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Xanyo
2022-06-06, 01:02 AM
Say you're trying to make a monster character work and you've got a bunch of RHD you want to get something out of that's gonna scale properly. What abilities can you go for that will consider the RHD for scaling? For example, taking an initiator class and getting to partially count non-initiating classes towards IL. Are there any other classes that scale like this?

Conversely, what are some monster abilities that can be scaled with class levels? Such as monsters with class features like sneak attack or spellcasting that can then be stacked with the actual class they came from. Or dare I ask about monster abilities that already scale properly, enough that you might even consider taking more RHD?

Finally, what sorts of classes and abilities come "pre-scaled", where you don't need your earlier levels to contribute to it in order for it to stay useful and relevant? The most prominent example is Ur Priest with its fast progression that can catch you up if you aren't too many levels behind, but what else is there that can stand alone at mid to high levels?

I'm in a monster character mood and as fun as it is, I don't want to just keep homebrewing ways to advance a monster's abilities in a properly scaling manner.

Saintheart
2022-06-06, 01:17 AM
- Any (Su), i.e. Supernatural ability, will scale with level because that's how its saves are calculated - dependent on HD.

- Any (Sp), i.e. spell-like ability, if it duplicates a given spell, should scale if it's got a prestige class that advances that type of spell. Say for example there's a monster with a (Sp) ability that enhances abjuration spells (Abjurant Champion). While the PrC won't advance any of the monster's arcane spellcasting without a level in a PC class, there's enough wiggle room to assert an Abjuration-based (Sp) should be enhanced by Abjurant Champion's abilities.

- BAB and saves do, obviously.

- Malconvoker should advance native summoning spell-like abilities.

Crake
2022-06-06, 02:08 AM
- Any (Su), i.e. Supernatural ability, will scale with level because that's how its saves are calculated - dependent on HD.

Worth noting that many class-based Su and Ex abilities specify that they scale specifically off class level with their DC, rather than total HD.


- Any (Sp), i.e. spell-like ability, if it duplicates a given spell, should scale if it's got a prestige class that advances that type of spell. Say for example there's a monster with a (Sp) ability that enhances abjuration spells (Abjurant Champion). While the PrC won't advance any of the monster's arcane spellcasting without a level in a PC class, there's enough wiggle room to assert an Abjuration-based (Sp) should be enhanced by Abjurant Champion's abilities.

That doesn't really have anything to do with scaling on RHD though. SLAs do scale with RHD in one way though: Unless otherwise noted, an SLA's CL is equal to your HD. Not super useful, as for class abilities, it often IS noted, or the SLAs themselves aren't actually particularly great, but I'm sure there's some exceptions where it's impactful.

Gruftzwerg
2022-06-06, 03:10 AM
some templates (e.g. fiendish (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fiendishCreature.htm)) have abilities that scale of HD (Resistance to cold and fire & DR in this case).

remetagross
2022-06-06, 07:49 AM
Half-something templates give you SLA's that are based off your number of HDs. Say, Half-Celestial gives you Resurrection 1/day at 19-20 HDs, which is neat.

A neat caveat: Psi-like abilities scale with HDs better than SLA's because not only does the manifester level for the PLA equals the HD of the caster (like the CL equals the HD of the caster for SLA's) but in addition to this, the PLA's are augmented for free to the maximum possible amount. Hence, Phrenic creature (the psionic version of "half-something" template) is nice because of that.

Telonius
2022-06-08, 10:28 AM
Minor but worth mentioning: the Improved Toughness feat gives 1hp per hit die. More hit dice, more bonus HP.

For undead, not exactly a bonus, but more HD makes you harder to turn.

PoeticallyPsyco
2022-06-08, 02:02 PM
The template Feral Creature is interesting, because you unlock new abilities based on your "monster Hit Dice", so arguably it only scales based on RHD.

I say arguably because "monster Hit Dice" isn't a game term, and could simply mean 'the total HD of the monster'. I've seen that ruled both ways.

Either way, it will definitely benefit from you having more RHD.

Telonius
2022-06-08, 02:44 PM
The template Feral Creature is interesting, because you unlock new abilities based on your "monster Hit Dice", so arguably it only scales based on RHD.

I say arguably because "monster Hit Dice" isn't a game term, and could simply mean 'the total HD of the monster'. I've seen that ruled both ways.

Either way, it will definitely benefit from you having more RHD.

Yeah, that was a 3.0 thing. Savage Species uses "monster Hit Dice" several times, usually contrasting it to hit dice granted by classes. It hadn't been a defined game term at that point. For example, this from the "Improved Turn Resistance" feat:


"When resolving a turn, rebuke, command, or bolster attempt, add 4 to your character level (monster Hit Dice plus class levels) to determine your Hit Dice for turn, rebuke, command, and bolster attempts. For example, a 4 HD wight with this feat is treated as an 8 HD undead for the purpose of turn, rebuke, command, and bolster attempts, even though it is a 4 HD creature for any other purpose."

Or this for the templates section on page 114:

"For all special abilities of the base creature that remain, recalculate saving throw DCs (special abilities from the template tell you how to calculate their DCs). The formula for most save DCs is 10 + 1/2 the creature’s Hit Dice + the relevant ability score modifier of the creature using the attack. Use only the creature’s monster Hit Dice for this calculation; do not include Hit Dice gained from class levels."

Back then, hit dice and advancement for various creatures was an absolute mess; one of 3.5's extremely sensible changes was to standardize them. In 3.0, it just wasn't as much of an assumption that a player would ever be playing something other than standard "PC" races. Translating it to 3.5, "monster Hit Dice" would read as "RHD."