SangoProduction
2022-06-07, 01:22 AM
Preamble: So, recently did a re-review of Sniper sphere. Someone recommended to add in the (snare) talents from sniper sphere. Which featured the Tricky Traps, which lets you do accomplish a Dirty Trick on a reflex save rather than actually messing about with the silly Combat Maneuvers. And above all? You get to do it all at range. As a rider effect to an attack. Possibly twice per attack, if you're using a full round action to apply it twice... Which we *will* be assuming here, because it makes such a big difference.
Post Review Analysis: Yeah. Very potent combination. Also one of the only times that I have put mobility as highly rated.
(1) Superb: You always want this if it's relevant to you. And it probably is.
(1.5) Really Good: Particularly useful bits of kit, but aren't quite must-haves. (Kept it decimal, because spreading out Good so far from Superb felt unrepresentative. But I needed a step between)
(2) Good: These make useful additions to the right builds. Among your first picks.
(3) Mediocre: Doesn't hurt to have. Wouldn't go out of your way for it.
(4) No: It technically has a use, but the cost to take simply doesn't outweigh the benefit.
(5) Never: There’s no non-trivial reason to pick it up, from its mechanics.
(6+) Harmful: Taking/using this is actively detrimental to your character.
<Angle brackets> around a rating indicates situational usefulness, and how good it is in that favorable situation.
[Square brackets] indicate a reliance on the group (players or DM) or campaign you’re playing in, and how well it does in those select groups.
Special Ratings:
(C) Cheese: A talent so broken that it will be instantly banned if you use it as you could.
(?) Unrated: I choose not to rate it. Often because it is just so far out of my wheelhouse, or it’s far too ambiguous.
(F) Flavor: This indicates that the main draw to the talent is going to be its inherent fluff or flavor, rather than raw power or utility.
(D) D***bag: Used for when your character wants to be a D***bag.
Note: Some objectively good talents will be rated as bad, due to the fact that they simply are not needed when using them as a Sniper. (Even though they can be used normally, as a backup if nothing else.)
Swift Hands (5): Literally has no use for us. (Also the primary impetus for the above note.)
Marked Target (5): Battered doesn't help us. Nor does -1 to perception. It being melee also doesn't help.
Cut And Run (1++): Taking this talent is almost mandatory. Simply taking this opens up the reasonable expectation of getting to full round snipe most of your turns. Even if you only average 1.35 failed saves a turn with that, you've now got mobility that you didn't have. The jump from (nothing) to (something) is much greater than (something) to (something slightly more). Oh, not to mention that stealth is a non-action when you move.
Counter Theft (2): Generally, if a creature is in your natural reach, you've bunged up. But you've also got to look at it in context of Cut and Run providing you free movement thereafter. (Note, you may want actual CMB improvements if you take this, raising the build cost.)
Playing Dirty (3): You actually want the real Greater Dirty Trick, which is superior in every way (other than prerequisites). But this will do fine until you've got BAB 6.
Distracting Trickery (3): Trick them, and now they can't AoO anyone. This even includes if they walk up to you to smack you around. You don't even have to 5 ft step now. You just fire away, and Cut and Run.
Lingering Slight (4): Works precisely once per combat per enemy. Unless you get unlucky, and they just keep making their saves so that you made neither of your tricky traps land. Maybe they were also a rogue. In which case you could just hit them with normal (snipe) talents without saves.
Filthy Distraction (5): -5 to perception checks on trick. So? Well, Cut and Run gives movement, which allows stealth, without the sniping penalty. That's 25% of the d20 that you negate. That's Stealthy and Skill Focus combined (against one guy). Not to mention them likely being straight up blinded. Really, this is only relevant if you are a Deadly Assassin (archetype) rogue. Or you are dead set on Fencing sphere. But you can already blind them on a trick. Repeat. You can already blind them. They automatically fail sight-based perception checks. And if they are bats, you can deafen them!
Melee Confusion (5): You gain no benefit out of this. Your allies *might,* depending on how you read the effect. If you read it in the favorable way, then it might be a light bit of rider effect to your trick. But that reading's unlikely.
Twist The Knife (6): Most ranged weapons have a 5% chance to crit. Maybe upwards of 20% with crazy investment. And I think I might be stacking things that don't stack, by memory. And then you have to confirm the crit. And after all that, you get the expend martial focus for the opportunity to attempt dirty trick, as a combat maneuver. So, that's 3 points of failure. 4 if you literally ever use martial focus for anything else.
Opportune Draw (?): Free action sheath weapons on dirty trick?? Probably for Iaijustsu style talents from duelist. I'd guess.
Steal Confidence (?): Oh. Once / round same-action feint on drawing a sheathed weapon. Not incredibly relevant, as your tricks are not contingent on the attack hitting. But it's more potential damage.
Subtle Poisoner (?): And a 1/round same-action apply poison. Poison has to be in-hand though. Can be done by adding tentacles or shadow stash or some such. Generally not that available to martial types, but even excluding allies, picking up a level of incanter doesn't tend to be difficult.
Vagabond Nick (1.5): Just straight up free damage. Granted, only up to (lvl + 2* practitioner modifier) per round. So not a lot. (Though it could be a lot, relatively, at early levels). But it's literally just a rider effect to these rider effect dirty tricks.
Crouching Tiger (2): They miss you in melee. You get to steal/dirty trick, and then run half your move speed with Cut and Run, setting you up for your full-round attack next turn. (Note, you may want actual CMB improvements if you take this, raising the build cost.)
Clever Fox’s Heist (6): AoO steal/dirty tricks (after which, you get to move half your move speed, plus Cut and Run's half). Not relevant, unless you're also wielding a reach weapon while you're sniping.... I think there's actually a way to do that, even without needing extra arms, and it would include Opportune Draw. And so you potentially could get Crouching Tiger's effect, but contingent on them moving in rather than missing you. Anyway! I'll just say it's not relevant.
Bob And Weave (2): Swift action to turn an adjacent ally into stealthable cover. Allows you to run in between allies and hide, even in the dull, featureless battle plane that so many DMs use.
Focusing Thievery (3): Only works in melee.
Combat Hustle (5): ****ing incredible bonuses, for a mostly melee team. But you don't use CM checks.
Misdirected Attack (6): Worse Mobility.
Improved Grifting (6): Worse than the associated feats until much later levels. Oh, and you don't use CM checks.
Master Thief (?): Steal only.
No Honor Among Thieves (?): Countering theft only.
Switcheroo (?): Steal only.
Cleaned Out / Mug (?): Steal only.
Ranged Trickery (?): Allows you to trick at range. But you already are.
Double Dip (1+): You want the real Kitsune Tricks feat, if you can get it. But Kitsune Tricks will probably be banned. It's way too good with SoM. Let alone combining it with Snipe to get 2 per round.
Savage Tricks (1): Starting at level 5, you can expend MF to instead apply an amplified debuff. Which is much earlier than Dirty Trick Master coming online at level 11, and doesn't rely a preexisting condition already being inflicted. But it does take a (trick) slot, and MF, while the real feat is just passive. Still, even given an unrestricted choice between the two, it might be difficult to decide. Only 1 amplified effect per round (barring forbidden consumption technique, which would be silly to use). But the feat takes 2 successive, successful dirty tricks, of which you get at most 2 per round, typically. But you lose Double Dip. And Double Dip with Dirty Trick Master is absurd. Kitsune Tricks as well. But yeah.
Blustering Shenanigans (1.5): Assuming you have good intimidate, Shaken's a golden debuff. As a rider effect.
Fancy Footwork (4): Reposition is not particularly useful. But you can hypothetically put an enemy behind an ally so they can't charge you.
Broke and Broken (?): Lets you steal each time you dirty trick, as free actions. You'd almost have to take Master Thief. Steal is just straight up bad otherwise. Except against material component casters.
Flustering Antics [?]: Requires SoM enemies who specifically would really like martial focus. The former condition isn't guaranteed even in games with SoM. The latter is just rare in my experience.
Post Review Analysis: Yeah. Very potent combination. Also one of the only times that I have put mobility as highly rated.
(1) Superb: You always want this if it's relevant to you. And it probably is.
(1.5) Really Good: Particularly useful bits of kit, but aren't quite must-haves. (Kept it decimal, because spreading out Good so far from Superb felt unrepresentative. But I needed a step between)
(2) Good: These make useful additions to the right builds. Among your first picks.
(3) Mediocre: Doesn't hurt to have. Wouldn't go out of your way for it.
(4) No: It technically has a use, but the cost to take simply doesn't outweigh the benefit.
(5) Never: There’s no non-trivial reason to pick it up, from its mechanics.
(6+) Harmful: Taking/using this is actively detrimental to your character.
<Angle brackets> around a rating indicates situational usefulness, and how good it is in that favorable situation.
[Square brackets] indicate a reliance on the group (players or DM) or campaign you’re playing in, and how well it does in those select groups.
Special Ratings:
(C) Cheese: A talent so broken that it will be instantly banned if you use it as you could.
(?) Unrated: I choose not to rate it. Often because it is just so far out of my wheelhouse, or it’s far too ambiguous.
(F) Flavor: This indicates that the main draw to the talent is going to be its inherent fluff or flavor, rather than raw power or utility.
(D) D***bag: Used for when your character wants to be a D***bag.
Note: Some objectively good talents will be rated as bad, due to the fact that they simply are not needed when using them as a Sniper. (Even though they can be used normally, as a backup if nothing else.)
Swift Hands (5): Literally has no use for us. (Also the primary impetus for the above note.)
Marked Target (5): Battered doesn't help us. Nor does -1 to perception. It being melee also doesn't help.
Cut And Run (1++): Taking this talent is almost mandatory. Simply taking this opens up the reasonable expectation of getting to full round snipe most of your turns. Even if you only average 1.35 failed saves a turn with that, you've now got mobility that you didn't have. The jump from (nothing) to (something) is much greater than (something) to (something slightly more). Oh, not to mention that stealth is a non-action when you move.
Counter Theft (2): Generally, if a creature is in your natural reach, you've bunged up. But you've also got to look at it in context of Cut and Run providing you free movement thereafter. (Note, you may want actual CMB improvements if you take this, raising the build cost.)
Playing Dirty (3): You actually want the real Greater Dirty Trick, which is superior in every way (other than prerequisites). But this will do fine until you've got BAB 6.
Distracting Trickery (3): Trick them, and now they can't AoO anyone. This even includes if they walk up to you to smack you around. You don't even have to 5 ft step now. You just fire away, and Cut and Run.
Lingering Slight (4): Works precisely once per combat per enemy. Unless you get unlucky, and they just keep making their saves so that you made neither of your tricky traps land. Maybe they were also a rogue. In which case you could just hit them with normal (snipe) talents without saves.
Filthy Distraction (5): -5 to perception checks on trick. So? Well, Cut and Run gives movement, which allows stealth, without the sniping penalty. That's 25% of the d20 that you negate. That's Stealthy and Skill Focus combined (against one guy). Not to mention them likely being straight up blinded. Really, this is only relevant if you are a Deadly Assassin (archetype) rogue. Or you are dead set on Fencing sphere. But you can already blind them on a trick. Repeat. You can already blind them. They automatically fail sight-based perception checks. And if they are bats, you can deafen them!
Melee Confusion (5): You gain no benefit out of this. Your allies *might,* depending on how you read the effect. If you read it in the favorable way, then it might be a light bit of rider effect to your trick. But that reading's unlikely.
Twist The Knife (6): Most ranged weapons have a 5% chance to crit. Maybe upwards of 20% with crazy investment. And I think I might be stacking things that don't stack, by memory. And then you have to confirm the crit. And after all that, you get the expend martial focus for the opportunity to attempt dirty trick, as a combat maneuver. So, that's 3 points of failure. 4 if you literally ever use martial focus for anything else.
Opportune Draw (?): Free action sheath weapons on dirty trick?? Probably for Iaijustsu style talents from duelist. I'd guess.
Steal Confidence (?): Oh. Once / round same-action feint on drawing a sheathed weapon. Not incredibly relevant, as your tricks are not contingent on the attack hitting. But it's more potential damage.
Subtle Poisoner (?): And a 1/round same-action apply poison. Poison has to be in-hand though. Can be done by adding tentacles or shadow stash or some such. Generally not that available to martial types, but even excluding allies, picking up a level of incanter doesn't tend to be difficult.
Vagabond Nick (1.5): Just straight up free damage. Granted, only up to (lvl + 2* practitioner modifier) per round. So not a lot. (Though it could be a lot, relatively, at early levels). But it's literally just a rider effect to these rider effect dirty tricks.
Crouching Tiger (2): They miss you in melee. You get to steal/dirty trick, and then run half your move speed with Cut and Run, setting you up for your full-round attack next turn. (Note, you may want actual CMB improvements if you take this, raising the build cost.)
Clever Fox’s Heist (6): AoO steal/dirty tricks (after which, you get to move half your move speed, plus Cut and Run's half). Not relevant, unless you're also wielding a reach weapon while you're sniping.... I think there's actually a way to do that, even without needing extra arms, and it would include Opportune Draw. And so you potentially could get Crouching Tiger's effect, but contingent on them moving in rather than missing you. Anyway! I'll just say it's not relevant.
Bob And Weave (2): Swift action to turn an adjacent ally into stealthable cover. Allows you to run in between allies and hide, even in the dull, featureless battle plane that so many DMs use.
Focusing Thievery (3): Only works in melee.
Combat Hustle (5): ****ing incredible bonuses, for a mostly melee team. But you don't use CM checks.
Misdirected Attack (6): Worse Mobility.
Improved Grifting (6): Worse than the associated feats until much later levels. Oh, and you don't use CM checks.
Master Thief (?): Steal only.
No Honor Among Thieves (?): Countering theft only.
Switcheroo (?): Steal only.
Cleaned Out / Mug (?): Steal only.
Ranged Trickery (?): Allows you to trick at range. But you already are.
Double Dip (1+): You want the real Kitsune Tricks feat, if you can get it. But Kitsune Tricks will probably be banned. It's way too good with SoM. Let alone combining it with Snipe to get 2 per round.
Savage Tricks (1): Starting at level 5, you can expend MF to instead apply an amplified debuff. Which is much earlier than Dirty Trick Master coming online at level 11, and doesn't rely a preexisting condition already being inflicted. But it does take a (trick) slot, and MF, while the real feat is just passive. Still, even given an unrestricted choice between the two, it might be difficult to decide. Only 1 amplified effect per round (barring forbidden consumption technique, which would be silly to use). But the feat takes 2 successive, successful dirty tricks, of which you get at most 2 per round, typically. But you lose Double Dip. And Double Dip with Dirty Trick Master is absurd. Kitsune Tricks as well. But yeah.
Blustering Shenanigans (1.5): Assuming you have good intimidate, Shaken's a golden debuff. As a rider effect.
Fancy Footwork (4): Reposition is not particularly useful. But you can hypothetically put an enemy behind an ally so they can't charge you.
Broke and Broken (?): Lets you steal each time you dirty trick, as free actions. You'd almost have to take Master Thief. Steal is just straight up bad otherwise. Except against material component casters.
Flustering Antics [?]: Requires SoM enemies who specifically would really like martial focus. The former condition isn't guaranteed even in games with SoM. The latter is just rare in my experience.