Drow Tactics as a PC

[RSP]

So my new PC is a Drow Clockwork Soul Sorc who fights in melee mostly. I’m using the CS mechanics, but in-game, his abilities are due to magical and genetic engineering by the Drow (which, if the internet is to be believed, is something the Drow - or at least some civilizations of Drow - in the FR do).

So I’m trying to figure out good ways to represent typical Drow tactics. 5e doesn’t do a good job representing the tactic of using Darkness against opponents (which I imagine is still a favored tactic of the Underdark Drow, but going off my memory of the old Salvatore books), as others not seeing you is completely balanced against you not seeing them.

So far, I’ve used the extra CS slots to take Detect Magic, Levitate and Dispel Magic, reordering his “Drow high magic” without actually having to take the feat.

Two thoughts on making the Darkness tactic actually worthwhile are either taking Alert or getting the Blindfighting FS. The FS is more effective, I think, when using Darkness, but Alert is still applicable towards that (essentially attacks against the PC would be at Disadvantage) while generally being much more effective overall.

This isn’t an optimization question, it’s an RP one: I don’t plan on using the Darkness strategy that much (both due to other PCs and because it competes with SB), but the PC should be good at it as that’s a tactic he was trained to use. (Side note: won’t be doing Devils Sight as it’s not native to the Drow - that is, it’s my understanding in-game world Drow are good at using Darkness without having the ability to see through it, and that’s better represented by either Alert or Blindfighting, in my opinion).

So question is:

A) what are some regular strategies used by Drow in combat that I should be representing in the build?

B) what are some thoughts on how to reflect those strategies in a PC?

Again, think RP reasons why he’d have these abilities, rather than optimization.

Thanks in advance for the help!

[solidork]

Edited to prevent pointless arguments! Nothing to see here.

[RogueJK]

Darkness is still useful even without blindsight if you are inside the darkness and your enemies are outside of it and illuminated - they can't see you but you can see them.

That would be true of normal mundane darkness, but if you are inside the sphere of (capital D) Darkness from the Drow racial spell, you yourself are Blinded.

You're within the area, and everything around you is heavily obscured and blocks your vision entirely, so therefore you are Blinded. Light illuminating an enemy outside of the area of magical Darkness doesn't affect that obscurement of the area immediately adjacent to you intervening between you and the illuminated enemies. (It'd be like staring at a large black wall... it doesn't matter if an illuminated enemy is on the other side of it.)

[RSP]

Darkness is still useful even without blindsight if you are inside the darkness and your enemies are outside of it and illuminated - they can't see you but you can see them.


That would be true of normal mundane darkness, but if you are inside the sphere of (capital D) Darkness from the Drow racial spell, you yourself are Blinded.


To clarify (and to not derail this thread into the Darkness debate), my DM uses the “ball of blackness” interpretation of Darkness that prevents sight in it, or going through it; so there’s no seeing outside of it if you’re inside it.

[solidork]

Duly noted! The other big thing about Drow, and what looms large in my mind after facing them as a PC in 5e, is the poison they use.

The actual knock out poison that Drow stat blocks get seems a little strong for a PC to have regular access to, so I'm not sure how you'd represent it mechanically.

[RSP]

Duly noted! The other big thing about Drow, and what looms large in my mind after facing them as a PC in 5e, is the poison they use.

The actual knock out poison that Drow stat blocks get seems a little strong for a PC to have regular access to, so I'm not sure how you'd represent it mechanically.

Yeah, it is strong. Particularly at level 5.

On the plus side, I’m okay overlooking it as it’s my understanding that the warriors use it, but don’t necessarily know how to make it. So, yeah, he may have experience using it (and wouldn’t mind getting his hands on some perhaps), but build-wise, I’d imagine it makes sense that he doesn’t know how to make it, and therefore doesn’t factor it in to his currently regularly used tactics.

Also, I’d imagine the only way to reflect that would be the Poisoner Feat, which doesn’t actually do what Drow poison does.

Thanks for bringing it up though: I’ll make note of it for his RP.


Edited to prevent pointless arguments! Nothing to see here.

Just wanted to add: I hope the “nothing to see here” in regards to Darkness is an intended pun, and, if so, is very well played.

[solidork]

Drow often fight beside giant spiders, so they've got experience taking advantage of foes restrained by webs or riding mounts that can cling to vertical surfaces/ceilings. They probably also take advantage of their mount's web sense to potentially detect intruders. Training to knock people into webs so they get stuck also makes sense, though none of the spider stat blocks have any actual abilities that create areas of webs on the fly.

[Ravenstower]

Yeah, it is strong. Particularly at level 5.

On the plus side, I’m okay overlooking it as it’s my understanding that the warriors use it, but don’t necessarily know how to make it. So, yeah, he may have experience using it (and wouldn’t mind getting his hands on some perhaps), but build-wise, I’d imagine it makes sense that he doesn’t know how to make it, and therefore doesn’t factor it in to his currently regularly used tactics.

Also, I’d imagine the only way to reflect that would be the Poisoner Feat, which doesn’t actually do what Drow poison does.

Thanks for bringing it up though: I’ll make note of it for his RP.



Just wanted to add: I hope the “nothing to see here” in regards to Darkness is an intended pun, and, if so, is very well played.

If you don't want to invest in the Poisoner feat, a smaller investment would be in tool proficiency (perhaps through the character's background?) in Poisoner's Kit. Depending on how your DM plays them, it gives a significant number of poison-related uses besides crafting poison based on experience with poisons.

As far as tactics go, I am reminded of the lore of a magic item in one of the games (I don't recall which offhand) where a duel was fought between drow with a limit on how many magic items could be used. The successful drow chose a ring that let the wearer fire some kind of bolt of magical energy -- and then gave it to someone else to use from the sidelines to ambush his opponent, because the rules never said that the combatant had to be the one using the chosen item. That kind of incisive and lateral thinking is key to the viciously political and politically vicious world of the drow -- or at least the most common depictions of them.

[ChaosStar]

This might be dependent on the DM, but I seem to recall that in a Dungeon of the Mad Mage game I watched you might be able to use an Herbalism Kit and the Medicine skill to make both poison and antidotes.

[Schwann145]

Typical Drow tactics are to drop a ball of magical Darkness on their foes and then slaughter them inside it using Infravision to see.
Unfortunately for the Drow, Infravision hasn't existed since 3.0 dropped, so that tactic doesn't work anymore. :P (Gotta love it when game mechanics changes totally undo established lore, and is entirely unapologetic about it, amrite?)

The other big tactic, as mentioned already, is the Drow sleep poison, which, as also already mentioned, is far more potent than the pitiful poison options allowed to PCs.


Bottom line? I think picking up Devil's Sight would be totally fair both mechanically and thematically. Drow are *supposed* to be able to see through their own globes of Darkness. The fact that they can't is a D&D-ism, not a Drow-ism.
As for the poison, get with your DM and good luck. 5e is very big on not having strong/lethal options, and when they do exist, not giving them to the players. Poisons, in general, are rather pathetic and the ones that aren't are not gonna be something you'll find available to use.

All that aside, generally speaking, Drow are ambush fighters. They use whatever trick in the book will get the job done and don't concern themselves with how dirty/unfair it might be. They'll have experience fighting alongside arcane users while being commanded by divine users, so they'll know how to work alongside battlefield control and area damage but won't be too experienced with personal buffs or restorative magic (Drow priestesses aren't likely to "help" so much).

[Droodicus]

I'm listening to the Salvatore books again at the moment. If we're taking them as Canon drow can't see through their own darkness.
Drow houses use their darkness to block out visuals when assassinating other houses.
Drizzt and montello fight in a darkness globe to take away drizzt sight advantage.
He also uses it a few times to gain an advantage, not because he can see but because he and zaknafein trained to fight blind.

[sambojin]

Remember, stuff like caltrops/ ball bearings and even (about-to-be) ignited flasks of oil won't be seen in Darkness. Nor will pits you can make with Mold Earth. So you can set up trap areas (you'll know where they are, even if you can't see them). Might be a raging inferno in there, might not be. Might be about-to-be. Could just be a 30' deep pit. With several bottles of alchemist's fire and flasks of oil in the bottom of it. Or a 5' pit + 5' wall, or a mini-maze. Or you. Or a Minor Illusion of you. Or an illusion of the sound of a very scary creature (Darkness can be pretty good at area denial). Or an illusory sound of you, so they try and attack there, while you're somewhere else in the darkness. There's lots of things to hide in a Darkness spell, or to use it as a warning signal.

Easier with a familiar, so they can spread some of this stuff around without you wasting your action to do so, but given any preparation time, you can have quite a bit of fun with the spell even without one.

Also, stuff like hooded lanterns or a clay jar that you open/close, or just a stone that you pocket/unpocket when you want to turn darkness on/off, can be handy too. Or a crossbow bolt with pebble attached near the fletchings to fire off a darkness ball at someone, that you safely quiver the rest of the time (maybe alongside a Light bolt as well). Pre-cast spells are good spells, and 10mins is a fairly long time.

Even more-so with a familiar or summon to move the objects above to where you need them. Worthwhile taking MI: Wizard, just for the familiar, and to make sure you have some fun cantrips. Could be a summoned "Shadow" Draconic spirit (despite concentration concerns). Could also just be a bat familiar carrying a Darkness pebble. It's hard to say.

You could also have a familiar in the form of a poisonous snake sometimes, to get at least some sort of venom for poisons, and recast it as a bat later on. It's not *Serpent Venom*/ "Giant Poisonous Snake" venom, but it's a huge quantity of poisonous snake venom available from a willing giver there-of, and that's a DC10 Con at 2d4 damage (half on save), so that works fine too. Nice on *every dagger or bolt you can hold*. It might just be easier to ask your DM "Hey, can I have +d4 poison on all my weapons, all the time? Because I'm a Drow, have a poisoner's kit, and owning a mind-controlled poisonous snake is a thing I do sometimes. I have LOTS of vials of venom!". It'll save rolling for saves, but it's on all-the-time. Makes it easy.

You can also swap out a spell from Clockwork at some point for Tiny Servant, they have 60' of Blindsight and don't require concentration, so work with darkness well. They're pretty bad in every other way though. You do have Summon Construct however, so maybe a heavily poisonous construct is an option? No reason it can't have blade/ spiky arms, with poison channels running all over/ through them, for slashing/ piercing damage instead. A summoned beast spirit can be a monkey with hands, or a dog, or a flying mini-pony/ eagle/ whatever if you want it to be.... A four armed golem, with hands *and* spiky bits isn't that big of a deal.

If you have a Druid in the party, get them to wildshape into all kinds of poisonous things, and milk them for their venom. It's hard to not have access to Giant Spider/Snake/ Dilophosaurus/ whatever venom then. Prepare poisons, and liberally coat all weapons/ bolts/ enemies in them. Druids also have a fair bit of Blindsight, so they're good for you to buddy up with for your Darkness shenanigans.

[TrialsofHualnem]

I think putting some time to actually roleplay the weaknesses of the Drow would make it great as well. Drow obviously use darkness and their advantage within primarily but - make sure to RP that weakness when that's not quite an option or if you're forced into it. Sounds like a fun concept!

[Rashagar]

Bit late to the party, and this might not be what you're looking for, but still.

Outside of darkness and poison, the defining traits I think of when thinking of drow are cruelty, political intrigue, and using any method to gain an advantage, which are a bit harder to represent mechanically, but might help frame uses for other potential spell choices (alter self? detect thoughts? suggestion? mind spike?)

If he's trained in poison use, you can still lean into this conceptually even if he doesn't have access to the specific drow poison of their stat block.

Blindness spell -> flavoured as a blinding powder
Hold Person -> a paralysing toxin
Tasha's Mind Whip -> a weaker version of drow poison that he's concocted for himself which causes sluggishness rather than full sleep.
Stinking Cloud -> a choking gas
Etc.

Eventually you'd potentially get access to Eye Bite for a full sleep effect, if it helps.