Shadowrun 3rd Edition Mage Build

[metalith]

Looking for build recommendations and assistance for an upcoming Shadowrun 3rd Ed game. I have extremely limited Shadowrun experience and less so with 3rd Edition.

I am interested in building a Mage character and while I was reading the book Magic in the Shadows, I was drawn to variations of magics outside of the standard Hermetic/Shaman in the base book.

I am a fan of Mage the Ascension and would love to try and build an Ahl-i-Batin style mage and looking for Priority recommendations and other suggestions. According to Magic in the Shadows, Arabic/Islamic magic would be hermetic in style.

[LibraryOgre]

First question is always "Full Magician or Aspected Magician" (which is what I think they are called in 3e).

So you want to be able to cast, summon, enchant, and go on astral quests, or do you mostly want to do one or the other? Being Aspected is cheaper, but it can cut off some options.

[metalith]

I'm looking to go Full Magician.

[LibraryOgre]

I'm looking to go Full Magician.

I'll have to get more in depth when I get home to my books, but I would say this starts to define your priorities, yes?

Full magician. Human or metahuman?

For myself, I've always skimped on resources with a mage. Skills and Attributes.

[Telok]

My standard questions for all SR games: What's the rest of the team characters look like? Have they played SR or cyberpunk before? Really played straight, or was it actually a splatterpunk shoot-n-scoot game? And how much heavy lifting are you willing to do to keep things sane & functional?

Magic>attributes>skills>money for most mages. Neglect not the first aid skill + kit, the ability to convincingly lie, any non-zero driving ability, a couple smoke grenades, and a shock glove. You'll potentially save a bit of trouble if you come off to security as a civilian with a non-lethal self-defense boffer.

Edit: Ah, and decide if you want to get into the summoning stuff, stick mostly to casting, have a monkey lust for astral junk, or want to jack-of-all-trades your magic.

[metalith]

i'm leaning toward Human but will be open to metahuman. I was thinking about either Dwarf or Elf if I did metahuman. We have an undecided Physical Adept and Dwarf Decker planned out already. Two other players are still looking over material and making choices. They all have more SR experience then I do.

As for magics I'm pretty open. From material, I was guessing money would be a higher priority being a hermetic style mage. I was leaning toward Jack of All Trades and maybe Summoning if so Wind or Fire Elementals when it comes to magic. Thematically I'm wanting to do be Ahl-i-Batin from Mage the Ascension which are known for subtly and manipulating things magically indirectly whenever possible.

a monkey lust for astral junk????

[Telok]

i'm leaning toward Human but will be open to metahuman. I was thinking about either Dwarf or Elf if I did metahuman. We have an undecided Physical Adept and Dwarf Decker planned out already. Two other players are still looking over material and making choices. They all have more SR experience then I do.

As for magics I'm pretty open. From material, I was guessing money would be a higher priority being a hermetic style mage. I was leaning toward Jack of All Trades and maybe Summoning if so Wind or Fire Elementals when it comes to magic. Thematically I'm wanting to do be Ahl-i-Batin from Mage the Ascension which are known for subtly and manipulating things magically indirectly whenever possible.

a monkey lust for astral junk????

Ok, cool. You aren't needed to cover team holes and you aren't looking at a team of all gun bunnies & sammies. Good. Still drop a couple points into first aid, and driving if there isn't a rigger & another person to cart you around.

Hermetic summoning is a downtime money sink that gets you spirits to call on later. A high charisma elf can work, snag a summoning focus & pull in force 7s & 5s. Strong but takes a lot of money (1000 ny per force) and prep (hours in a safe spot, library access, contacts to get supplies from, etc). But it does eat points you could put in other stats & skills. Up side is the elemental spirits are pretty strong & flexible. Check your success & drain probabilities with Anydice.com or something so you know your risk level, number of expected services, and drain k.o. limits. Try to avoid summoning force 6 spirits, make the investment for force 7s or stick with force 3-5.

Shamanic is summoning on the go, mostly. You're more limited in what spirits you can get by the locale & what they can/will do. Also they go away at next dawn/sunset and can't leave their terrain. Much cheaper (zero) and more spontaneous.

Read up on watcher spirits & wards. Both are useful, pretty easy, come free with basically any magic ability.

Astral is just as funk as the matrix, and in some of the same ways. Likely you'll be the only person in the party (unless you have another mage) who can do it. If you want to go in heavy for astral stuff you'll want to spread stats a bit more & invest in a melee weapon focus. If the GM sounds iffy about it stick with perception & watcher spirits with throwing the occasional spell at astral people. If the GM does want to deal with astral stuff expect any place with a mage on staff to be warded, possibly shielded, & have at least one watcher spirit in addition to physical & electronic intrusion counters. It can be just as critical to the run as matrix defenses & alarms, and like the decker you'll likely be running an unsupported solo mission in parallel to the physical run.

[metalith]

So what priority build order would you suggest if I do a human Hermetic mage vs an elf Hermetic mage?

[Lord Torath]

I would highly recommend a Trauma Damper. Yes, it will cost you a point of magic, but it turns light physical damage into light stun, and turns light stun into nothing. It's effectively worth 2 successes on your drain test. And you're going to be making a LOT of those. My mages also typically get a Cerebral Booster (heck, all my characters typically get the Trauma Damper and the Cerebral Booster, regardless of party role).

I also highly recommend the Good Reputation edge at 2 points (assuming you're using the Edges and Flaws from the Shadowrun Companion - p27). A two-point reduction in social target numbers is HUGE, even if you're not playing face.

As far as spell selection, I'd say Fashion (Magic in the Shadows p147) is a must - it's a nearly instant disguise spell - great for getting into and out of places. Makeover (same page) is also handy for quickly changing appearances, but is more subtle. Or not. Protestors in Hong Kong used bold geometric shapes on their faces to fool facial recognition systems, and that would probably work on people, too.

It sounds like you'll probably want some of the Control Manipulation spells (Magic in the Shadows p144-145) to fit the theme you're going for.

And for when the drek hits the spinning blades (because it will), you generally want a damaging spell that targets Body and one that targets Willpower, and I usually like to go with a non-lethal version of the Willpower one. But then, I'm more of a Mirrorshades rather than Pink Mohawk runner. Alternatively, a tazer and a shotgun. I've also found concussive grenades to be great fun. Also a spell lock (are those a thing in 3E) and the Increase Reaction spell. Or perhaps you'd prefer Decreased Reaction and Decrease Reflexes instead, for slowing down high-speed opponents. I also am a fan of the Sterilize spell for cleaning up after your team when things go down.

[metalith]

Thanks for the recommendations, are all of these spells available at character creation or something that I would need to spend Karma once I have them to spend.

[Lord Torath]

They should be available at character creation.

At character creation you will get a certain amount of Force points you can spend on your starting spells (depending on your priorities and such). As far as I remember, you can choose any spells you want, as long as you have force points to spend on them. If you start with 40 force points (a number I pulled out of the air), you can start with up to 10 spells at force 4 each, or you could have twenty spells at force 2 each, or 5 spells at force 4 and 10 at force 2, or however you want to divide them up. Some spells only need a single success to work (Sterilize, for example), so you don't really need to learn it an anything higher than Force 2. Stunbolt and powerbolt you might want at force 5 or 6.

[vasilidor]

Stun ball/bolt at deadly damage with a low force and high dice pool will drop most enemies. with a deadly stun spell you need to roll just one more success than they have willpower to guarantee dropping an enemy and keeping it at a low force makes the drain less worrisome. in example if you roll 4 successes against a guy with a 3 willpower, it does not matter what he rolls to resist the spell unless he has a friendly mage helping him out, he takes a deadly stun and passes out. as the formula for drain on stun bolt is ((1/2 force)-1) Damage level, you can make it a force 6 spell and only need to resist 2D drain. with stun ball being ((1/2 force)-1) Damage level +1, you might want to keep the damage level at serious to keep the potential drain from bleeding over into physical damage. You will want 8 dice at minimum to resist drain, this means using some of your spell pool for just that.

[metalith]

So from the advise I'm looking to do a Full Magician / Attributes / Skills / Money / Human.

With 20k starting cash, what would be the recommended purchases to start with?

[Lord Torath]

So from the advise I'm looking to do a Full Magician / Attributes / Skills / Money / Human.

With 20k starting cash, what would be the recommended purchases to start with?You'll want some armor (including a face-concealing helmet), some work clothes, a set of tres chic clothes (unless you have Fashion, in which case you can make your own from your work clothes), a month of (probably mid-life, which included a car or motorcycle in 2E) lifestyle, and some weapons. I'd recommend a shotgun, a heavy pistol, and a clutch of concussion grenades, but I don't know what firearms/thrown weapons skills you have, and presumably they would be back-ups in case you have something your spells can't take.

Once you get paid, you'll want to start saving for a hermetic library. Do you plan to focus on sorcery (spellcasting), conjuration (summoning elementals), or alchemy (creating magical focuses or focii and orichalcum)? In 2E, at least, you needed access to a library with a rating equal or better than your respective magical skill ratings, and a Magical Theory library if you wanted to learn new spells. I presume that's still unchanged in 3E. I'd also start saving toward a trauma damper. Yes, it costs a point of magic, but it is worth 2-4 dice for resisting drain

If you take the High Life (10,000 nuyen a month), your GM might increase the payout for the runs a bit, since you need to make at least 10k a month to keep your digs. But he might not. At the very least, you have an argument for refusing jobs that pay less than 10k (assuming you take one run a month, which might not be the case). Just something to think about.

[vasilidor]

An important question has not been addressed: Shaman or Hermetic.
The difference being that Shamans are cheaper overall, but have more limits on the number of spirits they can have at one time.
Shamans have to pick a totem, which get bonuses and penalties most of the time to certain things.
Hermetics can specialize in an element if they so choose, gaining a +2 to one element and a -1 to another.

[LibraryOgre]

An important question has not been addressed: Shaman or Hermetic.
The difference being that Shamans are cheaper overall, but have more limits on the number of spirits they can have at one time.
Shamans have to pick a totem, which get bonuses and penalties most of the time to certain things.
Hermetics can specialize in an element if they so choose, gaining a +2 to one element and a -1 to another.

On spirits, shamans have an advantage over Hermetics... they can summon wherever. In an office building? Summon a Hearth spirit. In a park? Summon a forest or field spirit. You can do that right now, rather than during a costly and lengthy ritual.

[vasilidor]

But, Hermetics can have more than one spirit, Limited in number to your charisma. It cost money, and you want to summon them before a run, but it can be done quite easily. YOu just want to have it done before you start the run.

[LibraryOgre]

But, Hermetics can have more than one spirit, Limited in number to your charisma. It cost money, and you want to summon them before a run, but it can be done quite easily. YOu just want to have it done before you start the run.

And they last longer than sunrise/sunset. It is definitely a trade-off.

TBH, I'd be inclined to make it so both varieties and summon both varieties. There's the spirit-of-the-moment, and there's the ritually summoned spirit that hangs around.

[metalith]

An important question has not been addressed: Shaman or Hermetic.
The difference being that Shamans are cheaper overall, but have more limits on the number of spirits they can have at one time.
Shamans have to pick a totem, which get bonuses and penalties most of the time to certain things.
Hermetic can specialize in an element if they so choose, gaining a +2 to one element and a -1 to another.

I am going Hermetic since it fits the aesthetic style of the magician I'm going for. I want to specialize but drawn equally to Wind and Fire. Drawing up Djinns made of smokeless fire.

As for the other kind of specialization is there any benefit/drawback for choosing to focus on sorcery, conjuration or alchemy. From what I see alchemy seems to be more of a downtime kind action.

[Lord Torath]

The only drawback is the opportunity cost. If you focus on one, you're de facto not focusing on the others.

Alchemy is definitely a down-time activity, but it can be highly profitable, once you get your Alchemy skill up.
Sorcery is very much an in-the-moment ability, slinging spells around.
Conjuration spans the gap, as summoning the elementals is a down-time activity, but they are there for you in-the-moment when you need them to do stuff for you (in 2E they could also help with spell research - not sure if that made it to 3rd, but it probably did).

[Satinavian]

There is also nothing wrong with focussing on one first and branching out to the others later.

But if you really start with low ressources, i would go sorcery first as hermetic summoning costs money and being specialized for alchemy won't help you in your first run.

[metalith]

With the advise given so far, requesting an opinion on attributes. I have been looking at an attribute spread of

Body 5
Quickness 4
Strength 2
Charisma 4
Intelligence 6
Willpower 6

I have been looking at reasons and particular draw backs for low strength, I'm leaning toward non-lethal physical and mystical arms like the taser and concussive grenades. With a single backup lethal spell and shotgun, like someone recommended.

[metalith]

There is also nothing wrong with focussing on one first and branching out to the others later.

But if you really start with low ressources, i would go sorcery first as hermetic summoning costs money and being specialized for alchemy won't help you in your first run.

Yea I think I'm going to focus on Sorcery to start with, then once I have the money work with Conjuration.

[LibraryOgre]

Alchemy is definitely a down-time activity, but it can be highly profitable, once you get your Alchemy skill up.


I often pick up a Talismongering specialty, just so I can make some in-the-moment harvesting decisions. Did we just kill three hellhounds? Won't take a moment to cut out their livers to sell to my contact.

[thorr-kan]

have been looking at reasons and particular draw backs for low strength, I'm leaning toward non-lethal physical and mystical arms like the taser and concussive grenades. With a single backup lethal spell and shotgun, like someone recommended.
Once upon a time, I played a Troll Physical Adept with a stun baton and flashbangs, plus just a touch of cyberware (I don't remember what). Threw the DM's plans all into a tizzy when I lead our entries and *didn't* set everything in the carefully designed flammable site on fire. Good times; wish could remember exact versions to offer any real advice.

[LibraryOgre]

Once upon a time, I played a Troll Physical Adept with a stun baton and flashbangs, plus just a touch of cyberware (I don't remember what). Threw the DM's plans all into a tizzy when I lead our entries and *didn't* set everything in the carefully designed flammable site on fire. Good times; wish could remember exact versions to offer any real advice.

I had a human physad in 3rd who specialized in stun batons and stealth. Get a surprise attack, dump all combat pool into the attack... and do so much stun damage you kill them, anyway.

[Telok]

I had a human physad in 3rd who specialized in stun batons and stealth. Get a surprise attack, dump all combat pool into the attack... and do so much stun damage you kill them, anyway.

Saw that happen by accident. Took my shock glove back from the phys-ad and told him to try barehanded so we could nab a ganger to interrogate, not punch his heart out through his back. At least I didn't have to work to convince him not to use the dikote katana on the poor suckers.

[vasilidor]

With the advise given so far, requesting an opinion on attributes. I have been looking at an attribute spread of

Body 5
Quickness 4
Strength 2
Charisma 4
Intelligence 6
Willpower 6

I have been looking at reasons and particular draw backs for low strength, I'm leaning toward non-lethal physical and mystical arms like the taser and concussive grenades. With a single backup lethal spell and shotgun, like someone recommended.

This looks decent. Your first defense at getting shot at should be not being available to be shot at. Always find cover.

[LibraryOgre]

This looks decent. Your first defense at getting shot at should be not being available to be shot at. Always find cover.

Remember: While cover is great, as a mage, you still need Line of Sight. Don't hide UNDER the desk, just behind it. ;-)

[Shockwave]

A Mage needs LoS to hit targets with spells, reflective surfaces (Mirrors) count.

Also, you can reduce the Force cost to buy a spell buy making it require a Fetish (-1), or making it Exclusive (-2) (The ONLY magical activity your doing at the time) Thus it possible to have a selection of spells at Force 2. Potentially abusable, which is why I limit it to the same as the characters Sorcery skill.