Fizban's Dragonborn + Dragon Fear on a Conquest Paladin

[Corwin_of_Amber]

On its face this seems like a fun combo, but is it actually worth it? In essence, I would be giving up one attack to cause a save against fear, then proc my aura of conquest for damage and allow another save at the beginning of their turn. As far as damage, it seems like my overall dpr would decrease in exchange for the AoE fear, but aura of conquest would give me some extra damage over other subclasses that do this, especially if they fail their save again.

Another thought I had was with the shield master feat you could use the fear effect to give disadvantage on the shove.

Does anyone have any experience with this, is this effective or just a gimmick?

[strangebloke]

its effective. The way DF works with the new dragonborn, you can sub one attack on your turn for dragon breath, and you can sub dragon breath for dragon fear. Meaning you can dragon fear and attack and use abilities that require you to use the attack action like shield master.

Sure, enemies get a repeat save due to your damaging aura, but

DF effects a wider area than your aura, and people in that larger area get no repeat saves and often won't be able to approach
any other fear effect like fear or the Leonin racial ability would also allow a repeat save 1/turn, so its not worse.

Ultimately DF is just good value for a half feat. It's basically replacing burning hands x/day, with fear x/day. Way better.

[claypigeons]

They would get another save against the Dragon Fear every time it takes damage. The Aura and the feat work against each other in this case.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

So, I assume at least 9 levels of paladin to be able to cast fear, or is just 7 for the fear aura the best choice? Other than a hexblade dip, is there any good synergy to add onto the build?

[solidork]

So, I assume at least 9 levels of paladin to be able to cast fear, or is just 7 for the fear aura the best choice? Other than a hexblade dip, is there any good synergy to add onto the build?

Getting Fear the spell is a pretty big game changer - if you've locked someone down they never get to try and make a save. Getting to 10 so you can largely ignore friendly fire with your fear is nice, so's Improved Divine Smite, and Find Greater Steed... Honestly, just sticking with Paladin is pretty great unless there is something you really want from more levels in some other full casting class.

If you want to just be THE conquest paladin, straight paladin does what it says on the tin. A more layered concept could include levels in Sorcerer, Bard or Warlock.

[strangebloke]

So, I assume at least 9 levels of paladin to be able to cast fear, or is just 7 for the fear aura the best choice? Other than a hexblade dip, is there any good synergy to add onto the build?

Paladin gives you good features every level. Even dipping hexblade is sort of questionable, although it is very good. We have an extensive thread on this topic.

But if you have dragon fear boosting your charisma or strength to 18 at level 4, and then shield master at 8, you'll do fine. Fun fact! If you knock someone prone while they're in your aura, they can't get to their feet. They're prone and stuck there.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

Paladin gives you good features every level. Even dipping hexblade is sort of questionable, although it is very good. We have an extensive thread on this topic.

But if you have dragon fear boosting your charisma or strength to 18 at level 4, and then shield master at 8, you'll do fine. Fun fact! If you knock someone prone while they're in your aura, they can't get to their feet. They're prone and stuck there.

Oh yeah, I was thinking about this. If I shove someone prone and he makes the save against fear on his turn due to the aura damage, do they regain their movement or does it stay 0 since they started their turn that way?

[strangebloke]

Oh yeah, I was thinking about this. If I shove someone prone and he makes the save against fear on his turn due to the aura damage, do they regain their movement or does it stay 0 since they started their turn that way?

They get it back.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

They get it back.

Thanks for all the help. I'm going to (hopefully) be starting a campaign soon at level 3 with a Topaz dragonborn. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I have heard that at higher levels a lot of things are immune to fear. It there any way around that, like an elemental adept effect for fear?

[AttilatheYeon]

Thanks for all the help. I'm going to (hopefully) be starting a campaign soon at level 3 with a Topaz dragonborn. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I have heard that at higher levels a lot of things are immune to fear. It there any way around that, like an elemental adept effect for fear?

There isn't, but even without fear mechanics, base Pally is quite good.

[Arcomage]

Thanks for all the help. I'm going to (hopefully) be starting a campaign soon at level 3 with a Topaz dragonborn. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I have heard that at higher levels a lot of things are immune to fear. It there any way around that, like an elemental adept effect for fear?

In particular, the trick is that a lot of the things that are immune to fear are Fiends and Undead. As a Paladin, your general class abilities with Radiant damage and granting save bonuses and condition immunities are particularly useful when fighting specifically those same kinds of creatures, so you don't often run into a scenario where you can't meaningfully contribute.

[solidork]

Thanks for all the help. I'm going to (hopefully) be starting a campaign soon at level 3 with a Topaz dragonborn. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I have heard that at higher levels a lot of things are immune to fear. It there any way around that, like an elemental adept effect for fear?

Not that I'm aware of. That being said, this is the kind of game where something not existing isn't the end of the road if you've got a cooperative DM.
Talk with your GM about your worries and ask what options would be available to you if this ends up being a problem. Keep in mind that you've still got all the paladin goodies even if your aura doesn't work - that's nothing to sneeze at.

Personally, I think piercing any immunity is a pretty powerful effect - I wouldn't give it out for something with as little narrative heft as a mere feat. What does it mean to be able to frighten something that has no mind or consciousness? Think something on the order of a very powerful magic item, an epic boon, or rolling it into the Conquest Paladin capstone.

Something that might be a little less of a ask would be something that lets you tell when things are immune to fear, or something that gives you some other non-fear effect when you try to frighten something and it is immune. These won't negate the problem of fear immunity, which can be an interesting challenge to overcome from time to time, but they will help prevent the extremely 'feels bad' moment of spending your entire turn trying to do something only to get nothing out of it.

[strangebloke]

Its also worth mentioning that while a lot of high CR enemies are immune, not all of them are. If your high level adventures deal primarily with giants or dragons for example, you probably won't run into that many immune-to-fear enemies. Beholders and Aboleths aren't immune.

And even if you do run into fear-immune creatures, even at high levels you will also still run into lots of low level enemies who aren't immune. Something like a mindflayer will usually have minions you will need to clear out, as one example.