly depending on what they are guarding and how big of an army that they are drawn from. They are most certainly above the level of Soldiers, but hardly ever represent the level of Commanders (unless they are a very very important bodyguard) typically ranging from about 3rd to 7th level.

In general though, I try not to use levels as a measure of an armies power, and instead rely on one of three methods:
a) Savage species. Even small army of hill giants with one or two warrior levels seems much more likely than a similar number of 8th level fighters.
b) Magic items. A kingdom is much more likely to have a surplus of wealth than a surplus of experience - this definitely represents the technology vs. militia/paramilitary dichotomy that we see in the real world. Of course, if the items are standard issue than the price is inflated so it isn't especially valuable and/or the item is easily recognized as such and therefore cannot be sold to party or ally to the kingdom.
c)Fear of Massacre. Certainly the PCs can mow through the lowest level of soldiers indefinitely - but do they really want to slaughter that many people. A conscious PC would instead attempt to debilitate, disarm or demoralize their mass of foes which is a much more daunting task.

[Dausuul]

I would probably take the level range from 2 to 5 or so, in order to provide a bit more of a spread, and also because I think level 1 is so weak as to be appropriate only to children (the power jump from 1 to 2 is too great, and any level where you can die going mano a mano with a house cat is just silly).

Level 2 would be normal soldiers, with a decent but not spectacular amount of training and maybe a few battles under their belts. (Green soldiers with minimal training would be represented by warrior 1/commoner 1, or even commoner 2.)

Level 3 would be tough, hardened soldiers, like the typical Roman legionary in the heyday of the Empire.

Level 4 would be elite and highly skilled troops, like the Egyptian Mamluks or a modern-day Navy SEAL.

Level 5 would be the absolute top tier of the "normal" fighting units. Even the biggest armies would be unlikely to have more than a few hundred such soldiers.

Anything higher than level 5 would be, as you say, a special commander and his personal retinue.

[DiabolicalFurby]

Generally my system for determining a soldier on the field’s class and level is determined by that soldiers background. I also draw some things from history, but not too much. So that being said it tends to go something like this. (This is for a generic civilized feudal kingdom comprised mostly of Humans +1.)

Basic Units:

Basic Conscript (Untrained): 1st Level Commoner with minimum gear. Basically a Club and Padded Armor, maybe a shield. These types tend to be used as shock troops (i.e. Fodder). They’re untrained and represent a minimum investment of both time and money. Easily replaced and the sheer weight of their presence on the battlefield may be enough to bog down superior troops, allowing one’s own trained forces time to maneuver.

Trained Soldier (Rank and File): 1st Level Warrior with standard gear. Armor might consist of Leather to Chainmail depending on the wealth of the country and how much importance they place on their military. These soldiers form the backbone of a military, the rank and file trained in combat maneuvers and drilled in the use of various weaponry for at least 6 months. Soldiers are usually trained in simple melee weapons or the crossbow.

Yeomen (Archer Militia): 1st Level Commoner usually equipped with Leather or Studded Leather Armor and a Shortbow or Longbow depending on the wealth of the individual. Yeomen are usually drawn from peasants who own their own land. These men typically live near forests or mountains and are usually knowledgeable with a bow from day to day experience either hunting or defending against the less lawful denizens that also occupy such areas. Yeomen are required to spend a set amount of time each month practicing with their bows in preparation for war. (Drawn from the historical English Yeomen who served the same purpose.)

Archers (Trained): 1st Level Warrior who focuses on the use of Shortbows or Longbows. Usually equipped with light armor ranging from leather to Studded Leather, a Chain Shirt is possible but rare. Archers usually spend a great deal of their life training in use of their trademark Bows. Unlike normal Conscripts Archers are usually trained for upwards of two to five years before they are considered proficient enough with their weapons to be fielded in battle.

A Seasoned soldier has seen battle numerous times and has lived to tell of its horrors. For the most part treat a seasoned soldier as its previous class but add an additional level of Warrior. Seasoned warriors often comprise an army’s corporals or even its sergeants.

Veteran Soldiers are the survivors of not just battles, but entire wars. Most Veterans have spent the majority of their life in service to their lord and are considered to be invaluable on the field. For the most part treat a Veteran soldier as its previous class but add two additional levels of Warrior. A Veteran is first considered to be Seasoned before it is considered a Veteran. (So a Veteran Soldier would be considered a 4th Level Warrior) Veterans often comprise an army’s sergeants.

Elite Units:

Squires: 1st- 3rd Level Fighter usually equipped well with Chainmail to Breastplate Armor with shield and with a variety of martial weaponry. Usually a young noble well on his way to knighthood or perhaps an honored position in a kings or lords guard and trained for years by doing everything from polishing his patron knight’s armor and sword to fighting next to his lord in battle. Usually fights mounted and is usually accompanying his patron Knight.

Knights: 4th-8th Level Fighter usually equipped superbly in Heavy Armor, usually Half Plate or Full Plate with a shield and wielding a variety of martial weaponry. Landed Gentry in service to Lord or King. Knights have spent their entire life training in the arts of war to better serve their lord and these tried and true combatants are usually how an kingdom measures its military power and are often the deciding factor in many battles. Usually fights mounted.

Lord’s or General’s bodyguards are most often comprised of Knights or at the very least Veteran Soldiers.

King’s bodyguards are always Knights of at least 6th Level.

Specialized Units I wont go into, since this damn thing is longer than I intended. But for the most part experts = scouts and specialized commoners or aristocrats serve as engineers and the like.

[Blasterfire]

I also like the 1, 2, 3 method you stated, and mostly decided on it from this article: http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html

[deadseashoals]

I'm running a game now where you aren't considered properly trained until you reach level 20 in a PC class. Every recruit faces 4 equal CR encounters per day. So they reach level 20 in under 3 years. Your average farmer has at least 30 levels in an NPC class or 25 levels in a PC class.

What a brutal training regimen.

[Emperor Tippy]

What a brutal training regimen.

Not really. Clerics are on hand to heal the recruits and merciful weapons are used.

[Lord Tataraus]

Well for the low-magic campaign I stated out soldiers as:

Grunts - Fighter 2
Veterans - Fighter 3
Elites - Fighter 6

Officers where the same level but with more intelligence and slightly different armaments.

[J.Gellert]

What a brutal training regimen.
Not really. Clerics are on hand to heal the recruits and merciful weapons are used.

Then they are not really dangerous encounters, so they should not give any XP :smallbiggrin:

[BlackStaticWolf]

Then they are not really dangerous encounters, so they should not give any XP :smallbiggrin:

Or at least drastically reduced XP. To me, a person who goes through this regimen is going to get up with a lot of technical skill but next to no actual experience.



As far as soldiers go... my basic non-elite troops are first level fighters (in general, I just don't bother with NPC classes other than aristocrat). A squad of troops is usually commanded by a 2nd or 3rd level fighter. As the unit size goes up, so does the commander's level, until you get to full sized armies commanded by people 10th level or higher. However, these generals are not stock stat blocks like the lower level troops. Instead, they're all unique characters.

Elite troops are usually 2nd or 3rd level.

[StickMan]

Well I'm working on a game in which the last free Kingdom has been fighting off a Demonic invasion for 80 plus years. So the whole population has been training for war basically from the time they are born.

Average level of a 16 year old NPC is going to be about a 3rd level Gestalt with a mix of PC and NPC levels. I figure that by the time many finish there first tour of duty at 21 if they are still alive should be at about level 5-6. This how ever is a special case not a normal game at all.

Normally I would have a militia as 1-3 level Warriors and a professionals army as 2-3 level fighters, perhaps warblades depending on the setting.

[Xefas]

Obviously it varies from game to game, but my current one I'm planning on keeping my party at the lowers levels for longer than usual, so while part of a soldier's strength will be their level, I'm also going to rely on class and equipment.

For instance, a Commoner 1 would be the guy whose never had combat be a major part of his life.

A Warrior 1 is a part-timer, who probably has another job, but trains purposefully to be capable in a battle situation.

A Fighter 1 are full-time soldiers. It's their livelihood, and they're paid simply to be good at killing stuff, so they train day in and day out to stay sharp.

And a Warblade 1 is on par with a PC. They're the elite. Without having to resort to leveling up, you can clearly see the power difference between a Warblade 1 and the other stages.

Similarly, a Marshal is the equivalent to a fighter in this progression, only they were sent to command school because they had higher mental stats instead of straight up bootcamp like a fighter.

Sublime Marshals (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=752414) are the commander equivalent of Warblades.

Not to mention that the equipment is going to be different. Commoners are going to have crap; probably fighting with clubs. Warriors might get some cheap spears or a shortsword. Fighters/Marshals get the good stuff, and Warblade/SublimeMarshals are packing masterwork of whatever the hell they need.

As for spellcasters, Healers and Warmages are probably going to be on par with Fighter/Marshal, and Clerics and Wizards will be elites.

[Indon]

Depends on the world. For a standard D&D universe, I'd probably go with 1-3 levels as noted earlier, but in two of my worlds I run things differently.

In one culture, a frontier environment akin to the 'wild west', I have many more normal individuals with one or two PC levels; they generally function to transport goods and messages between towns through the wilderness, and organize militias composed of NPC classes for town defense. The most common PC classes are Ranger, Scout, and Rogue.

In another setting, I have a culture that is meant to be much more modern in makeup; there, soldiers are generally level 2 to 5, with elite units being comparable with other PC's. The HP's aren't as much of a concern, because there are firearms which are generally pretty high-damage (courtesy of D20 modern SRD), so it's still hard to take a few shots.

[Ganurath]

Nation:
-Heiron
--Basic infantry, melee and ranged, are L1 Warriors
--Cavalry is L1 Fighters
--Regiment commanders are L3
--Elite troops are a level up from basic, with the same classes
--Each regiment is accompanied by a cleric of the regiment's level
--Specialist Forces include Paladins and Planar Allies
-Hextoria
--Secondary lines in regiments are L1 Fighters
--Soldiers in the front line are L2 Fighters
--The regiment commander is L3
--Each regiment has a L1 Cleric with a Wand of Cure Light
--Specialist Forces include Planar Allies and Elven Skirmishers
-Kordite Confederacy
--No standing army
--Low to mid level Bards and Swashbucklers in mobility
--L1-3 Warriors in defensive militia
--Specialist Forces include Court Mages
-Erythnuli Wastes
--Level Inappropriate Random Encounters on defense
--Level Appropriate Random Encounters on offense
--Races include every evil humanoid under the sun
--Specialist forces include Giants and Lycanthropes
-Shiverpines
--Wolf packs lead by L3 Druids
--Wild Predators
--More Druids, plus Barbarians and Rangers
--Specialist forces include Elementals, Plants, and a Great White Wyrm
-The Scattered Continent
--Mercenary State
-The Dead Continent
--Undead
--Occasional low level necromancer student
-Boccobist Academy
--Squads of L1-3 Wizards lead by L4-6 Specialists
--Specialist Forces include Mid Level Wizards and Summons
Too lazy to put in Elven Realms, Dwarven Empire, and the other racial kingdoms.

[Azerian Kelimon]

It's always important to remember that, past level 7, balance has gone to hell (solid fogs are in play, overland flight is common). A FIGHTER of level 6 is going to mow down the opposition as if there was no tomorrow. Heck, if it's a ranged fighter, he'll be shooting thrice with rapid shot, enough to regularly drop three enemies per round. and at REALLY high levels, as an example, a swordsage is going to walk on air, deflect everything thrown at him, and destroy every single soldier alone with earthquakes and inferno blasts. By third level, a soldier is a prized pawn for the lords, and looked up to as a hero by his less experienced teammates. A level 5 corps would probably be the equivalent of the 300...on steroids. Because of this, it's my opinion the cap for normal soldiers is 5, and they only take core classes. Else, it gets really screwed when every guy in the battlefield is a killing machine.

[J.Gellert]

Funny side-information: Commanders, who should have the Leadership feat, cannot get it until level 6. :smalltongue:

[Emperor Demonking]

Mine are normally 2-3, because I use ones for the villiage guard and I think the soldiers arebetter trained.

[Crow]

Quite interesting how everybody else does this. I am glad that I am not too far off from most DM's out there.


Funny side-information: Commanders, who should have the Leadership feat, cannot get it until level 6. :smalltongue:

I've never looked at the Leadership feat quite like that. Rather than a feat that you should have if you plan to lead troops, I look at it like it's a feat you should have if your character "has it". The guys who have that natural aura about them that make others want to follow. The commanders that have this will be special cases.

It's like in the Conan RPG. A king with Leadership will have many more soldiers than the leadership table will give him, but the followers granted by Leadership are the only ones he can trust implicitly.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Yes. To explain leadership, a RL example is good. The soldiers LIKED fighting for General Lee, since he "had it". He motivated his troops. Now, people didn't like fighting for general McClellan, Hooker, or Meade. They were quite pathetic, they didn't garner loyalty, and they were poor strategists.

[Jack Zander]

Soldiers gained through Leadership are volunteers. You don't have to pay them or anything. Anyone with enough money can pay soldiers to fight for them, but those you gain through Leadership are there just because you are someone to look up to and to follow.

Soldiers under the command of a general are hired by the king. Soldiers under the command of George Washington were inspired by his leadership. General Lee was a good mix of leadership loyal soldiers and regular paid soldiers. I can imagine many DnD generals are like Lee, but certainly not every general is 6th level and above.