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Cikomyr2
2022-05-31, 07:43 AM
Visualisation is the mental capacity to picture mentally what you cannot see. This ability is not usually of much use, but in a world of magic when you can conjure illusions out of thin air, its training has become more common in places of education where you are taught magic.

Whenever you have to conjure an illusion that requires any amount specificity to be believed (i.e. impersonating someone specific) you would have to roll an Intelligence (Visualisation) check to determine how precise you illusion manifests as. Actually seeing the body you are trying to replicate provides advantage on your check.

Using Minor Image or any other "Thought-to-spell" to convey specific information to third party via magic or telepathy requires a Visualisation check to properly convey the information. A failed check does not mean the spell failed, simply that your mind was not able to clearly transform your inner thought in something understandable. (It is recommended that the DM prevents repeated skill rolls).

Visualisation can also be used to bypass certain spell limitations based in sight:

During combat, as a bonus action, you can "Visualize" an unseen oppponent in a specific location so to cast a spell. The Ability check DC is 10+Spell level (more complex spells require more mental effort). The skill check does not mean the targeted location actually has the targeted enemy, simply that you have been able to visualize it in your Mind's Eye as to satisfy the spell requirement that you "see" the target. On a successful check, the spell triggers normally. If there were no viable target in the location visualized, the spell will simply be wasted unless it is an Area of Effect.

Similarily, any teleport-like spells can be used with a successfully visualisation check, but it exposes the transported person the risk of telefragging. If an individual would be teleported inside a wall or an occupied place, the spell will automatically adjust the materialisation location to the nearest available space and the teleported individual takes 1d10 of damage for every 5 feet adjustment they had to make.

Any race with innate illusion abilities or teleporting abilities would automatically have proficiency with Visualisation.

JNAProductions
2022-05-31, 11:14 AM
This is a very, very narrow skill. I would not support adding it to the game.

Eurus
2022-05-31, 11:43 AM
While it makes a certain amount of logical sense, it feels kinda like requiring a knowledge (geometry) check to accurately place a cone spell to hit the right targets. It doesn't really add much to the game except extra hassle for certain types of characters, and it's useless for everyone else. Which, granted, is kinda how Concentration already works...

JeenLeen
2022-05-31, 11:48 AM
It makes sense thematically, but it's a strong debuff to Illusion-based magic (and the others you mentioned). If that's something you want for your setting, it could work well, but make sure to express it to your players. I'd recommend letting players "Take 10" to give some reliability to being able to use their magic well, although with the DC of 10 + Spell Level, I guess that's the same as eliminating the check, so mabye that doesn't work.

If your goal is to eliminate "annoying" magic spells by making them complicated/difficult, it might be better just to ban those spells. (I don't get this feeling from your post, but I've heard of some DMs making stuff they don't like annoying instead of just talking about it with the player.)


During combat, as a bonus action, you can "Visualize" an unseen oppponent in a specific location so to cast a spell. The Ability check DC is 10+Spell level (more complex spells require more mental effort). The skill check does not mean the targeted location actually has the targeted enemy, simply that you have been able to visualize it in your Mind's Eye as to satisfy the spell requirement that you "see" the target. On a successful check, the spell triggers normally. If there were no viable target in the location visualized, the spell will simply be wasted unless it is an Area of Effect

So would this bypass invisibility and/or replace the penalties normally caused by invisibility?
Would it bypass things like miss chance due to Mirror Image, Blink, or similar effects?

Or is it just meant for things like you know someone is behind a tower shield or wall, but you can't physically see them? (Though I guess that's about the same as being invisible, for most purposes.)

Old Harry MTX
2022-05-31, 12:27 PM
Also, I don't like that it's an Intelligence check. Bard's illusions depends mainly on its artistical skills, that are represented by its Charisma, not Intelligence.

Cikomyr2
2022-05-31, 12:28 PM
It makes sense thematically, but it's a strong debuff to Illusion-based magic (and the others you mentioned). If that's something you want for your setting, it could work well, but make sure to express it to your players. I'd recommend letting players "Take 10" to give some reliability to being able to use their magic well, although with the DC of 10 + Spell Level, I guess that's the same as eliminating the check, so mabye that doesn't work.

Id probably allow a "take 10" for simple non time sensitive stuff. But definetly not in a crunch combat or crisis situation.

The point is not to punish creativity, but make pinpoint specificity harder to achieve - like you give an AC bonus to a very very small target.



If your goal is to eliminate "annoying" magic spells by making them complicated/difficult, it might be better just to ban those spells. (I don't get this feeling from your post, but I've heard of some DMs making stuff they don't like annoying instead of just talking about it with the player.)

Hmmm.. no, the point is to strike a good and fun middle ground between "you cant do that" and "oh yhea sure the spell removes all stakes".

For example, asking a witness to remember details of a crime event and you use Detect Thoughts to see these thoughts. You can either rule "the spell doesnt allow for mental image", or you can just outright fiat it that the players gain all knowledge there is to be made...

...or you make the witness roll a Visualisation to see how accurately they can visualize their memory of the events.




So would this bypass invisibility and/or replace the penalties normally caused by invisibility?
Would it bypass things like miss chance due to Mirror Image, Blink, or similar effects?

Or is it just meant for things like you know someone is behind a tower shield or wall, but you can't physically see them? (Though I guess that's about the same as being invisible, for most purposes.)

All of the above.

I wouldnt 'bypass" invisibility. But it would grant a way for a clever character to figure it out. The character still need to roll a perception check at a disadvantage to pinpoint the location of their target, then he has to use a bonus action to visualize the target. I guess you cant still visualize if you fail your perception check.

This isnt a "cut through all illusions" spells. This is about visualization when you cant see your target but have figured (or think you figured) where it is, then you can try to target them with anything that expressedly say "a target you can see".

Mirror image, Blink arent covered by that. Mirror image creates decoys, Blink send you to the etheral plane.

Cikomyr2
2022-05-31, 01:36 PM
Also, I don't like that it's an Intelligence check. Bard's illusions depends mainly on its artistical skills, that are represented by its Charisma, not Intelligence.


But Bards are not necessarily more gifted at visualizing detailed works than anyone else.

A bard will make the most beautiful illusions. Bard will use emotional manipulation to make their victim fall to their arcane wiles. That is where their strenght lies. they will use their charisma to overcome the imprecision of their mind.

Also, bards still get Jack of all trade