Beating Nat 1s

[AvatarVecna]

I'm finding it difficult to search for, so I figured I'd ask here before diving deeper on my own: do y'all know of a mechanic where nat 1s on attacks and/or saves doesn't autofail? Thus far I've found a Mythic ability for attacks ("Always A Chance") and a SoM talent ("Perfect Shot"), but both are for attacks. Found nothing for Saves thus far.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Well, there is having a divine rank of at least 1.

For saving throws only, the Pride domain power works. Once per day, there is Better Lucky than Good, and you can also have any number of ways to reroll dice.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?260600-Ways-to-get-the-quot-on-a-natural-1-reroll-quot-ability
Maybe interesting

[AvatarVecna]

Well, there is having a divine rank of at least 1.

For saving throws only, the Pride domain power works. Once per day, there is Better Lucky than Good, and you can also have any number of ways to reroll dice.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?260600-Ways-to-get-the-quot-on-a-natural-1-reroll-quot-ability
Maybe interesting

Did pride domain get converted to PF? I'm not finding it.

[Laughing Dog]

Steadfast Determination for fortitude saves? Not sure about the other two saves.

[AvatarVecna]

Well, there is having a divine rank of at least 1.

For saving throws only, the Pride domain power works. Once per day, there is Better Lucky than Good, and you can also have any number of ways to reroll dice.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?260600-Ways-to-get-the-quot-on-a-natural-1-reroll-quot-ability
Maybe interesting

The reroll suggestion is worthwhile. Nine Lives spell will protect me from 9 failed saves.

[loky1109]

Diamond Mind maneuvers for saves.
Kensai's Withstand for Reflex.
Iaijutsu Master feat for anything.

[AvatarVecna]

Lotta people missing the PF tag in the title

[loky1109]

Lotta people missing the PF tag in the title
Sorry. You are totally right.

[flat_footed]

I'm finding it difficult to search for, so I figured I'd ask here before diving deeper on my own: do y'all know of a mechanic where nat 1s on attacks and/or saves doesn't autofail? Thus far I've found a Mythic ability for attacks ("Always A Chance") and a SoM talent ("Perfect Shot"), but both are for attacks. Found nothing for Saves thus far.

This is Rite Publishing (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/rite-publishing/luckbringer/), but looks like could work.


Better Lucky than Good (Ex): You can manipulate probabilities to have what would be a disastrous outcome result in a fortuitous one and vice versa: Any natural 1 on a d20 roll as the result of an action that occurs within 100′ of the luckbringer is treated as a natural 20. Any natural 20 on a d20 as the result of an action that occurs within 100′ of the luckbringer can be treated as a natural 1. If you attempt to inflict a natural 1 on an unwilling subject that creature receives a Will saving throw (DC 10 + ½ the luckbringer’s class level + her Charisma modifier) to negate the effect.

[Maat Mons]

I'm finding:

Called (faith trait)
Dauntless Destiny (human-only feat)
Defiant (human-only feat)

Also, I guess, Auspicious Birth, but only for Reflex saves.

[Rydiro]

This is Rite Publishing (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/rite-publishing/luckbringer/), but looks like could work.

Better Lucky than Good (Ex): You can manipulate probabilities to have what would be a disastrous outcome result in a fortuitous one and vice versa: Any natural 1 on a d20 roll as the result of an action that occurs within 100′ of the luckbringer is treated as a natural 20. Any natural 20 on a d20 as the result of an action that occurs within 100′ of the luckbringer can be treated as a natural 1. If you attempt to inflict a natural 1 on an unwilling subject that creature receives a Will saving throw (DC 10 + ½ the luckbringer’s class level + her Charisma modifier) to negate the effect. Does that mean enemy 1s are auto 20s too?

[Beni-Kujaku]

Does that mean enemy 1s are auto 20s too?

Only one per day‚ but yeah‚ you could. If you have suicidal thoughts.

[icefractal]

In SoP, there's Temperance (Fate sphere) - reroll nat 1s on attacks and saves, lasts hours.

There's also Tug Fate, which can turn 1 into 20, but that's short duration or concentration, so usually just an in-combat thing.

[Arkain]

Since you mention SoM I'm guessing that PoW may also be on the table. Scarlet Throne came to mind immediately, with the Sanguine Perseverance counter to use sense motive for any saving throw, i.e. a 1 isn't a failure. I haven't looked any further into it to be honest, but I'd guess there are more in other disciplines, maybe also rerolls. Riven Hourglass definitely has at least one reroll counter.
In terms of equipment, a cyclops helm would allow you to declare any roll to be whatever you want it to be. This doesn't help with a 1, but prevents it in the first place.
Races can also offer some limited re-rolls, e.g. catfolk can re-roll a reflex save per day. Might be more stuff to be found there.
Witch and Shaman (and others who can somehow access hexes, I'd guess) can use Misfortune and Fortune to enforce rerolls for worse results or allow for better ones. As these can be extended with another hex, they can theoretically last infinitely, at the cost of the party's sanity due to a constantly maniacally cackling member. A key disadvantage would be that you have to decide to use your reroll before you start rolling.
There's also at least one spell, Saving Finale, which ends a bardic performance to allow rerolling a failed save as an immediate action.

[AvatarVecna]

Since you mention SoM I'm guessing that PoW may also be on the table. Scarlet Throne came to mind immediately, with the Sanguine Perseverance counter to use sense motive for any saving throw, i.e. a 1 isn't a failure. I haven't looked any further into it to be honest, but I'd guess there are more in other disciplines, maybe also re-rolls. Riven Hourglass definitely has at least one re-roll counter.
In terms of equipment, a cyclops helm would allow you to declare any roll to be whatever you want it to be. This doesn't help with a 1, but prevents it in the first place.
Races can also offer some limited re-rolls, e.g. catfolk can re-roll a reflex save per day. Might be more stuff to be found there.
Witch and Shaman (and others who can somehow access hexes, I'd guess) can use Misfortune and Fortune to enforce re-rolls for worse results or allow for better ones. As these can be extended with another hex, they can theoretically last infinitely, at the cost of the party's sanity due to a constantly maniacally cackling member. A key disadvantage would be that you have to decide to use your re-roll before you start rolling.

While useful knowledge in general (probably should've figured there'd be a PF version of those 3.5 maneuvers that substitute Concentration for saves), the particular game that prompted this question is Yes Spheres/Yes Mythic/Yes Librim Eternia/No Maneuvers. Baffling, I know.

Still, definitely worth keeping in mind for other builds. :smallsmile:

[Kitsuneymg]

Charm of Fate can save you from a nat 1 in some cases.

[Maat Mons]

In an upcoming game, I'll be playing a Shaman with the Speaker for the Past archetype. This gives access to the Rewind Time revelation, which gives 1 reroll per day. Arguably, I also qualify to take Abundant Revelations for 1 additional reroll per day.

I guess you could also access the revelation by being an Oracle. That would also open up the option of a Ring of Revelation for a 3rd reroll per day.

[thethird]

While useful knowledge in general (probably should've figured there'd be a PF version of those 3.5 maneuvers that substitute Concentration for saves), the particular game that prompted this question is Yes Spheres/Yes Mythic/Yes Librim Eternia/No Maneuvers. Baffling, I know.

Still, definitely worth keeping in mind for other builds. :smallsmile:

Oh! It's that kind of game? Can you pump your CL to 180? Felicity (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/fate#toc74) can turn any die roll into a 20 with high enough CL.