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Damon_Tor
2022-06-18, 02:26 PM
I'm building a setting where good and evil take a backseat to order and chaos. Good and evil still exist, but while while in most settings a chaotic good individual is seen as preferable company to someone who is lawful evil, the opposite would be true here. I'm interested in an exploration of what that might mean for a society.

The world is inspired in part by the Judge Dredd setting: the world is divided into a few teeming urban metropolises and expansive lawless wastes: I'll post what I've written so far:

The Burning Blade
Ages ago, Trevane the primordial God of Order battled Azagog, the primordial God of Chaos. Their battle lasted millennia, stretching across uncountable planes, but ended on the world of Enseya when Trevane plunged his fiery sword through Azagog's heart even as he himself succumbed to Azagog's venom. Azagog's serpentine body became a mountain range, indistinguishable from the surrounding continent, but inside a crater on the tallest peak, Trevane's burning sword remains, a monument the the battle, rising forty feet from a pool of molten earth. The sword is itself sentient, called Urtac by the Dwarves who first found it and Torgoth by the humans who would follow. Three thousand years ago, the two peoples would go to war for control of the caldera, until the sword reached out to the leaders of both tribes, sending them dreams and visions, urging them to come together to form a compact. And come together they did, forging an alliance that would become the Order of the Burning Blade.

Pyria, the City of Fire
The blade had to be protected: if it were to be removed from the corpse of Azagog, the serpent would rise again. As it was, Azagog's venom had been seeping into the world, corrupting it, birthing monsters and driving men to madness, madmen and monsters who would become compelled to remove the blade and set the dark god free. And so the men and dwarves of the Order of the Burning Blade erected a citadel around the caldera, a fortress to protect it against these assaults, and they forged weapons and armor so they could defend it. It would be called Pyria, the first of the Pyrian City-States, and it would withstand assault after assault by monsters and mad kings, and as the world around Pyria fell to chaos and war, the people of Enseya sought refuge at the fortress. The city grew and expanded, the role of the Order shifted from defenders to peacekeepers, from a military force to a governing body.

The Order of the Burning Blade
Today the Order of the Burning Blade is divided into several suborders:

The Knights Justicar are the peacekeepers within the cities themselves. Vengeance (ie "Justice") Paladins form the leadership of this force as Adjudicators, empowered to apprehend criminals, pass sentence, and if possible, to execute the sentence themselves. The order also includes a large number of fighters, as well as warlocks: the Burning Blade itself is a valid warlock patron: use the hexblade patron, but replace the spells "Wrathful Smite" and "Cone of Cold" with "Searing Smite" and "Steel Wind Strike" respectively. Clerics, often of the Law or Forge domains, round out the Justicars in the support role.
The Knights Exemplar patrol the outer city and farmlands, and have the most direct contact with the forces of chaos and creations of Azagog as a result. This branch of the order is more likely to include Rangers in addition to the standard group dynamics. Exemplar Paladins may take the Oath of the Ancients or Oath of the Watcher in place of the Oath of Vengeance, as the threats they face are more likely to come from outside their society than from a criminal element within. Clerics embedded with Exemplars may worship a god of the "Agriculture" domain: use the "Nature Domain" to represent these clerics.
The Knights Superator are formed when a Knight Commander (usually an Exemplar) attempts to found a new City State in the chaotic wastes (see below). Knights Superator are likely to take the Oath of Conquest: The Order of the Burning Blade allows paladins to change their oath for this purpose. This is a right that is earned by great and noble deeds, under a proven leader devoted to the Order, and is not to be taken lightly. Similarly, clerics who work with Superators may devote themselves to a God of War.


The Pyrean City States
327 years After the Compact, the Order had seized an enemy stronghold seven leagues from Pyria itself, the fortress of Vaeloran, an elven king driven to chaotic ambitions by the Venom. Brogdan Dom, the Knight Commander who led the assault on Vaeloran's keep, named himself Knight Regent of a new City State, Dein, arguing that the Order could not exercise control over the elves from Pyria. The Order was split on the issue. No law allowed or prohibited such an action, and so a Gathering was called, each side arguing their case atop the burning blade, but no consensus could be reached until Brogdan and his chief critic Jasco Rex met in a ritual trial by combat. When Jasco was forced into the caldera, the Blade had spoken, and so the practice of founding new City States under the rule of the Order was established by precedent then by law. Brogdan returned to Dein, took Vaeloran's daughter as his wife, and forged the second Pyrean State. When a Knight Exemplar had earned the right to attempt to found a new City State, he took a new vow, a Vow of Conquest, and would become a Knight Superator until such time as he had conquered or built a stronghold from which he could rule as Knight Regent.

More would follow over the millennia; countless Knights Superator would ride into the wastes and perish attempting to bring order to chaos. Seventeen times a Knight Superator would claim for himself regency, but more often than not those regencies would quickly fall to the forces of disorder. Today six Pyrean states remain: Pyrea, Dein, Starhold, Torlund, Banebridge, and Stormvale. Each consists of a Citadel, a walled inner city, an outer city, and vast farmlands which feeds the teeming populace. Each is ruled by a Knight Regent, who is bound by the Pyrean Codex, the book of laws which governs the conduct of their order. The Codex is massive: in truth no single book can hold it, nor can one mind know it all, and in each Citadel a scriptorum houses a copy of the codex, three hundred and sixteen volumes of it, tended to by the Lexodians, or Law Keepers, an order of monks trained to navigate the Codex and advise the Knights on its commandments.

The Codex
Every aspect of the Order's operation is strictly regulated by volumes upon volumes of edicts and rules collectively called The Codex. The Order meets annually at the caldera in Pyria, which has been transformed over the centuries into a massive assembly hall, with a speaker taking a position atop the Burning Blade itself. Every Knight has a place in this assembly, and while in theory every Knight has his own vote, the vote of each Knight is cast on his behalf by his Regent. A change to the Codex requires a consensus, which in practice means each of the six Regents agrees to the change. When a law is unclear, if two or more Regents disagree in its meaning, a consensus must be reached to change it. If consensus cannot be reached, trial by combat is used to settle the matter. Tomes containing the old texts are cast into the caldera, while the Law Keepers create new tomes, a process hastened by ritual magic.

Enseyans, Humans, and Elves
The Order of the Burning Blade and the city-states they control are made up chiefly of Enseyans, accounting for around 60% of the general population and 90% of the Order itself. Enseyans would have been called "Half-Elves" millennia ago, but the human and elvish populations have blended together to the point where there are no more pureblooded humans or elves remaining anywhere inside the cities themselves. The combination of mannish and elfin traits contribute to the rapid and ceaseless growth of the Pyrean states; inheriting long lifespans from their elvish ancestors and high fertility from the humans, the densely populated inner cities of the Pyrean states are difficult to govern. Outside the cities some scattered tribes of pure-blooded elves and men remain, but they are few in number.

Dwarves
20% of the population and 10% of the Order, Dwarves along with Men were its founders, and the first to discover Trevane's sword. Because of the influence of the Dwarves, the Pyrean states are built as deep as they are tall, with catacombs stretching into the earth just as far at the towers reach into the sky. A tiny fraction of the population are Muls, a cross between Enseyans and Dwarves, but difficulties with childbirth make them a rarity.

Halflings
A minority within the walls of the inner cities, Halflings become more common in the outer cities and then even moreso in the rural farmlands surrounding them, making up about 10% of the population in total. There are no explicit rules against a Halfling joining the Order, but the bylaws governing recruitment include physical demands which, in effect, ban their participation in the Order and thus their participation in politics. In the cities, Halflings are over-represented in crime statistics, a fact which hardliners within the Order use to justify their defacto exclusion. Others argue their disenfranchisement from the governing process leads to their elevated crime rate, but so far there's no significant momentum for any change to the requirements that exclude them.

Orcs and Goblins
Beyond the control of the Order, Orcs and Goblins control most of Enseya's chaotic wilds. Some Pyrean historians believe that Orcs are Enseyans, or perhaps ancestral Humans, tainted by the venom of Azagog over many generations, and that Goblins are Halflings corrupted in the same way. Orcs and Goblins, in their oral traditions, teach that the opposite is true, that Enseyans and Halflings are Orcs and Goblins who were enslaved by the Sword. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between.

Others
Scattered across Enseya are peoples of all shapes and sizes. Some, like the Yuan-Ti and Gorgons, may be deliberate creations of whatever deific malevolence lies within the husk of Azagog. Other beast-folk the result of the corruption of its venom seeping into the world, spreading change and chaos, pressing forward the natural progression of life. Others may have nothing to do with the ancient war between the two primal Gods, but all will eventually have to choose a side.

Warlocks are common in the Pyrean states: pacts with lawful entities, including Devils, are not frowned upon. As a consequence, an industry of legal scholars exists to help draft contracts between individuals seeking to become a warlock and their would-be patrons, and to settle disputes between patrons and their warlocks. As a consequence, warlocks from the Pyrean states tend to have much less lopsided pacts, with fair terms and clear duties and rights. As noted above, the Burning Blade is itself a valid Warlock Patron. Pacts with chaotic entities are usually illegal (See "Neutralization" below)

Agrimagi are practitioners of druidic magic who long ago bent the knee to the Order, using their magic to help grow food for the teeming cities. Conflict between the Agrimagi and the inherently chaotic origins of their discipline and the Order of the Burning blade is always simmering, but the agrimagi require the protection of the Exemplars from the aberrant horrors of the wastes, while the States desperately need the Agrimagi magic to allow the farms to produce enough food for the densely populated cities. A peace has developed from this mutual need, and the farms remain as the blurry green line of nature separating order and chaos. Woodswitch is a derogatory term for a user of druidic magic who is not an agrimagi. (See "Neutralization" below)

Most forms of Sorcery, especially Wild Magic sorcery, are believed to be the result of Azagog's corruption, and face intense persecution by the Order. By contrast, sorcerers with magic stemming from orderly sources of power (such as Clockwork Soul sorcerers, or Dragon Sorcerers descended from a typically Lawful species of dragon) face little stigma, and instead enjoy a great deal of privilege within Pyrean society. In any case, Sorcerers are required to register with the Order. Those who will not, or cannot, operate their magic lawfully are neutralized (See "Neutralization" below) or must accept exile. This includes children.

Wizards and Artificers thrive in the States, as the long devotion to learning their trades melds well with the ordered culture. Their magic is still highly regulated, but unlike sorcerers, a wizard or artificer has time to learn how to use magic within the limits of the law as they learn the trade, and all accredited schools for wizardry or artifice include learning the legal restrictions on their magic as a core part of the curriculum.

Corpse Handlers are wizards or sometimes clerics who are licensed and regulated to practice necromancy by the States. Necromancy is a common solution when a citizen dies in debt: along with their other possessions, their body is considered a valuable asset which can be sold by their estate to settle such issues. Corpse handlers will buy these bodies and employ them as manual labor within the cities. Whether or not necromancy is "evil" isn't considered relevant. Unlicensed necromancy and corpse-theft are still crimes, however. (See "Neutralization" below)

Clerics of lawful Gods are well treated, Clerics neutral to law/order are tolerated, while the worship of chaotic gods is banned (See "Neutralization" below). The Order of the Burning Blade includes among its ranks clerics of the Gods Yur and Jorman, the Gods of Forge and Law respectively. Long ago the two Gods had been the godheads of the Dwarven and Human pantheons, but since the pact between the two people was formed they were both recognized as the "twin" Sons of Trevane, born simultaneously to different wives. Yur brings order from the chaos of the natural world, forming stone and ore and wood and other raw goods into buildings, tools, and weapons, while Jorman brings order from the chaos of the mind, forming a disparate mass of individuals into a thriving civilization with the power of the law. Both are theoretically of equal status, though Jorman remains the more popular God among the Enseyan majority. (TODO: Fill out the rest of the pantheon)

Neutralization is a sentence passed down to criminal spellcasters (at least those who are not otherwise subject to execution). The Adjudicator will remove a section of the spellcaster's tongue and several tendons in their wrists and cauterize them using a Neutralization Kit, preventing them from casting spells which have either a verbal or somatic component. Neutralization takes about one minute to perform with a DC 10 Medicine check on a willing or restrained individual. Failure in this test causes the neutralized person extreme pain and the loss of 1d4 hitpoints, and the adjudicator must make the attempt again to complete the procedure. Adjudicators are disciplined for repeated botched neutralizations resulting in death. Neutralized persons speak with a recognizable defect and lack grip strength and manual dexterity. Because the tissue is removed and cauterized, only magic which can regrow limbs (such as the spell Regenerate) can restore spellcasting ability to neutralized persons, and only high-level law clerics within the Order are allowed to perform this procedure pending appeal. Potions of Regeneration are tightly regulated for this reason.

thefantodayhtml
2022-06-20, 05:44 PM
I'm building a setting where good and evil take a backseat to order and chaos.
To start with as someone who thinks straight up 'good' vs 'evil' conflicts are a bit overdone, I think the basic premise here is really great!

Good and evil still exist, but while while in most settings a chaotic good individual is seen as preferable company to someone who is lawful evil, the opposite would be true here.
This might be true of a lawful good individual, but that doesn't mean it would be true as a rule.

Damon_Tor
2022-06-20, 06:52 PM
This might be true of a lawful good individual, but that doesn't mean it would be true as a rule.

I guess I kind of mean it more in a meta sense. I feel like about every D&D party includes someone Chaotic Good, but Lawful Evil PCs are rather rare. Culturally we discourage selfishness (ie, "evil") more than lawlessness (ie "chaos"), and that bleeds over into how we think about our fiction as well. Judge Dredd is a great example of a world that compromises good for order, with a lawful/lawful protagonist, that still manages to tell great stories. That's sort of what I'm going for.

thefantodayhtml
2022-06-24, 01:10 AM
Culturally we discourage selfishness (ie, "evil") more than lawlessness (ie "chaos"), and that bleeds over into how we think about our fiction as well.
I mean yeah there's a reason people tend to like Robin Hood (or at least the idealized version of Robin Hood), while disliking the transatlantic slave trade.

Judge Dredd is a great example of a world that compromises good for order, with a lawful/lawful protagonist, that still manages to tell great stories.
Maybe, but playing in the world Judge Dredd lives in is generally going to a lot more appealing to players than playing as Judge Dredd, since most of the appeal of role-playing comes in being able to choose the sort of person your character is and how they react to the world around them.

brian 333
2022-06-24, 07:05 AM
Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone stories were based on this concept, and it was the basis for D&D's alignment system. In this his setting, a hero could go beyond the edge of the world and create order out of chaos, thus extending the world while chaos constantly nibbled at the edges of order.

Stormbringer is a good place to begin.

Inevitability
2022-06-24, 09:36 AM
Order vs chaos is a great concept to start a campaign on! I like what you've done with halflings, it's a neat way to unify the two chief tropes that they get tied to (pastoral villagers and sneaky rogues). The idea of having half-elves be the default rather than humans is also really clever. Orcs and goblins are a bit generic, but nothing has to be 100% original.


That said, I think a common failure for order vs chaos is to successfully characterize a LG/LE alliance but fail to explain the common ground that CG and CE would have. Instead of "LG heroes vs CE monsters", you get "LG heroes and LE tyrants vs CE monsters or CG rebels". WotC definitely falls into this trap themselves, on the odd occasion they try to do something law/chaos focused, so I don't really blame the world for taking this shape, but it might be fun to fix this with the other races you could include.

I think Gnomes (adjusted slightly to lean CG rather than NG) and Kobolds would be interesting races to focus on, as they let you emphasize how Lawful =/= Good and Chaos =/= Evil in this campaign. The ancient rivalry between them further lets you cast them as thematic opposites.

So what are gnomes and kobolds' niches?

Forest gnomes are specialized in illusion and misdirection. They can talk with small beasts. They're small, and they can see in utter darkness (removing their need for illumination). They're a nocturnal people (but capable of functioning during the day), who eke out a living in the wastelands, with a survival strategy based on being beneath the notice of stronger demihumans or threatening monsters.

Their preferred foods (potatoes, root vegetables) grow on unremarkable plants, are labor-intensive to harvest, and are almost impossible to destroy without significant effort, so gnomes live a nomadic agricultural lifestyle where they can prepare a field, move on, and return to harvest a portion several months later, gathering from wild plants and other fields in the meantime (gnomes tend to vegetarian lifestyles, for the simple reason that they're incapable of bringing down most large beasts and dislike eating those small animals they can speak with). Their nomadic lifestyle and subtle magic makes gnomes remarkably egalitarian: it's hard to establish a position of power if you can't own more than you can carry (which, for gnomes, is even less than normal), anything you do own can be effortlessly stolen, and anyone who gets too full of themselves becomes the target of humiliating pranks. The lack of reliance on large-scale hunting or farming operations means that gnomish bands can be incredibly small in size, further reducing the potential for hierarchy and improving their ability to go unnoticed.

Gnomes actually have a level of respect for goblins (believing that anyone who can survive without strength or magic must be both very cunning and very dangerous), which is on occasion reciprocated (goblins have a hard time fitting gnomes in their pecking order, viewing them as both incapable of dominating others yet impossible to dominate). On occasion, the two might team up to take down common enemies, and goblin rogues covered by gnomish illusions are a pairing which several city-states have learned to fear.

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Rock gnomes went down a different path a long time ago: their ancestors infiltrated Pyria and now form a small hidden society within its walls. Gnomes fit in spaces that no other inhabitants of Pyria (except for some halflings) can access. They're hardy, and their dietary requirements are relatively meagre, so they can survive on low-quality fare, further helping them keep a low presence. Sewer pipes, long-abandoned dwarvish catacombs, boarded-up buildings and thieves' dens all support small but significant populations of rock gnomes, and rumor has it there's even rock gnome-managed farms in dank corners of the undercity, where giant beetles, blind cave fish and mushrooms grow plump on scavenged trash.

Gnomes get by through thievery, odd criminal jobs, and their highly valued craftsmanship. A surprising amount of the mechanical wonders sold by merchants (ironically touted as a symbol of regularity and order) were crafted in some dark backroom by a rock gnome. Rock gnomes deliver excellent work, won't rat you out to the authorities, and work for cheap, making their (locksmithing, jewelry, alchemy, delivery) services highly valued by anyone who'd like to keep things under wraps. Such things aren't without risk, though: more than one employer has woken up to find their gnome-made lock effortlessly picked, their valuables plundered, and the diminutive perpetrator utterly beyond their reach.

It should be noted that rock gnomes have no desire to join 'proper' Pyrian society: to them, being registered, taxed, and monitored are horrors far greater than going hungry or having to fear arrest each day. Indeed, gnomes often find even their own society far too stifling still, and the city can count a fair share of hermits, hidden in some unseen cranny, sneaking out only to obtain food or new components for their masterpieces.

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Alright, I ended up writing a lot more about gnomes here than I intended, so I'll cut the post short here. As for kobolds, you can play them similarly to the default D&D interpretation: highly social, ruthlessly practical, dragon-worshipping wretches. If you want to drive the lawful angle home, downplay their cowardice and go all in on the 'we have reserves' mindset. An interesting question to explore is the relationship of kobolds to chaotic dragons: I'm personally partial to the image of a small horde of kobolds running off with some red dragon's eggs, excitedly yelling about how they will 'rise those right'.

LibraryOgre
2022-06-24, 09:47 AM
I played a bit with a similar game, but started from a core of Dragonlance... then flipped the continent 90*, representing the change from a Good v. Evil view to a Law v. Chaos view.

I didn't go far with it; got bored, really; but it could have some legs. My problem was always "Why is this the more compelling issue... how things are done instead of what is done?"