Rogue/Artificer good multiclass?

[poopyloop]

Hey what's up?

I'm trying to put together a character for an upcoming campaign. I have the basic ideas figured out as far as who they are and the major parts of the background and I was hoping I could come to the community to get some advice on the actual gameplay mechanics of what I'm trying to do.

We are playing in a homebrew world where magic had a hand to play in destroying ancient societies and thus is seen as taboo in a lot of areas. And from what I understand, magic has the potential to be unstable as well. There are also certain locations that have ancient magic floating around and societies that may have secrets to how magic works and the place it had in the past. This part of the campaign setting intrigued me, so I was looking for a character that could use magic to some degree, but wasn't entirely reliant on it, possibly inexperienced and willing to learn more and grow into it. I also wanted to have them be well versed in the knowledge skills and be interested in exploring rough terrain and unusual places. I have the background set to be an archeologist - exploring the ancient ruins and caves where lost magic relics can be found and having knowledge about them that commoners wouldn't have available.

However the class had me a little stumped. But after some self deliberation, I thought Rogue seemed like a very fitting class for someone who is spelunking and exploring, as well as a skill expert. Artificer also struck me as someone who had access to some spells, while not being entirely reliant on them, but it mostly took to me because I could easily flavor the artifacts the character was recovering as the infusions and spells. I love the idea in concept, but I'm having trouble convincing myself this will be an effective character in combat. The plan was Rogue 1->Armor Artificer 5-> Arcane Trickster Rogue X. Along with the homebrew setting there are also homebrew races that have very customizable racial abilities. So any traditional races are basically out, as far as I know.


It seems to work well out of combat to me, but I fear it will be ineffective, or at least boring in combat. What do you guys think? Is it going to be a one trick combat pony? Is there some other combination of classes that would fit my goals better? While the flavor and character aspects are very important to me, and I'm willing to sacrifice some combat potential of the character for them, I still want to have a character that is fun and interesting in combat, and at least somewhat effective. Optimization is not necessary but I would like to optimize within my concept

Quick "criteria" list
-effective in knowledge skills (specifically history and arcana)
-can be effective with or without magic (or at least effective for a small amount of time without magic)
-easy/believable archeologist tie-in/flavor
-has fun or strategic options in combat

Thanks!

[StonerEvanB]

I have a few thoughts:
This is a class combo that just won't be combat-optimized. That being said, the Infiltrator armor mode, with the built-in tazer, will absolutely trigger your sneak attack, with the benefit of stealth and movement speed, allowing you to explore just a little faster and quieter; always helpful. You shouldn't be looking to be on the front line, that's Somebody Else's Job. Hang back, take your 1 attack a round for 1d6+Int+Sneak Attack+whatever other riders, and call it a day. Your role is outside of combat, and That's OK.

Also,
Bard would fit the flavor of a spelunker/historian/archeologist as well if not better than rogue.
"Y'know, it's funny you ask me where I got this little doodad. I had heard this story about this cave..."

[RogueJK]

Splitting it 10/10 or even 5/15 is going to be tough to optimize, and take a while to come online.

Therefore, I'd do either:

Artificer 1 -> Rogue 1 or 2 -> Armorer Artificer X, as an Artificer with some additional skills/Expertise and a little extra Sneak Attack damage to some of their Lightning Launcher attacks.

or

Artificer 1 -> Rogue 1 or 2 -> Armorer Artificer 3 -> Arcane Trickster Rogue X, as an Arcane Trickster Rogue with a few extra cantrips/1st level spells, better AC, and an INT-based ranged weapon.


Either way, you're going to want to start at Level 1 with Artificer to get CON save proficiency, and use the Infiltrator Armor as it's the only one of the two Armorer weapons that can apply Sneak Attacks.


I think the first option (Armorer with a Rogue dip) is likely going to be the better of the two.


Stats would be something like:
STR 8
DEX 15+1
CON 14
INT 15+2
WIS 10
CHA 8
Wear a breastplate and use a light crossbow until you hit Armorer 3, and then ditch the crossbow in favor of a shield and the Lightning Launcher, with a free hand for casting.
Put your first two ASIs into bumping INT to 20, first with a half-feat like Fey Touched/Shadow Touched/Skill Expert/etc. and then +2 INT.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

You're set up fine. You said Rogue 1/Artificer 5, then Rogue onward with Armorer and Arcane Trickster, if you're only going 5 in Artificer I'd recommend just stopping at 3 or 4 for the ASI.. What level are you starting at? Assuming 1 let's just run through the issues.

Stats. You have a choice here, Optimize Dex and then Int, or Optimize Int and put Dex at 14. I'd recommend the second. Artificer is going to give you serious armor options and expertise can shore Sleight of Hand and Acrobatics if you want both. Artificer handles Stealth. Or put Expertise in Stealth if you want.

Level 1 is a non issue, you're a rogue, If you went 14 Dex you are at a -1 compared to what balance expects you to be at, so be a bit more careful, your AC is at 13, not great, stay at range.

Level 2 (Rog1/Art1) You don't have your speed and dodging, but you do get Medium armor and shields, so with access to gear your AC goes from 13 to 18. Magical Trinkets are good for all kinds of things, it's up to your creativity, and you have spellcasting to both heal and buff.

Level 3 (Rog1/Art2): Magic Gear comes on line. You're still using your Dex to attack, so at least temporarily you probably want a +1 weapon with one of them. You are now officially 1 Sneak Attack die down.

Level 4 (Rog1/Art3): Armorer comes on line. You are now SAD to Intelligence. Infiltrator means you're back on line damage wise with a pure rogue (Pure Rogue 4 is weapon+2d6 SA, This build is 1d6+1d6 SA+1d6 Lightning Launcher). Your speed increases and you have a choice to aim at here. Aim for a Breastplate, keep that 18 AC but now you have perpetual advantage on Stealth. Or Aim for Full plate, still have normal stealth and your AC moves up to 20.

From here I recommend back to Rogue, which means you'll end up being 1 level behind on your effective SA damage, you're a Rogue with super stealth, an undisarmable weapon, better AC and access to magic items. You could take 1 more level of Artificer for an ASI, but it won't help your Caster level or anything.

[poopyloop]

I have a few thoughts:
This is a class combo that just won't be combat-optimized.
Also,
Bard would fit the flavor of a spelunker/historian/archeologist as well if not better than rogue.
"Y'know, it's funny you ask me where I got this little doodad. I had heard this story about this cave..."

Yep that was pretty much the plan if I do go through with this build. Although the real issue I'm having is, is that all I'm going to do every combat turn? Because simply attacking once every time a combat comes up is incredibly uninteresting to me. I want to be able to switch it up at least once in a while. Being less than optimal in combat is fine, but being less than optimal and boring is not.

I did consider Spirits Bard, I think the flavor of the subclass lends itself perfectly to using ancient artifacts and knowledge of old forgotten lore by literally talking to the spirits of the dead for the info. But I was apprehensive about it because they do rely almost entirely on magic most of the time. As well as needing CHA as a casting stat where I want to focus more on INT for the specific skills. Also I've played bards a handful of times, so was looking to mix it up.


Splitting it 10/10 or even 5/15 is going to be tough to optimize, and take a while to come online.

Therefore, I'd do either:

Artificer 1 -> Rogue 1 or 2 -> Armorer Artificer X, as an Artificer with some additional skills/Expertise and a little extra Sneak Attack damage to some of their Lightning Launcher attacks......

So I was planning on starting Rogue for the extra skill and the immediate sneak attack for the damage boost right away, as well as the expertise to play into my out-of-combat utility right off the bat as well. Obviously CON saves are preferred over DEX for a concentration caster, but how necessary is it for this build do you think? My casting is not going to be as powerful as even a half caster, and I will admit, I am not very familiar with the Artificer spell list, so not even sure what I would be concentrating on on a normal turn. I think that the rogue dip is also very viable, just makes me a more maneuverable and harder hitting Artificer I suppose. The reason I wanted to go Artificer 5 was for the extra attack, for the extra chance to proc the sneak attack.



You're set up fine. You said Rogue 1/Artificer 5, then Rogue onward with Armorer and Arcane Trickster, if you're only going 5 in Artificer I'd recommend just stopping at 3 or 4 for the ASI.. What level are you starting at? Assuming 1 let's just run through the issues....

Yep was definitely going to go with INT first followed by DEX. Was going with expertise in history and arcana for flavor reasons. You make some good points though, I may be hurting for the first few levels. This makes me think starting Artificer may not be a bad option. I was planning to go into artificer til 5 however, for the extra attack to attempt to land the sneak attack if the first attack misses.

Thanks for the replies so far, definitely appreciate the ideas