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PhoenixPhyre
2022-06-03, 05:53 PM
If you were a wizard picking cantrips - 5th level spells with the understanding that your character was a specialist trained to support military forces, what spells would you choose? Not necessarily to prepare, but to have available.

Restrictions: the thematics here are for non-nonsense, tactical support. Strategic and information-gathering support are Someone Else's Job--you're a mage in the fantasy trenches with a heavy infantry squad or a special forces group. Or maybe attached to an artillery/archer squad. Your job is to provide both protection and fire support. So things like buffs, warding, and evocations.

Effectively a mashup of an evoker, abjurer, and warmage.


I'm contemplating a Warmage full class with some weird casting (full progression, except spell list ends at 5th level) and support for enhanced upcasting (including getting "free" upcasting and fueling other class features). And I'm trying to refine the spell list. So far I have (with subclasses getting free spells from on and off this list)

##### Cantrips (0 Level)
- Acid Splash
- Blade Ward
- Booming Blade
- Chill Touch
- Create Bonfire
- Fire Bolt
- Frostbite
- Green-Flame Blade
- Lightning Lure
- Mending
- Message
- Mold Earth
- Prestidigitation
- Ray of Frost
- Shocking Grasp
- Sword Burst

##### 1st Level
- Absorb Elements
- Burning Hands
- Chromatic Orb
- Detect Magic
- Earth Tremor
- Frost Fingers
- Ice Knife
- Magic Missile
- Protection from Evil and Good
- Shield
- Thunderwave

##### 2nd Level
- Acid Arrow
- Binding Ice
- Continual Flame
- Darkness
- Darkvision
- Dragon's Breath
- Earthbind
- Flaming Sphere
- Gentle Repose
- Gust of Wind
- Levitate
- Magic Weapon
- Shatter
- Skywrite
- Warding Wind

##### 3rd Level
- Catnap
- Counterspell
- Dispel Magic
- Fireball
- Flame Arrows
- Intellect Fortress
- Tiny Hut
- Minute Meteors
- Protection from Energy
- Sending
- Sleet Storm
- Thunder Step

##### 4th Level
- Banishment
- Dimension Door
- Elemental Bane
- Fire Shield
- Ice Storm
- Stoneskin
- Storm Sphere
- Vitriolic Sphere
- Wall of Fire

##### 5th Level
- Cloudkill
- Cone of Cold
- Control Winds
- Dawn
- Far Step
- Immolation
- Telepathic Bond
- Steel Wind Strike
- Wall of Force
- Wall of Light
- Wall of Stone

Cheesegear
2022-06-03, 06:10 PM
Restrictions: the thematics here are for non-nonsense, tactical support. Strategic and information-gathering support are Someone Else's Job--you're a mage in the fantasy trenches with a heavy infantry squad or a special forces group. Or maybe attached to an artillery/archer squad. Your job is to provide both protection and fire support.
[...]
I'm contemplating a Warmage full class with some weird casting (full progression, except spell list ends at 5th level) and support for enhanced upcasting (including getting "free" upcasting and fueling other class features). And I'm trying to refine the spell list. So far I have (with subclasses getting free spells from on and off this list).

Hobgoblin Devastators are this. They have one of the best approaches to magic, because Legion:

'A swordsman doesn't need to know how a sword is made to use it. You go like [this] and say [this] and a Fireball comes out. That's all the magic you need to know. Spellbook!? No. You learn the spell. You memorise the spell, and you memorise it forever. You don't need to memorise a new spell, because you know Fireball, and that's all the Legion wants you to know. We want you to learn Fireball, we taught you Fireball, you memorised Fireball, you know magic. Done. Besides, a Spellbook is just something that falls into enemy hands - the Legion isn't about giving the enemy information.'

Hobgoblin Devastators also have free, unlimited-amount-of-allies Careful Spell-Plus.

We have you surrounded!
'You've fallen into my trap. Shields out! I drop an Ice Storm on my own location...Neither me or any of my allies take damage.'

Not just 'they count as passing their saving throw', but, 'they take no damage.' Very strong ability; I imagine the Legion teaches their Wizards about friendly fire, and if their Wizards do it, their Captain is going to brain them.

As far as a list of spells...It seems like you already know what you want... I just really like Hobgoblin Devastators and their approach to learning battle magic.

stoutstien
2022-06-03, 06:19 PM
I'd say it depends on what type of unit you are attached to. Probably could do it by school. It's basically a more caster focused EK.

Corran
2022-06-03, 06:20 PM
Size of the squad? What will your squad be fighting? Other squads? Much larger forces? The enemy's weak spots?

Illusions, obscurement, harmful zones, terrain altering features, teleports, there are too many things you might want to count on on top of the best evocation and abjuration options. It always helps (because it narrows the available options so it's easy to throw suggestions without writing an essay) if you know what you'll be fighting, so in this case on if you want to specialize the squad in a certain way.
Otherwise it's similar to things you would be doing when there are enough friendly "minions" of same/similar type around. Play up to their strengths and try to hide their weaknesses. Eg, do they have good damage potential? Invest in ways of giving them advantage. Are they fragile? Help them fight longer from a distance, or try to enable hit and running for them, or see if there's a good way to buff their defenses. Do they have a strong melee attack? Try to set up OA's for them. Do they need mobility, cover, etc?

PhoenixPhyre
2022-06-03, 06:30 PM
I'd say it depends on what type of unit you are attached to. Probably could do it by school. It's basically a more caster focused EK.


Size of the squad? What will your squad be fighting? Other squads? Much larger forces? The enemy's weak spots?

Illusions, obscurement, harmful zones, terrain altering features, teleports, there are too many things you might want to count on on top of the best evocation and abjuration options. It always helps (because it narrows the available options so it's easy to throw suggestions without writing an essay) if you know what you'll be fighting, so in this case on if you want to specialize the squad in a certain way.

Generally, the idea is that this is a style of magic designed for warfare against other humanoid armies (sorta branching off the Hobgoblin Devastator, except a PC class). With some allowance for "they've got a dragon" or "the forest is alive and wants to eat us" because fantasy world.

That's actually what the subclasses are supposed to be. So far I've got

* Heavy Infantry -- specializing in protection and buffing. The squad does the killing (ok, mostly holding ground), the mage is there to make sure they don't crumple.
* Special Forces -- infiltration and precision strikes. More of a stealth/rogue sort. Get in, hurt the enemy, get out.
* Artillery/Archery -- MORE DAKKA. Your classic "I blow things up/no kill like overkill" aoe mage.
* <Despoilers> (need a better name) -- Fighting magical things. This is the more direct damage/vampiric type, mixing in some necromancy (of the "does necrotic damage/keeps you from healing" variety, not the "raising undead" variety). Personally tough, great at melting single targets.

But I'm looking at the core list, which should be more focused around your basic evocations and defensive stuff, with some "useful for military life" things thrown in. These aren't your namby pamby illusionists--information warfare is Someone Else's Job. Their job is to hit things with magic and make sure their boys can keep hitting things.

Note: these are not generalists. They're very specialized. On purpose. There will be other classes that handle the other parts (or some of them: enchantment specialization never made sense on a wizard in the first place--isn't that what a bard is for? How does being smart help you be charming? If it's supposed to, I missed out somewhere and no one told the nerds.)

stoutstien
2022-06-03, 06:46 PM
I do like like the progression plan. Im working on something similar for a player who wants a dual magic wielding war mage motif. I'm cutting of normal progress at lv 10 but they get stuff like casting cantrips as a bonus action and combining spells like fireball with silence.

Corran
2022-06-03, 08:06 PM
* Heavy Infantry -- specializing in protection and buffing. The squad does the killing (ok, mostly holding ground), the mage is there to make sure they don't crumple.
That's a toughie. Most things I can think of dont fall into the wizard's list (or theme; eg healing), and those that do and would support the idea (eg heroism) wont be effective (because you need a high value ally to make use of buffs that target one or a few allies. Ok, I'll assume a reasonably size force of 15-20 as a minimum (probably higher, so this will influence my choices.

Fog cloud is a good way to facilitate retreat/repositioning, by hopefully cancelling OA's (assuming your force is trained enough to move coordinatively enough when under obscurement). It can also spare you some pain if you get the opportunity for a good placement. Wind wall could help against archer fire, darkness could help reduce incoming damage while positioning yourself or when fleeing. AoE's are obviously good in such scenarios, especially those that have an ongoing effect (eg wall of fire, storm/watery sphere). For example wall of fire, other than doing massive damage and breaking enemy formations in half with it you could also use it to protect a flank ifyou are really desperate (while also blocking vision to some extent from the same direction). Lighting bolt could be particularly nasty (against tidy formations) if you find a good angle for it (also while not necessarily optimal, it might be cool to coordinate your squad sidestepping at the same time for you to throw a lightning bolt after which they again close formation). Fear can be particularly nasty. Finding a way to avoid friendly fire would make it a LOT better, but even without it, using something like fear to set up numerous OA's from your squad might be very satisfying because it gives you the sense of using them effectively. You'll get extra value out of web too by imposing both disadvantage and advantage to numerous enemies and allies respectively, though placing it could be tricky. At the very least you need a very steady line. Slow might be useful too, especially if you dont have ways to avoid friendly fire on more potent AoE's. Your troops rely on hitting AC can work well with slow, though it will be a lot better if the troops you are facing have multiattack. Confusion sounds very right for breaking an enemy squad, and it would be pretty decent against big enemy number anyway (not the best, but good). Arcane gate might actually have some value here because of numbers (yes, a higher level spell but I had to mention it; you dont come up every day with potential good scenarios for this spell).


* Special Forces -- infiltration and precision strikes. More of a stealth/rogue sort. Get in, hurt the enemy, get out.
I'll asume a smaller squad for this. Writing them as they come into my head (excluding information gathering as per the op): teleportation circle, invisibility, seeming (especially if combined with malleable illusions), rope trick, enhance ability, see invisibility, detect magic, dispel magic, message, mage hand, (pass without a trace and silence; not wizard spells but mentioning them as ideas if spell research is on the table), charm monster (dominate spells have a very limited duration with up to 5th level slots, so they are probably out), spider climb/gaseous form/fly, alarm, maybe a few summons to act as distractions or for any special abilities, stone shape, passwall, generally there are too many spells that could be used for infiltration. Precision strikes during combat probably means you've got the damage output and you need mobility or some added defense in order to make risk taking more justifiable. Since I am thinking about a smaller squad here, the likes of longstrider, phantom steed may be justified. Hold person/monster too I guess, since they can help getting a quick kill. Protection from poison combined with a stinking cloud. Web combined with the equivalent of freedom of movement. Fog cloud darkness combined with bonus action hiding if your squad has access to something like cunning action. Generally you are looking ways to create an advantageous situations in a pinch so you can surprise the enemy by being more able that they anticipated and thus by carrying out a precision strike they didn't think you were able to or that you would dare.



* Artillery/Archery -- MORE DAKKA. Your classic "I blow things up/no kill like overkill" aoe mage.
Sculpt sickening radiance or something along those lines is a good way to ensure your archer (sub)squad wont be engaged in melee. Counterspell for hopefully negating the AoE's you just invited. Anything that slows down enemies can be good, so stuff like transmute rock, web, slow, fear, the equivalent of plant growth, etc, these all can be good for backing up an archer squad by keeping them out of danger and able to keep shooting. Anything that restrains is also good for upping their damage (you want both single target and multiple target debuffs here, cause sometimes you may want your archer squad to focus on a single big threat). Winning the vision battle when there is one might be enough to give you vicotry sometimes. Darkvision (if no one has it, then the one who gets may shoot flaming arrows or something like that to enable everyone else shooting), dancing lights, unseen servants/familiars with light sources, etc. Darkness (which you can turn on and off) could be handy for protecting your archers from ranged enemies. Mold earth for preparing the battlefield whenever able (good for everyone but better for an archer squad because of the the greater disadavantage that being engaged in melee). Silent image and minor illusion for creating "cover", later on something like wall spells could be better for that. Edit: Telekinesis!


* <Despoilers> (need a better name) -- Fighting magical things. This is the more direct damage/vampiric type, mixing in some necromancy (of the "does necrotic damage/keeps you from healing" variety, not the "raising undead" variety). Personally tough, great at melting single targets.
Is this one without a squad?

PhoenixPhyre
2022-06-03, 08:26 PM
That's a toughie. Most things I can think of dont fall into the wizard's list (or theme; eg healing), and those that do and would support the idea (eg heroism) wont be effective (because you need a high value ally to make use of buffs that target one or a few allies. Ok, I'll assume a reasonably size force of 15-20 as a minimum (probably higher, so this will influence my choices.

Fog cloud is a good way to facilitate retreat/repositioning, by hopefully cancelling OA's (assuming your force is trained enough to move coordinatively enough when under obscurement). It can also spare you some pain if you get the opportunity for a good placement. Wind wall could help against archer fire, darkness could help reduce incoming damage while positioning yourself or when fleeing. AoE's are obviously good in such scenarios, especially those that have an ongoing effect (eg wall of fire, storm/watery sphere). For example wall of fire, other than doing massive damage and breaking enemy formations in half with it you could also use it to protect a flank ifyou are really desperate (while also blocking vision to some extent from the same direction). Lighting bolt could be particularly nasty (against tidy formations) if you find a good angle for it (also while not necessarily optimal, it might be cool to coordinate your squad sidestepping at the same time for you to throw a lightning bolt after which they again close formation). Fear can be particularly nasty. Finding a way to avoid friendly fire would make it a LOT better, but even without it, using something like fear to set up numerous OA's from your squad might be very satisfying because it gives you the sense of using them effectively. You'll get extra value out of web too by imposing both disadvantage and advantage to numerous enemies and allies respectively, though placing it could be tricky. At the very least you need a very steady line. Slow might be useful too, especially if you dont have ways to avoid friendly fire on more potent AoE's. Your troops rely on hitting AC can work well with slow, though it will be a lot better if the troops you are facing have multiattack. Confusion sounds very right for breaking an enemy squad, and it would be pretty decent against big enemy number anyway (not the best, but good). Arcane gate might actually have some value here because of numbers (yes, a higher level spell but I had to mention it; you dont come up every day with potential good scenarios for this spell).


Bonus spells I have planned for this squad assignment (ie subclass) do include some off-list spells, including healing word and mass cure wounds. I'd missed wind wall because it's not natively a wizard spell.



I'll asume a smaller squad for this. Writing them as they come into my head (excluding information gathering as per the op): teleportation circle, invisibility, seeming (especially if combined with malleable illusions), rope trick, enhance ability, see invisibility, detect magic, dispel magic, message, mage hand, (pass without a trace and silence; not wizard spells but mentioning them as ideas if spell research is on the table), charm monster (dominate spells have a very limited duration with up to 5th level slots, so they are probably out), spider climb/gaseous form/fly, alarm, maybe a few summons to act as distractions or for any special abilities, stone shape, passwall, generally there are too many spells that could be used for infiltration. Precision strikes during combat probably means you've got the damage output and you need mobility or some added defense in order to make risk taking more justifiable. Since I am thinking about a smaller squad here, the likes of longstrider, phantom steed may be justified. Hold person/monster too I guess, since they can help getting a quick kill. Protection from poison combined with a stinking cloud. Web combined with the equivalent of freedom of movement. Fog cloud darkness combined with bonus action hiding if your squad has access to something like cunning action. Generally you are looking ways to create an advantageous situations in a pinch so you can surprise the enemy by being more able that they anticipated and thus by carrying out a precision strike they didn't think you were able to or that you would dare.


I'm planning to add pass without trace to the list here as a bonus spell. I think I'll add a few more mobility-oriented ones to the list though.



Sculpt sickening radiance or something along those lines is a good way to ensure your archer (sub)squad wont be engaged in melee. Counterspell for hopefully negating the AoE's you just invited. Anything that slows down enemies can be good, so stuff like transmute rock, web, slow, fear, the equivalent of plant growth, etc, these all can be good for backing up an archer squad by keeping them out of danger and able to keep shooting. Anything that restrains is also good for upping their damage (you want both single target and multiple target debuffs here, cause sometimes you may want your archer squad to focus on a single big threat). Winning the vision battle when there is one might be enough to give you vicotry sometimes. Darkvision (if no one has it, then the one who gets may shoot flaming arrows or something like that to enable everyone else shooting), dancing lights, unseen servants/familiars with light sources, etc. Darkness (which you can turn on and off) could be handy for protecting your archers from ranged enemies. Mold earth for preparing the battlefield whenever able (good for everyone but better for an archer squad because of the the greater disadavantage that being engaged in melee). Silent image and minor illusion for creating "cover", later on something like wall spells could be better for that. Edit: Telekinesis!
[QUOTE]

I was thinking of this one more as a pure blaster/glass canon (their subclass abilities are the classic evoker/more damage ones).

Is this one without a squad?

The last would be part of a very small, specialized squad. Effectively the special forces...without the infiltration. They're the Tank-hunter/specialized weapons team, called on to take on the big nasty things. Compared to the archer/artillery whose job it is to blanket the battlefield in fire, this one is more...focused.

Witty Username
2022-06-03, 08:32 PM
Assuming a 9th level mage.
The first spells are personal defense, as a dead mage is a worthless mage.
Mage armor, Shield and Absorb elements would form the basis.
Then the offensive role, damage spells like fireball and Cone of Cold fit, but so do spells like hypnotic pattern and fear. Whether the wizard has one or the other will depend on their role and the support they have. I would recommend at least one concentration spell to maintain lasting effect in this category, Evard's Black Tentacles is a good option.
Past that, we want to fill in with situational spells, counterspell and Dispel Magic for enemy mages, Misty Step and dimension door for positioning.
Note that the spells the mage wants will change as they go up in level, as they get more options and spell slots.

For example thunderwave will stop being a good pick after about 5th level, but until then it is a good example of an offensive spell needed to perform the role.

sambojin
2022-06-03, 08:54 PM
I'd look at some support spells, just because they're so recurrent in warfare. You're a specialist in a field, why not have Guidance available to assist your troops? Or Create Bonfire? You damn well need to move, even while having heavy support going, why not have Expeditious Retreat? Why would you not be the back-up Pass without Trace man, but dropping it the moment your skillset came up spell-wise? A rolling ball of fire, sure, put Flaming Sphere in there. It whittles down stuff as well as anything else at that level, and is a great distraction/ unkillable robot. But also have Jump on there, because there is stuff you'll need to pop up onto. Maybe Spider Climb as well.

Tensors Floating Disc: you have a floating robotic bag/kit carrier following you. Soldiers hate carrying all that stuff when they're dismounted. And it is a ritual.

Hell, put "Call-in Expert, now!/ Summon Fey" on there, so you can really sap them out while doing your things. Teleport/ make them charmed, so you can just non-spell/action-use the hell out of them, with an insidious kit (it's not like the Fey can't use one too). But you've got plenty of instants as well. But sometimes, you need someone that can talk/move, so get on the blower and get someone in for that, now!

Throw Tidal Wave on there. It is "EMP bomb". Lights out, drops things from the air, prones stuff, causes damage too (and is very targetable, because it's *up-to* 30'*10'*10', anything smaller than that is fine too).

I'd even put "Call-in Combat Medics, now!/ Conjure Woodland Beings" on there. But the only three choices are 2* Dryads or 2* Alseids or 2* SMG Quicklings. Still a very good spell. Either heal it, or sort it, problem solved.
(Maybe do a "make the thingy" with 8*Brigganocks able to be done, way out of combat, if that ever comes up. Like "call-in engineering corps, now!')
((Maybe even put a 1*Naiad *has a Fly spell* for the "Call in extraction force, now!" onto the list. Five choices, one spell, covers pretty much everything "Army" on the ground, regardless of terrain. So Conjure Woodland Beings is "call in my entire army, other than Experts, so it works for me. I'm a Wizard too, and have heaps of spell slots". Submarines sit in different planes, in this sorta stuff. Oh, you had stuff in the Feywild to call in? Well.... F*))

I'd really have to learn where you're going with the class/es, before I could truly give advice on it.

Corran
2022-06-03, 09:05 PM
Bonus spells I have planned for this squad assignment (ie subclass) do include some off-list spells, including healing word and mass cure wounds. I'd missed wind wall because it's not natively a wizard spell.
Did I say wind wall? I meant warding wind. Mass cure wounds certainly feels at home. This subclass anyway gave me a very clericy vibe. Aura of vitality could be good if you dont have a problem (partly) refluffing it as encouragement/ leadership. Maybe a version of inspiring leader as a subclass feature? Have a total pool or temp hp you can spread around and choose how you'll do it (probably with a max per target to avoid shenannighans). Maybe a bit gamy but if you make up any rules for formation fighting it might be good for giving you options to use these temp hp to boost, say, the flanks or the middle.




I'm planning to add pass without trace to the list here as a bonus spell. I think I'll add a few more mobility-oriented ones to the list though.
Makes sense.



The last would be part of a very small, specialized squad. Effectively the special forces...without the infiltration. They're the Tank-hunter/specialized weapons team, called on to take on the big nasty things. Compared to the archer/artillery whose job it is to blanket the battlefield in fire, this one is more...focused.
Hmm, I guess some transmutation magic to turn their weapons silver might help? Magic weapon but as a 5th level spell that targets weapon within an area? Mass protection from evil/ mass heroism? From other lists you could maybe look at spells like heroes' feast and circle of power.

PhoenixPhyre
2022-06-03, 11:43 PM
As a reference point, here's the very rough, still very WIP, needing tons of polish and balance (you've been warned) 0.5'th draft of the class: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/PiDBSNRPLLcP

sambojin
2022-06-03, 11:53 PM
Very much edited my original post. It'd be funny putting a blurb on "why only things like this can be summoned", etc etc on the spells I've suggested. Yet why it is necessary for every military wizard to have someone wiser and more charismatic than themselves on-call for heavy tasks in this sub/class. Military implies a structure. Wizards do understand that, sometimes, with spell slots and situations and stuff.

So, bigger spell list for the class.
Guidance cantrip.
Expeditious Retreat and Jump at spell level 1. Tensor's Disc as an auto-ritual.
Pass without Trace and Spider Climb at spell level 2.
Call-in "Expert/Summon Fey" at spell level 3 and basic Tidal Wave at spell level 3. Tidal Wave could possibly be upcasted.
Call-in "Army Support/ Conjure Woodland Beings" at spell level 4.
(2* Dryads/ Quicklings/ Alseids or 1* Naiads only, 8x Brigganocks possible well-outside of combat situations, and *bamf* back to Feywild if there is ever combat near them).
Double attack Expert at lvl4 spells too, but also double Army Support at lvl6 spells (call in two choices, or one double).
Call-in "Air-support"/ Summon Draconic Spirit at spell level 5.

Pretty good spell focus, that Radio. Literally every one of those summons is considered a "Combat Medic", in any blow-back from the media in hitting some targets too hard.

You could, but it's just a military operation.

Sigreid
2022-06-04, 11:43 AM
I'd be looking mostly at spells that incapacitate enemies or help with quick fortifications. Move earth is more valuable than firebolt. Hypnotic pattern, stinking cloud and cloud kill have the potential to change a battle on a grand scale. Wall of stone is better than wall of fire as it's an instant fortified location, etc.

Kemev
2022-06-04, 10:35 PM
If you were a wizard picking cantrips - 5th level spells with the understanding that your character was a specialist trained to support military forces, what spells would you choose?

...

Restrictions: the thematics here are for non-nonsense, tactical support.

It depends on how you think of tactical support. Even elite infantry don't spend most of their time fighting, and when they do, it's kind of a stretch to say D&D style spells would be great direct support. Spell ranges tend to cap at 120ft, which is short (not even half a football field). A basic longbow has short range of 150 ft, max of 600. On top of that, a 9th level wizard only has 10 spell slots; that's "ammunition" for 1 minute of contact.

On the other hand, being deployed with a wizard would be pretty much the best thing ever. Prestidigitation is like God's gift to infantry. Unlimited clean clothes forever? Tasty food made to order wherever whenever? And someone mentioned it already, but Mold Earth? Amazing. Digging 5 cubic feet with a shovel is miserable, but a wizard can snap his fingers and have an instant foxhole.

As for actual combat, the biggest swings are going to be effects that can immediately reshape the battlefield in your side's favor. Something like Passwall or Transmute Rock to breach a fortification, a wall/cloud effect to protect your squad, Teleportation for emergency retreat or evacuation.

Kane0
2022-06-05, 05:57 AM
If you were a wizard picking cantrips - 5th level spells with the understanding that your character was a specialist trained to support military forces, what spells would you choose? Not necessarily to prepare, but to have available.


Cantrips: Acid Splash, Blade Ward, Booming Blade, Chill Touch, Firebolt, Frostbite, Greenflame Blade, Mending, Primal Savagery, Ray of Frost, Resistance, Shocking Grasp, Sword Burst, Thunderclap, True Strike
1st level: Absorb Elements, Armor of Agathys, Burning Hands, Catapult, Cause Fear, Chromatic Orb, Earth Tremor, Faerie Fire, False Life, Fog Cloud, Guiding Bolt, Ice Knife, Inflict Wounds, Magic Missile, Protection from Good/Evil, Ray of Sickness, Shield, Thunderwave, Witch Bolt
2nd level: Scorcher, Blur, Cloud of Daggers, Cordon of Arrows, Find Steed, Flame Blade, Flaming Sphere, Heat Metal, Hold Person, Magic Weapon, Earthen Grasp, Acid Arrow, Pyrotechnics, Ray of Enfeeblement, Scorching Ray, Shadow Blade, Shatter, Snowball Swarm, Warding Bond
3rd level: Conjure Barrage, Counterspell, Elemental Weapon, Erupting Earth, Fear, Fireball, Flame Arrows, Life Transference, Lightning Bolt, Minute Meteors, Protection from Energy, Sleet Storm, Slow, Stinking Cloud, Thunder Step, Tidal Wave, Vampiric Touch, Wall of Sand, Wall of Water, Wind Wall
4th level: Blight, Dimension Door, Elemental Bane, Black Tentacles, Fire Shield, Ice Storm, Resilient Sphere, Sickening Radiance, Stoneskin, Storm Sphere, Vitriolic Sphere, Wall of Fire, Watery Sphere
5th level: Bigbys Hand, Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Conjure Volley, Destructive Wave, Enervation, Flame Strike, Holy Weapon, Immolation, Maelstrom, Negative Energy Flood, Steel Wind Strike, Synaptic Static, Wall of Force, Wall of Light, Wall of Stone, Wrath of Nature

Corran
2022-06-05, 08:05 AM
Lightning bolt for the wizard with the archer squad! Much like in wars with muskets, enemy squads moving close to archers would probably do so in column formations, for providing more cover to their troops (assuming your squad targets almost simultaneously and they dont take their sweet time firing one by one - which is something that initiative technically allows for but eh). It's natural to assume that in a world where also magic exists (eg lightning bolt) the column formation is not a great idea, so this might not play out like that. But giving the wizard lightning bolt might at least explain why this isn't happening, and maybe showcase why it's a bad idea if it ever happens.

KorvinStarmast
2022-06-06, 10:00 AM
Some ideas:
Fog Cloud (it gets bigger when upcast)
Hallucinatory Terrain for setting ambushes.
Faerie Fire{1}
See Invisibility
Sickening Radiance{1}

{1} = these help light up / identify enemies who may be able hide try or turn invisible.

A comment about the scouting and reconnaissance function.

For any military unit, small, medium, or large the requirement for scouting and reconnaissance is a substantial element of mission success.

This leads me to utility spells like:

Find Familiar: get that owl or eagle up in the air and see what's coming. Or a bat.

See Invisibility (already noted) since you are in a magical world as it is.

Arcane Eye: longer range scouting. It lasts for an hour. 30' movement.

As an action, you can move the eye up to 30 feet in any direction. There is no limit to how far away from you the eye can move, but it can’t enter another plane of existence. A solid barrier blocks the eye’s movement, but the eye can pass through an opening as small as 1 inch in diameter.

Hallucinatory Terrain: foil the enemy's scouting / recon. Lasts for a day.
Fog Cloud: similarly foils the enemy's ability to see your troops.

Confusion: break up the front line/center of an advancing enemy formation. If some of them start attacking each other, so much the better. :smallsmile: Even better if combined with an invisibility aided infiltration (see below); when the attack is made confusion on the enemy makes the attacking squad's job much easier.

And lastly two of my favorites:
invisibility. Upcast to level 5 that turns 4 of your squad/spec ops troops invisible, which makes infiltration a more viable tactic in some offensive tactical situation.

light cantrip
You put it on an arrow and then loose it. Lights up the target on a hit until / unless the target pulls the arrow/bolt out. Yes, it's a niche use but I've seen it used in numerous groups.

Getting close to an enemy and applying the light cantrip to them by touch is probably not what your war mage is interested in doing, as that gets them into melee and they are supporting the troops.

ImproperJustice
2022-06-07, 12:01 AM
I ran a soldier War Wizard several campaigns ago with this exact same mind set.
The concept was that he would function as part of a unit and his primary goal was to ensure the safety of his allies and himself while maximizing their means of doing damage to that end, his chief setup was:

Level 1: Shield, Absorb Elements, Fog Cloud, Cause Fear.

The first two keep you alive when things go bad. Fog Cloud is ideal for defensive cover, or offensive cover, and upcast can really aid in infiltration.
Cause Fear is for breaking through enemy lines.

Level 2: Shatter, Phantasmal Force, Misty Step, See Invisibility

The small area of shatter makes it easy to aim. P. Force for tough physical targets, the latter two as defensive spells.

Level 3: Dispel Magic, Counterspell, and slow.
If you shut down enemy magic, you allow the rest of your team to do what they do best. Slow is just so easy to aim, and works on almost everything.

Level 4: so many good choices, but I went with Dimension Door and Sickening Radiance.

Level 5: Synaptic Static for damage and control.
Wall of Light for damage, obscurement, and ease of aim.

Your mileage may vary, but this felt like a good mix of offense, defense, utility, and control and helped set up other team mates for success for our party which was very melee heavy.

Bobthewizard
2022-06-07, 09:25 PM
I'd add some communication to let the main forces know what's going on:
Skywrite for tactical communication, come up with codes first
Sending for long range communication. This spell would have won so many historical wars.
Rary's telepathic bond

Others spells that would be useful for a small, elite squad:
Leomunds tiny hut for resting, alarm at early levels.
Mold earth/stone shape/passwall/wall of stone/move earth for making fortifications and digging under the enemy defenses
Find familiar, invisibility, fly, and arcane eye for short range scouting
Fog cloud, sleet storm for cover

I'd add some of those to an evoker for sculpted shatter, fireball, sickening radiance, wall of fire. Then some personal defensive spells to help you stay alive - some of mage armor, shield, absorb elements, misty step, counterspell, dispel magic, dimension door.

greenstone
2022-06-07, 09:56 PM
…to support military forces

Some ideas for support magics.

Comprehend languages, for interrogating locals (prisners, informants, suppliers, etc).
Find familiar, for camp chores. Familiar, go outside and adjust that tent guy.
Skywrite and sending, for long range communication.
Animate dead. Make dead enemy soldiers dig your picket lines.
Leomund's Tiny Hut, for resting. As a bonus, put the most wounded soldiers and a medic in the hut with you for some uninterrupted healing.

KorvinStarmast
2022-06-08, 07:42 AM
Rats, I forgot to add alarm.

It's a ritual. Both it and Magic Mouth can be used to secure one's bivouac.

NotPrior
2022-06-10, 06:34 AM
This is an interesting question and I'd be lying if I said I'd never considered it before.

Let's say for every wizard of hit dice X we also have at least 10 martials of hit dice X. Lets also assume that every army here uses some magic.

First of all, no or very few damage spells. Juicy super AoEs are not going to work as well as they would have against real armies, because these people arent stupid and they're going to be spaced out as a result (incidentally this means that having any wizards at all, even weak ones, is a huge advantage over a magic free army since you automatically win frontage comparisons).

Wizards would be effective as magical artillery in groups, or as some kind of strike team, but they'd burn themselves out incredibly quickly- wizards do not even get 1 minute of useful damage spells. Yes a powerful wizard can cast fireballs, disintegrates, cones of cold and shatters for a few minutes, but most of those are low level spells for the wizard's level. The equally leveled martial can do enormously more damage over the course of a day. As a result if wizard's arent doing surgical attacks they shouldn't be focusing on damage. There arent enough spell slots to clear out an army. If a wizard is supporting martial troops then the martials can do better damage, and do it for longer.

Instead, just like in an adventuring party, a wizard's value is probably in doing what can only be done with magic. Teleportation is the huge one, as is paralyzing enemy monsters and charming war beasts- an elephant would absolutely kill its own troops, it doesnt understand allegiance beyond its master.

animorte
2022-06-10, 08:50 AM
First of all, no or very few damage spells. Juicy super AoEs are not going to work as well as they would have against real armies, because these people arent stupid and they're going to be spaced out as a result.

Instead, just like in an adventuring party, a wizard's value is probably in doing what can only be done with magic. Teleportation is the huge one, as is paralyzing enemy monsters and charming war beasts- an elephant would absolutely kill its own troops, it doesnt understand allegiance beyond its master.

Not to mention that your AoE is only valuable if the armies have not actually begun fighting yet. Sure, toss a Fireball at the front line as they're rushing in.

Otherwise I would think using battlefield control to keep them at bay while your archers lay into them, not that they couldn’t do the same.

Prepare various things like Alarm to keep your blind spots covered. Also using familiars and the like to scout enemy positions.

Present some odd illusions of maybe obvious traps that the enemy will intentionally avoid, you essentially herding them to their own disadvantage.

Buffs for massive amounts of your Allie’s perhaps. I could totally see a couple Paladins or Clerics placed randomly through the battlefield creating multiple pockets of extreme advantage.

Sigreid
2022-06-10, 11:53 AM
Not to mention that your AoE is only valuable if the armies have not actually begun fighting yet. Sure, toss a Fireball at the front line as they're rushing in.

Otherwise I would think using battlefield control to keep them at bay while your archers lay into them, not that they couldn’t do the same.

Prepare various things like Alarm to keep your blind spots covered. Also using familiars and the like to scout enemy positions.

Present some odd illusions of maybe obvious traps that the enemy will intentionally avoid, you essentially herding them to their own disadvantage.

Buffs for massive amounts of your Allie’s perhaps. I could totally see a couple Paladins or Clerics placed randomly through the battlefield creating multiple pockets of extreme advantage.

Counterpoint, if the armies still use the pre- guns formations, a fireball past the first like and into the back line that's waiting for their turn on the front would be fantastic. And even after guns went into common use it was about a hundred years before armies realized they should stop forming up into block formations.

PhoenixPhyre
2022-06-10, 12:13 PM
My concept for this (Homebrewery updated here https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/PiDBSNRPLLcP) is that the Warmage is effectively a "special weapons" team member. Providing both firepower that the particular squad may not have (especially AoE effects, if nothing else but to keep people from massing effectively--breaking up formations when you're depending on melee fighting really hurts your output) and defensive measures.

The "combat model" is mostly organized at the fireteam (using US Marine terms, ie 3-6 people) level[1]. Effectively, in most cases the Warmage is the machine gunner of the fireteam + a defensive specialist. The subclasses vary the model a bit--

* Heavy Infantry is exactly that, but a bit more defensive. Can protect allies. Acts like a heavy-gish.
* Special Forces is more of an infiltration-enabler who can still provide close fire support as needed. Dex-gish
* Artillery is basically an aoe gun, adding in to the archery or siege equipment of the squad. Not very gishy at all.
* Heavy Assault is a tank-ish gish, but tanking by THP and healing while focusing on dealing heavy damage to single big targets. Because in a fantasy world, the threat model isn't just other armies, it's rampaging monsters (or armies including big monsters)

[1] conveniently, that's in the range of an adventuring party!

Slipjig
2022-06-10, 01:49 PM
I've always thought that battlefield wizards would develop very different sets of magic than adventuring wizards, for a lot of the reasons described above. You'd probably have a lot more spells that have a longer duration or a wider AoE. In a massed formation, a small buff to 1,000 people is generally more useful than a big buff on three. Also, there's no 10-minute adventuring day when the enemy gets a vote.

Frogreaver
2022-06-12, 07:14 AM
Fog Cloud would be amazing
Most Wall Spells would be great
Continual Flame - more strategic than tactic but would be well worth
Communication is key for tactical war - spells like Skywrite, Sending, etc would be key
Glyph of Warding allows for some amazing defenses
Water Breathing for Special Forces style units
Control Water is very good for warfare
Fabricate might prove very useful for special forces as well

Obviously, there are some other great spells but these are some that haven't been mentioned much that would be great for a military wizard.

ImproperJustice
2022-06-12, 07:59 AM
This thread got me to thinking that a team of wizards / clerics working as an engineering team with spells like Mold Earth, Shape Water, Fabricate, Passwall, Dimension Door, Transmute Rock, and the various hut, tower, and castle spells could be invaluable in sieges, and the construction of features to change terrain in an army’s favor.

Keravath
2022-06-12, 09:32 AM
One thing to consider is scale. Almost every spell is small scale. A fireball with a 20' radius seems fine with small group encounters but when you start discussing armies it is very small because the scale is different.

Here are some thoughts ..
Every army mage should have the following cantrips - Mold Earth, Mending, Prestidigitation, Message and Firebolt.

Mold Earth - fortifications are crucial to armies and the ability to quickly give the troops 1/2 or 3/4 cover is essential
Mending - gear breaks and it is too far to go back to a supply base to get a new sword or fix a rent in armor during a fight
Prestidigitation - troop morale is essential - warm, clean, dry troops are much happier
Message - the mage needs a way to pass messages to the troops in their group and ideally back up the line - 120' range helps with this - you don't need to be able to see the target if you know the direction they are in. Allows scouting reports too.
Firebolt - all purpose damage and start camp fires

Having multiple damage cantrips really doesn't help an army much.

In terms of spells -
Fog Cloud is one of the few spells that scales up to a level usable at an army scale. In addition, it works well with groups of soldiers trained in Blind Fighting - even a fighter 1 can have this fighting style so it shouldn't be that uncommon in an army. Defensively, if the opponents can't operate in a fog cloud then it allows troops to reposition without opportunity attacks and if they can successfully hide while doing so the opponents will lose track of where they are.

Fireball, Cone of Cold both somewhat useless at army scale except for shock and awe tactics, hitting creatures at a choke point, or tactical squad level use since the AoE is so small.

Sickening Radiance could be useful for creating a temporary choke point. If you want to block or redirect an advance it creates an area the opponents might want to avoid. It is also 30' radius and lasts 10 minutes so more applicable to armies.

One big issue with many spells is their short duration. Some only last 1 minute which really only makes them good for a small scale active skirmish on a squad level rather than larger engagements. For a mage supporting an army, their spell slots are a valuable resource that would only be used in an emergency or as part of a plan. A battle could last hours with occasional lulls but there could be very limited opportunities for a wizard to regain resources.

Both the spatial and time scales of army engagements work against the usual capabilities of most wizards which are more suited to smaller spatial scales and much shorter encounters.


Other good spells -
Fly and Invisibility for scouting - invisibility is particularly good since it lasts an hour - invisiblity upcast might also be good for a small ambush.

Clairvoyance - 10 minutes - range of a mile - good for scouting but location is fixed.

Arcane Eye - much better than clairvoyance in most ways - lasts an hour - unlimited distance - vision only so the Observant feat and lip reading ability becomes much more valuable.

See Invisibility, True Seeing - counters to opponents using similar tactics

Tongues - ability to understand opponents language.

Hallucinatory Terrain - set things up to look different to an attacker. Lasts 24 hours. However, as soon as opponents start to move through the area it is likely they will realize it is an illusion since they will stub their toe on a rock that isn't there or walk through an image of a rock - either of which will reveal the illusion even assuming that the enemy scouts aren't specifically examining the terrain for illusions before the opponents advance.

Wall of Force - 10 minutes - up to 100' long, 10' high - provides cover from weapon attacks and also can channel opponents movement and block their advance. Bonus points since they won't know it is there until the lead elements of the charge run into it.

Wall of Fire - similar area denial to wall of force except that troops could move through it while taking damage - on the other hand, for most typical low level NPCs or PCs - the damage sustained would be too much to make it worthwhile. However, duration is only 1 minute so it is only useful for battlefield tactical use only.

Wall of Stone - possibly much more useful for army encounters depending on typical army equipment. If the troops come with some pickaxes/hammers they will be able to break through with some work but typical swords are more likely to get damaged themselves trying to break down a wall of stone. In addition, after 10 minutes it becomes permanent so it is an extremely useful spell for putting together fortifications for the army on short notice - this makes it an essential pick.

---

Even Meteor Swarm, a 9th level spell, which is a bigger scale - would also have only a limited effect on an army that could have several thousand combatants. It only creates 4 areas with 40' radius (80' diameter) within a mile distance - so it could be used to take out certain enemy assets. However, opponents are likely to know the risk and will space out their forces during the approach. Defenders have to space out as well so the effects on opposing formations will tend to cancel out - D&D fantasy armies will tend to avoid troop concentrations to some extent since they know they have to limit the damage due to magical effects. However, both sides also know that magic support is likely to be limited. High level PCs/NPCs aren't usually that common which will limit their impact.

Number of army wizards is also something you need to consider. Does every 20 person squad have a wizard? In a 1000 person cohort that would be 50 wizards, for a typical army of 10,000 - it would be 500 wizards. Just how common are wizards and other leveled classes in your world?

Phhase
2022-06-12, 08:32 PM
No question, Control Water. You can raise up 20ft of water in a 100ft cube and things only get crazier from there. Force the water into the ground with redirect, create a huuuuuge area of quicksand. That might cause buildings to sink into the ground. Hell, depending on your reading of redirect, with a big enough water source, you could raise up a massive 100ft cube of water above a target and do a massive drop. And being able to create 100ft cubes of clear space is basically an instant win in any nautical scenario. Not to mention, it lasts a healthy 10 minutes!