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View Full Version : DM Help Request for advice in structuring long-form campaign



HeloDragon
2022-06-16, 03:33 PM
For the first time in my life, I have a group interested in a campaign with a long meta-plot, and I'm quite afraid of messing it up from the get-go. I'd really appreciate any helpful suggestions on the campaign skeleton here, or on how to keep long campaigns from spiralling out of control!

Fiction that inspired the campaign: "Edge of Tomorrow" and "Mother of Learning."

Sketch of plot on large scale: Way back in prehistory, three nearly-indestructible primordial monsters (PMs) are destroying the world. Some good guys make a magic device that can create time loops, and trap the monsters' brains in a 1-second loop. The PCs are tricked into breaking the device by minions of the BBEG, freeing the monsters. This lets the monsters escape to cause the apocalypse, and it puts the PCs in a time loop that starts 1 week before the apocalypse. The PCs must figure out what is going on, re-trap the monsters and defeat the BBEG.

Sketch of plot on week-to-week scale: Each week, the PC group will tell me what they're planning to try during that week's session (e.g. "This week, we're going to see how long we can avoid the apocalypse. We're renting a boat and going this way on the map as fast as possible."). I'll then make a little adventure based on the plan. I also maintain notes for the campaign as a whole, mostly to make sure that we can keep the plot in mind.

Intermediate time scales - mystery boxes and time-travel mechanics: I want to have a bunch of mystery boxes for the players to open. My main concern is here: I want to make sure that the underlying mystery makes enough sense that the PCs can figure it out.

Some current ideas: Here is what I've been thinking about:

Intro (Days 1-6): PCs are scoundrels, and got into trouble with the law pre-campaign. Campaign opens as they are doing short-term indentured work in a magic jail. They meet each other and some NPCs and do some introductory adventure. Main jail officer is a jerk (which encourages PCs to try to escape) and has a memorably annoying good-morning call (which, like "I got you, babe" in Groundhog day, is a bit of a signpost for a new loop).

Start of loop (Days 7-9): PCs are contacted by Bad Guys 1 and 2, who tell them that the force field around the prison is maintained by a Crystal Maguffin. BG1&2 tell the PCs to break the CM to escape; they say they can't do it themselves because they are locked out of the item's room, but they give the PCs enormously powerful one-use items to get through to the item. They also say that breaking the item will curse the PCs, and they must meet at BG1's house in a nearby town within 48 hours to get de-cursed or die.

PCs break the item, complications make them miss the meeting, and they witness a fiery apocalypse & die. Loop starts.

Immediate change: PCs will now find that the apocalypse starts on Day 7, around the time that the PCs would meet BG1&2 (and thus earlier than in initial loop). Information the PCs don't know yet: with the loop broken, the PMs are free as of day 1. Time travel mechanics let the BBEG notice this on day 7 when the PCs touch the maguffin in the original timeline, and he wakes them up.


Actually escape from jail: Jail is a dead end (nobody believes them; they are now locked out of the item's room; BG1&2 don't ever show up). They must break out of jail to investigate outside. Cue playing with time-loop puzzles (e.g. guessing keycodes, instant-death traps, etc).

Initial investigations: PCs will find out:

-BG1 is a low-level employee of MegaBank, receiving written instructions.

-BG2 must be involved in time loop, as he doesn't meet BG1 in further loops.

-Breaking into low-security parts MegaBank (cue more time-loop puzzles), PCs find that BG1's ultimate boss is Bad Noble 1.

-(Sidequests to get BN1's attention)

- BN1 knows that the CM is keeping the three PMs asleep, and that PM1 is responsible for their city's huge fire energy source. He's been working to wake up PM1 and believes that he has an item that will let him control it (this is not true).

-BN1 can lead them to BG2.

-First time PCs meet BG2, he transfers one of their souls into a lizard; he remains a lizard for future loops until fixed. (Sidequest to fix lizard status, learn about "soul" campaign mechanism). (Aside: BG2 initially planned to lizard all of them in the first loop. This is why he recruited low-level PCs and why he insisted they meet him within 48 hours, pre-apocalypse. This doesn't work now, as the PCs are aware of the time loop and have levelled up).

- PCs watch BG2 and find he is a local representative for the PM cult. He gets instructions from a magic time-travel box in MegaBank. (Sidequest to do things like break into bank, take control of magic box, etc. The first time BG2 views the PCs as dangerous the PCs capture BG2, he will kill himself and vanish from future loops entirely.).

- PCs learn basic plot and the time-travel-box mechanics from BG2s room and/or bank vault: BG2 belongs to some cult with the same time-travel tech as the original maguffin. They used the PCs to free the PMs. The cult will always wake up the PMs on day 7, at the time the PCs get locked into the loop. The PCs may be able to store the monster bits in their new time-travel box in the bank.

Arc 1: Monster bits.

PCs travel around to capture monster hearts and store them in the bank. There are three essentially-unrelated parts here. I want to make sure that I have foreshadowing and that the PCs meet important characters.

-PM1: Fire monster that generates power for the only "advanced" city on the continent. Need to dungeon-crawl to get to the source of the fire, also convince people who know about the monster that it is OK to get rid of their main power source.

-PM2: the awesome Taralsqua (city built on a Tarrasque) setting you can find elsewhere in this forum.

-PM3: TBD.

Arc 1 (Sidequests):

-Use "soul" mechanism to bind personal magic items to time loop. I think this is necessary so the PCs don't lose all their cool stuff.

-Figure out how to use PM bits they've captured.

-Usual time-travel shenanigans about getting temporarily rich, etc.

Arc 2: Cult backstory.

When all three PM bits are contained, the apocalypse is averted and the remaining cult figures figure out something has gone horribly wrong with their plan. It turns out that (characters PCs have met) have been (doing cult stuff) all along, and now must be stopped. I'd love to figure out some reasonable candidates for this before starting! Here is my favourite so far:

The MegaBank was started by some super-wizard from another plane back at the dawn of history (sort of like Bayaz in the "First Law" trilogy). They don't care about this plane, but can take advantage of the PMs when they wake up.

If that's the plan, the PCs should be meeting bank agents in all of their earlier quests. The BBEG in charge of the bank is in another dimension and can only communicate through the time-travel boxes, so he basically has no idea of what is going on inside of the time loop (he gets a confirmation message from BG2 when the PMs are set free at the start of the campaign, but he doesn't see much else. He might be getting messages from other bank branches as the PCs pick up the monster bits, but this mostly happens too late for him to do anything before a new loop starts).

Once the apocalypse is averted, he can get the other bank branches involved and try to steal back the bits. The PCs will need to defend them and figure out who is behind the bank. The "soul" mechanism should allow some threat.

Arc 3: Wrapping up.
(TBD). Perhaps PCs find out that the BBEG is in charge of MegaBank and track him to his home plane.

Other stuff:
This is a long post, but I'm missing the following:

-I have a pretty small list of recurring bad guys connected to the metaplot. Any ideas on how to get more? How to get some who can show up repeatedly without too much PC abuse?

-The time-travel mechanics aren't fleshed out. I don't want primer-style hard sci fi. However, I want to make sure that the basic rules make sense so that the PCs can make reasonable decisions.

JLandan
2022-06-16, 03:44 PM
Sorry for the bubble burst. You have some good ideas.

Since your good guys exist, then the PMs failed back in the past. So, it is unnecessary to defeat them.

The time loop idea is interesting. The earliest example I know of is Groundhog Day.

HeloDragon
2022-06-16, 03:58 PM
Thanks for replying! The idea for the backstory and time travel mechanism is something like:

- The PMs get defeated by some people who really understand the time travel mechanism. They make a tiny loop that just affects the PMs brains, rendering them basically comatose; time outside the loop proceeds normally.

- Thousands of years pass. Original heroes die. BBEG is born, studies time travel stuff, forms bank, etc etc.

- PCs break time travel device. They accidentally make a loop that includes the whole planet/plane/whatever. BBEG is basically outside of this loop and can't respond to what happens inside the loop, beyond relaying the messages he was planning to relay in his initial pre-PC plan. MegaBank people are inside the loop and can use their magic time boxes, but they don't have a lot of initiative or time to figure out what's going on.

In case you can't tell, I'm a fan of time-travel stories, so I'll nerd out for a moment. There is a long history going back way before Groundhog Day. "All You Zombies" by Heinlein is a funny one very much focused on the mechanisms, written back in the 1950s. "The Time Machine" by Wells is the earliest one I know of that feels like science fiction, and was written in the 1800s.

J-H
2022-06-16, 04:55 PM
Time Travel is on my eventual to-do list for a D&D campaign.

This will require a lot of note-taking and record-keeping, and if their notes and your notes diverge, it could cause problems.

How are you going to handle character progression? Characters may get more talented (more special abilities) but their bodies (str con dex) and equipment (wizard spellbook, magical weapons, etc.). reset every time the time loop does. Acquiring shiny stuff is a good chunk of the progression in D&D, especially for non-casters.

Sorinth
2022-06-16, 05:27 PM
I'm not sure you really need a BBEG to set the PMs loose, simply dealing with the PMs would be fun story, a villain to defeat after they've already saved the world seems a little tacked on.

So my suggestion would be PCs break the whatever keeping the PMs comatose. In doing so they get blasted by a lot of the raw time magic and this is why they can remember things when the loop resets. It is also the point at which the time loop begins anew (You could even start the campaign right here). After breaking the power source it still takes weeks for the PMs to actually wake up and actually start destroying the world, and more weeks if not months for the PMs to actually destroy the world once they wake up. That said during the process of waking up they are still influencing the world around them, so the fire PM is causing volcanic explosion near where it slumbers, the city on the tarrasque starts suffering earthquakes, etc...

In terms of how to run a time loop, if the players "complete" something they can just narratively do it again next iteration but you'll probably want to track the resources used up so that they have to spend those same resources. But the big question is whether you want this campaign to use something like Gritty Realism, GR will make resources very valuable and it means the players would be encouraged to replay encounters after they've gained levels so that they spend less resources on them and therefore can push that LR out further and further which since they are on a clock is important. If going this route I would recommend not actually giving them their items back at the beginning of the time loop, since the time to travel has to be factored into player choices. Though something like Pact of the Blade could be a loophole allowing the player to re-summon the weapon at the start of the loop.

If you don't want GR, I'd be tempted to do the complete opposite and go Epic Heroism, it will allow the players to basically be at full power every encounter meaning you don't have to track any resources spent since it they'll regain basically everything right away anyways.

One interesting aspect of a time loop situation is you can make really tough encounters since you are free to TPK the party, but the players might replay that encounter once they've gained some levels at which point they might re-fight that once difficult enemy and crush it which can be very satisfying. For example if they get TPKed 5 times by some bad guy, finally defeat it by using a powerful one-shot item, then later on after leveling up a bunch decide to redo the encounter crush the bad guy since they are much higher level and now have that powerful one-shot item to use again.


Last but not least might as well have 4 primordials each one based on an element. Fire (Whatever you had planned), Earth (Tarrasque), Water (Maybe a Kraken??), Air (Some sort of homebrewed living storm). I would be tempted to even make the PMs beatable so rather then just putting them back to sleep they could potentially end the threat for good.

HeloDragon
2022-06-16, 05:52 PM
Thanks so much for the helpful reply! I like the idea of focusing on the PMs for a long time, and on the longer-form apocalypses. I'm a bit worried about having a very long timeline, basically for breaking-the-system reasons (e.g. players could get super-rich or whatever).

As for the rest:

- I think I'm going to have a timeline (so that travel time isn't free) but otherwise not be too realistic. I like spreadsheets, but my players don't :)

- I want to quickly introduce a "soul" mechanic that will let characters keep some sufficiently-personal items through loops. This could be e.g. a few magic items and a spellbook, but not a million gold.

- I'm definitely looking forward to some ridiculous TPKs every once in a while :).

At the risk of arguing with somebody who is helpful:

- I don't think I need the BBEG for plot reasons, but I really want to be able to put a "face" on the adventure - PMs seem too impersonal. A Bayaz-like character (with banker minions spread throughout the campaign) is somehow very tempting as being the opposite of the PMs: physically completely unimposing, but smarmy and annoying and somebody you actually want to punch. Thinking about it a bit more, I might want to keep him completely locked out for the PM part of the campaign (e.g. the time loop isn't penetrable from the outside), so you just see the people he hired making a nuisance of themselves (and get to read his correspondence).

Sorinth
2022-06-16, 06:46 PM
- I don't think I need the BBEG for plot reasons, but I really want to be able to put a "face" on the adventure - PMs seem too impersonal. A Bayaz-like character (with banker minions spread throughout the campaign) is somehow very tempting as being the opposite of the PMs: physically completely unimposing, but smarmy and annoying and somebody you actually want to punch. Thinking about it a bit more, I might want to keep him completely locked out for the PM part of the campaign (e.g. the time loop isn't penetrable from the outside), so you just see the people he hired making a nuisance of themselves (and get to read his correspondence).

As a note you can have that Bayaz-like character and his smarmy banker minions without making them the BBEG. They would work just as well as a run of the mill side villain/antagonist that antagonizes the players throughout and leave it up to them whether they keep the focus on the PM and suffering through the nuisance/annoyance or go after them.

Keravath
2022-06-17, 08:50 AM
Its a cool premise and makes for a neat quest.

However, have you considered the game overall? What levels do you want the players to be able to reach? How long do you want the campaign to be able to run?

The concern with a one and done end of the world scenario is that when the players succeed (if they succeed) what comes next? If your "campaign" will only last 10 sessions and the characters only make it to level 5 - is that enough?

My suggestion is to take a look at your world and sketch out several things that might be going on at the same time. The players could run into hints about the deeper extended plot lines as they deal with the current emergency. If the DM and players are happy and satisfied with the plot when it ends then fine - you can start another game. However, if everyone wants more, you will already have inserted backstory hints and clues into the experiences the characters have already had.

For example, during the time loop you could describe a meteor steaking across the sky, perhaps one night when they are camping just as part of the normal description of things. However, this event only happens once - in one time loop. You can figure out later how it ties into your other plots if they aren't complete yet but by inserting unexplained events into the character experience you can foreshadow other things going on without actually having the characters pursue them. When the time comes, the events ends up being explained when the characters find out about the other plots (if they ever do).

So - my suggestion when building a world and a campaign is to give some thought to what else (besides the one BBEG) might be going on. Are there more than one BBEG? Are they part of a council? Is a BBEG being manipulated by a BBBEG? :) ... you don't need much detail but having some ideas of the larger plot helps.

Also, in this particular story, why would a BBEG want an apocalypse to destroy the world? They live there too. Thanos made a great BBEG since he had a philosophy and reason to want to destroy half of life in creation - the extreme environmentalist - there are too many people destroying their environment - if you can't stop the people then eliminate half of them so that the environment can support the rest.

HeloDragon
2022-06-17, 11:57 AM
Thanks!

I love the idea of throwing in a bunch of random small mysteries as I go, and that's how I do my "usual" spaghetti plotting. This particular campaign just felt a bit intimidating, since I want to make sure the long-term plot is coherent (which isn't so important if people are just getting involved in local short-term struggles).

In the back of my head I thought that there would probably be a bunch of political stuff in the cities that are built on top of the PMs - during the time loop, the PCs are going to be doing a lot to their economies & this would have lots of repercussions when the time loop ends. I like your suggestion of having completely mysterious and inaccessible things like meteors - no need for me to know what it means when I throw it in.

As for the BBEGs motivation: in my current draft, he is something like an extraplanar arms dealer. His plan was to wake up the PMs, get his subordinates into and in charge of the time loop, and sell access to the PMs. (The subordinates are going to have some items that let them permanently eject something from the time loop. These items are intended for the PMs, but the subordinates will likely end up using them themselves). This is of course completely unredeemably evil, but I'm OK with that for a BBEG. It is fun when PCs have conflict over "subplot" goals, but conflict over "superplot" goals do not sound like as much fun to me...

Sorinth
2022-06-17, 01:14 PM
Thanks!

I love the idea of throwing in a bunch of random small mysteries as I go, and that's how I do my "usual" spaghetti plotting. This particular campaign just felt a bit intimidating, since I want to make sure the long-term plot is coherent (which isn't so important if people are just getting involved in local short-term struggles).

In the back of my head I thought that there would probably be a bunch of political stuff in the cities that are built on top of the PMs - during the time loop, the PCs are going to be doing a lot to their economies & this would have lots of repercussions when the time loop ends. I like your suggestion of having completely mysterious and inaccessible things like meteors - no need for me to know what it means when I throw it in.

As for the BBEGs motivation: in my current draft, he is something like an extraplanar arms dealer. His plan was to wake up the PMs, get his subordinates into and in charge of the time loop, and sell access to the PMs. (The subordinates are going to have some items that let them permanently eject something from the time loop. These items are intended for the PMs, but the subordinates will likely end up using them themselves). This is of course completely unredeemably evil, but I'm OK with that for a BBEG. It is fun when PCs have conflict over "subplot" goals, but conflict over "superplot" goals do not sound like as much fun to me...

I would suggest a number of standalone dungeons that are there for cool loot. As I think a typical story thread might be something like:
1) Party follows main plot line and ends up in a deadly encounter where they get beaten/run away
2) Go adventuring for XP/Loot so that they can redo the deadly encounter
3) Redo deadly encounter, win, continue along main plot line

With this in mind you probably want the main plot line encounters to be deadly but ensure that there is a weakness/vulnerability or loot somewhere that will make it much easier. For example, they face off against a golem and have to run away, they do a bit of research and find the location of a Mace of Smiting or some Adamantine Weapons to be able to deal with it. Then later on they get TPKed by a dragon and so go off in search of the Sword of Dragon Slaying, etc... An Arrow of Slaying (Fiends) would be interesting because it's a one shot, so the players might use it in an encounter but use it in a different encounter in a subsequent iteration. You may even want to customize the magic items so that they are even stronger then the standard D&D versions against the specific enemy/type, and similarly you may want to customize the monsters and give some of them vunerabilities. The first play through the party might be defeated but if they learn about the vunerability they can better prepare their spell loadout and then beat it easily the second time through.

I would also maybe at some point have the party meet an intelligent construct/spirit/homunculus of the original casters who trapped the PMs. This acts as a source of information/lore/quests for the party and most importantly is an NPC that knows about the PMs and believes the players but can't really influence events beyond providing information.

HeloDragon
2022-06-17, 01:28 PM
The single-use arrow is brilliant! Added to the outline immediately :).