Sorlock optimization: Warlock 2 vs. Warlock 1 + Eldritch Adept feat.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

By a strict reading, the eldritch adept feat requires at least 1 warlock level to take agonizing blast, although the invocation itself doesn't require a specific warlock level.

I'm wondering if the trade-off of getting into sorcerer a level early is worth a feat, assuming I understand the purpose of a sorlock as primarily to get EB+AB on a sorcerer. You are essentially trading 1 feat, 1 short rest spell slot, and 1 other invocation for an extra level of sorcerer, which does seem good. What are your thoughts?

[Eldariel]

Well, I generally don't think Eldritch Blast is what you really want if you go Sorlock anyways; it's not good enough to lose levels of casting for. The biggest contributions are the various invocations and the spell slots to battery charge your sorc points on a short rest. 1 level of Warlock is 1 slot, 2 levels is 2 slots, and 3 levels is 2 level 2 slots (plus Pact). I generally prefer 2 levels just to get to the goodies faster but if I'm going Sorlock, I'm consigning myself to retarded spell progression anyways; if I were fine with just Eldritch Blast I'd probably go 1 but there's too much else on the Warlock list of abilities IMHO to only take 1.

[tiornys]

IMO, the optimal way to Sorlock is with Hexblade 2. You get medium armor + shields proficiency, you double the efficiency of "tealocking" (converting short rest spell slots to sorc points/sorc spell slots) vs. just Hexblade 1, and you get to add Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast to make Eldritch Blast an at-will control option with solid damage output. It's the combination of massively improved AC, synergy between pact slots and sorcery points, and at-will DPR + control that justifies the delay in Sorcerer spell progression.

Hexblade 1 is the next best option since the defense boost is arguably the strongest benefit and the extra spells known are nice. But if you're not planning to go Hex 2 then I do NOT think it's worth taking a feat for Agonizing Blast (or for Repelling Blast) alone--you can put that ASI to better use. Hexblade 3 doesn't give you enough extra to justify the further delay on the Sorcerer spell progression, and none of the other Warlock subclasses give you enough to be worth taking over Hexblade.

Caveat that this is speaking from a pure optimization perspective; there are plenty of reasons to go a little suboptimal if you think it would be fun and/or would fit the character better, and in most campaigns you'll still be more than powerful enough.

[Miele]

My favourite way is Warlock 2 then Sorc 5, then Warlock 3, rest all sorcerer.
Alternatively Sorc 5 (Divine Soul) to make a beeline for Fireball and or other 3rd level spells, then Warlock 2, then to your taste.
Hexblade 2 gives you much more than a simple talent, I like getting a 3rd level as well for Tome or Chain.

Quickening EB is good, but erring on the side of control with a 2nd invocation, say Repelling, is never a bad move. Also it makes you a bit less a one trick pony.

[animorte]

Points already made that I will throw out again:
- 2 Warlock levels for extra invocation and save the ASI.
- Repelling Blast is awesome.
- Divine Soul Sorcerer is fantastic, though that may not be what you’re going for.

Other notes I would like to make:
- While Agonizing Blast is always reliable, there are plenty of invocations that provide solid utility worth looking into.

While Hexblade is good and very front-loaded, I would certainly recommend something else:
- Genie provides extra damage each turn. The vessel is phenomenal and it scales with proficiency. Genie is best.
- Undead gives additional control through Form of Dread, which activates similar to Hexblade’s Curse (except it works on whatever you hit and not just limited to one enemy).

Alternatively you could swap it around and go with Sorcerer 3/Warlock X just for mega-magic.

[Keravath]

I've usually gone with 2 levels of warlock when going for this multiclass. A third level taken later is also tempting. One big attraction is the short rest spell slots which can be recycled into sorcery points. Alternatively, they provide additional spell slots for shield and other useful options. 6 first level spell slots or 5 second level ones can be very useful.

There are many different ways to play a sorlock (I have a 10 hexblade warlock/1 shadow sorcerer - melee sorlock, I have a fighter 1/goo warlock 2/draconic sorcerer 8 sorlock who tends to use spells but has AB for when he needs direct damage, and I have 2 hexblade warlock/5 aberrant mind sorcerer who uses AB + quickened AB whenever it makes sense to do so).

Hexblade makes a lot of sense for the armor and shield proficiencies. The increase in AC is substantial over a base sorcerer - you don't need dex over 14 to max medium armor. One of my characters started with fighter 1 for role play reasons but it was also a way to obtain a better base line AC - which can be solved with hexblade. Other warlock options can also be very good, fun to play, and mechanically useful but the easiest way to obtain better defense for a sorcerer is either a level of cleric (which requires 13 wisdom) or a level of hexblade warlock.

AB gives the sorlock more single target damage than almost any other class in the game (paladins using smite on every hit will do more but it isn't as sustainable) due to using quicken to fire off two of them. In addition, hexblade's curse and the hex spell can be stacked on each bolt - though each of those needs a bonus action to get started so the action economy in reaching maximum damage can take a while. In addition, if you want to get within 10' of your target, a sorlock can add spirit shroud damage to every bolt they fire - though that is also a bonus action. (Xbow expert might be a good feat if you want to use AB at point blank range). On the other hand, using those tactics is always an available option - a sorlock can still cast other great spells but when the time comes, they can be very effective against difficult single opponents.

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Last, the Aberrant Mind sorcerer is a really good choice - more spells known but at level 6 all of the "psionic" spells can be cast without components using sorcery points equal to their level. This gives the AM sorcerer more spells and more efficient spell casting which can't be counterspelled. The psionic spells are limited to certain schools but there is a good selection of options available.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

Okay, so I'm seeing that the benefit of the sorlock is more along the lines of giving some staying power to the sorcerer, rather than solely adding extra damage. Although I assume the eldritch adept feat could still be useful, how worth it is going for a pact?

[Hael]

Okay, so I'm seeing that the benefit of the sorlock is more along the lines of giving some staying power to the sorcerer, rather than solely adding extra damage. Although I assume the eldritch adept feat could still be useful, how worth it is going for a pact?

Warlock 3 gives you 2 2nd lvl slots, which makes your font battery very powerful and allows you to regain more sorcery points than you will likely ever need. It also gives you either a very powerful early game feature (pact of the chain) or pact of the tome (phantom steed! Ritual casting)…

But the spell progression lost is harsh, so it depends when you are playing this character and how you are playing it...

Sorlocks are probably the most versatile base you can play in this game. They can do almost everything.

[tiornys]

How much you get from your pact depends on whether or not you invest an invocation into it. Getting ritual casting from Pact of the Tome requires the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation; otherwise it's just an extra 3 cantrips which is not very strong on a character that already has 6 cantrips. Making the familiar from Pact of the Chain truly strong in the early game requires Investment of the Chain Master; otherwise it's just a little stronger than a normal familiar. A level 3 Warlock only has 2 invocations, so investing into your pact means dropping one of Agonizing or Repelling Blast or taking the Eldritch Adept feat. Not quite worth the level cost, even considering the doubled efficiency of pact slot conversion.

Eldritch Adept ranges from fine in isolation to good if you're getting some strong synergies with other parts of your build. It's generally weaker than feats like Fey Touched, Telekinesis, Resilient: Con/Wis, and War Caster but it offers some unique abilities that can be hard to grab in other ways.

[thorr-kan]

But the spell progression lost is harsh, so it depends when you are playing this character and how you are playing it...

Sorlocks are probably the most versatile base you can play in this game. They can do almost everything.
I'll second the latter statement. I played a Celestial Warlock 2/Divine Soul Sorcerer 2/Magical Initiate (Bard) for an online game, and I could do it all: buff, BFC, blasting, face, divination, abjuration, healing, skill monkey. I was the party's only caster, besides a paladin.

For the former statement, that versatility came at the price of focus. I was fair to good at all of the above, but I wasn't *great* at anything. But I built the character specifically to be a JOAT, since I didn't know what my other party members would be.

[paladinn]

Just my $.02.. My favorite 5e character so far has been a sorlocadin: Vengeance paladin, Hexblade and Divine Soul. Go VP 1 level, HB 2, VP 5, then the rest DS. By L2 you are Cha-SAD. You can blast, smite, heal and fireball; and you have Lots of spell slots for smite fuel! Soo much fun