View Full Version : what does the Order know about Tsukiko?
Tsukiko is dead and Redcloak came clean with Team Evil with that. The order does not know it though, Haley is familiar with her and she was included in O'Chul's report from his time in captivity.
I haven't seen the Order mention her at all though, no wondering where she is or factoring her in their fight planning.
Do they just dismiss her because we, the audience, know she's not a concern anymore? I guess they could reckon she was left in Azure City. She didn't show up at Girard's Gate either after all.
Silly Name
2022-06-16, 10:35 AM
They probably both suspect that she died in the siege of Azure City (technically true), and also don't think of her as an active threat anymore. They simply have no reason to worry about her, so they don't talk about her.
Jason
2022-06-16, 11:07 AM
They know she didn't show up at Girard's Gate and hasn't been with Team Evil here at Kragor's Tomb either.
They probably just assume that she's back in Azure City.
Peelee
2022-06-16, 11:48 AM
They definitely think she's still in Azure City (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0887.html).
Fyraltari
2022-06-16, 12:09 PM
They probably both suspect that she died in the siege of Azure City (technically true)
Tsukiko did absolutely not die in the battle for Azure City and they've seen her alive since then, during Haley's resistant phase.
They definitely think she's still in Azure City (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0887.html).
Nice catch!
They hadn't yet met Team Evil since the "escape" but they already imagined Tsukiko as left in Azure City and not part of the group on the move.
mucat
2022-06-21, 10:07 AM
Since Tsukiko is from Azure City in the first place, it makes sense that Haley and Belkar (the only Order members who are really aware of her in the first place) would think she'd stayed to help rule over her old homeland. Girl's gotta gloat, after all, and they didn't know about her obsession with Xykon.
Since Tsukiko is from Azure City in the first place, it makes sense that Haley and Belkar (the only Order members who are really aware of her in the first place) would think she'd stayed to help rule over her old homeland. Girl's gotta gloat, after all, and they didn't know about her obsession with Xykon.
But they know she works for Xykon and is reasonably high level, so it is a bit odd that they just assumed she'd be left behind despite being potentially useful and having some personal animosity towards Haley. I'm guessing they just didn't think too hard about her and wouldn't have been surprised if she showed up at Girard's or didn't.
Metastachydium
2022-06-21, 12:59 PM
A better question is why they didn't expect her or the Monster to show up at Girard's Gate. They are both notably absent from the confrontation between the Order and Xykon in the first phase of the Pyramid Illusion.
Maybe they thought the Monster had decided to ditch Team Evil for good, perhaps after they blamed him for helping V and O-Chul escape. Optimistic, but compared to Xykon saying Roy's name out loud...
Fyraltari
2022-06-21, 03:30 PM
Maybe they thought the Monster had decided to ditch Team Evil for good, perhaps after they blamed him for helping V and O-Chul escape. Optimistic, but compared to Xykon saying Roy's name out loud...
I don't think they know how they escaped the tower. Xykon didn't hear the Monster say "escape" and he's got a pretty good hearing.
Resileaf
2022-06-22, 09:16 AM
The group has never seen the monster fight. Belkar and Haley know that he's a thing, but they have no idea of its capabilities. The illusion wouldn't know enough from their memories to fake it.
Metastachydium
2022-06-22, 10:25 AM
Belkar and Haley know that he's a thing, but they have no idea of its capabilities.
"Essentially impervious to weapon attacks, can cause earthquakes, wants to eat them (and everything else)" is hardly nothing. Heck, that all they know is this should count as a feature rather than a bug: what the Order's aware of is that he's insanely powerful with a surprisingly varied skillset, meaning that next to nothing the illusion would have him do could ruin the scenario.
A better question is why they didn't expect her or the Monster to show up at Girard's Gate. They are both notably absent from the confrontation between the Order and Xykon in the first phase of the Pyramid Illusion.
I'm afraid that her absence in the first phase of the pyramid illusion is due to out-of-universe reasons. That strip is based on the viewers believing - if just for a second - that the illusion is real before revealing that it is not. The viewers already know for a fact that Tsukiko is gone (and that Team Evil decided not to raise her), so her presence would have spoiled the effect.
There are lots of ways to justify this in universe, but it's just a justification.
Resileaf
2022-06-23, 08:19 AM
"Essentially impervious to weapon attacks, can cause earthquakes, wants to eat them (and everything else)" is hardly nothing. Heck, that all they know is this should count as a feature rather than a bug: what the Order's aware of is that he's insanely powerful with a surprisingly varied skillset, meaning that next to nothing the illusion would have him do could ruin the scenario.
But it's not enough. They don't even know what it looks like, and the illusion will have no idea how to portray that. I don't even think Haley and Belkar saw it stomp the ground to cause the earthquake. The goal of the illusion is to take as long as possible for its victims to realize they're in it to give the defenders all the time they need to dispatch the invaders. So naturally, the illusion will remove uncertainties and play on what it knows it can use. Anything with the MitD risks the Order going "It can do that? That doesn't make sense!"
Precure
2022-06-23, 09:08 AM
MitD is supposed to be joined forces with O-Chul, according to what is seen on the illusion.
Wintermoot
2022-06-23, 09:24 AM
A better question is why they didn't expect her or the Monster to show up at Girard's Gate. They are both notably absent from the confrontation between the Order and Xykon in the first phase of the Pyramid Illusion.
The illusion apparently had some sort of "consensus" quality. It probed the minds of everyone present and tried to present a single illusional reality that best met the consensus of the participants. It realized it had to segment The cat and Belkar off into a secondary illusion (because the Cat had a completely different reality and all three of the others say Belkar as being dead and Belkar didn't really care about the same things they did, but that it could keep Roy, Haley and Elan all in a single illusional reality.
To do that it needs to create a reality that best met the needs of the consensus. All three of them were satisfied by an illusion involving them triumphing over team evil. However, Roy died before knowing Tsukiko existed and Elan was on a ship out of town before she became a part of team evil. Only Haley of the three of them had any mental image of Tsukiko as a member of team evil. So the illusion pared her out in order to meet the consensus reality of all three of them.
Likewise, although all three might've expected MitD, none of them had enough data to form a reasonable approximation within the illusion. Perhaps all three had a different idea of what it was exactly. Perhaps they subconsiously didn't think they could beat it. So the illusion pared IT out of the fight as well. Because it realized that he consensus for all three involved Xykon and Redcloak and it satisfied the needs of the spell.
Metastachydium
2022-06-23, 10:24 AM
However, Roy died before knowing Tsukiko existed and Elan was on a ship out of town before she became a part of team evil. Only Haley of the three of them had any mental image of Tsukiko as a member of team evil. So the illusion pared her out in order to meet the consensus reality of all three of them.
Um, no? Roy was present when Tsukiko and the rest of Suicide Squad got recruited by Hinjo (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html), and he watched/eavesdropped on (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0510.html) her fight and banter with Haley from the clouds, not to mention that through Haley and O-Chul (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) he had a pretty accurate picture of her capabilities. (As for Elan, he never met Tsukiko, that much I'll give you, but technically, Xykon hired her (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html) immediately after killing Roy when Elan was still fighting on the outer wall.)
Further, Tsukiko did appear in the Pyramid Illusion, heck, she was even fought, just a tad bit later.
I'm afraid that her absence in the first phase of the pyramid illusion is due to out-of-universe reasons. That strip is based on the viewers believing - if just for a second - that the illusion is real before revealing that it is not. The viewers already know for a fact that Tsukiko is gone (and that Team Evil decided not to raise her), so her presence would have spoiled the effect.
There are lots of ways to justify this in universe, but it's just a justification.
Fair enough. That should be it.
Likewise, although all three might've expected MitD, none of them had enough data to form a reasonable approximation within the illusion. Perhaps all three had a different idea of what it was exactly. Perhaps they subconsiously didn't think they could beat it. So the illusion pared IT out of the fight as well. Because it realized that he consensus for all three involved Xykon and Redcloak and it satisfied the needs of the spell.
But it's not enough. They don't even know what it looks like, and the illusion will have no idea how to portray that. I don't even think Haley and Belkar saw it stomp the ground to cause the earthquake. The goal of the illusion is to take as long as possible for its victims to realize they're in it to give the defenders all the time they need to dispatch the invaders. So naturally, the illusion will remove uncertainties and play on what it knows it can use. Anything with the MitD risks the Order going "It can do that? That doesn't make sense!"
Hm. Yeah, I suppose. I don't find this completely satisfying, but it's certainly not implausible.
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