serrenwood armor?

[animewatcha]

So a serrenwood bow, crossbow, and arrows/bolts is supposed to be 4k for the non-magical ghost touch. With that as a basis, what would be good pricing for serrenwood shield, light, medium, and heavy armors? For non-magical ghosttouch on them?

[Gavinfoxx]

...Why? It's one of the worst and most overpriced materials in the game, and it also isn't especially strong or durable.

[Jack_Simth]

...Why? It's one of the worst and most overpriced materials in the game, and it also isn't especially strong or durable.

Probably because Ghost Touch takes up a +3 on a shield or armor if you do it via enchanting. Or your augment crystal slot, which you might want for something else.

[Maat Mons]

Well, Astral Driftmetal (Planar Handbook, p70) does that for 12,000 gp … and no one uses it … so less than 12,000 gp.

Bear in mind, every armor material is in competition with every other armor material, since you can only have one. It’s hard to make a niche ability tempting when the alternative is a good all-around one.

[Jervis]

Just buy a wand of a spell that does what you want and pump UMD. 90% of the time that’s a better option for situational stuff like this

[Jack_Simth]

Well, Astral Driftmetal (Planar Handbook, p70) does that for 12,000 gp … and no one uses it … so less than 12,000 gp.

Bear in mind, every armor material is in competition with every other armor material, since you can only have one. It’s hard to make a niche ability tempting when the alternative is a good all-around one.

How much of that "no one uses it" is value and how much of that is obscurity? This is literally the first time I have heard of astral driftmetal.

[Biggus]

So a serrenwood bow, crossbow, and arrows/bolts is supposed to be 4k for the non-magical ghost touch. With that as a basis, what would be good pricing for serrenwood shield, light, medium, and heavy armors? For non-magical ghosttouch on them?

To be precise, it's a bow, arrows or crossbow bolts, not a crossbow (well, it is in BoED, has it been updated?).

The simplest way seem to be to look at weight. This is somewhat inconsistent (as special material weights generally are in 3.5) but it can at least tell us if we're in the right ballpark. For that 4K you get somewhere between 2lbs (shortbow) and 10lbs (non-hand crossbow bolts) of items, so the price should be somewhere between 400GP and 2,000GP per pound. I'd suggest somewhere at the lower end; at 2,000GP it'd actually work out more expensive than magical ghost touch for some items.

[Thurbane]

Well, Astral Driftmetal (Planar Handbook, p70) does that for 12,000 gp … and no one uses it … so less than 12,000 gp.

Bear in mind, every armor material is in competition with every other armor material, since you can only have one. It’s hard to make a niche ability tempting when the alternative is a good all-around one.

Strictly speaking, it would be better than Astral Driftmetal, as Druids and others forbidden from metal armor could use it.

Although I agree it's horribly overpriced.


Just buy a wand of a spell that does what you want and pump UMD. 90% of the time that’s a better option for situational stuff like this

Unless it's for a Forsaker or someone else who hates magic. Although that would be in the 10% I guess.

[Zaile]

Another option for getting ghost-touch is Riverine from Stormwrack.

It is literally water compressed by walls of force, as the spell, so it applies to incorporeal attacks.

Expensive at 9k/16k/25k for light/Med/heavy, but druid friendly and very cool conceptually.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fEN78o4DbFw/maxresdefault.jpg

[Jervis]

Another option for getting ghost-touch is Riverine from Stormwrack.

It is literally water compressed by walls of force, as the spell, so it applies to incorporeal attacks.

Expensive at 9k/16k/25k for light/Med/heavy, but druid friendly and very cool conceptually.


Riverine also has the benefit of being sunder proof, just avoid disintegrate and dispell magic. That aside, it’s great. I made some homebrew materials based on it from the positive and negative energy planes that could only be damaged by healing/inflicting spells and repaired by the opposite. Visually they were vanta black and pure white in color. Good times.

[Zanos]

I always thought Riverine was weird. "We made armor by compressing water between indestructible walls of force!" I don't think the water is doing a lot of the heavy lifting there.

[CIDE]

I always thought Riverine was weird. "We made armor by compressing water between indestructible walls of force!" I don't think the water is doing a lot of the heavy lifting there.

I think it's that the material is naturally occurring and is somehow harvested/processed. THAT is the more confusing part to me. Especially when part of the description makes it sound like the force and water are a single substance.

[Thurbane]

Riverine armor always makes me think of the jacuzzi suit from The Simpsons:

https://i.imgur.com/gW3UDMC.png

[Anthrowhale]

Serren items are made from branches that fall from a (presumably living) tree. It may be quite rare for a branch to fall which is large enough to produce armor.

[Jervis]

I always thought Riverine was weird. "We made armor by compressing water between indestructible walls of force!" I don't think the water is doing a lot of the heavy lifting there.

Hydrostatic pressure maybe? I guess it’s more a quirk of the magic used to make it/process it.


I think it's that the material is naturally occurring and is somehow harvested/processed. THAT is the more confusing part to me. Especially when part of the description makes it sound like the force and water are a single substance.

I mean the elemental planes have things like solid fire, liquid earth, and gaseous air… ok that last one makes sense but you get my point. Everything in the elemental planes is some variation of that element. This might just be solid water.


Riverine armor always makes me think of the jacuzzi suit from The Simpsons:


I like to think Riverine sloshes when you move. Also is riverine wet? I mean it’s made of water and force, can a wall of force be wet? It’s like a point where reality stops and starts again so i’m not sure you can actually get it wet.

[Beni-Kujaku]

I once read that the water was used to "anchor" the force walls. Usually, a wall of force is always flat and cannot move, but with high-pressure flowing water inside, it can be molded into a useable shape.


I like to think Riverine sloshes when you move. Also is riverine wet? I mean it’s made of water and force, can a wall of force be wet? It’s like a point where reality stops and starts again so i’m not sure you can actually get it wet.

I sure hope it's not, because if high pressure water from deep trenches starts to come out of your armor, you will be cut in half before you have a chance to realize you're wet.

[sleepyphoenixx]

How much of that "no one uses it" is value and how much of that is obscurity? This is literally the first time I have heard of astral driftmetal.

It's from A&EG iirc, so not particularly obscure. It just isn't very good for the price.

[Crake]

It's from A&EG iirc, so not particularly obscure. It just isn't very good for the price.

I mean, ghost touch on armor is at minimum 15,000gp (the base +1 is 1,000gp, then the going up to +4 is another 15,000 to reach 16,000), so 12,000 seems pretty alright.

For the people suggesting you just make it out of wood though, please note that every other wooden armor comes with an AC penalty, and serrenwood isn't mentioned as being particularly hard, so unless you're casting ironwood on it, I would imagine it'd get a similar AC penalty.

[Zanos]

Ghost touch armor isn't very good either. It's expensive and doesn't help you survive the vast majority of the time. When it is relevant it only provides a marginal defense. And it's effects are more easily provided by cheaper items, or entirely subsumed by only marginally more expensive ones. If you can afford to blow 12k on ghost touch armor you can probably blow 25k on soulfire which will just make you immune to the effects of almost all incorporeal touch attacks permanently in addition to actually being good. Or you can buy a talisman of undying fortitude. Or hell, a few potions of mage armor.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I mean, ghost touch on armor is at minimum 15,000gp (the base +1 is 1,000gp, then the going up to +4 is another 15,000 to reach 16,000), so 12,000 seems pretty alright.

For the people suggesting you just make it out of wood though, please note that every other wooden armor comes with an AC penalty, and serrenwood isn't mentioned as being particularly hard, so unless you're casting ironwood on it, I would imagine it'd get a similar AC penalty.

Not really what i meant. I should have made that more clear.
The problem isn't that astral driftmetal is too expensive, it's that ghost touch armor simply isn't very good.
Unless you make it so cheap that the expense becomes negligible (which i'm not suggesting) it simply isn't worth getting in most campaigns.

Unless i'm playing some kind of ghostbuster game i'm not buying it for 4k gp any more than i would for 12k gp. There simply are better things to get for that kind of money.

[Jack_Simth]

It's from A&EG iirc, so not particularly obscure. It just isn't very good for the price.
Few folks read every item in all their books. When you hear about special materials for armors, you're usually hearing about:

Mithral (mostly for the reduced ASF/ACP or increased Max Dex)
Adamantine (mostly for the DR)
Dragonhide (for it being Druid-friendly).
The rest of what you hear about is armor mods (Feycraft, Githcraft, Thistledown, et cetera), specific enchantments (e.g., Soulfire, Twilight), or rarer armor types (e.g., Mountain Plate).

Astral Driftmetal? Seriously, this thread is the first time I've heard it discussed. It'd actually be great for some of the characters I make - I'm fond of incorporeals, and a material that's natively ghost touch is great for such.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Few folks read every item in all their books. When you hear about special materials for armors, you're usually hearing about:

Mithral (mostly for the reduced ASF/ACP or increased Max Dex)
Adamantine (mostly for the DR)
Dragonhide (for it being Druid-friendly).
The rest of what you hear about is armor mods (Feycraft, Githcraft, Thistledown, et cetera), specific enchantments (e.g., Soulfire, Twilight), or rarer armor types (e.g., Mountain Plate).

Astral Driftmetal? Seriously, this thread is the first time I've heard it discussed. It'd actually be great for some of the characters I make - I'm fond of incorporeals, and a material that's natively ghost touch is great for such.
Fair enough, but if you refuse to read your books that's really on you. That doesn't make them obscure.
Not that i really understand the sentiment - i may skip most of the fluff unless i'm in the mood for it, but if i buy a book i at least skim over the crunch for anything interesting - but to each their own.

There's also several (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?442820-Special-Materials-Index) handbooks (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=9053) for special materials available if you won't or can't look through the books yourself.

[Crake]

Not really what i meant. I should have made that more clear.
The problem isn't that astral driftmetal is too expensive, it's that ghost touch armor simply isn't very good.
Unless you make it so cheap that the expense becomes negligible (which i'm not suggesting) it simply isn't worth getting in most campaigns.

Unless i'm playing some kind of ghostbuster game i'm not buying it for 4k gp any more than i would for 12k gp. There simply are better things to get for that kind of money.

I mean, that's a fair call, definitely seems more like the sort of thing I would give out to players as a loaned item from an NPC when they're dealing with something incorporeal, or perhaps as quest reward. I'm not exactly one for magic marts, nor strict WBL adherence though, so I don't mind giving my players a 12,000gp set of armor and not holding it against them for future loot. (I also use pathfinder's automatic bonus progression, and give out magic items much more sparingly in accordance)