Evil Bard Spells

[Mordante]

Dear all,

I play an "evil" Bard. Not raging, blood raining madness evil. But evil none the less. I just became level 5 and was looking for a nice spell. is there any level 2 spell that is evil. For level 1 I have the spell. Sorrow. Is there something similar for level 2?

I would prefer an mind affecting spell a nice curse or fear spell.

[Tzardok]

There's one in the Spell Compendium that debuffs creatures in a cone before you. I think it's called Wave of Sorrow.

[Metastachydium]

Hm. Wave of GriefCD (debuffing cone with Evil and Mind-Affecting descriptor; probably what Tzardok had in mind)? Vision of EntropyFC1 (Mind-Affecting Fear effect; subject experiences visions of the Abyss)? Torrent of TearsCM (Mind-Affecting Compulsion; subject's blinded and sickened by uncontrollable crying/sobbing)?

[pabelfly]

Dance of Ruin is 2d20 damage to all non-demons.

[Mordante]

Hm. Wave of GriefCD (debuffing cone with Evil and Mind-Affecting descriptor; probably what Tzardok had in mind)? Vision of EntropyFC1 (Mind-Affecting Fear effect; subject experiences visions of the Abyss)? Torrent of TearsCM (Mind-Affecting Compulsion; subject's blinded and sickened by uncontrollable crying/sobbing)?

Great suggestions.


Dance of Ruin is 2d20 damage to all non-demons.

Oooohhh nice

I think we have a winner here. I will need some further investigation,but I like these a lot.

[Metastachydium]

Oooohhh nice

I think we have a winner here. I will need some further investigation,but I like these a lot.

Do bear in mind that Dance of Ruin is from BoVD, and is, therefore, 3.0 material. In case that's not a problem for you, though, it's indeed a fun trick (if a bit party-unfriendly, being a 35' radius spread at your level). I mean, untyped damage measured in d20s? Delicious.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A lot of mind-affecting spells can be extremely evil if used correctly. Even a spell like enthrall (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enthrall.htm) could be used to distract marks while an allied thief (whether rogue or otherwise) robs them blind.

Go through the bard list and note all the ways that various spells could be used for evil (or at least extremely selfish) purposes.

[ShurikVch]

Both CaterwaulCM (creatures in the area become nauseated or sickened for 1 round) and GlossolaliaXPH (shrieks of nonsense and gibberish that thinking creatures find distracting and confusing) are Cone-shaped - thus, more party-friendly

Also, excuse me for pointing the obvious, but Scare is a 2nd-level Bard spell which is both Fear and Mind-Affecting

[Thurbane]

According to Imarvin, these are Bard spells with the Evil tag (I've bolded the level 2s):


Cheat
Curse of the Putrid Husk
Dance of Ruin
Dirge of Discord
Eyebite
Infernal Threnody
Morality Undone
Nightmare
Remorseless Charm
Song of Festering Death
Sorrow
Soul Shackles
Stunning Screech
Wave of Pain

[Bohandas]

Technically Summon Monster IImcan be cast as an [EVIL] spell

[nedz]

According to Imarvin, these are Bard spells with the Evil tag (I've bolded the level 2s):


Cheat
Curse of the Putrid Husk
Dance of Ruin
Dirge of Discord
Eyebite
Infernal Threnody
Morality Undone
Nightmare
Remorseless Charm
Song of Festering Death
Sorrow
Soul Shackles
Stunning Screech
Wave of Pain


Seems to be fairly complete, but is missing Wave of Grief [SpC et al]

[Mordante]

Thank you all so much, I can work with this.

My DM is not a huge fan of BOVD but I think I can convince them it's fine. :) I promise to behave.

Slightly of topic, can you teach a spell to someone without letting them know what the effect is? It would be fun to teach dance of ruin to other casters, telling them it would buff a group of people or that something similar. have an unknowing bard perform it in a bar or something.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Slightly of topic, can you teach a spell to someone without letting them know what the effect is? It would be fun to teach dance of ruin to other casters, telling them it would buff a group of people or that something similar. have an unknowing bard perform it in a bar or something.You could always teach them against their will via mindrape. You'd need a scroll of it, but that doesn't force them to cast it ever. I also don't think there are mechanics for such a thing. It'd be up to the DM as to whether a Bluff or Forgery check would allow it.

[ShurikVch]

Slightly of topic, can you teach a spell to someone without letting them know what the effect is? It would be fun to teach dance of ruin to other casters, telling them it would buff a group of people or that something similar. have an unknowing bard perform it in a bar or something.
Sorry, but pretty sure it would be next to impossible: if Spellcraft (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spellcraft.htm) allow to "Understand a strange or unique magical effect" which caster neither seen nor heard of before - then the chance for them to cast a spell without understanding what, exactly, it's supposed to do is negligible
You best bet there may be a cursed item (or, at least, magic item disguised with Magic Aura (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm))

[sleepyphoenixx]

Slightly of topic, can you teach a spell to someone without letting them know what the effect is? It would be fun to teach dance of ruin to other casters, telling them it would buff a group of people or that something similar. have an unknowing bard perform it in a bar or something.

You can't learn a new spell without understanding it. Wizards are pretty explicit about it (part of scribing a new spell is deciphering it after all).

Deciphering a magical writing allows the reader to identify the spell and gives some idea of its effects (as explained in the spell description).
Bards and sorcerers can't be taught any spells aside from those they get at level up, and unusual spells still require understanding.


A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time he attains a new level in his class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: The Bard or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list he now knows. With permission, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some understanding of.

[Mordante]

Sorry, but pretty sure it would be next to impossible: if Spellcraft (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spellcraft.htm) allow to "Understand a strange or unique magical effect" which caster neither seen nor heard of before - then the chance for them to cast a spell without understanding what, exactly, it's supposed to do is negligible
You best bet there may be a cursed item (or, at least, magic item disguised with Magic Aura (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm))


You can't learn a new spell without understanding it. Wizards are pretty explicit about it (part of scribing a new spell is deciphering it after all).

Bards and sorcerers can't be taught any spells aside from those they get at level up, and unusual spells still require understanding.

Sadly enough I think you are correct. It would have been fun though.

[Analytica]

You can: Use "Embrace/shun the dark chaos" for Extra Spell: <evil spell>.

Once in place you know to cast it. Do you know what it does? Not necessarily, and if your Spellcraft is not great, maybe you can't predict it? There must have been people surprised at what their developed spells actually did after all.

[Wildstag]

Honestly, if you play a bard straight, you don't even need [evil] spells. Enchantment is overlooked pretty often, but messing with the sanctity of another's mind should be one of the most evil things out there. Illusion is kinda evil in the same way, but more torturous because they have to believe the image rather than being forced into accepting the magical reality.

I'm not sure what the [evil] tag does to a spell if you're already an evil person though. Does it do aura/detection things?

[Thurbane]

Honestly, if you play a bard straight, you don't even need [evil] spells. Enchantment is overlooked pretty often, but messing with the sanctity of another's mind should be one of the most evil things out there.

Agreed: Dominate Person is, IMHO, far more immoral than using Animate Dead to create a mindless zombie.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'm not sure what the [evil] tag does to a spell if you're already an evil person though. Does it do aura/detection things?

It doesn't do anything by itself except bypass regeneration x/evil, show up on Detect Evil and trigger bonuses against evil spells.
It does qualify a spell for things like Spell Focus: Evil or the CL boost from the Evil domain though. There's quite a few feats & items that only affect spells of a particular descriptor.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Some [evil] spells are even far less evil than non-[evil] spells. Mindrape is extraordinarily not-evil, for instance, with tons of extremely beneficial possible uses, and deathwatch isn't even the tiniest of blips on the malev-o-meter.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Some [evil] spells are even far less evil than non-[evil] spells. Mindrape is extraordinarily not-evil, for instance, with tons of extremely beneficial possible uses, and deathwatch isn't even the tiniest of blips on the malev-o-meter.

Yeah, I don't buy it. Mindrape may be the most absolute tool of therapy ever, it wouldn't erase the fact that you're invading a person's mind, basically erasing what they are, and replacing it with your own conception of them. What you replace them with may be considered "healthier" in the greater scheme of things, and you could find proof of somebody's guiltiness in there, that's still at its core a spell designed for turning people against their friends and allies, learning all they know without letting them conceal anything private and messing with their memories. That's a complete denial of the individual they are, of their privacy, of their life, of everything they stand for that you don't. I'd argue there is no spell more evil than Mindrape (I mean, maybe except Necrotic termination, soul bind, apocalypse from the sky and other spells that threaten the integrity of an individual beyond even their mortal life, or are just aimed at destroying everything in sight, especially innocents. You could also argue that bringing Negative Energy into the Material Plane leads to the eventual destruction of everything that is, and that the most evil spells are Animate Dead and Create (Greater) Undead, but that's much more indirect).

Deathwatch, however, I agree is completely non-evil.

[hamishspence]

Deathwatch, however, I agree is completely non-evil.

I blame Monte Cook for that one - he recommended changing Deathwatch to have the evil tag in BoVD, and, sure enough, when 3.0 changed to 3.5, Deathwatch changed from not having it (3.0 PHB) to having it (3.5 PHB).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

@AMBeni-Kujaku - How is using a scroll on yourself invading someone else's mind? There's no [evil] energy or [evil] creatures involved, and there are non-evil uses for it (teaching, therapy, and suchlike), so it should NOT be [evil].