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Pyrophilios
2022-06-04, 01:17 PM
Recently I've been pondering what an Genie Warlock could do with their 17th level mystic arcanum if given enough time.

(For the matter of this discussion I'm assuming going by pure RAW - especially in regards to mystic arcanums being not spell slots and its interaction with simulacrum. If you disagree that is fine, but this thread might not be the best place to have a discussion about it)

For this exercise I'm assuming an Eladrin (MPMM), Cloistered Scholar, Dao Genie Tome Warlock 17

Upon reaching lvl 17 and chosing wish as your final mystic arcanum, you are told you have 1 year and 1 day of downtime. After that you are facing progressively stronger opponents that seek you out and try to kill you.

So the first thing you do is wish for a simulacrum of you that regains their own MA everyday with you, giving you access to 2 wish spells per day and 2 limited wishes every 2.5 days.

As your 8th level arcanum you already took Demiplane. So come day 2 you set up a clone via the clone spell while you send out your simulacrum to find a dire troll and magic jar the beast, so your simulacrum has a durable form that actually heals when damaged. (Finding one is likely an exercise in using divination rituals - i.e. Commune and Diviniation). The simulacrum then casts Sequester on its original body to keep it save (with losing the troll body as the end condition).

Meanwhile, you conjure once every 7 days a Mighty Fortress to make it permanent after a year
Your Simulacrum is put on Forbiddance duty - casting the spell every day for 30 days on your fortress

After that you add a Hallow effect (Silence is pretty effective against spell casters - or maybe force vulnerability)

Over the next 30 days your Simulacrum is on Symbol duty - placing 10 symbols each of sleep, insanity and hopelessness around your fortress with appropriate triggers.

After that the Simulacrum goes about creating 16 Magen (Galvan+Hypnos), costing it 64 permanent hp from it's original body to gain a somewhat more substantial guard for your fortress. Add also two homunculi and two familiars, as well as find steed and find greater steed to the permantent staff.

Meanwhile you can litter the whole area with programmed illusions with your limited wish

After those two months prepwork, it's time to earn money. Druidcraft/Plantgrowth/Fabricate (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8X9L5agUfM) to create bales of linen as tradegoods - do this for a month with your simulacrum and sell the results in various cities with a quick teleport (you can use a demiplane or your genie vessel to transport the goods)

After that, you can go for crafting magic items - having every tool proficiency (due to Elf Trance) and spell available (Wish), as well as money for raw materials and being able to find most formula (Cloistered Scholar Background) - with 4 uncommon items per month and 4 rare items in 5 months.

You have still 3 months left

A good time to start casting spell glyphs with buff spells in your genie vessel, so you can go in there for a quick round of super buffs. (Since you don't need to meet any requirements of the spell, you are free to integrate any spell up to lvl 8)

Other neat things to do: Awaken a bunch of animals and plants and treat them nice enough so that they stay your friend longterm. Or more brutal: Calling a Planar Ally and using an 8th level Planar Binding to keep them around for 180 days - Arclight Phoenix is a relatively easy to catch elemental with good stats.

So, what other neat things can you come up with for this Daolock?

Rukelnikov
2022-06-04, 01:27 PM
Wouldn't it be "better" to just get a simulacrum a day and have your simulacrums make more simulacri of youself, effectively having 2^days-1 simulacri?

Pyrophilios
2022-06-04, 01:45 PM
I try to avoid recursive loops

Rukelnikov
2022-06-04, 02:06 PM
I try to avoid recursive loops

Yeah, I try to avoid Simulacrum in general because its basically a self policed power up, you can become as strong as you want.

Pyrophilios
2022-06-05, 03:33 AM
Indeed - and you aren't limited to yourself - without any material components or prerequisites, nothing is stopping you from wishing for the simulacrum of Tiamat.

Rukelnikov
2022-06-05, 03:50 AM
Its only beasts or humanoids, and the range is touch, but, you could shake hands with an extremely powerful humanoid and at that moment wish for the spell.

Pyrophilios
2022-06-05, 05:00 AM
Tiamat is a bad example, but Halaster would be perfectly fine.
Also, I just realized that the rules text is once again pretty crappily written:

"You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell."

Is the relative clause refering to the duplicate or the original? Considering it's touch range and and you are supposed to shape the duplicate, I'd think it's rather impractical to hold the hand of whoever you are trying to copy. Even touching yourself... No I'm not going there.

In any case, Wish obviates the need for any of that.
"You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect."

Rukelnikov
2022-06-05, 05:09 AM
Tiamat is a bad example, but Halaster would be perfectly fine.

Yeah, a powerful simulacrum for sure. Do note that with the great vision and design brought to us by Monsters of the multiverse, making a simulacrum of an NPC caster is extremely useful, since those don't operate on spell slots anymore, thus getting you rechargable spells ;)


Also, I just realized that the rules text is once again pretty crappily written:

"You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell."

Is the relative clause refering to the duplicate or the original? Considering it's touch range and and you are supposed to shape the duplicate, I'd think it's rather impractical to hold the hand of whoever you are trying to copy. Even touching yourself... No I'm not going there.

I assume "one beast or humanoid that is within range" means the creture you wanna copy must be within range.


In any case, Wish obviates the need for any of that.
"You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect."

I don't think you can obviate having the creature within range for the duration of the casting (in this case 1 action) since that's in the spells effect part. If you could ignore spell effect parts, then you could also obviate the creture needing to be a beast or humanoid. That's on the purview of wishing for greater effects, since its not replicating an existing 8th lvl or lower spell.

Pyrophilios
2022-06-05, 04:36 PM
The difference is that the touching part is part of the casting - which wish doesn't have - you get the effect of the spell, without all the trappings of casting it. So as long as you wish for a possible effect of a spell of 8 lvl. or lower, you get it without any side effects.
Wishing for an unlisted creature would be outside the possible effects.

Pixel_Kitsune
2022-06-05, 04:55 PM
Having a high powered Genie Lock in play (Level 1 Rogue/Level18 Efreetie Genie Tomelock Fire Genasi). I actively try not to be cheesy with wish. That said, here's what I do have going.

I have a simulacrum active at almost all times. It's not with me, it's usually back at the character's home estate running things while I'm adventuring, or it gets sent if there's reasonably two places I need to be at the same time. I don't cheese multiple copies or anything of that sort, just have one up and running as a very useful tool.

I used it to cast Demiplane along with one risky use of it to make a Permanent gate via a magic item to said Demiplane.

I used Sequestor to hide said Demiplane and various things in it.

I have Clone going, technically have several, but 1 is all you really need.

Beyond that I use it to make sure my character has essentially infinite funds and reliable guards at my group's homes or bases. Essentially any downtime day Wish doesn't come up when I'm around a base I awaken one of the trees (Currently have 17). If I'm not at home and I don't use Wish I create a 250k bauble that can be converted to coins later.

End result, my base has very loyal and very well hidden guards. I have in the neighborhood of 8 billion GP in case anything ever comes up, and if you manage to kill me it only costs me my magic items. Unless you killed the snow clone.

There's a lovely breakdown over at https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/spells/wish/