Emulating 3.5's Factotum in 5E

[Postmodernist]

Factotum was one of my favorite classes in 3.5, and I'm thinking of how best to emulate him with a multiclass build. The Factotum is a skillmonkey that emulates other classes. It can hang in combat, cast arcane spells as a sort of half-caster, and act as a rogue. Popular 3.5 builds included combining with Warblade for melee adaptability, Master of Masks for supernatural flexibility, and Chameleon for complete 5th man flexibility to swap into almost any role. Some things that are "Factotum-y:"


Soul Knife Rogue 3 - Psi-bolstered knack's reroll for failed skill checks is similar to original Factotum "flash of insight" flavor, easily refluffed as skill instead of psionics. Psychic Whispers and Psychic Blades are just bonus.
Scout Rogue 3 - Skirmisher and free skills fit nicely, a popular choice for Skillmonkey builds.
Phantom Rogue 3- Whispers of the Dead has a Factotum/Chameleon floating feat feel.
Swashbuckler Rogue 3 - Rakish Audacity and Fancy Footwork have very Factotum vibes. Sort of recreates the Cunning Surge feature if taken to 6 for the extra attacks.
Lore Bard 3 - Free skills and cutting words fit the flavor nicely, additional magical secrets at 6 is an option. Hell, Bard in general is pretty Factotum-y, especially with Jack-Of-All-Trades.
Blades Bard 3 - Recaptures a lot of the combat flavor, though redundant with something like Swashbuckler.

Knowledge Cleric 2 - free skills at 1st, and the Channel Divinity for a floating skill, very similar to the popular "floating feat" Factotum/Chameleon builds from 3.5.
War Wizard 10 - This feels like the main chassis for me. Arcane Deflection, Tactical Wit, and Durable Magic all feel very much like the Factotum's Cunning Defense skills.



My gut is: Lore Bard 3, Swashbuckler Rogue 3, Knowledge Cleric 2, War Wizard 12 or something similar.

Questions:

Am I missing anything?

How do you deal with the serious potential MAD of a build like this (13 cha, dex, int, and wis potentially needed)?

Which Rogue subclass makes the most sense?

Is it worth bumping bard and/or rogue to 4 for an ASI and dropping some of wizard or all of cleric?

What are your optimized builds with these ideas?

Thanks in advance for your ideas!

[Wonton64]

I would go Inquisitive Rogue for the Rogue portion. Insightful Fighting can kind of emulate Cunning Insight and Iaijutsu Focus.

Factotums don't have many divine features, so I think one level in your preferred Domain for Channel Divinity would be best.

Probably want to take a few more levels of Rogue over Bard/Wizard, you don't want your spell levels to get too high, you know?

Maybe some Artificer for INT to hit and damage, plus some item creation throw into the mix.

[Mastikator]

Start with Rogue, at level one with variant human you also take the skilled feat for 3 extra skill proficiencies. With 4 from rogue, 3 +1 from human and 2 from background you got 10 skill proficiencies, 2 expertise.
At level 3 you take the scout subclass for the two expertise in survival and nature. Now 12 skill proficiencies and 4 expertises.
At level 4 you multiclass to bard for one extra skill proficiency. Now you have 13 and 4
At level 6 you take lore bard for 3 extra skill proficiencies and 2 expertise. Now you have 16 and 6.
At level 7 you take one level in cleric, knowledge domain, you gain expertise in 2 knowledge skills, so you got 18 proficiencies and 8 expertise. You are now proficient in every skill.

Alternative to to knowledge cleric is ranger with deft explorer, you gain only 1 proficiency and 1 expertise, this means at level 8 when you take rogue(or bard) 4 you can take the skill expert feat and end up with proficiency in every skill and 8 expertises.

IMO knowledge cleric is better because you can also take the Guidance cantrip, which can add +1d4 to most skill checks. And you get every skill at level 7.

After that you have 13 levels to do with what you wish :smallwink:

You'll need 13 dex, wisdom and charisma to pull it off.

(I am counting expertise as both proficiency and expertise)

[Postmodernist]

Start with Rogue, at level one with variant human you also take the skilled feat for 3 extra skill proficiencies. With 4 from rogue, 3 +1 from human and 2 from background you got 10 skill proficiencies, 2 expertise.
At level 3 you take the scout subclass for the two expertise in survival and nature. Now 12 skill proficiencies and 4 expertises.
At level 4 you multiclass to bard for one extra skill proficiency. Now you have 13 and 4
At level 6 you take lore bard for 3 extra skill proficiencies and 2 expertise. Now you have 16 and 6.
At level 7 you take one level in cleric, knowledge domain, you gain expertise in 2 knowledge skills, so you got 18 proficiencies and 8 expertise. You are now proficient in every skill.

Alternative to to knowledge cleric is ranger with deft explorer, you gain only 1 proficiency and 1 expertise, this means at level 8 when you take rogue(or bard) 4 you can take the skill expert feat and end up with proficiency in every skill and 8 expertises.

IMO knowledge cleric is better because you can also take the Guidance cantrip, which can add +1d4 to most skill checks. And you get every skill at level 7.

After that you have 13 levels to do with what you wish :smallwink:

You'll need 13 dex, wisdom and charisma to pull it off.

(I am counting expertise as both proficiency and expertise)

Yeah, I've looked at some very similar "ultimate skillmonkey" type builds. I think they're good, and very close to the flavor, but a little too all over the place, even for Factotum. I also think they lack a little bit of the arcane and martial possibilities the old 3.5 Factotum had. I was a big fan of Personman's Haberdasher the Masked build, some of the similar Warblade/Martial Facotutm builds, and the classic Chameleon builds. Would love to recapture those. Oh, and Cunning Surge, too.

[Rukelnikov]

Yeah, I've looked at some very similar "ultimate skillmonkey" type builds. I think they're good, and very close to the flavor, but a little too all over the place, even for Factotum. I also think they lack a little bit of the arcane and martial possibilities the old 3.5 Factotum had. I was a big fan of Personman's Haberdasher the Masked build, some of the similar Warblade/Martial Facotutm builds, and the classic Chameleon builds. Would love to recapture those. Oh, and Cunning Surge, too.

The thing is, what made those classes unique was not ther ability to cover a lot of bases, but their mutability, how the character today may be wildly different than the character tomorrow. Maybe instead of going for static choices that allow you to do a lil bit of everything, you should try going for "mutable" abilities, like Whispers of the Dead, which allow your character to change from one LR to the next.

There are not that many features that allow you to do that, however, in the last couple UAs, some feats with that flavour have come up. Krynn's knightly orders allow you to change Maneuvers at long rest, and giants UA Rune Carver (adept), gives you an assortment of 1st level spells which you can pick from each day. Sadly those are all feats (and obviously UA), there aren't many mutable class features, wizards cantrip formulae comes to mind, beast barb has some movement choice they can take each rest. Im sure there are a couple more, but I'd need to search for them.

EDIT: current elven trance allows you to change more skills from LR to LR.

[Postmodernist]

The thing is, what made those classes unique was not ther ability to cover a lot of bases, but their mutability, how the character today may be wildly different than the character tomorrow. Maybe instead of going for static choices that allow you to do a lil bit of everything, you should try going for "mutable" abilities, like Whispers of the Dead, which allow your character to change from one LR to the next.

There are not that many features that allow you to do that, however, in the last couple UAs, some feats with that flavour have come up. Krynn's knightly orders allow you to change Maneuvers at long rest, and giants UA Rune Carver (adept), gives you an assortment of 1st level spells which you can pick from each day. Sadly those are all feats (and obviously UA), there aren't many mutable class features, wizards cantrip formulae comes to mind, beast barb has some movement choice they can take each rest. Im sure there are a couple more, but I'd need to search for them.

Totally agree here - the flexibility was what made them so fun (and occasionally challenging) to play. I believe I included Whispers of the Dead in my above analysis to emulate the "floating feat" vibe of Chameleon/Factotum builds, but again, I completely echo your recommendation.

Great suggestions on the UA front - I'm less familiar with some of those resources, but I'll definitely look into them. Thank you!

[Rukelnikov]

Totally agree here - the flexibility was what made them so fun (and occasionally challenging) to play. I believe I included Whispers of the Dead in my above analysis to emulate the "floating feat" vibe of Chameleon/Factotum builds, but again, I completely echo your recommendation.

Great suggestions on the UA front - I'm less familiar with some of those resources, but I'll definitely look into them. Thank you!

Glad to be of help. This is probably one of the system level archetypes I miss the most from the 3.x era. And yeah you did include WotD, I completely agree with that inclusion.

[animorte]

Celestial TomeLock/Swashbuckler Rogue! You can focus your utility in whatever way you choose and keep customizing things with the awesome TomePact invocations.

I also believe someone touched on the lovely shenanigans of a Spirits Bard.

Arcane Tricksters should not be overlooked.

I genuinely got super excited to see some Factotum conversation guys! One of the silliest things out there, love it!

[Postmodernist]

Celestial TomeLock/Swashbuckler Rogue! You can focus your utility in whatever way you choose and keep customizing things with the awesome TomePact invocations.

I also believe someone touched on the lovely shenanigans of a Spirits Bard.

Arcane Tricksters should not be overlooked.

I genuinely got super excited to see some Factotum conversation guys! One of the silliest things out there, love it!

Excellent ideas! I miss the class enormously. I've seen some great homebrew for it, but, alas, convincing a DM to accept it can be tough.