Gnomes and Stealth

[Obscuraphile]

So, I have a player, who when reading the physical description of gnomes in the CR, was compelled to play a character with bright blue hair, purple eyes, and pink skin. I'm cool with that, but it did get me wondering, shouldn't that mitigate or even cancel out the gnome's size bonus to stealth? I mean unless they wear a full cat suit they're going to stand out in just about any terrain, right? I can't find any support for the idea that bright, clashing colors would cause a penalty to stealth, but would it be a reasonable ruling?

He's planning to go Sylvan Sorcerer/Ecclesitheurge/Mystic Theurge, so it's not like a few points off of stealth really matter to his build or skill set.

[MesiDoomstalker]

The thing you may be forgetting is that you cannot use Stealth without cover and not being directly observed (Hide in Plain Sight, Invisibility and such effects not withstanding). What that means is that regardless of the visual elements of the character using Stealth, if an observer can see said visual elements they can't use Stealth. Now, I will concede a bunch of random monsters as well as various spells, feats, magic items and etc that give bonus to Stealth by use of some flavor of camouflage.

But the better question you should be asking. "Does this make the game more fun?" I can't answer that for you; that's for you and your players to decide. Personally; whatever fun of "the guard spots your wildly colored hair!" is greatly out weighed by the bad-feeling of fluff cosmetic appearance choices imposing a penalty. I'd be heavy disincentivized to do anything fluffy that may result in a penalty.

[Particle_Man]

Another thought is to give their colouration a slight chameleon quality when using stealth and have their regular colours be in place when they are not using stealth as sort of a default.

[Maat Mons]

I feel like, for most characters, you have more clothing visible than skin. So if you're going to model the effect color has on stealth, wearing a red cloak is going to do more to hurt your check than your natural coloration ever could.

[farothel]

The skin shouldn't be a problem. As said, they most likely will wear clothes that covers it. Same with the eyes, as those are quite small compared to the whole character.

The hair might be a slight issue, but still. Just wearing a hat or something can solve that easily enough. And it also depends on the location you're trying to be stealthy in. In a city, there's probably others with strange features, so there you might not be all that noticeable. In a small town, if you're the only gnome there, it doesn't really matter anyway, as everybody will know who you are.

And also note that some animals do quite a good job being stealthy while also having bright coloring. Tigers come to mind here.

[TheStranger]

But the better question you should be asking. "Does this make the game more fun?" I can't answer that for you; that's for you and your players to decide. Personally; whatever fun of "the guard spots your wildly colored hair!" is greatly out weighed by the bad-feeling of fluff cosmetic appearance choices imposing a penalty. I'd be heavy disincentivized to do anything fluffy that may result in a penalty.

Go for the best of both worlds. Give them no mechanical penalty but whenever they fail a check fluff it as being due to the wildly colored hair. But yeah, no mechanical effect for fluff choices. I mean, this (3.P generally) is a game where there’s no particular stealth penalty for being a half-dragon with shiny scales all over you and wings growing out of your back. A brightly colored gnome is nothing compared to some of the PCs I’ve seen.

[Bohandas]

So, I have a player, who when reading the physical description of gnomes in the CR, was compelled to play a character with bright blue hair, purple eyes, and pink skin. I'm cool with that, but it did get me wondering, shouldn't that mitigate or even cancel out the gnome's size bonus to stealth? I mean unless they wear a full cat suit they're going to stand out in just about any terrain, right?

Not at a rave

[Wintermoot]

So, I have a player, who when reading the physical description of gnomes in the CR, was compelled to play a character with bright blue hair, purple eyes, and pink skin. I'm cool with that, but it did get me wondering, shouldn't that mitigate or even cancel out the gnome's size bonus to stealth? I mean unless they wear a full cat suit they're going to stand out in just about any terrain, right? I can't find any support for the idea that bright, clashing colors would cause a penalty to stealth, but would it be a reasonable ruling?

He's planning to go Sylvan Sorcerer/Ecclesitheurge/Mystic Theurge, so it's not like a few points off of stealth really matter to his build or skill set.

Why are you trying to punish the player for deciding how he wants his character to look? Because that's ultimately what you are doing. "Oh you want to look different? here's a penalty."

He's decided his character looks like the way gnomes are described in the setting book. He might stand out to you, but he wouldn't stand out to the characters who are used to seeing oddly colored gnomes. So it's not weird to them and it becomes part of the background visual clutter of their universe.

20 years ago, if I saw a woman with bright blue hair I would notice her as "different" or unusual. Nowadays (at least where I live) odd hair coloring is so common it no longer registers. In this fantasy world, he's not something garish or uncommon, he's just a gnome.

So there's your explanation if you really need one for why it isn't causing a stealth penalty. But, honestly, you shouldn't need one. Don't penalize players for having fun. And, most importantly, if you really don't recognize that is what you are doing, then start recognizing it.

Maybe this is another way to look at it. If the gnome read the description and then said "well my gnome is different. He has jet black skin, jet black hair and jet black eyes. " are you now going to give him a bonus to stealth? penalty to social skill interactions with other gnomes?

How about the other players who put absolutely no effort or thought into how they look? Giving the gnome a penalty for actually caring enough to think about it, read about it and decide what he looks like amounts to a bonus to the others who didn't bother.

[gijoemike]

The whole size bonus is a representation that the gnome can more easily hide behind something. The whole point of hiding is so that they don't see my neon hair. So no, the appearance of the character shouldn't detract from a size bonus to stealth.

[Seward]

As somebody who owned a 100lb bright orange dog whose tail would go up and make him more visible when he was up to no good....

It is possible to be stealthy no matter what you look like. (He was a master at knowing where attention was, and moving through areas where nobody was paying attention, accomplishing feats like eating the meat out of a sandwich where the holder didn't notice till he bit into it, or escaping from a new house because he noticed that my aunt didn't shut the door properly, waited for her to go through it, waited till nobody was looking, wedged the door open and escaped).

We used to laugh at the "Sneakosaurus" (D&D Dinosaurs with good stealth skills). Then we all met Moose.

So yeah, as others said, the gnome can look like whatever, it still gets a +4 bonus to stealth. If noticed, the appearance might cause a reaction in areas where that...fashion statement...isn't in style. But being noticed doesn't really consider blending into the background except as a positive modifier to stealth sometimes caused by mundane gear, magic items or spells.

[Obscuraphile]

Not at a rave

Well, now I need to find a way to work a rave into my fantasy adventure.


Why are you trying to punish the player for deciding how he wants his character to look? Because that's ultimately what you are doing. "Oh you want to look different? here's a penalty."

He's decided his character looks like the way gnomes are described in the setting book. He might stand out to you, but he wouldn't stand out to the characters who are used to seeing oddly colored gnomes. So it's not weird to them and it becomes part of the background visual clutter of their universe.

20 years ago, if I saw a woman with bright blue hair I would notice her as "different" or unusual. Nowadays (at least where I live) odd hair coloring is so common it no longer registers. In this fantasy world, he's not something garish or uncommon, he's just a gnome.

So there's your explanation if you really need one for why it isn't causing a stealth penalty. But, honestly, you shouldn't need one. Don't penalize players for having fun. And, most importantly, if you really don't recognize that is what you are doing, then start recognizing it.

Maybe this is another way to look at it. If the gnome read the description and then said "well my gnome is different. He has jet black skin, jet black hair and jet black eyes. " are you now going to give him a bonus to stealth? penalty to social skill interactions with other gnomes?

How about the other players who put absolutely no effort or thought into how they look? Giving the gnome a penalty for actually caring enough to think about it, read about it and decide what he looks like amounts to a bonus to the others who didn't bother.

Damn, dude, who hurt you? As a matter of fact I probably would give any character who was all blacked out a bonus to stealth in shadowy conditions, but thanks for all of your wild assumptions about me, my players, and my game.


The whole size bonus is a representation that the gnome can more easily hide behind something. The whole point of hiding is so that they don't see my neon hair. So no, the appearance of the character shouldn't detract from a size bonus to stealth.

That explanation works for hiding behind cover, but it doesn’t really consider hiding with concealment. If the character is trying to hide in the dark (dim light) or in a cloud of fog/smoke it seems like that should be less effective.

[Seward]

That explanation works for hiding behind cover, but it doesn’t really consider hiding with concealment. If the character is trying to hide in the dark (dim light) or in a cloud of fog/smoke it seems like that should be less effective.

I think stealth might have a modifier for high or low contrast, or I might be mixing up game systems.

An all white gnome might do better in snow, all black in shadow, motley in a brightly colored meadow blending with flowers.

D&D usually abstracts that but the GM can toss a +2 or -2 mod for circumstances whenever. Given that most gnomes have prestidigitation 1/day if the GM is imposing such modifiers, then the gnome should be able to get a +2 to stealth with prestidigitation if they take a bit of time to change their coloration of self and clothes to be local camouflage. If you do impose a penalty for purple hair or whatever, it'll go down better if you let the player use prestidigitation that way, because basically if you don't, you are being inconsistent.

[Obscuraphile]

I think stealth might have a modifier for high or low contrast, or I might be mixing up game systems.

I thought this was the case as well but couldn’t find it anywhere.


An all white gnome might do better in snow, all black in shadow, motley in a brightly colored meadow blending with flowers.

D&D usually abstracts that but the GM can toss a +2 or -2 mod for circumstances whenever. Given that most gnomes have prestidigitation 1/day if the GM is imposing such modifiers, then the gnome should be able to get a +2 to stealth with prestidigitation if they take a bit of time to change their coloration of self and clothes to be local camouflage. If you do impose a penalty for purple hair or whatever, it'll go down better if you let the player use prestidigitation that way, because basically if you don't, you are being inconsistent.

I’m happy to allow magical or mundane methods for altering coloration

[Jay R]

Either ignore it, or say, "OK. Spend 2 coppers for a hood you throw on when using stealth," and then ignore it.