Implications of (rudimentary) intelligent golems with class levels?

[redking]

Golems can be made intelligent via this Dragon Magazine feat option for anyone with the Craft Construct feat.


Rudimentary Intelligence
Type: General
Source: Dragon #327

Your construct possesses intelligence.
Prerequisite: Construct: Construct, no Intelligence score.
Creator: Craft Construct, CL 12th.
Benefit: A spellcaster applying this augmentation bestows an Intelligence score upon his creation equal to 1/2 his caster level. In addition to being able to make judgments and decisions as any other creature with a similar Intelligence score, the construct gains feats and skill points befitting an intelligent construct of its Hit Dice (see page 301 of the Monster Manual for information on how to determine and distribute monstrous feats and skills). This augmentation cannot add additional Intelligence to a construct that normally has an Intelligence score. A golem that gains intelligence in this manner is still bound to the will of its creator as normal.
A clay golem with rudimentary intelligence costs 48,000 gp and requires a spellcaster to spend 48 days, 29,500 gp, and 1,920 XP to create. Such a golem gains an Intelligence score of 6, four feats, and 14 skill points.
Special: Cost: +8,000 gp.
CR Adjustment: 11 HD or less, as base creature; HD 12-23, as base creature +1; RD 24 or more, as base creature +2.

Golems have magic immunity to spells and magical effects that allow spell resistance. They also only have a Charisma score of 1, although the shadesteel golem has a Charisma score of 7 for some reason.

If a regular golem with 1 Cha and magic immunity took class levels in say Monk, what are the implications of this? Do abilities like Wholeness of Body, Empty Body or even Perfect Self work as normal?

[InvisibleBison]

Magic immunity is first introduced at the start of the golem entry, and says "Golems have immunity to most magical and supernatural effects, except when otherwise noted." The magic immunity entry of each golem goes on to elaborate how spells and SLAs affect that particular kind of golem, but none mention supernatural abilities. Thus, I think golems are immune to all supernatural abilities, including any from class levels.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Magic immunity is first introduced at the start of the golem entry, and says "Golems have immunity to most magical and supernatural effects, except when otherwise noted." The magic immunity entry of each golem goes on to elaborate how spells and SLAs affect that particular kind of golem, but none mention supernatural abilities. Thus, I think golems are immune to all supernatural abilities, including any from class levels.

This is 3.0 text. In 3.5, golems are only immune to spells and SLA allowing spell resistance. Their own ability would absolutely not be blocked.
Also, being immune to something doesn't mean you can't benefit from it if it doesn't target you. A monk's Unarmed Strike, for example, is just a passive effect, you would still benefit from it.

[InvisibleBison]

This is 3.0 text. In 3.5, golems are only immune to spells and SLA allowing spell resistance. Their own ability would absolutely not be blocked.

No, it's 3.5. It's in the SRD (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm) and the Monster Manual, in the preliminary entry for golems as a whole.


Also, being immune to something doesn't mean you can't benefit from it if it doesn't target you. A monk's Unarmed Strike, for example, is just a passive effect, you would still benefit from it.

By that logic, a creature immune to fire would take damage from fireball, because the spell isn't targeting them. Or if you want to limit it to buffs, a creature immune to mind-affecting effects would be able to benefit from inspire courage, because it's not actively targeting them. I don't think this is a sensible interpretation of the rules.

(And incidentally, a monk's unarmed strike is a natural ability, not a supernatural one, so a golem monk would be able to benefit from it just fine.)

[Melcar]

No, it's 3.5. It's in the SRD (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm) and the Monster Manual, in the preliminary entry for golems as a whole.



By that logic, a creature immune to fire would take damage from fireball, because the spell isn't targeting them. Or if you want to limit it to buffs, a creature immune to mind-affecting effects would be able to benefit from inspire courage, because it's not actively targeting them. I don't think this is a sensible interpretation of the rules.

(And incidentally, a monk's unarmed strike is a natural ability, not a supernatural one, so a golem monk would be able to benefit from it just fine.)

Well you need to look closer!

"A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance."

[InvisibleBison]

Well you need to look closer!

"A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance."

What part of that specific rule overrides the general rule that golems are immune to supernatural abilities?

[Beni-Kujaku]

What part of that specific rule overrides the general rule that golems are immune to supernatural abilities?

Specific trumps general. The ability named "immunity to magic" is overwritten in each golem entry.

[loky1109]

Specific trumps general. The ability named "immunity to magic" is overwritten in each golem entry.

I don't think it overwrite it all, only "most magical" part, but doesn't say anything about "supernatural" part. I see as it's possible reading.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Spell Immunity (which a golem's Immunity to Magic is a subset of) acts like spell resistance that can't be overcome.
Spell resistance never interferes with your own abilities.

Even if it did it wouldn't stop you from getting class abilities since gaining an ability is not the same as being affected by one.

The alleged immunity to supernatural abilities is a relic from 3.0, the individual golem entries clarify that they're only immune to spells and SLA's that allow SR.
The only creature that's actually immune to supernatural abilities (afair) is the Demilich, which is also a relic from 3.0.


A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome. Sometimes spell immunity is conditional or applies to only spells of a certain kind or level. Spells that do not allow spell resistance are not affected by spell immunity.


A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.

[InvisibleBison]

Specific trumps general. The ability named "immunity to magic" is overwritten in each golem entry.

Specific only trumps general when specific contradicts general, which is not the case here. Nothing in any of the individual golem magic immunity entries says anything about supernatural abilities, so none of those specific abilities alter the general immunity to supernatural abilities.

[ShurikVch]

The alleged immunity to supernatural abilities is a relic from 3.0, the individual golem entries clarify that they're only immune to spells and SLA's that allow SR.
The only creature that's actually immune to supernatural abilities (afair) is the Demilich, which is also a relic from 3.0.
Dragonbone Golem (Draconomicon) is 3.5:

Magic Immunity (Ex): A dragonbone golem has immunity to all spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural effects and abilities.

[Jack_Simth]

Dragonbone Golem (Draconomicon) is 3.5:
A very early one. 3.5 came out July 2003, Draconomicon was November 2003. It's very, very possible they missed some changes.

[ShurikVch]

A very early one. 3.5 came out July 2003, Draconomicon was November 2003. It's very, very possible they missed some changes.
Well, Sardorian Golem (https://web.archive.org/web/20160404015254/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20040123c) was January 2004:

Immunity to Magic (Ex): Sardorian golems are immune to all spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural effects and abilities.

Immunity to Psionics (Ex): Sardorian golems completely resist psionic effects that allow power resistance.

[redking]

Is a golem immune to effects that it uses on itself? What about a half-golem?